Open Thread

I’ll be at my Dad’s for the next couple of days with no WiFi, so I’m not sure how much I’ll be able to post.

Have fun in comments. Whenever I leave you guys alone, you get some amazing stuff going!

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65 Responses to Open Thread

  1. darkcycle says:

    Enjoy your Dad, Pete. For god’s sake don’t let him drag you to “The Patio” restaurant when you’re there like my G-ma does me when I’m in Quimpy. It’s bad. Really, really bad.

  2. skootercat says:

    I hope you all remember Mollie Fry and Dale Schafer, a husband and wife recently incarcerated in federal prison for 5 years regarding Prop 215. Their story is at The children and grandchildren they left behind are making event appearances and selling “Free Doc Fry” t-shirts to support their activism and family. It is my hope you all will take a look at their web page, buy a t-shirt, and feel free to send them your letters of support.

  3. thelbert says:

    i find it ironic that roger clemons is prosecuted for lying to congress when our blood purity laws are based on lies told to congress. clemons may have harmed gamblers, but why would the land of the free care? exactly who is congress protecting here? he should say he lied to protect the children. like the secret narcotics police do when they lie their asses off.

  4. vickyvampire says:

    I totally agree with you thelbert, everything you say so true.

  5. palemalemarcher says:

    What of the supreme court. Last week they ruled that generic drug makers don’t have to inform the public if the product they manufacture under another name causes deleterious side effects or death. It seems to me that they’re capable of nullifying the Frank Paul bill too! See the link:

  6. Just Legalize It says:

    To Everyone:

    I am going to get a new tattoo this weekend and I really want to get the THC molecule. The problem that I am having is that there are so many variations available and I am not sure which one is the most correct, most up to date one. I was hoping that the very knowledgeable people who visit everyday, as I do, will have the answer I am looking for.

    To Pete and all those who comment, you all do an excellent job at spreading the need to know stories and crucial information regarding the senseless drug war. I will definitely be contributing to this site. I also promise to not get Pete in any shit with his web host. ;o)

    • Jake says:

      Erowid is most likely to have a correct representation

    • Duncan20903 says:

      American’s for Safe Access use it for their logo:

    • Just Legalize It says:

      I probably should have been more specific in my request. My apologies. I am looking for the image like the one at the top of this page:

      The problem I am having is that there are many different variations and since a tattoo is pretty much permanent, I would like to get the most accurate one possible now.

      I was thinking about a pot leaf but that is too obvious in my opinion. I want something like this because it is subtle and only those educated in marijuana will understand it and know what it is.

      BTW, alcoholism runs in both sides of my family and I was getting drunk everyday until I tried marijuana at age 22. It helped but learning about marijuana changed my life. All drugs should be legalized! If you commit a crime while on a drug, you should be punished… but being on a drug should not be a crime.

      • Eridani says:

        What do you mean be “variations?” The THC molecule is the THC molecule. Change one part of its structure, and it will not longer be Delta-9 THC. Now, it can be drawn in several different ways, but the formula C(21)H(30)O(2) does not change. So if you get the Wikipedia image as a tattoo, it will be accurate. Hope that helps.

  7. Servetus says:

    Obama responds to tweet about ending the drug war:

    • yang says:

      “The more we can reduce money’s impact on Washington, the better off we’re gonna be”, what?

  8. Tim says:

    Just noticed that the Cannabis Culture Magazine website is redirecting to FireDogLake. What’s up with that?

  9. Tim says:

    Oddly, proxies are able to pull up the Cannabis Culture site without problems. Very interesting. Will be keeping an eye on this.

  10. allan says:

    … hmmm, I wonder… did Pete leave any beers in the fridge?

  11. flags don't wave in a vacuum says:

    “The whole fabric of society will go to wrack if we really lay hands of reform on our rotten institutions. From top to bottom the whole system is a fraud, all of us know it, laborers and capitalists alike, and all of us are consenting parties to it.” — Henry Adams, American historian, 1838–1918

  12. Tim says:

    CC seems to be accessible again, without proxies. That was rather strange. I do know they have had problems with hackers in the past, but a redirect to FDL seems out of character with the antisec crowd.

  13. Asher says:

    -Union Workers Replaced With Prison Labor Under Scott Walker’s Collective Bargaining Law-
    Prisoners are now taking up jobs that used to be held by unionized workers in some parts of the state.
    This is slave labor. With minorities being over 50% of the prison population.

    • Duncan20903 says:

      Involuntary servitude for prisoners is specifically allowed by the 13th Amendment.

  14. pfroehlich2004 says:

    Mark Kleiman and John McWhorter discussing drug policy at Comments have been disabled on that site but you can throw your two cents in here:

    • Duncan20903 says:

      You have a really hard row to hoe to convince me that they do that. I mean convince me that they think.

  15. Jon Doe says:

    But watching that video makes it clear that what we need is not tougher sentencing, but reformed prisons. A prisoner is not rehabilitated during his time behind bars, he is taught to be more violent.

  16. Duncan20903 says:

    Once again reality intrudes on the Know Nothing’s world in Montana. Teen use of cannabis in Montana is down over the last few years.

    The problem with using hysterical rhetoric as a basis for public policy is that it’s so often wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Despite medical marijuana, pot use slips among Montana teens

  17. Servetus says:

    Funding for California’s drug war cut by $71-million. Yea, Jerry Brown!

    • Duncan20903 says:

      Man California’s budget really must be on frickin’ life support. The combination of “Jerry Brown” and “lowers government spending” gives me cognitive dissonance.

      • darkcycle says:

        Jerry Brown would grow a pencil mustache and change his name to Mussolini if he though it would get him where he wants to be.

      • Duncan20903 says:

        No doubt that Mr. Brown is a two bit political whore DC, but there still are things more likely than others even for a master waffler like Jerry Brown.

        I wish I had a pencil-thin mustache,
        the “Boston Blackie” kind,
        or a two-toned Ricky Ricardo jacket,
        and an autographed picture of Andy Divine.
        And Rama of the jungle was everyone’s Bawana,
        but only jazz musicians were smokin’ marijuana.
        Yeah, I wish I had a pencil-thin mustache,
        then I could solve some mysteries too.

        — Jimmy Buffett

  18. jimmyd says:

    While Obama tweets, Kent Wa. Police raid four Mmj dispensaries, seizing product, phones and computers, the War on Drugs continues. See KIRO News, 7.6.11

  19. dt says:

    My home state of Pennsylvania just expanded its Schedule I to include Salvia divinorum, which I occasionally enjoy. The bill passed through the legislature with absolutely no opposition. Luckily I knew the ban was coming and stocked up a few months ago.

    The local news scare stories focused on the synthetic cannabinoids and stimulants (“bath salts”) that were available in some stores. But Salvia and a list of Alexander Shulgin-created psychedelic phenethylamines also made it into the bill. Salvia was targeted because of this sordid affair. But how did the psychedelic phenethylamines make it into their crosshairs? Why not add a list of psychedelic tryptamines? (Don’t get any ideas if you’re reading this, assholes.) The machinations of prohibition remain mysterious and arbitrary.

    How do we stop this cycle of fear and diminished freedom?

    Here is the Pennsylvania bill if anyone is interested:

    • Duncan20903 says:

      I’ve never been able to grasp the interest in using salvia. Watching a twenty something smoke salvia and lose a footrace to a stoned septuagenarian completely shut down any interest in me giving it a try.
      (say what? Viacom made Youtube take down my preferred version of this video for violating their ©? You’ve got to be kidding me. Wow.)

      Still, it’s putting the cart before the horse to put it into schedule I. Now if there ends up any indication that there are beneficial medicinal utility in the plant There’s going to be a huge brouhaha and the advancement of human medicine delayed because they didn’t stop to think that there isn’t an FDA approved medicine or device which had no known medical use before they figured out that it did. Not to mention medicinal substances which were abandoned by the medical community and then re-discovered as legitimate medicine like Thalidomide and leeches.

      If you enjoy it, more power too you. I sure wouldn’t have the idea of arresting you because you like something I don’t pop into my head.

    • dt says:

      lol, great video. Yeah… my friends who tried it mostly hated it. I know maybe one other person who enjoys it. I haven’t used it in months, but I see no reason why I shouldn’t be free to do so again. Picture a Native American vision quest and you get a good idea of what it’s like.

      • dt says:

        I guess it’s an experience that’s pretty far outside the context of the normal culture. Kind of reminds me of Pete’s play that he posted about a few days back. Not too hard to imagine religious nutjobs with power trying to crack down on it because of the nudity. People have to fight for the right to have experiences outside the mainstream.

    • darkcycle says:

      Sensible Washington lacked the money to pay signiture gatherers. Unfortunately that was our best hope here in Wa. But don’t worry….they’ll be back!

    • Duncan20903 says:

      …but ever so predictable. There seems to be a significant cohort of cannabinoidians who refuse to accept that with at best 10% of actual voters, and even then only that percentage when the moon and stars are aligned in geometric synchronicity with Halley’s Comet*, that there are going to have to be some realistic compromises made with voters who have been fed a line of propaganda against the idea since they were little more than a dirty thought in one of their dad’s heads. Demanding all or nothing is guaranteed to deliver nothing. We simply do not have the numbers to demand anything. Unfettered re-legalization just isn’t going to happen in our lifetime barring the second coming of Cheezus Kryste with a bongpipe in his hand.


      • damn duncan, that sounds like a prediction along the lines of “a hummingbird will fly to the moon with the Washington monument tied to its tail … ” ;^)

      • dt says:

        New Approach Washington looks like it would turn the state stores into cannabis distributors prosecutable under the federal CSA. Sensible Washington looks like it would give the feds a much harder time by forcing them to prosecute each individual store that would pop up, which really would strain their precious “resources.” You sure voters really care about bogus policies like selling things in state stores? That ruins my picture of Washington state as a haven compared to the east coast where they put conservatism in the water supply. They just need $$$ to get those signatures. Tell your dealer to start donating.

        Can you imagine how great the market and the product differentiation would be if the state doesn’t have its hands in it? Take a look at this – Unlike Salvia, I bet every human being on the planet could find something on that menu they like.

      • Duncan20903 says:

        The difference brian, is that about 80% of the population enjoys drinking alcohol. Even Senator Sheppard should have been aware of that.

        Totally unfettered legalization, including say, pot machines in elementary school lobbies possible? OK, that’s extreme, how about unfettered re-legalization without any minimum age for purchase?

        I’m really not sure how you can read the nonsense and hatred that the Know Nothings regurgitate and not believe there’s going to have to be reasonable compromise worked out. Fill me in on the process? I mean I do agree that the law should be the way it should be but I’m not noticing very many working examples of that. I’d certainly love it if you could prove me wrong on this opinion.

        Oh, then there was the fact that when the hummingbird landed on Mars the only drinking alcohol he could buy to celebrate his feat was 3.2% beer, and not even that in a lot of jurisdictions. Did you know that Mississippi didn’t end it’s State level prohibition until 1966? Even drinking alcohol with 80% of the people on board had to work out some compromises.

        DT I don’t recall saying that I thought State store sales would be the way to go. I said there was going to have to be reasonable compromise. I think State stores are also DOA. A better example of compromises I think should be considered is a age floor of 21, and the ability for localities to “opt out”, just like the 21st did.

      • dt says:

        Well Sensible Washington could pass its referendum deleting the existing pot laws, then the legislature could enact an age floor and labeling requirements, and then local jurisdictions would be free to pass their own prohibition ordinances. This doesn’t need to be too complicated.

      • darkcycle says:

        Duncan, if it makes the ballot in Washington, it’ll pass. Seventy percent of Western Wa. residents and 43% of eastern residents indicate they want to legalize and regulate. That adds up to a pass no matter how ya cut it up. I think that the Left Coast States have the numbers to do it, it’s just a matter of which one. I was pulling for Washington for obvious reasons…..

      • Actually, Duncan, we do have the numbers. In the 2008 presidential election there were roughly 210 million eligible voters, of which some 130 million voted, leaving close to 80 million who didn’t. Of that group, the overwhelming majority were under the age of 38; the demographic most likely to get high, primarily with cannabis.

        The conventional political wisdom holds that these voters are uninformed and apathetic, and politicians see them as useful (non-voting) idiots, allowing them to pander to those who give them money. But I believe they are informed enough to see that the game is rigged and still believe voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil. I also believe should an actual presidential candidate (and Ron Paul ain’t gonna be one) propose policies that pander directly and unashamedly to those roughly 80 million eligible voters, and significant numbers of them vote, the impact on the election will be dramatic (and likely the highest voter turnout in history).

        All the stars would have to be aligned for that candidate to win the White House, of course, but he/shewould create the most fertile ground yet for real drug policy reform. Such a candidate has not surfaced, ever, but that doesn’t mean it won’t/can’t happen – especially given the era of social media.

  20. palemalemarcher says:

    Its remarkable how those who are on the SWAT teams are losing collective bargaining. Gentlemen, you’ve been had. And outsourcing to convict labor in Florida, don’t vote for it!

    • Duncan20903 says:

      Wow, they’ve started a “SWAT team” for white collar criminals. This country is just too dedicated to violent imagery.

      Assume the position Mr. Madoff.

      Michigan trains municipal finance SWAT teams
      I recall seeing a headline in the local throwaway a few years back with a story about raking leaves in the yard, the headline was “local residents declare war on Fall”. Yeah buddy, bring out the leaf blower bazooka and the genetically modified mulching organisms, we’re being invaded by tree leaves. Got landmines?

  21. Duncan20903 says:

    Wow, this is the 3rd plea deal that a judge has refused to honor in less than a week. I think I’ve only heard of 3 such instances in the last couple of years.

    Wow, let’s quit accepting plea deals Judgie Wudgie. How’s your docket going to look when that happens?

    • Eridani says:

      The Inquisitor burned the witch, and most of the commenters were in sadistic glee of the man’s sentence. I think I will avoid Great Falls for the rest of my life, and probably all of Montana as well.

  22. vickyvampire says:

    Watched Dr.Oz this morning,subject was about the dangers of OTC DRUGS that are responsible for 200,000 injuries and some deaths each year and yet Marijuana continues to be demonized,and illegal.

    Also listened to yet another show on radio about more and more folks being beaten by cops hardly an provocation, story goes maybe you’ve heard it there’s so many now guy come home find step son had hung himself in garage suicide calls cops they come,he is very distraught police orders him to sit down he refuses talks back a little,then cops more than one proceed to beat him up he was bruised up neighbors saw this.

    Comments from callers that are police are just gangs attacking, a grieving father who is distraught, beyond outrageous.

    Then I get on web and read that a woman plants a vegetable garden in her front yard breaking some regulation and could spend up to 93 days in jail for that.WTF.

    Oh and I think I’ve. lost track of all the dispensary raids lately seems like there is one everyday.

    Then my kids a 19 year old boy and 22 year girl are like no more shuttle program,will they replace it. they where just sad to see us can not even get going with space program.
    I’m thinking if they had not wasted all that money prosecuting and jailing and task force cost destroying wonderful plants. We could have spent some of that money on a better space program and vision,maybe.

    Have a nice weekend folks the American Police state marches on.

    • Duncan20903 says:

      Take 250 mg of diphenhydramine* and give me a call when you finally wake up Monday morning. But be careful, that stuff can make you hallucinate in a way a fan of LSD can’t even begin to imagine. No driving!

      *Sominex©, Benadryl©

  23. CptnCaveman says:

    I read that article on cracked not too long ago. I understand that it was written for the purposes of humor, but the author genuinely does not seem to grasp the fundamentals of logic and reason. One thing about the article that did get me is the photos. If the legalization movement in this country is ever gonna succeed, we need to remove the youth culture/High Times crowd from the equation. America as a whole needs to learn that the dreadlocked, weed leaf necklace wearing Wookie no more represents the average marijuana user than the town drunk from an old Western movie represents the average alcohol user.

    • dt says:

      His logic is good enough to make his arguments seem valid to some people. His real problem is his underlying theory about the proper role of government in the lives of individuals, and his theory about the nature of drugs and addiction. Anybody who cares should know how to respond to his points, which are responses to legalization arguments. For example why does it matter that weed is less harmful that booze and cigarettes? Why should we go from two “bad” things to three “bad” things?

      He brings up another strain of prohibition-related anxiety when he talks about the fact that he and his brother have self-control problems related to drugs. He seems to think that he needs the state to help control himself. I don’t really know how to respond to that – maybe something like “by the time you’re 21 you should be responsible enough to handle the freedom.”

      As for the photos, I feel like either side could use that tactic. Pro-marijuana people could definitely put together an essay with interspersed photos that make the other side look bad and our side look good.

    • Duncan20903 says:

      We’re definitely looking for suggestion of how to get the members of the goofball brigade to shut up and stay out of sight. These people aren’t being assigned to voice their opinions by the big re-legalization board of directors you. Oh hey, how about some suggestions about how to get the MSM to quit picking them to interview on TV over say, Ethan Nadelmann. Give those TV reporters a choice and they’ll pick the most colorful clown available to interview 100 times out 100. I got my picture in the Washington Post, front page of the 7/5 Style section, because when I was at the 7/4 Smoke-In I was carrying the chapter flag. Canadian flag style but green and white with a pot leaf instead of a maple leaf. You can be certain that the only reason I was included in the picture was because they wanted to publish a picture of that flag and I happened to be holding it.

      So, should we beat them senseless? Lock them in a shipping container on it’s way to Shanghai? Break into their homes at night and steal all their clown suits and clownface?

      The advocates of repealing the 18th amendment wore suits and ties to their protest marches.

  24. CptnCaveman says:

    dt- You bring up some good points, I guess the thing with the photos is more of a knee jerk reaction on my part. Still, makes me cringe though.

    Duncan- Hehe, any or all of the above I believe. Seriously though, I guess I was kinda preaching to the choir. I think I just expected a lot more middle age smokers to come out of the woodwork in the last couple years. As far as suggestions go, maybe dress up Ethan Nadelmann in an Uncle Sam costume and have him twirl sparklers? I’m sure he could still kick the drug czar’s ass in any properly moderated debate, and the press would eat it up.

  25. darkcycle says:

    Unbelievable…some potheads are so stupid and rude it’s no wonder the government hates us. Some twenty-something yokels opened up a dispensary right next door to my favorite hydro shop. These guys were old school, super discreet and very very DL. For the last decade even the mention of High Times magazine would get you tossed from the store, let alone any mention of the ‘evil weed’. The store had survived green merchant and tons of pressure and stayed cool. Now people are coming into the store asking the owner if it’s HIS dispensary, and marching back and forth with CLONES…. he’s thinking of moving his store to avoid heat.
    C’mon people, I get you want to make money in the industry, but don’t just waltz in and bring heat to everybody in your community. That’s bullshit to the N-th order. To the owners of that store: You screwed the pooch, boys. Find another locale, and maybe somebody will come into your store someday.

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