DEBATE ON LEGALIZED MARIJUANA TO BE BROADCAST WEDNESDAY
Judge Jim Gray to Advocate for Legalization Opposite Dr. Kevin Sabet
COâ€”Former federal prosecutor, judge advocate for the Navy JAG corps and Superior Court Judge Jim Gray (Ret.) is in the Denver area this week meeting with media and civic groups and preparing for a debate this Wednesday on the merits of marijuana legalization, regulation and control. Judge Gray is a member of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, a group of law enforcement officials who believe that prohibiting illicit drugs only serves to empower the criminal networks that sell them, wastes law enforcement time and resources, contributes to racial disparities in the justice system, saddles people who would be better served by treatment with criminal records and ultimately is ineffective at reducing use.
“The essential question is, would you rather have government regulators and legitimate business owners deciding how marijuana is grown, what it’s laced with, and who can buy it, or would you rather leave those decisions – and multiple billions of dollars in profits – to drug cartels and juvenile street gangs?”
He will be debating Dr. Kevin Sabet of Project SAM this coming Wednesday at the Colorado School of Mines in an event that will be broadcast live here. (http://www.fee.org/seminars/page/is-legalizing-marijuana-a-responsible-public-policy). Judge Gray will also be available for interviews before and after the debate.
“I look forward to discussing with Dr. Sabet the lesson we all should have learned eighty years ago with the prohibition of alcohol: Prohibiting a substance doesn’t prevent its use; it merely makes that use vastly more dangerous to both users and the communities in which they live.”
WHO: Judge Jim Gray vs. Dr. Kevin Sabet
WHAT: A public debate on marijuana legalization
WHEN: Wednesday, July 16 10:45am MT
WHERE: Colorado School of Mines Student Center, Ballroom B, 1600 Maple Street Golden, CO 80401 or online at http://www.fee.org/seminars/page/is-legalizing-marijuana-a-responsible-public-policy.
the question should be: is prohibiting anything as harmless as cannabis good public policy? i blame the insanity on our leaders’ fondness for alcohol.
It surprises me that kev-kev agreed to debate the Judge,,I can’t think of any better match up,,his dribble on big marijuana will be shot down from the debate because we already have big marijuana,,the cartels hold the title right now and it is time for us to dominate the world market for awhile.
Clay, in the beginning, K-K said his first debate was with the judge 18 years ago and “he is as cordial today as then” and in the next line or two called him a liar.
Here’s another one from the “hey teacher! leave those kids alone!” category:
sooner or later the public will notice the lameness of the prohibitch talking points. it may have already happened.
I eagerly await y’alls synopsiseses and comments about this. Can we say slice and dice. I can’t imagine anyone being better prepared than Judge Jim for young master sabet.
Well, other than ANY member of LEAP.
Judge Jim is actually – very good at this – he’s had a ton of practice in (relatively) recent years!
(I think – that as a judge who sent people to jail for drugs at one point in the past, he might in fact be a member of LEAP?)
Either way the fact that he’s been the one whose sent people to jail, and seen them show-up in his court again (and whatnot) gives him a degree of credibility that Kev-Kev simply does not have.
And he should be able to acknowledge and then squash KevKev’s favorite go-to argument “Big Marijuana”, I’ve heard the Judge talk about the possible problems that might arise from advertising marijuana – and as a judge he can lay-out (to a reasonable extent) what would be necessary to regulate the sale and prevent major large-scale advertising of marijuana.
I’ve always thought that was the flimsy-est argument to begin with = and hearing people talk about “drug-pushers” selling weed. I had a friend that always joked about that too – saying, “Oh you need some weed? – hold on a second while I call my ‘pusher’…” – its a ludicrous suggestion really. You’re not going to find people out buying it = because someone was actively trying to sell it to the general public, unsolicited.
It goes to the old truism, “You don’t have to sell drugs they sell themselves”, Now could advertising influence someone’s choice of which specific type or “brand” they decide on buying? sure…
But they act like you’re going to have tons of TV ads and whatnot trying to subconsciously urge you into buying some weed ‘outta the blue’… Like you might see in the case of a say = a fast-food commercial – that ends up with you calling in a deliver order for Chinese-food, or a pizza.
Marijuana just isn’t likely to become an “impulse purchase” – IMHO, not in my lifetime… And, even the possibility of that becoming ‘a thing’, IS -in no way- enough of a concern, to justify the continued prohibition of its sale and use.
In some cities its possible that you could have it delivered more easily know – as a black-market item, than you might if Kev-kev’s “Big Marijuana” scenario actually somehow came to pass.
“What about the children?, you tell them the same thing you do about a half-dozen other things, “this is something that’s only for adults – or kids with cancer”, or whatever…
That wouldn’t change the reality of being a parent that’s (irrationally) afraid of marijuana right now. They’re still going to have to have – a nearly identical – conversation about it with their kids.
And what we’re talking about here is the chance for parents to address the issue of marijuana use and – (IMO) more importantly, to discuss the use of other drugs with their children truthfully – and free of disingenuous bullshit, and the possible consequences of adults lacking credibility with their kids – when it comes to the issue of truly dangerous drug use.
Kevin is a smooth talker but I’m betting he’ll stick his foot in his mouth in this debate.
Should be interesting.
Getting High Would Be Legal If It Weren’t For THIS
Many thanks, DdC! I really enjoyed that. It made the necessary points while poking fun exactly where it needed to.
That is some good stuff DdC, thanks for sharing!
Clothing? Why the HELL would they take clothing?
Because it was a “Thank You For Pot Smoking” t-shirt from the American Cannabis Society?
Hey, they like us!
Hey!! Prez Choom! You sir need to issue a stand down order for SWAT unless it’s one of those situations where they’re actually fucking needed!!
THIS IS NOT OK!
So, what, this is the drug war version of that Bill Bye vs. Creationism debate?
Yep, Pretty Much!
WHat a slimey liar this Sabet guy is – he’s just throwing out various half-truths and hoping one will stick.
My only reservation about Grey is that he is basically still a prohibitionist – he believes cannabis is bad but should be controlled like alcohol. We know it is good, a sacred plant endowed to us by our loving creator.
Sabet, on the other hand, thinks cannabis use will go up with legalization – he thinks its bad, but I hope he’s right!
I agree with you, divadab, there are others (LEAP spokespeople for instance) who are NOT basically prohibitionists who could have done it better. But Gray was better than no debate at all.
I think y’all should watch that again, now he said Very Carefully & Purposefully that he wasn’t in favor of ‘this thing called Legalization’ – And, that he WAS instead a supporter of Regulation… (He even briefly said = IIRC, that ‘long-term’ he’s in favor of regulating basically all drugs, because we KNOW Prohibition simply does not work.)
I’m 99% sure Kev-Kev even started to talk smack back to him about that specific remark, BUT he’d already acknowledged that the status quo is unsustainable – and trying to weave some nuance into the previous section of the debate wouldn’t go over at all.
AND that Kev desperately wanted to stick with his attempt to hammer home his NEW, ‘end all be all – of policy positions’ – his BS notion that – “Big Marijuana = SCARY…”
So, to all of you out there – well, at least the ‘Good Parents’, you better remember to remain *Very Afraid* of Marijuana = Just like our Dark Lord Anslinger’ originally intended!
Note: “Originally” in this case was actually a few moments after it first dawned on Harry – that he and all his friends/employees were about to become largely unnecessary & most would become unemployed. The rest would be sent out into the middle of nowhere to try & find hillbillies making moonshine, in stills.
Unless he could come up with a new thing to prohibit, the one thing He’d previously refused to even try prohibiting = because it was growing damn near everywhere! Then he slowly realized that meant he & his government ‘busy-body’ buddies would have at least a decade or two of job security & he pulled so much ‘magical propaganda’ that directly appealed to the lowest natures & vile qualities among men = racism, bigotry, and xenophobia…
Sabet assumes that all products require a strong sales force behind them to create sales. Thatâ€™s true only if the product doesnâ€™t sell itself. Ice cream sells itself. If there werenâ€™t a huge marketing force behind ice cream, people would make homemade ice cream because they would still want it. They might sell their extra homemade ice cream to others, despite the fact ice cream can lead to obesity and tooth decay for those who consume too much.
Marijuana falls into the same marketing category as ice cream. The market for marijuana has remained impervious to everything the government has thrown at it. Whether itâ€™s Big Marijuana selling the product, or a lot of mom-and-pop pot shops, marijuana will be sold and consumed. The issue becomes how to sell marijuana while doing the least amount of harm to the public and to the consumers. Legalization accomplishes that goal far better than creating temptations and opportunities for criminal entrepreneurs.
Sabetâ€™s propagandizing is targeted toward a public that in the last decade has become extremely wary of big business. Big banks and financial institutions deemed â€œtoo big to failâ€, and Big Communications companies that irritate many consumers with bad service, have driven consumers mad with rage. Sabet is trying to channel that same rage toward the marijuana industry. But since marijuana sells itself, Kevin Sabet will fail to stop legalization and regulation, in whatever form it evolves into. He canâ€™t win.
So very true Servetus,
Marijuana doesn’t need “advertising” to sell – and he notion that “everyone who supports legalizing it” – is “all about the money” – that’s plainly false.
As is his B.S. assertion about a new “Big Marijuana” industry – wanting “Get young people addicted to it – because that’s the only way you sell anything…”
I’m not sure that’s a ‘word for word’ quote but it’s close, and he’s desperately clinging to the this scarey story about how “Big Marijuana (equals) Big Tobacco”.
Trying to say that only kids like flavored-stuff just like the FDA did with cigarettes, and are now desperately trying to do with E-cigs. Suggesting that – (1.) Adults don’t like “Flavored” products – and that (2.) “Colorful” packaging is meant to attract solely children alone = I’m absolutely certain that’s a total farce – there are plenty of expensive candies & chocolates that are somewhat ‘niche markets’ but they’re largely marketed toward adults = for who “gourmet chocolates” are a favorite.
Most kids will eat just about anything “chocolate” – and to them – chocolate is chocolate, is chocolate…
I also think we could find some people in Marketing to prove that adults are drawn to colorful “attractive packaging” – at least enough to discount this B.S. as “aimed at children = trying to get them addicted young…”
Yes, I’m 70 and I really miss the real clove flavored cigarettes, I used to buy a pack now and then. Didn’t smoke them regularly, just on occasion. I have an e-cig (trying to make hubby happy and get away from the “real thing”) and my favorite flavor from the company that makes this e-cig is the Vanilla, their clove flavor doesn’t taste like clove cigarettes to me, their tobacco flavor does taste like a real cig but I should have bought the lower nicotine level, it tastes too strong. I ordered the strength closest to the real cigs I smoke, I ordered the Vanilla in the next lower strength.
Marijuana Farmers Market Ordered to Shut Down http://cannabisnews.com/news/28/thread28178.shtml
Narcan Helps Paramedics To Save Lives http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v14/n590/a02.html
First Amendment attorney takes over Cannabis University suit against Broncos, Pat Bowlen http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2014/07/first_amendment_attorney_takes_over_cannabis_unive.php via @tokeofthetown
Harm reduction works
Good News: Jury Nullification is Interfering With Marijuana Convictions | The Daily Sheeple
breaking: US House of Reps votes approve cannabis banking
hmmm… it seems to be more a case of voting to defeat a measure that would disallow cannabis biz banking…
Good! The fight’s still on. Banking’s coming!
Just watched the debate. Judge Jim was on top of his mark. Kev-Kev came out stumbling and, from what I heard, wasn’t quite on-topic. But, that’s his nature. He sure got defensive when SAM’s funding came up.
“He sure got defensive when SAMâ€™s funding came up.”
LOL! (Slapping knee) I haven’t seen the debate, but I figured he would. He has to be getting Gub’mint funding as well as alms from the Booze and Prison industries. Given how so many Americans are turning away from the DrugWar, it stands to reason that damn few personal contributors are throwing coins his way.
It’s the old ‘foundation’ game. An industry creates a foundation that is staffed with industry wonks to propagandize in favor of the industry. Old as dirt.
The various industries that would lose a major part of their funding are bankrolling SAM. And ONDCP is (illegally, but that never stopped them) acting as a clearing house and nerve center.
The rot runs deep, and you’ll need more than baby shampoo to clean it out. More like hydrofluoric acid.
oh, sounds like Judge Gray read Lee Fang’s Nation article! Heh… nice to hear Kev-kev was uncomfortable. That just make me want to light one up!
fffffffffffffffft! ‘ere… somebody take this.
Yessiree, That was the part when Kev-Kev’s face turned (almost) the color of his freaking tie!
And, Flustered is an understatement – you can tell he’s concerned that someday soon he’s going to be stuck in congress and/or court defending the source of his funding = you can hear the change in his tone & semantics… listen carefully and watch the evil-eye glare he shots at Judge Jim, almost as if he’d been accused of a crime or something(?)
That’s when he went from saying, “We” as if speaking for all he Prohib-Idiots in general. And he went into a defensive mode making sure to distinguish that the “We” he was talking about – from that point on – as being exclusively “SAM”…
(It Was Priceless!)
I missed most of the debate. Will it be on YouTube or some other accessible venue?
It’s available now at the link in Pete’s post. Just click on “watch it again”.
The problem I have with these debates is that the resolution is always backwards. The resolution shouldn’t be â€™Legalizing marijuana saves money and lives’ it should be ‘Prohibiting marijuana saves money and lives’. It shouldn’t be ‘Drugs should be legal’ it should be ‘Drugs should be illegal’. Those in favour of the status quo (prohibition) should have to provide a justification for their position FIRST.
yep, that’s why I sit on Pete’s couch… people making sense outta bullshit. Great point Strayan, I like it!
Good for the Colorado School of Mines.
Interesting address Golden CO.
Wonder what else resides in Golden CO.
N.R.E.L. and they say they can demonstrate
the technical advances needed to produce celluosic
ethanol at $2.15 a gallon.
Gee wonder what the yeild of cellulose per arcre of Hemp
is. Switchgrass has been used but it takes years for the
roots to take hold.
Hope some day we will be saying good going
Colorado School of Cannabis.
Debunking Kevin Sabetâ€™s Anti-Marijuana Arguments http://www.theweedblog.com/debunking-kevin-sabets-anti-marijuana-arguments/ via @theweedblog
If you. . .
1 — Support Marijuana Prohibition.
2 — Support the (highly racist) implementation of current marijuana laws.
3 — Think people should be arrested, thrown in jail, and have their lives ruined because they’ve been found in possession of marijuana.
Then you are a fascist, a hateful person (and most likely a racist, too). The moral high ground is no longer yours. Please evolve or go the way of the dinosaur. Your continued support of the status-quo is killing people.
Johnny Winter, RIP. http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/07/17/blues-guitar-legend-johnny-winters-dies/ â€¦
Johnny Winter with Edgar Winter and White Trash – Tobacco Road
Wow – Johnny’s music was a big part of my youth and I think it’s time to add a song or two from his repertoire to the band’s song list. RIP Johnny Winter.
“It’s my own Fault” live w/ Rick Derringer. Astoundingly fine jazzy guitar blues.
off topic: the only time i ever submitted any of my precious bodily fluids to get a job was in 1990 so i could install rubber bumpers on a brand new tug boat. i’m glad i did it, if only to witness the launching of the tug. well, that company will be sold to the highest bidder tomorrow. http://tinyurl.com/lz3e7pz
some folks don’t like our friends at LEAP:
How Black Pepper relieves Cannabis Anxiety
Traditional responses to cannabis induced anxiety include pinene-rich black pepper, limonene-rich citrus, and calamus root high in myrcene. Myrcene is also found in hops (Humulus), the only other member of the Cannabaceae plant family.
Biologist Explains How THC Kills Cancer Cells