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Marijuana Addiction - a response

When I whole-heartedly agreed to publishing Danny Chapin’s guest post on marijuana addiction (Marijuana Addiction – guest post and a discussion), I was looking forward to a strong and intelligent response in the comments section from my readers, and I wasn’t disappointed in the least.

If you haven’t had a chance, please go and read the comments (60 to date), and you’ll see what I mean (with a few exceptions).

But I promised to respond, and I will do so now, with the understanding that in many cases, I’ll be repeating what has already been eloquently pointed out by readers.

Treatment Statistics

First off, readers were right to pounce on Danny’s use of numbers of treatment admissions as indicative of, well, anything. Those of us in the reform community have long been aware of the lie that is treatment admission statistics.

As I demonstrated in Treatment Statistics… or, one more way they lie, marijuana treatment admission statistics are fatally skewed by the fact that treatment admission has become a dumping ground for the criminal justice system as opposed to any kind of actual representation of problem usage.

Take a look at a graph of marijuana admission by percentage. (Note: I’ve combined “Alcohol/Drug Abuse Care Provider,” “Other Health Care Provider” and “Other Community Referral” into “Providers” for an easier-to-view chart.)

How dramatic. The clear majority are there because of criminal justice referrals. Only 14.8 percent are individual referrals (which also includes referrals from friends and family members, like parents).

Additionally, I know a number of attorneys who advise their clients arrested on drug charges to immediately voluntarily sign up for treatment (assuming they can make bail), with the idea that it may impress the judge and help them get probation. Those would also fall in the individual referral category.

Contrast the marijuana figures with heroin.

Almost completely reversed. A dramatic difference. (Cocaine falls in-between, with 34.0% individual referral and 30.7% criminal justice referral).

With marijuana admissions, it’s possible to anecdotally assume that there may be some people in treatment with compulsive behavior that also includes marijuana, but it’s certainly not possible to use treatment data to support the existence of any kind of significant levels of marijuana addiction.

In fact, it turns out that lots of people admitted to treatment for marijuana aren’t even using marijuana!

According to federal figures, over 37 percent of the estimated 288,000 thousand people who entered drug treatment for pot in 2007 had not reported using it in the 30 days previous to their admission. Another 16 percent of those admitted said that they’d used marijuana three times or fewer in the month prior to their admission.

That’s addiction?

I find myself wondering if there’s some poor slob somewhere in treatment for marijuana addiction (referred by the courts) who actually never tried pot.

That’s gotta make group awkward.

Bottom line. Treatment admission numbers have been thrown around for years, but they’re meaningless, particularly when it comes to cannabis.

Is Addiction Worth Discussing?

A couple of commenters thought we shouldn’t even mention addiction — that it just feeds into those who would use it as a bludgeon against reformers looking for better policy.

But if we don’t talk about it, that just means we won’t be part of the discussion, and others will define it. Because addiction (by that name or some other) will continue to be a hot topic. Treatment is too big of a business for it to be otherwise.

And unless we can articulate our concerns with the use of the term “addiction,” merely denying it will make us look like we’re burying our heads in the sand to the vast majority of people who know someone with a compulsive problem.

We need to help move the discussion of addiction in a positive direction.

Addiction: Diagnosis of a Person or a Thing?

Danny came close to an important point when talking about Leshner.

The negative aspect of drug addiction isn’t whether or not marijuana or any other drug makes one addicted physically, but whether or not people will act in uncontrollable, compulsive ways to seek it. It is the determent of this compulsion that is the true face of addiction, disrupting families and ruining friendships. And to this extent, we must ask, not whether marijuana has addictive properties, but whether our citizens use marijuana in a safe, controlled, and independent manner.

Danny says we shouldn’t ask whether marijuana has addictive properties — good — and yet, the rest of the discussion goes back to whether marijuana is addictive.

So let’s take it a step further. Let’s re-word that and take out inanimate objects, along with a few other tweaks…

The negative aspect of addiction is whether people will act in uncontrollable, compulsive ways. It is the battle with this compulsion that is the true face of addiction, disrupting families and ruining friendships. And to this extent, we must ask whether individual citizens are able to function in a safe, controlled, and independent manner.

Still not right, but better. You see, I believe addiction is something that is experienced by an individual, not something that exists within some external object.

Certainly some people can be addicted to sex, but we don’t say that sex is addictive, we say that some people have problems with addiction. And that’s the best way to view and manage addiction — as a function of the individual.

This doesn’t mean that we try to hide the fact that there are differences between different substances. As we work with an individual with problems, we know that a problematic abuse of sex is going to be different (in terms of withdrawal, strength of bond, physical/mental issues) than heroin. But we deal with it in the context of the individual who has a problem (and usually it is a combination of problems for which abuse of a substance may merely be one manifestation of their compulsive behavior).

So to say that marijuana or heroin or video games are addictive really misses the entire point of addiction. Some people may have compulsive problems with one or more of those, and others will not. We need to help those who need help, and not be distracted by labeling objects.

Assisting People or Changing People?

Going back to Danny’s statement…

And to this extent, we must ask, not whether marijuana has addictive properties, but whether our citizens use marijuana in a safe, controlled, and independent manner.

That last part scares me a bit, because it seems to assume that there is some group of citizens that can judge whether other citizens are using marijuana in a safe, controlled, and independent manner.

Certainly, I’m in favor of regulating marijuana so that citizens can know that the marijuana they are using is safe, but to determine whether citizens actually are using it in a safe manner is a different question.

In a free society, the default has to go to the individual to determine whether their own actions are safe. Yes, there are times when an individual’s actions interfere with the freedom and security of others and then society must intervene, but only in those specific situations.

I would make treatment available for anyone who feels it will help them deal with their personal problems. I would make it extremely difficult to impose treatment upon someone who doesn’t wish it (ie, showing of definable harm to others). It should never be handed out like traffic tickets.

This also means that dealing with addiction needs to be more like choosing to get a useful service, much like getting dental work or a chiropractic adjustment, rather than as a criminal justice action. (We don’t go after people with bad teeth and say that they have to go to the dentist or they’ll be put in jail.)

Addiction and Legality

Danny Chapin concludes with:

If marijuana can be a disruptive, uncontrollable force in someone’s life, how do we decide whether or not it should be legal?

That’s an easy one. Whether or not marijuana is a disruptive, uncontrollable force in some people’s lives should have absolutely no effect on the legality of marijuana.

Because here’s the simple truth:

If you believe the government has the authority to prohibit drugs,
it’s not enough to say that certain drugs should be illegal because they’re dangerous to individuals or society. You must show:

  1. that they are dangerous,
  2. that criminalization actually significantly reduces the danger,
  3. that criminalization is the best way to reduce the danger, and
  4. that the side effects* of criminalization won’t be worse.

Otherwise the argument is meaningless.

* corruption of law enforcement, putting drug safety and control in the hands of criminals, over-incarceration and the influence of the prison-industrial complex, enormous black market criminal profits, drug war violence, damage to the environment, destruction of families, damage to inner cities and poor communities, militarization of law enforcement and the victims of drug war tactics, racism and civil rights, erosion of civil liberties, foreign policy disasters, financial cost, and lost of the truth.

An honest assessment of the statement above will make it clear that it doesn’t matter what word you use to describe the compulsive behavior of some individuals. There’s absolutely no justification for marijuana to be illegal.

Again, I thank Danny for being willing to post here and get this discussion going. I’ll be offering the opportunity for him to follow-up and rebut or comment on our reactions to his first piece.

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32 comments to Marijuana Addiction – a response

  • JMH

    “(We don’t go after people with bad teeth and say that they have to go to the dentist or they’ll be put in jail.)”
    It depends on how bad they are. Rotten teeth can go septic and kill you, and if someone gets *wind* of it, they can get a court order against you and chain you to the hospital bed which is jail in every meaning of the word. They can and do muck around in all kinds of medical and social decisions because they have the guns to back it up with.
    I’m not saying this is right, I’m just saying it’s currently true. It’s not exactly prohibition related, but I find the overlap disturbing, personally.

  • I’m of the opinion that something is missing here, and as long definitions are this narrow this “something” is going to get left out. We’re all going to continue as blind people until our conceptual landscape allows us to see these landmarks.

    Addiction is a word that’s been codified as pretty much pure evil since the 1961 single convention. It’s about as funny as cancer to most people.

    That’s why I think “dependence” is at least able to show us some things that “addiction” doesn’t. Either it gets thrown around as “damn, that stuff’s addictive” or “his mind was weak and he became addicted”. So either the Devil is an external or internal one. It’s still quite the dualistic crap that ignores the dynamic relationship between a drug and its user.

    OK, to the point. What’s missing is the whole world of self-medication. If we take a pain patient, one of those who have excruitating, suicide-inducing pain on a daily basis such a person would be dependent of a variety of pain killers to get by. The ONLY difference between someone who’s been in a car accident and someone who’s born into an abusive family with step-dad raping her since she was 5-17 years old is that we DO NOT recognize the latter’s psychological pain the way we do with the guy in the accident.

    So not only is that poor girl destroyed emotionally and must go through her life with debilitating, evil pain inside her. No, to make matters worse we make sure we have NOTHING to offer her. She has a need and she WILL try to alter her consqciousness at some point for the better using every drug available.

    So what happens is: this girl plows through the farmacopia and suddenly realizes that the IS a way out. Those opiod pills that she got hold of gave her PEACE for the first time in her life.

    Were we a compassionate socity the story would’ve ended with her going to her doctor, telling him that she accidentally tried some codeine, morphine or oxycodone, and that THAT drug had the most profound anti-depressive effect she’d ever experienced. She felt … hold on … NORMAL for the first time in her life.

    Of course that girl’s trajectory in life would be different. She would find her doctor still had nothing to offer her, and she would try to find the pills on the black market. She’d soon realize how very difficult it is to keep up her medication with legallaly produced, safe medications like morphine. Quickly she discovers that the only drug that’s ALWAYS available is heroin. She’ll start by smoking it, of course, this 17000% over-expensive medicine she is dependent upon. Fast the legal and economic forces in play will drag her down. After the first couple of busts by the police and years in jail where she built up a bit of debt sent her directly out into prostitution and even more property crime. Besides that batch from last month was so bad and all the boils she’s contracted by the unclean drug has lowered her market value. Oh my, some of the things she has to do for money now … Well, you get the point …

    Far away some politicians and academics are discussing addiction. Some guys says sucking cock for a drug is the best indicaton. Oh, the wit and smugness of that one. Others point to the horrors of addiction because, well, look at THIS woman. Totally broken, come to look real ugly due to the boils, involved in crime and a short life ahead of her, not to mention the recent robbery charges from last week when she attacked a hapless woman and child and broke the mother’s jaw. Why? Because she was so addicted to the drug that she didn’t have a problem with robbery.

    Sarah though to herself. I just wanted the damn pills, but all of this is too much. Oh my god, all the things I’ve had to do with all these men, omg omg omg … I just had to have the money, but knowing all I’ve done hurts. Hurts almost as much as what Dad did to me. I’ve never needed a fix more than now. Just one more to give me some peace of mind, a bit of quiet to get my bearings …

    Two weeks later she got hold of a package in jail. She was shameful of the accident with the mother whose jaw she broke, but she weren’t herself af 5 days of no medicine. Anyway, she’d saved up and there it was. Seller said it was rad stuff, really strong. Package looks real big too. Right then and there she decided that either this would be her strongest trip ever, but if it killed her she’d at least be free.

    The prison warden spoke to the journalist. Yes, we’ve had yet another drug overdose among our inmates. That only goes to show the dangerous, addictive nature of drugs, and we have to crack down harder on these people until they understand the dangers of these drugs. As with this inmate it’s also clear how drugs lead to violence, and that’s why we must oppose any of those soft, liberal ideas on how to end this problem. Addiction is evil. We see that with our own eyes every day.

  • claygooding

    A really good discussion with several good points from many people. As I said,the word “addiction” is an evil
    in it’s own right and I believe we should use another word for what “drives” marijuana users to continue using marijuana,even when it is against the law,when they will be ostracized by their neighbors and could end up spending years in prison for possessing it.
    I searched for a long time for a word to substitute the word “addictive” in my catch phrase,”Marijuana is addictive to people the same way sex is,anything that good needs repeating!”,but could find nothing that explained any better why people would continue doing something that could cause people so much trouble and they would continue to do it,anyway.
    And when you think about it,people do have sex,regardless of any dangers or social shunning that might result if they are caught.
    I saw a similar phrase,used at another site,that said
    “Marijuana Is Only Addictive In The Sense
    That All Good Things In Life Are Worth Repeating”.and while it says nearly the same thing,when you use sex as a reference point,instead of a reference that is open to debate on what things in life are worth repeating,one persons poison is another’s cup of tea,but sex is something that a majority of people can understand the “drive” to repeat.

    Marijuana is addictive to people the same way sex is,anything that good needs repeating!

    America does not have a marijuana problem,we can find marijuana in any town in America.

  • Matthew Meyer

    Very nice. But I am a little troubled by placing such emphasis on “the individual.” Problematic and healthful relationships to psychoactive substances (or activities like sex) are not best modeled, I think, as a dyad (individual-substance/activity). People learn to do these things, and to appreciate them, according to cultural parameters. One of the effects of prohibition and stigmatization of cannabis and other drugs is to make it more difficult to establish cross-generational social controls that minimize harms. This aspect of the situation is harder to see when we think only of the individual and the drug/behavior pattern.

  • claygooding

    I thought we were discussing individual freedom,mostly at this site,and the context of addiction it plays in the rights of an individual to accept the “dangers” of the addiction,without the decision being made for us.
    One of the strongest arguments for legalization is the comparison of alcohol to marijuana,a poor comparison,at best. But to understand the difference,you have to experience the difference.
    All it would take for most of America to change from alcohol to marijuana as their choice of “intoxicant”
    is one Saturday night,using marijuana alone to get
    “wasted” and the next morning,waking up not holding on to lay down,headache,stomach roiling and promising to never do it again.
    And that would make a good ad,show a drunk and a head,waking up Sunday morning in a side by side video.

  • Jon Doe

    Clay: Good idea for an ad. I’d expand it to include what the drunk and the head were doing while they were partying the night before.

    The drunk should be shown acting like an ass, vomiting, perhaps getting in a fight or having sex with someone they wouldn’t normally screw, and eventually passing out in a toilet.

    The head perhaps should be shown just hanging out with friends, maybe eating some junk food, listening to music, laughing merrily during a movie or playing video games, and finally settling down for a good night’s sleep in his own bed.

    Then they can both be shown waking up, the drunk sick and barely able to stand, the head refreshed and ready to face the new day.

  • jayrollinhippy

    I have been following this topic with A great deal of intrest. Imho it seems to miss the real question on addiction to anything.I am now inmy late 50’s my parents generation had their own isues with drug use and abuse unfortunately they never reconized it. Simply because thier drugs were prescribed by Doctors, drugs like pain pills , tranqulizers, sleeping pills and stimulants were freely prescibed by doctors. LOL a pill for every ill.
    Now this brings me to the heart of the matter is addiction good or evil? It’s all in the eye of the beholder. Why does the Govt care if A terminally ill patiant beomes addicted to opiates or a patiant with permenet debilitating pain become addicted.
    The extreme postion of prohibition creates A cruel hoax that leaves people in pain. While some drug use is recreational A much higher rate of use is in the shearch for self medication. Imho all ccompulsive use is the result of self medication either in the form of escapes from phsycological pain ora physcical pain.
    The govt postion on drug testing that it improves saftey productivity and absenteeism is just not borne out by the govt on satistics.
    As far as marijuana addiction is concerned Yes tthere are some small percentage of people who display an addictive behavior, but this is just as true for anything from compulsive over eating to watching and gambling own professtional sports.But to criminalize any of these activitys is insane and will never ever work

  • Buc

    Jesper, good post.

  • Just me

    Jesper Kristensen : Thats a very sobering post , I happen to know someone that was abused by her step father. Fortunately she has been able to function with out drugs but , none the less effected as much as this one in your post. It seems to me as a society, we are not very clear minded , much of this fogginess is due to corruption and due to this corruption we force people to live without escape from thier pain.. Very sobering JK .

  • DdC

    Ganja is not addictive. Period. Just repeating falsehoods will never make them true. Lame opinions should never change definitions. They provide consistency for all. Not just excuses for the weak. Low self discipline and esteem is why people blame Ganja for their use. People use Ganja because in many cases it saves their lives, from mediocre bores with opinions. We have cannabinoids in our bodies, Cannabis simply refreshes them, naturally. Would you be called “addicted” to the color red or dertain car models or even craving a type of food or drink? No. So smoking Ganja is a natural act of enhancing what you already have. For thousands of years its kept our immune system strong. Turning off cancer cells. Prohibition is only less than a century old and look at the Neurological diseases and cancer patients. Through the roof. So abstaining from protection is dumb. Buzzwords kill more people than drug warriors.

    Neither is sex addictive. Not for Tigerboy or Coby Bryant. Sex is all masturbation, sometimes producing babies. Gay straight or in clays case, self propelled. Its all masturbation. Double single or in groups its still all masturbation. So to use sex as some kind of addiction comparison is as lame as using Ganja to compare with booze. With that said, sodomy is a much more dangerous form of masturbation than the missionary position. Blowjobs or knotholes, its all the physics of hydraulics, blood flow and emotions to produce a few seconds of endorphins. Both enjoyable acts but not like starvation or dehydration or a junkie needing a fix. I’ve even heard of people surviving without intercourse or Ganja, like Priests. Though they are not banned from masturbation I’m told. Sex is not addictive, even if horny teen hormones makes it seem life threatening, it ain’t.

    So justifying rape as caused by a sex addiction, when its all masturbation, is lame. Stop doing lame stuff clay. Especially public speaking. Have you ever smoked a joint? Pills substitute the body’s natural processes. Dopamine with drugs when the body stops as in Parkinson. Viagra, insulin, heroin etc. Ganja enhances the body, not replaces. Addiction is when a synthetic substance replaces the natural functions and therefore you physically can’t exist without it. Sex and Ganja do not replace anything the body does naturally. Just energizes what is already there. Both are usually pleasurable acts and so as with all pleasure, it is craved by humans. So is warm weather in the winter. Ganja was falsely classed as a narcotic, when it has properties of an hallucinogen. They btw are not addictive. But the buzzword “addiction” can be used derogatorily as it is for one simple reason. To perpetuate the war. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer! Wolves in sheeps clothing and all that. Oh and clay, it doesn’t grow tits on boys either so don’t worry, you’re safe. lol

  • Hope

    Well said, Jesper.

  • Servetus

    The therapist has a professional, vested interest in defining a mental pathology in the broadest possible terms to create the largest base of potential clientele. Prohibitionists need cannabis to be addictive because it helps justify their goal of eradicating it. Drug treatment centers have a financial interest in maintaining any myth supporting marijuana addiction that allows them to profit from the huge volume of court ordered diversions for marijuana arrests. All these factors and more can influence addiction and dependence definitions within the psychology profession, and in particular, how they are acted upon by those with power.

    To defend against the special interests, the alleged evils of addiction or dependence can not be allowed to overshadow the innate value of the individual citizen. The fact that five-out-of-seven American Nobel Prize winners in literature have been alcoholics, not to mention Hunter Thompson, Bukowski or Kerouac, doesn’t mean these people should have been arrested and subjected to involuntary treatment for alcoholism. Nor does it mean that writers should be focused upon as a special risk group. The consequences of doing so are unpredictable.

    One example stands out. Hemingway’s family intervened over the writer’s alcoholism. He was subjected to electric shock treatments that negatively affected his memory and mental skills. Hemingway later said the treatment for his alcoholism destroyed his ability to write. Since he lived to write, in a sense he was addicted to writing, his literary loss, and ours, resulted in his suicide shortly thereafter.

  • james

    Individuals act and that is the bottom line. When speaking of drugs licit and illicit just remember that there is nothing in the particular substances that cause so-called addictive behavior. There is not a shred of evidence that supports addiction as anything other than consciously chosen behavior. Alcohol is normal more evil or good than herb or any other drug. The actions of the individual determine whether a drug is considered good or bad. To say that using a substance can make you act in a way that you didn’t intend is nonsense. If there was any substance that could control individuals wills like that, governments would be putting said substance in the drinking water and the food probably in those damn flu shots that the sheeple run out and take every year. LOL

  • james

    that was supposed to be no more evil not normal

  • Van Driessen's Sandals

    Whatever gets one through the night can’t be all bad. Just keep it off my wave. Addiction is probably a personality disorder and not the fault of a substance.

  • tint guy

    Finally somebody said the “D” word! I believe that is what addiction is–a disorder.

    Just like fear and certain other disorders it can be specific or general; mild to extreme; be genetic or caused by outside stimuli.

    I’m no doctor but that definition really does seem to fit best to me. I also think it should be considered separate from the physical dependence that comes with the heavy use of certain substances.

  • ezrydn

    It’s been interesting reading this. Yet, I find no place where my “number” fits into all the data. Where do you list a person who uses cannabis in order to have a more normal life??

    I don’t vap to get high. I vap to subdue the PTSD demons. Without the fear of an “episode,” I enjoy my daily life better.

    I’ve tried the VA discussions, their pills (UGH!) and to no avail. Yet, after living with this internal horror, I found something that does away with the nightmare and provides “normalcy” to me.

    So, am I an addict? Am I “addicted” to normal life? Where, in this discussion, would my statistic fall?

  • Jon Doe

    ezrdyn: I’m in a similar situation as you, though I suffer from severe depression and “mild” psychosis rather than PTSD. Cannabis normalizes my behavior, makes life more enjoyable, and indeed makes it easier to get work (both creative and practical) done.

    The pills the government gives me help with the crying spells and the insomnia when I don’t have access to the green but the side effects are just plain nasty and more often than not they turn me into a drugged zombie who’d rather just lay about rather than doing anything useful.

    Strange when you think about. I’m useful with illegal pot and a worthless druggie with government approved and provided pills.

  • Carol

    Cannabis is not physically addictive. There is literature that supports this, is there not? I used it when young, then decided not to use it, because I had children. No problem.

    I think coffee is physically addictive, and have used it for years. I have a really difficult time resisting sweets, and usually don’t resist them. Sweets are probably pretty bad for your health and certainly make me feel bad.

    Should I be jailed now for being addicted to and having coffee and sweets?

  • Just me

    Nope no cannabis addiction here , but man I would love to smoke some right now, makes the whole world a litttle less ugly. Freaking piss tastes are ruining that.Seems to me its a misery loves company thing. There are those who wish they could escape from the ugliness for a time but cant for what ever reasons , so they make the rest of us miserable too.

  • ezrydn

    I always like to have someone berate me for vaping, when they’re a tobacco smoker. I usually just say, “Let’s put our ‘stuff’ on the table, sit and wait. First one to grab is an addict.” They’ll lose everytime, hands down.

    JD – I thing the last time I experienced any sort of “high” from my usage was probably 6 years ago. A single hit will take care of me for several hours. I’m usually a 3 hit per day guy, vaping a single hit only. That’s all that’s needed to deactivate PTSD.

    I had my doc here give me an Rx for one Marinol pill, to see what was up with that. No PTSD relief but one hellova out of control HIGH. No thanks! The dinosaurs can keep their self-made drugs. I’ll stick with the plant that hasn’t been nutered by them.

    I’m wondering what Washington is going to do when all our military comes home and the flood of PTSD hits and they’re not ready for it. I have no doubt the vets will quickly hear about what works.

    I can honestly say I haven’t had an “episode” since I’ve been used this support. And I can function as a normal human being again and that’s what matters to me.

    So, I’m addicted to normal life. Ergo, I’m an “addict.” Right?

  • Friedrich Braunschmitt III

    I would rather have marijuana over diazepam (valium) or hydrocodone (vicodin) but I hate pills. Marijuana is lovingly crafted by Mother Nature not made in a lab.

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  • claygooding

    Dcd,take a pill and chill. What ever I said to anger you is just tough,I was probably smoking and growing my own before you were a gleam in your daddies eye.
    As far as I know,sex is not addictive,as the same goes for marijuana,cool your jets if you can’t recognize tongue in cheek humor or satirical phrases. The outlawing of marijuana makes just as much sense as would a law against masturbation,you had just as well go ahead and lock everyone up as a kid and save waiting to catch them.

  • @clay, DdC might be ranting against me. Don’t lose too much sleep.

  • DdC

    … and your point is as dull as usual steve claygooding. I was growing in 1971 so you must be at least a hundred. That makes sense as to why you blame your lack of self disipline on pot being addictive. As far as anything you “say”, your word is shit to me so save it. I don’t believe you or am I impressed by little boys growing pot to brag to their punky friends. I doubt seriously if you’ve ever even smoked pot. But thats just my opinion. You try to push an agenda here and someone will call you on it. Whatever idiotic reefer mad crazytalk you bring. Pot is not addictive and justifying rape with sex addiction is perverted. Deal with it.

  • DdC, if you want people to respect you as an adult, stop throwing tantrums and participate in the discussion.

  • DdC

    I don’t believe trolls have a clue to what respect is. If you notice, I’m returning fire. Doesn’t take much. So no thanks, fuck their respect. Anyone doesn’t want my pithy coments should leave me out of their discussions. Especially the illiterates who can’t spell DdC. Though I believe it is better to get pissed off than pissed on. I’m not pissed. I’m bored. Especially after skimming over troll do do. So the clays have a clear choice to attack the issue not the messenger. That part always seems to elude people.

  • claygooding

    The only messengers under attack are the ones you have attacked.I have not said anything derogatory about your childish attitude,but I could have.
    I never said anything about you failure to understand
    what a satirical pun was.Maybe I should have typed it s-l-o-w-e-r.
    End of argument with you DcD,since I don’t have the intelligence to break down the English language simply enough for you to understand that you have me mixed up with someone that gives a crap about how you feel.

  • @DcC: problem sorta is you’re throwing around the word addiction and I can’t really figure out what you mean by the word. Are you referring to the DSV-IV or the new V or maybe the ICD-10 classification, or are you simply using a fuzzy laymen’s term? I’m sorta partial to the ICD-10 myself, although I find it completely arbitrary that on a list of 10 questions you gotta score only 2 hits to get into the “warning” zone, and with just 3 hits to get the “you might consider seeking professional help” message. Once I put the the wife + the entire office (lol – good workplace I guess) only instructing my drug-virgin friends to substitute “alcohol” for “drug” in a test clearly based on ICD-10. The office needed professional help, and even the wife got a warning although she’s among the most sober and least drug using people I know. Sheesh, she don’t even feel too comfortable drinking a whole bottle of wine at a party.

    If this came down to a pissing contest of “who’s smoked what” in order to be a reliable witness (yay, finally!) I could probably outpiss you and a bunch of others. I if I based my findings on personal experience only I’d say that any cannabis product exerts a greater pull at me than does heroin. What? You don’t believe me? Well, go smoke some and you’ll see how boring it is 😛 😛

    I’d rather give up opiods than alcohol, benzoes and quaaludes are OK but exerts an even lesser pull on me. Ketamine is by far some of the weirdest I’ve done, yet under some circumstances a bona fide psychedelic little gem, and as a utility/medicine drug it’s quite the painkiller. And cocaine is just “meh”, IDGI?

    Me and the guys have lots of these discussions, and I find it remarkable that some seem to be able to get addicted (their own words) to pretty much anything, some don’t even like pot yet like GHB or ketamine, and others profess openly that pot is the only thing they can’t have lying around because they’ll compulsive smoke the entire stash – even when going to work – and not stop until the last piece of green is combusted. Most I know wouldn’t trade cocaine for pot unless at gunpoint. Some people clearly have trouble controlling their use of certain drugs, but it’s not entirely predictable. Who would’ve though Rush Limbaugh was a “druggie”, eh? LOL

    Some jokingly use prostitution as a surrogate outcome to predict whether drug either addictive or non-addictive. I personally don’t know many sex workers, but I’ll definitely ask around now the issue came up, but I do know of people who committed a great deal of B&E to support their hash habit.

  • Outlaw Baker

    Great post. Personally I think a doctor is better than the courts to resolve cases of addiction. I belive that marijuana is less addictive than other legal drugs too.

  • Addiction is not a crime. If an addiction is linked to a crime where there is a victim, we already have laws against all sorts of crime. We don’t need to have laws against addictions. What we need is a knowledge base of best practices to get from intentions to outcomes while avoiding pitfalls.