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February 2013
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Just how much stupid can you squeeze into two sentences?

This account of Mayor Bloomberg’s opposition to legalizing marijuana sure seems to indicate that he’s trying for the record.

Bloomberg: I Oppose Legalizing Marijuana

Bloomberg says he opposes legalizing marijuana because it’s stronger than it used to be. He added that if marijuana were legal, those dealers would just start selling something else, like cocaine.

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84 comments to Just how much stupid can you squeeze into two sentences?

  • oooh… now he’s gonna be nice to pot heads and use a condom when he screws ‘em. Stupid is as stupid does. Lord we need a ban on dumbass politicians. He couldn’t debate the topic for longer than 30 seconds before his brain cells would be sayin’ sorry boss, that’s all we got.

    Now here is what an intelligent NY mayor sounds like:

    “My own interest in marihuana goes back many years, to the time when I was a member of the House of Representatives and, in that capacity, heard of the use of marihuana by soldiers stationed in Panama. I was impressed at that time with the report of an Army Board of Inquiry which emphasized the relative harmlessness of the drug and the fact that it played a very little role, if any, in problems of delinquency and crime in the Canal Zone.

    “The report of the present investigations covers every phase of the problem and is of practical value not only to our own city but to communities throughout the country. It is a basic contribution to medicine and pharmacology. I am glad that the sociological, psychological, and medical ills commonly attributed to marihuana have been found to be exaggerated… The scientific part of the research will be continued in the hope that the drug may prove to possess therapeutic value for the control of drug addiction.”

    Fiorello LaGuardia, 1944, in the forward to his blue ribbon committee report, The Marijuana Problem in the City of New York.

    Bite me Bloomberg… you know-nothing excrementalist…

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  • Windy

    I agree with this comment from Matt B over at STDW:
    It’s time to stop being politically correct. That can only get us so far. It’s time to get nasty with these morally bankrupt drug warriors. It’s time to start publicly calling them out, each by name, for their decades of failure.

    I know NORML folks get testy with idiot drug warriors during televised arguments, BUT IT’S NOT ENOUGH. Calling these people hypocrites is not even scratching the surface.

    The public doesn’t know who 99% of these idiots are… when they think of Joe Biden they don’t think drug warrior, they think “old idiot with fake smile”, and so on. Politics is about image, and we need to RUIN the image of the drug warrior politician. Right now people think politicians are corrupt but untouchable, that needs to change.

    And read the response to his comment by Victoria Woodhull, too.
    http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/2013/feb/14/legalization_foes_come_out_swing

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    • War Vet

      On what moral, logical and ethical grounds do we have the right to call them names:

      It’s a known fact that HSBC did business with the Taliban . . . the U.N. in 2004 estimated that Al Qaeda had earned $2.4 billion in drug money, thus implying that the HSBC did in fact launder drug money from Al Qaeda (just like what Wachovia did with the Mexicans) . . . yet the Department of Justice won’t touch the HSBC and yet the largest source of allies –ground troops for the prohibs is the DOJ. Would it be appropriate to call a member of law enforcement or a judge an Al Qaeda sympathizer . . . maybe a Muslim Terrorist Sympathizer? The logic is sound and thus valid and not faulty: the DOJ protects those who protect radical terrorism, therefore the DOJ is a radical terrorist sect . . . they are an activated Radical Terrorist cell in America (and everywhere else)who has no religion but with very similar goals as Radical Islam. If we can prove illegal drugs are grown in the Cresent and if we can prove America is at war fighting drug money, then we can prove AG Holder is allied to Al Qaeda and the Taliban . . . the Taliban makes dope, which needs to be prohibited for war and people controlling funding, thus securing the jobs of not only the DOJ and various prohibs who are also in the business of people controling, but also securing the jobs of the poppy farmer and the terrorist smuggler/tax-er/street dealer associated with them. The Feds won’t let Americans grow hemp . . . The Feds allowed Americans to grow hemp during WWII for the war . . . the year 2001 was a real year and the beginning of a decade plus long war, thus meaning the Feds are working with radical terrorists because the Federal Government won’t let you grow hemp for the U.S. military, which in essence is a pinching off of the goods needed to wage a proper war for a real victory, therefore it can be proven that any department of the Federal Government or any member of the DOJ who won’t let an American grow hemp after 9/11 is in fact a radical terrorist . . . someone who is indoctrinated with a non-religious version of Jihad . . . to kill the Country to save it from drugs . . . to destroy the nation and her troops to keep our jobs.

      It is 100% impossible to disprove that AG Holder isn’t a Jihadist like minded kind of guy, just like the rest of them who allow drugs to be illegal at the cost of it financing the vast majority of those we fight oversees . . . of it financing 4 airplanes . . . a little motorized boat off the cost of Yemen . . . a double-decker buss in London . . . the destruction of a large barracks in Lebanon in 81’ . . . AG Holder is the person at each airport making you take off your shoes –not the terrorists . . . how is a terrorist a terrorist when the terrorist has no weapons or not enough weapons to terrorize the people because they cannot afford it . . . then he would be a ‘Fizzled-out-ist’.

      Rational name calling should be allowed as long as it is concurrent with the facts –hence Muslim Terrorist Sympathizer, which has no chance in hell of being disproved (unless we can disprove the War on Terror and it only being a figment of our imagination).

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      • claygooding

        If it was just one financial institution it would be unforgivable but it has been a pattern throughout the drug war,,fines is all any of them get and the fines are a drop in the bucket of what they made from them,,,more like late taxes than fines.

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        • War Vet

          The best way to find any bank who has done any of this is to throw a dart at a map of the U.S. and if it hits near a populated area, then there must be banks, and if there are banks, then there must be drug money of some amount in it. The same can be done to the maps of Mexico, Pakistan, Iran, Brazil, Columbia and every European nation. Probable Cause: large financial institution with lots of money . . . that should be what it takes to get warrants on every bank in America and the world. But that won’t happen . . . the bankers won’t get the satisfaction of getting their very own Nuremburg like trial with real American hemp ropes adorning their necks. The man who laundered Osama Bin Laden’s money should have been killed as well . . . we even had some of these laundering types in our Black Prison (CIA term) in Baghdad (Something the CIA taught my unit –how to make the elephant in the room appear smaller than the coffee cup on one’s table, thus unnoticeable) . . . had the bankers in our War Prison been part of HSBC and not some smaller bank or some small fish that can get caught, we wouldn’t have had them in the Black of the prison . . . only Al Qaeda and the rest of the various insurgents were lucky enough to not be Black and live Black . . . But the Italian and Russian Mafia and various bankers became all Blacks in the Black of the Prison. Who would have thought that the movies, ‘The Godfather’ and ‘Scarface’ gave better depictions of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan than the news reporter did? How much of the violence in Iraq wasn’t reported as a ‘Mob Hit’ to the local Americans hearing about bombs in markets and bombs in cars going off and killing many people . . . When dozens and dozens and dozens of Al Capone like tactics get masked and mingled up by Jihad, we only look at it as Sectarian Violence in Baghdad and not as a power move for dopers in Chicago or Moscow. With Saddam out of the way, it behooves NYC Gangsters to go to Iraq and set up business with Iranians sympathetic to Shia developments and politics –that is if we consider Iran to be a part of the Golden Crescent.

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  • Then/let's/start/here

    .

    “It’s time to get nasty with these morally bankrupt drug warriors.”

    It’s time to get nasty with these morally bankrupt parasitic prohibitionists.

    “I know NORML folks get testy with idiot drug warriors during televised arguments, ..”

    I know NORML folks get testy with idiot prohibitionists during televised arguments, ..”

    “And we need to RUIN the image of the drug warrior politician.”

    And we need to RUIN the image of the prohibitionist politician.

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  • mr. ikashini

    Didn’t mayor Mike say he enjoyed it?

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  • Peter

    does anyone know if bloomberg has investments in privatised prisons in upstate ny? in some ny counties these are the biggest employers and also distort the voting power of these largely repub constituencies. under various gerrymandered adjustments, the prison population counts as part of the district even though the inmates have no vote. this gives much more power per vote to rural repubs who are likely also to be employed in the prisons and no doubt vote their paychrck. i fully agree that we need more name and shame reports on corrupt drug warrior pols like biden.

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    • Peter

      i think ny state may have discontinued privatized prisons but the prison-industrial complex in ny is still heavily involved in drug war lobbying through guard unions. prison employees, support workers and most of the rural businesses awill have a vested interest in keeping the drug war going in the state. i seem to remember something from pre civil war era about black men having no vote but counting as 2/3 of a white man for representative purposes in congress. seems not much has changed in these ny counties/ penal colonies.

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      • Duncan20903

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        Peter, didn’t you know that the 3/5ths thing (not 2/3rds) was a compromise and that the slave free States wanted the Negroes to count as 0/100ths of white people for purposes of representation? The Slavers wanted them to count as 100% human so I really don’t think that particular item is a good example of racism.

        Did they really not count black women and children at all? I know they made them into slaves. IIRC it was population that determined Congressional representation in the Constitution, not eligible voters. If it were the latter I don’t think that it would have been an issue at all because no slaves were allowed to legally own real property.

        It’s genuinely unreasonable to complain because there were political compromises needed to get the damn document adopted in the first place. Christ in a crotch, most other revolutionary governments seize power and expand it in the selfish interests of the people who put themselves in charge. Our Founding Fathers took the power that they seized in their coup, turned around and gave the power back to the people. The Constitution that they gave us wasn’t perfect but it did offer a method of correction which has worked more or less. It took less than 8 decades for the institution of slavery to end in this Country but we wouldn’t have had a Country without political compromise in the late 18th century. It was a different world back then so it’s also foolish to judge it based on today’s world. For the love of god Abraham Lincoln was a hardcore racist. He was never a friend of the Negro but he was a genuine friend of freedom.

        Demanding perfection in law from the get go is always self defeating. We’ve not only managed to keep our Republic, we’ve managed to significantly improve it. It’s the only damn reason that cannabis/drugs law reform is not only possible, it’s inevitable.

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        • darkcycle

          Damn. Wish I’d said that. PASSING ORDER REVISION: Duncan gets a bong hit.

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        • Peter

          Duncan: my reference to the compromise of 3/5th of a person (thanks for the correction) was not intended as an example of racism (although it is obviously that too). I was trying to make a parallel with those in NY State who gain a political advantage based on population figures even though many of the population are denied a vote. In the case of upstate NY, where most NY prisons are, this gives a numerical advantage to those who tend to support prohibition for financial reasons, and has distorted the will of the majority in the state as a whole in regard to cannabis reform. I think this is one reason why NY has lagged behind the more evolved states on this issue.

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  • Duncan20903

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    We’ve got to keep cannabis illegal in order to keep the criminals from getting into REAL mischief.

    I’ve got to admit that it’s hard to come up with a reasonable response to logic like that. Every time I hear that one my brain just stops working for a few moments. By the time it reboots the moment is lost.

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  • Duncan20903

    Great slideshow attached to that article.

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  • claygooding

    I was searching my limited vocabulary for the perfect analogy to answer just how much stupid money can buy and the only thing that keeps coming to mind is the flea fucking the elephant and worrying about hurting the elephant,,,yup.that stupid.

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  • primus

    OT, I know, but what happened to the MPP blog? It’s been down for several days now.

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  • claygooding

    From thee great folks at ASA and LEAP!

    Why I am Attending the National Unity Conference
    February 15th, 2013
    Posted by Major Neill Franklin

    http://tinyurl.com/blny86l

    American’s for Safe Access (ASA) opened the eyes of this thirty-three year law enforcement veteran. Caught in the whirlpool of drug prohibition policy, prohibitionist law enforcement folks as I once was, forget the importance of maintaining an open mind. Unfortunately, “ group-think” is where most of us tend to feel comfortable.

    Until roughly four years ago, I knew virtually nothing of medical marijuana. I must say that I was somewhat skeptical of the claim for its medicinal properties. My knowledge of marijuana originated from two places, my experimentation as a teen in 1975 and from an enforcement perspective throughout my lengthy law enforcement career. Neither provided any meaningful insight to the medicinal properties or benefits of marijuana.

    One of the first people I met when I assumed the role of LEAP’s executive director was ASA’s executive director, Steph Sherer. People had told me of ASA and Steph, but it wasn’t until I met with Steph that I began to educate myself regarding all there is to learn of medical marijuana (properties, policies and patients).

    My interaction with ASA encouraged me to visit medical marijuana dispensaries in California where I met dispensary owners like Steve De Angelo and Debby Goldsberry. I toured Oaksterdam University where I met Richard Lee and Dale Sky-Jones. Educationally, I benefitted tremendously from my firsthand experience.”snip”

    Special thanks to these special people.

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  • MPP/Blog

    Rep. Diane Russell (D-Portland) is seeking to make Maine the third state in the country to legalize and regulate the adult use of marijuana. She is also highly versed in articulating all the pro legalize & regulate debate points.

    Thank you Senator Russell!

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    • Justin Auldphart

      I saw her bit on the show that night and she is a very calm, articulate spokesperson seemingly ready and able to combat the status quo types with logic and science…Maine seems to be pretty mellow when it comes to cannabis…even the conservative governor signed legislation that expanded the MMJ program with no outcry at all…My bet too, is that the County and other northern areas would welcome a chance to grow hemp…here’s hoping…

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      • Duncan20903

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        Maine law is so mellow with cannabis that the MDEA sends a lot of their caseload over to the Feds. I’m not sure how they get away with doing that legally but so far they have. Don’t for a second believe that you’re going to have your case adjudicated as a misdemeanor under State law if you get popped with 99 plants.

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  • Francis

    Speaking of impressive levels of stupidity…

    Tennessee Cops Harass Old Lady After Mistaking Buckeye Bumper Sticker for Pot Leaf Bumper Sticker

    If you thought the war on drugs couldn’t get any dumber, then you aren’t using your imagination. Last week, the former president of the Dallas-Fort Worth Ohio State Alumni Club was pulled over in Tennessee while driving from her mother-in-law’s funeral in Ohio back to Texas. The reason? Tennessee police mistook the Buckeyes sticker on her ride for a pot leaf sticker, and thought it meant she was trafficking drugs (because people do that).

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    • Duncan20903

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      That’s pretty darn cheesy Francis, inserting that item just above mine. I know good and well that it wasn’t there before I posted! (What do you mean, “refresh” the page?)

      BTW, where the heck have you been? darkcycle said that you’ve been tied up enforcing that darn law of yours but I told him that he’s crazy because it’s a self enforcing law. Anyway, did you bring the tofutti? Two scoops please!

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  • Duncan20903

    From the “what the heck do you mean it’s horse mint, not merrywanna?” category:

    Police Pull Over Ohio State Fan After Mistaking Buckeye for Marijuana Symbol

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    • primus

      OK, so bumper stickers are a form of protected free speech. The cops pulled her over ONLY because of the bumper sticker. Therefore, they breached her civil rights in so doing. The doofuses even had the stupidity to admit it. I hope she sues for many many millions of dollars and wins. I hope the ACLU takes her case. This is bullshit. Redneck Tennessee cops need to be shown the error of their stupid ways.

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      • Servetus

        And let that be a lesson to those who drive through Tennessee.

        For a real thrill, try driving through Utah with a Deadhead sticker on your bumper—then sue the crapola out of the bastards who pull you over and charge them with hating great music.

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        • I don’t recommend going back to 1974, living in very south Texas and driving a VW bus w/ CA plates and a One Oat Willie Onward Thru the Fog bumper sticker.

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        • darkcycle

          Utah is positively CRAWLING with Deadheads. Holy trust me.

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        • War Vet

          It was far worse to be one of William S. Burroughs’ friends driving through Oklahoma and getting life for a joint. If you drive around with a So and So for Sheriff sticker and ‘legalize it sticker’, the cops here won’t know what to do –they’ll just scratch their heads while you speed off. It’s like being that one goth band kid who played small town high school football: the jocks didn’t know whether to smack you on the butt in the showers for doing a good job or beat the fuck out of you. The best line of defense is to wear your ‘Vet Hat’ with your dog tags dangling in the mirror, while having military stickers on the bumper and a few old military items in the vehicles . . . cops don’t feel like their man enough to even ask you for a search . . . like there’s not enough Viagra in their system to give them the confidence to ask me for a search –even if I have a Doors or Dead shirt on while blaring Kottonmouth Kings or Brotha Lynch Hung over the two 12’s and 1000wt amp. The only time a HYPO ever had the courage to ask if he could search my car, it was as if I was the sexy Senior High school girl being asked out by that one guy in high school whose large stuffed animal collection in his room keeps everybody away . . . he wasn’t very audible nor confident when asking me if he could search . . . of course who wants the sexy teen girl that everybody wants, to say ‘no’ . . . I guess that’s why it was more like a comment than an actual request for a search? Sometimes it just works to grab on to your old Army uniforms leaning up against the passenger seat, while uttering the kind of screams a three year old gets when he cannot get a toy . . . most cops just refuse to even write you a ticket when they think ‘PTSD’ . . . no cop wants to think about his eyeball being eaten off just for writing a speeding ticket . . . cops are pretty much afraid to pull over vets now days –no cop wants to be seen as that guy who got his ass kicked by a long hair hippy fellow half his size . . . no cop could ever comprehend how his own gun came to be resting down on his own eyebrow while the angry driver is speaking Arabic: ‘Urja –Urja’.

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        • Servetus

          What’s needed is a vehicle outfitted with cameras, recorders, GPS, blackbox capabilities for recording stops and speed like the Tesla Model S, and instantaneous data transmission to a safe offsite server. All of it set up to operate according to state and federal laws. Call it the Sue-Mobile.

          Give the Sue-Mobile a profile, and use it to entrap cops who pull over motorists illegally. Make it available to a law firm of the type that specializes in this particular kind of lawsuit. For instance, there are law firms that send people they hire to go to restaurants, hotels, and other public venues in order to sue establishments for lack of handicap ramps and handicap parking. Clint Eastwood was once sued for big bucks by handicap lawyers for some businesses he owned in Carmel, and he went public on it because it pissed him off.

          Using the Sue-Mobile, the next time the police see a “Fuck the DEA” bumper-sticker on a hippie van, maybe they’ll think twice before pulling it over. It might just be some snake of a lawyer luring them into a courtroom showdown.

          As Dirty Harry would say: “…so, are you feeling lucky?”

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        • Duncan20903

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          Did Mr. Eastwood or his insurance company subsequently pay money to settle the suit? I’ll bet he (or it) did.

          Ambulance chasing lawyers provide a valuable service to our society and are just as needed as submarine bottom feeders are to our planet’s ecosystem. Sometimes making certain people pay is of significantly more importance than who gets paid.

          Iowa claims the right to pull anyone on a public roadway over for any reason whatever. As a matter of “public safety” you know.

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        • Servetus

          Mr. Eastwood won the lawsuit, but he still had to upgrade his property to meet legal standards.

          “I think he’s being Mr. Clint Eastwood ‘make my day’ Mr. Tough Guy,” said Sid Wolinsky, director of litigation services for Disability Rights Advocates in Oakland. “He could have avoided the cost of attorney fees by settling the case and put his money into hiring an architect.

          http://tinyurl.com/9we3tme

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    • Duncan20903

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      That’s pretty darn clever, disguising your meth as maple syrup. OK, that’s not saying much since I really don’t know what meth looks like unless it really is blue.
      ———- ———- ———- ———- ———-
      Nothing unusual in this one, except that they admitted weighing the root balls and didn’t mention that the grow op was “sophisticated”. Then again looking at the plants I guess they couldn’t bring themselves to use that word:
      Deputies shut down two marijuana grow houses

      I guess it isn’t a good idea to call 911 repeatedly when you have a grow. If 9 were 6 he’d have been fine.

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    • primus

      Proof once again of the stupidity of the public. Why not just go over and ask? Nope, call the cops, Ethel, they must be druggies. They’re younger than we are and we are too stupid to recognize what they are doing and too socially inept to talk to them. My friend’s theory is that when someone does something stupid like calling the cops for this, it should be legal to slap their face, open hand, as hard as you wish. When people like these walk down the street, everyone would know they are stupid by the bruising on their faces. Everyone would take that into account when dealing with them, and there would be less harm caused by them. This investigation cost several hundred, if not thousands of dollars for no reason except that the neighbors are stupid. SLAP. Next time, they might not be so quick to call the bulls in.

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      • Duncan20903

        It was the grower himself calling 911 in the article I linked. He claimed he was trying to dial 611 because his phone was broken.

        ———- ———- ———- ———- ———-

        I found out tonight that if you’re caught littering in Singapore that on the 3rd offense you have to wear a sign that says, “I am a litter lout” in addition to other sanctions. I also learned the word “lout”! It means “1.
        an awkward, stupid person; clumsy, ill-mannered boor; sabet; oaf.” OK, OK, I confess. I added one of those synonyms. I’ll give you one guess which.

        Not that the above is either here or there, I’m just working on a new strategy for when people say, “we should adopt the drugs policies of (insert name of authoritarian regime) those people don’t put up with that stuff.” Well great, if we’re going to adopt their legal code, we need to adopt their legal code. Singapore also has:

        1) Strict gun control. There are less than 800 licensed, privately owned guns in Singapore. They’re right, Singaporeans don’t fuck around. They use the death penalty for gun control law violations which are committed simultaneously with another crime that’s on a list. Mischief is one of the crimes on that list.

        2) Universal health care paid for by the taxpayers.

        3) Abortion on demand during the first two trimesters paid for by taxpayers as part of the universal health care plan mentioned in item 2. There’s no parental notification required.

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    • War Vet

      police work can be so sticky some times.

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    • Windy

      First error comes early in the piece:
      “The system will be designed in a way to prevent marijuana produced in Washington from being not sold in other states.”
      According to this marijuana from WA WILL be sold in other states and the system will make certain of it.

      So they plan to make private clubs subject to the (absolutely unconstitutional due to it being a violation of private property rights) “no smoking” law. Hmm, and I wonder if “in public view” includes on my front porch (which on a hot summer afternoon is the coolest spot in my yard)?

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      • divadab

        We shall see what comes of it. The problem that I see is that Gov Inslee is trying to square the circle – simultaneously trying to please vested prohibitionist interests and at the same time implement sane regulatory policies for something that should never have been prohibited in the first place. The problem with this is that prohibitionists are not sane – at least their ideas are not – based as they are on falsehood and unjust dominion and freedom-hating.

        As long as cannabis use is used by the powerful as a proxy for keeping “undesirables” under their boot prohibition will not end. Weird that we need a revolution to liberate the weed and thereby liberate ourselves.

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      • Duncan20903

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        Windy, would you do it naked? If not, probably not. Presuming you’re not an exhibitionist and/or don’t live in a clothing optional community. Of course if you were an exhibitionist you’d probably live in Oregon since public nudity is legal there.

        Around here there’s no smoking in private clubs because they have employees who need the protection from being “forced” to inhale 2nd hand smoke. No way they could be allowed to install some industrial grade exhaust systems or be required to get informed consent allowing the employee to choose to assume the risk or even hire tobacco addicts that want to smoke while they’re on the clock. What if those employees decided to quit using smoking tobacco? That’s the story and they’re sticking to it.

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  • Hope

    It’s Bloomberg. He’s had a lot of practice. Especially when it comes to cannabis.

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    • divadab

      and lying.

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    • Duncan20903

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      Mr. Bloomberg has talent, no doubt. But compact stupidity is a group effort. It’s like computer technology, the capability to increase the amount of stupidity in a limited amount of text doubles every 18 months (or whatever the correct time period) but it takes a lot of people with talent collaborating to accomplish that. This is very much a group effort.

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  • Duncan20903

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    Speaking of stupidity, are there really people stupid enough to actually think that telling the voters that they’re idiots who were tricked by a bunch of dimwitted wastoid high school dropouts on welfare who just want to get high on the taxpayer’s dime is a very smart strategy to convince those voters to approve codifying the prohibitionist’s personally preferred point of view? Gosh, the voters of Colorado and Washington weren’t just tricked by us pathetic, amotivational losers once, but twice. Go figure that one out.

    Well we’d better call Ripley’s. Because even as laughably absurd as it sounds, such people actually exist.
    Bill Gundy: Marijuana — medicine or recreation?

    Just FYI Mr. Gundy thinks that the answer is neither. I’ll bet you can find a two sentence except in his diet tribe that’s filled with an amazing amount of stupid, maybe even some extra stupid stupidity free of charge. No Virginia, there really is no such thing as too stupid to be alive.

    I hadn’t realized until today that Afroman ripped off Dr. Hook’s songwriter:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9zcLAUp5E0

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    • ouch… poor Mr Gundy. Don’t let your kids see that folks. It’s a bloodbath. The poor fellow has been sliced, diced and blended into oblivion. Good lord, Kleiman and Sabet are the best they’ve got. This piece is prolly avg for a prohib – we’ve seen worse and only the top tier excrementalists write well enough to do better.

      Calvina is AWOL from ink. The Semblers heave bags of cash over the fortification walls and don’t come out except for orchestrated, secure events.

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    • darkcycle

      I’d respond, but where do you begin? The guy is stupid….and snide. He’s his own best indictment.

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      • Duncan20903

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        The smart ones know it’s over. The average IQ of the active Know Nothing prohibitionist is crashing like the stock market in 1929, and we’re as short as flippin’ Jesse Livermore on Black Tuesday. Get out you’re umbrellas if you’re near any high buildings in D.C. because it’s going to start raining prohibitionists.

        Have you seen anything from Andrea Barthwell lately? John Walters only signed a letter about our 2012 referenda. Didn’t he actually show up in person in California in 2010? It appears that Mr. Walters has taken up a new career as a professional wrestler, “Hurricane” John Walters. I never knew that John Walters was just a stage name before today.

        It sure looks like he’s been using steroids. Did you know that they invented steroids for cattle? Heck, I saw 96% lean ground beef on sale at the grocery store the other day. It gave me a mental picture of some ripped cows in their pasture working out with dumbbells. Oh but those cow dumbbells remind me of what I was saying…a few months back when Senator Paul demanded testimony from Mr. Walters if he was using steroids to be competitive in his new job he just lowed “Noooo-ooo-ooo” and nonchalantly took another bite of grass.

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  • ezrydn

    Another STIPID Prohibitionist article. Cops show ignorance.

    http://goo.gl/lsa3p

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  • Morgan Freeman in “Driving Miss Cannabis”

    After spending some time on a few pro-legalization websites, it became clear to me that the substance of their stance -at least what they want you to believe is their pure-hearted motive- is that legalizing marijuana will first, and above all else, do no harm. And if that isn’t enough, they go on to say that marijuana legalization will save the world in so many ways, including reducing crime, bailing out the economy, and comforting the sick.

    On every point, they are absolutely wrong.

    And because their arguments are backed by nothing more than, at best, anecdotal evidence and, even worse, the face of a respected citizen or celebrity saying it, they get heard and believed. They are co-opting our citizens.

    It really is simple to refute their arguments with real evidence, whether it be pulled from the economic and social models of the alcohol and tobacco industries or the scientific-quality reports and decades-long studies by non-partisan think-tanks. It’d be simple, but they won’t listen. They won’t listen because, yes, it is boring! It is dry reading! It’s a lot of work…

    I’m going to address each of their arguments on this blog in the simplest, shortest, most commonsense way I can. No statistics (although they’re there), no stories, no political agenda. Just a real “ah-ha!” moment in hopes that it makes you dig deeper and come to, at the very least, an informed opinion… one not offered by Morgan Freeman who dismissively says we should just legalize it because we’ll make “zillions.”

    Today, I’m wondering how marijuana legalization would reduce crime…

    Morgan (nice work in Shawshank Redemption, by the way!), please answer me this:

    Marijuana advocates say that legalizing it will all but end this portion of the black-market, removing billions from the pockets of the drug cartel. Certainly, this would go a very long way to end the chaos in Mexico and reduce crime on American streets too. They say that taxing marijuana will, using your word, net zillions for the economy. They say that regulating it will keep it safe and out of the hands of our nation’s youth.

    Morgan, please show me a business model in which you see either the US government, mom-and-pop pot shops, or Big Tobacco (because they will be taking over, by the way) being able to produce marijuana cheaper, sell it cheaper, and provide it easier than a drug cartel.

    While you’ll feel good about yourself shopping at a high-end boutique store for your pot, the regulations, taxes, and other costs and concerns the now legal sellers have to contend with will immediately put the price so far out of reach from almost everyone else, those folks will keep funding those black-market operators. And now that we’ve legalized it, someone who wouldn’t have tried it in the past, just now might… user rates will rise, and so will the black-market economy as folks struggle to buy it cheaper to keep their high alive. Morgan, did you know that the black-market cigarette industry is huge? $50 billion a year? Do you see the absolute devastation tobacco has done to cigarette-smoking citizens? Their families? Our health care system? Are you willing to trade gang-on-gang violence today for another health pandemic tomorrow?

    Morgan, any tax, regulation or restriction at all will only cause the drug cartels to shrug and smile. Legalization will increase user rates (even if just a bit), and do nothing to steal any real part of those zillions in profit from the cartels. Any tax-revenue generated will go directly back into the costs to regulate the industry, enforce the tax laws, treat the abusers, handle drugged-driving incidents, provide an extra police presence near the stores to stop the other crimes that will skyrocket there, and on and on and on… All that without even mentioning that the United States, by treaty obligation, would have to create an entirely new agency to monitor and regulate the marijuana business. This new agency, by international law, Morgan, will need to be funded in the billions.

    And, Morgan, the second, if ever, Philip-Morris (who, by the way, is now the owner of several domain names with the word marijuana in them) comes close to the cartel’s bottom line, I wonder how the cartel might handle that. They’re very accustomed to dealing harshly with rival drug traffickers.

    Morgan, the only ones who will benefit from marijuana legalization are rich guys like you. You’ll feel high and mighty. Philip-Morris will make a fortune. The drug cartels will celebrate. The rest of us… the rest of us will pay.

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    • darkcycle

      Where did this appear? Howabout a linky?

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      • Duncan20903

        .
        .

        This is truly a happy day. We’re infested with trolls. Real, live, blistering idiot Know Nothing prohibitionist trolls. Don’t we have a can of Raid under the couch? I swear we did. Oh I’ll bet that the wiggle dude huffed it. Gosh I haven’t been this happy in a long time. I mean mother lovin’ happy happy joy joy happy.

        ———-

        I’m also pleased because SNL hasn’t made me laugh like last night’s episode in decades. The funniest goddamn thing I’ve seen this millenium…or even in my part of the 20th century. No wait, I forgot about the bass-o-matic. Oh oh, Earache My Eye too. Rats, I forgot about the the Black Knight, the MPFC Killer Rabbit, help help I’m being repressed…oh well shit, just strike “in my part of the 20th century” and replace with “since Ronald Reagan won on Election Day 1980.” Now it’s accurate.

        ‘Djesus UnCrossed’ – Jesus Rises From The Dead

        When you get to heaven, say ‘hi’ to my Dad” ~~ Jesus “the H is silent” Christ

        People who believe in the Good Fairy Jesus might be offended. Demental Discretion Advised.

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    • Morgan Freeman

      Thank you. You seem a little confused on some points, but at least you liked Shawshank. (Didn’t help that I had to carry that hack Tom Hanks for the whole damn movie.)

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      • Which points do I seem confused with? Give me a chance to respond…

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        • Duncan20903

          We’ve been looking for a resident troll for a long, long time and I hope you’ll consider assuming the position.

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        • Matt, It’s really quite a simple matter of economics.

          If your treatise was at all accurate, then we’d be purchasing our alcohol from the heirs of Al Capone. But nobody buys from moonshiners today, despite government regulations on alcohol and significant taxes.

          Even tobacco, which has outrageously high taxes in some states increasing the price 10-fold or more, has a relatively small grey market.

          You’ve completely ignored the costs specific to black market manufacture and distribution, as well as the fact that the vast majority of people prefer to buy legally, if given the opportunity.

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        • primus

          Yes, assume the position.

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        • a chance to respond? it’s the internet, we’ll be here tomorrow, next week… take your time.

          You should be made aware Matt that anti-prohibitionism is contagious and we cannot be held responsible for any spillage from the hard turns your thinking might take.

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    • Morgan Freeman

      How will legalizing cannabis reduce crime?
      http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/arrests/index.html
      Drug arrests comprise -and- http://www.cesar.umd.edu/cesar/county/statewide/UCR_State_Percentages.pdf
      Simple, Matt. I’ll be kind and Cherry pick the year 2004 for you. That year marijuana arrests comprised 59.5 percent of all drug arrests. A five year low. 62% of those arrests were for simple possession. That year drug arrests comprised 15.5% of all arrests nation wide. So…what happens to the National arrest rate when crimes of simple possession are eliminated?? The rate of Marijuana arrests overall?
      The statistics are easy and you can break them out all by yourself (okay, YOU may need a middleschooler with a math book).
      What could POSSIBLY incite rational adults to pay 10 to fifteen dollars a gram for a commodity that is no more expensive to produce than an organic tomatoe?
      What a mystery….Let me introduce you to something called the “Black Market Premium”. The only reason cannabis (I prefer that term, it sounds much more respectable, don’t you think?) costs what it does today is because it is PROHIBITED. When pricing a commodity, a business man uses his cost data AND his risk data in figuring the price. If a farmer has to figure on one bad year out of three, you had better believe you are also paying for that bad year when you buy your produce at the store. Otherwise, as soon as it fails to rain, your farmer can’t pay his bills and goes out of business. The same applies in the business of dealing drugs on the black market. The significant risk of a long jail stay is INCLUDED in the price you pay. If it wasn’t, it would be hardly worth it, now would it?
      The drug cartels won’t be smiling. Because the legal merchants won’t have to worry about paying for guns and bodyguards and armored limos. The costs of doing business like that are too high. Much better (and cheaper….and SAFER) to just pay a few dozen lawyers and buy a couple of congressmen.
      I wonder why we don’t see Coors employees beheaded by Budwieser employees, don’t you? Just makes no damn sense. All that violence during prohibition….just…gone. Mystery, huh?
      Well, I have an early call on the Universal lot, so I have to run. You just keep on trying to do the right thing, Matt. Maybe the right thing will occur to you one day.

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      • darkcycle

        Wow. Morgan Freeman. Just….wow. Loved you in “Driving Miss Daisey”.
        Whodathunkit????

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      • You haven’t convinced me with this. The legal merchants will indeed have to pay for guns and bodyguards, etc. Theirs will be call security guards at the stores (which no doubt will be required by any new law/regulation). They’ll also have to add on the tremendous tax (local, state, and… I’d imagine federal) that will be required. They’ll also have to pay for the quality and safety testing of the product, as will be required by the FDA. And on and on and on. If you haven’t heard, the plan in Colorado and Washington is to tax it very, very high for two reasons. One, to try to make all that money that was promised in order to save the economy, and, two, to make the price point cross the line of the demand point in such a way that it discourages increased use.

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      • Pete, the black market cigarette business is huge! 50 billion dollars a year. It’s one of the top crimes listed by the UNODC. 40% of all cigarette boxes found thrown out on the streets of chicago have no tax stamps, which means, in Chicago illinois, for example, almost half the market takes place illegally.

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        • Duncan20903

          .
          .

          Citation please. You’ve got to provide 3rd party back up for your claims if you want to be our troll. Insisting that you’re correct is simply nothing more than mental masturbation.

          Do you mean $50 billion world wide? If your saying that’s in the U.S. the assertion is laughable. Regardless, can you show me 60,000 dead bodies generated by the gray market tobacco trade? I’ve only got to use part of one Country to do that. A very small part.

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        • Matt – there’s no doubt that a lot of cigarettes are sold with tax avoidance, but it’s much less of a problem than illegal drug black market. The cigarette black market is more a matter of grossly incompetent regulation than it is related to legalization.

          I would bet that almost every one of those cigarette boxes found without a tax stamp was legally produced, unlike illicit drugs. Cigarette criminals are taking advantage of the vast imbalances in regulation (buying in one state and selling in another, or buying cigarettes destined for foreign markets and selling them illegally here). These problems could be easily fixed with a competent regulation scheme, but nobody’s interested in doing that politically.

          I’ll agree that if Illinois decides to charge a $50 per gram tax on marijuana and Indiana charges $2 per gram, then there’s going to be a lot of diversion. That isn’t an argument against legalization, it’s an argument against stupidity in regulation.

          If, however, states set a tax scheme that merely brings legal marijuana end-user cost up to, or slightly above, the cost of currently illicit marijuana, then people will flock to the legal marijuana. Why would anyone buy pot of uncertain pedigree from someone on a street corner if you can go into a store and see and compare various strains and see a certificate saying that all pot sold there has been checked for mold and grown without pesticides?

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      • And trust me, I really do love you guys, love your passion… but just disagree. I wish you would tell me what would stop the black market. These cartels can make it cheaper and better and get it to us with ease. If I could buy my weed from a store for 300 an ounce or from a dealer at 300 a pound and the quality is generally the same (and it is except it doesn’t have a cool name)… why wouldn’t I?

        And one last question, because this seems to be missed. I’m betting that legalization/taxation will do little more than give all our citizens with indoor grows the freedom to grow, sell to their friends and their friends and so on, and evade taxes. That’s what’s going to happen… so there goes the money that supposed to save the economy. And now, we’ve got a new breed of tax police to pay for to enforce these laws, and the cartel just keeps on smiling.

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        • primus

          OK, you seem like a nice guy, so I will take the time to help you understand where your logic goes off the rails. It is, as MF above stated, economics. Let us examine the beer market as an example, because as far as I can tell, it is the closest analogy we have. Beer can be legally brewed by any citizen, in amounts which would render that person blotto for the entire year. The cost of brewing in the home is a fraction of the cost of buying in a store, yet most people do not home brew, instead they buy the mass produced product, and nobody seeks out their home brewing friends to obtain beer. The fact is the quality and potency of home made beer is not as consistent and the home brewer’s effort is considerable. Home brewers I know still buy beer in the store because their home made product becomes boring, and they want a change. All are pleased to offer me a beer when I visit, but none sell any.

          There is the mass produced dreck which is sold for a low price and many people drink that even though the quality is not so great, but at least the quality and the alcohol is consistent.
          We have the premium beers which are higher quality though not higher alcohol content, sold at a higher price. Some people only buy this type, others buy it for a special occasion.
          We have the craft brewers who brew a very high quality beer which is different from the mainstream, sometimes has a much higher alcohol content, and this beer is the most expensive and only a few people are willing to pay the price.
          The brewer pays the same tax on the cheap stuff as any other beer. Here, the tax is based on alcohol content; less alcohol, less tax, more alcohol, more tax. Again, hardly anyone goes for the high test beer, and it’s not the cost that keeps them away, it is the kick.

          Once cannabis is relegalized, (yes, it was legal at one time)there will be little of it grown in the US or Canada except for hemp. The cheap labor and warm climate in Mexico, Colombia etc. will let them undercut us. The cost of production will be about $1 per gram for the regular gage, the high gage will cost a bit more, say $1.25 per gram. The super duper high gage might cost as much as $1.50 per gram wholesale. Cannabis is light and would be shipped in the same way as pharmacies receive drugs, so assume the cost of shipping adds $1 per gram. If we assume a doubling of the price in taxes, we get to $3 per gram for regular, $3.50 for midgage, and $4 for high test delivered to the store for sale. Add on a profit margin for the merchant and we reach perhaps $5, $5.50 and $6 per gram. This narrow profit will come about through competition, same as the beer market. This is far lower than street prices and will undercut the cartels. They will not be able to meet these prices, especially as the cops will be after them, and they will also be brought down on tax evasion charges as Al Capone was. The dealer will not be offering cannabis at $300 per pound to compete.

          Growing indoors currently costs around $3 per gram, so how is that going to compete with $5-6 legal pot? How will it be marketed after the illegal market collapses? If the seller is to undercut the legal price, he makes no profit and risks arrest. That combination is much more of a deterrent than the current situation where illegal pot is selling for somewhere around $8-15 per gram, most around $10 and there is a vibrant illegal marketplace at work. Currently there is enough profit to make growing for sale tempting, and growing for self an obvious choice. Following repeal, the only way for domestic growers with indoor hydro to compete is to find a way to cut costs. This might come about by mechanizing, using lower cost, lower quality nutrients etc. In a competitive industry, the least expensive way to produce the desired product will prevail, but all will be legal and regulated. There will be a few home growers growing as a hobby, and none will be selling. Most people will take the easy route and buy the commercial pot. They will buy the good stuff for special occasions, and the rich will only buy the good stuff. No matter which they buy, they pay taxes. There is a beer for the poor, the middle class and the rich. There will likewise be cannabis for the poor, middle class and rich, and the price will be somewhat lower. What could be more democratic and egalitarian than that?

          As to needing security guards at the store, that is not going to happen any more than there are security guards in supermarkets, pharmacies and liquor stores. If you live in a dangerous area where all stores have bars on the windows and security guards, then the store that sells cannabis will need them too, not because of cannabis but because of the area. If they are located in a mall or other place where stores don’t need those things, they won’t either.

          The grey market in cigarettes is not huge outside certain cities because the cost of distribution and chance of arrest increase with distance. I also believe you have somewhat overstated the size of that grey market. Of course if there is a huge discrepancy in taxation between adjacent jurisdictions where distance is short, there will spring up a market to exploit that difference. This is not a natural feature of the marketplace but a function of taxation. It should also be noted that with cigarettes and alcohol in today’s grey market, the products have all been produced under strict quality controls, the product is standardized and has the least potential for harms to the user. They have simply been diverted prior to taxation, or moved to where taxes are lower. There are no more blind blues singers because alcohol prohibition caused most of them, and we never hear of someone whose death was caused by contaminated alcohol. When alcohol was relegalized, the blindings and deaths stopped. This will be the same for the other drugs, the same as was found with the drug alcohol–harms will be reduced.

          I trust these comments address your concerns. For further information of a factual nature, I suggest http://www.drugwardistortions.org, http://www.drugwarfacts.org or the book Marijuana Myths Marijuana Facts by Zimmer and Morgan. Once you have absorbed my comments and read these sources, you too will become a profreedomist like the rest of us.

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      • And… the cartels today are very, very, very different than the amateur that was Al Capone and organized crime back then. We’re not dealing with a criminal element, we’re a dealing with an international organization that controls countries behind the scenes.

        If I were to concede that they just decided to stop the pot part of their business, they still have everything else. They don’t go away. Therefore, there is no savings in police costs. So regardless, that argument is gone. But, they won’t stop selling pot. The only thing that will happen is our indoor grows will flourish. It’ll be the indoor grows by our friends that will become the new criminal group because they’ll not only sell bulk to the stores, but they’ll have a very lucrative side business too – one in which they won’t be keeping books or paying taxes. They’ll become the enemies of the store owners (who, by the way, will be Altria and Big Tobacco).

        Guys, you’ve got us in a jam. Nothing will change other than you’ll be able to what? Smoke weed in your yard without a black helicopter swooping in to arrest you?? Nothing will change for the better. The only thing now is we will have to worry about increased use/abuse (maybe…) and any cigarette-like health pandemics. Believe me, when Altria takes over, they’re gonna load your pot with some nice additives to keep you coming back over and over. They’ll market joints with a little lower THC so you can just keep a level buzz over the course of the day. You’ll be barely high through the day, stoned at night, but constantly smoking. Your lungs will probably really do good… Public health crisis.

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        • darkcycle

          Now it sounds like you’re trying to convince yourself.
          Security guards are paid minimum wage. And they aren’t expected to die or kill for their employers. You also only need one per store, not nine of them in an armored Suburban to follow you around 24 hours a day. ….survey says….Not a legitimate comparison.
          Quality and safety testing is cheap. My product is quality and safety tested by the dispensary where it’s distributed. Adds pennies to the cost, but the information is value added. I think that the Tobacco producers are fooling themselves if they think an industrial model is going to be easy to apply to cannabis. It doesn’t lend it’self to industrial agrigulture, and people show a strong preferance for an organic product. They aren’t moving into a vacuum, either. The market for marijuana is saturated. There isn’t enough demand to take all the supply. Growers in No.Cal. can’t sell their crops, and concentrated extracts are as common as raw cannabis now, so that fear is kinda unfounded.
          And can you explain how the Cartels are in any way different from the rum runners in Capone’s day? I’ll give you one thing….they’re sure more primative. I saw video of them using a Trebuchet…a medeival siege engine to launch bales over the border.
          “Guys, you’ve got us in a jam. Nothing will change other than you’ll be able to what? Smoke weed in your yard without a black helicopter swooping in to arrest you??” PRECISELY. No Swat team to kick in your door (they’re kinda expensive, too) and shoot your dog, or your child. No insane prohibition on an herb that kills no one. No crazy laws destroying the lives of 800,000 Americans a year. Laws that can simultaneously strip you of your house, all of your possessions,your civil rights- AND make you ineligeble for even paltry government assistence. (Kevvie Sabet’s “third way?” He’d rather they be an underclass of untouchables)
          All of the scaaaary things there are a result of prohibition. They don’t occur in legal, regulated markets. Think that the tobacco companies should not be allowed in to the market? That’s something we can REGULATE (in a legal market, that is. Good luck with regulating the black market).

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        • darkcycle

          Seriously, though. Thanks for stopping in and sharing your concerns with us on the couch. It’s good to have that other perspective, and it’s truly valuable to our efforts. Gives us a chance to add polish before we head out into the wide world of the MSM.
          Hope to see you again soon. Maybe even regular-like…if you’re up for it. We’re mostly a polite bunch.
          You can sit over there, in that empty seat, right next to Mr. Wiggles. Watch the sticky spot.

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        • darkcycle

          Hyperbole isn’t an argument. Look ,marijuana is the Cartel’s biggest cash crop. They can’t grow the cocaine, they’re middle men there. Transportation and marketing. Any businessman can tell you it’s vertical integration (today’s euphamism for “a monopoly”). That’s where the profit is.
          If Whole Foods suddenly had to stop selling Organic food, they may be able to stay in business, but they will take a real big hit to their bottom line.

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        • primus

          You still don’t get it. Prohibition is the problem, and by clumping all the ‘drugs’ together, the problem is promulgated. What is needed is a thorough examination of all the ‘drugs’ as to their effects, both societal and individual, and the method of distribution for each should be tempered by that knowledge. To blanket prohibit an entire class of substances on the basis of hysteria and hyperbole is folly of the first order. That is what we have been subjected to for the past 100 or so years. It has led us to the mess we have. The approach we currently use is counterproductive. It is time for a new approach. To ignore the arguments for change is to make things worse, not better. Grow up, doubt the ‘common knowledge’ and think for yourself, if you can. Then we can have an adult conversation. If you continue to ignore facts, truth and common sense, you are irrelevant.

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        • and none of what you say Matt is reason for cannabis to be illegal. You do know the reasons why cannabis is illegal, right? Does it have to do w/ science or people turning into bats and Mescans going bat shit crazy and slaughtering their families while high on weed?

          I take it you’re not a big fan of letting the market decide the worth or worthlessness of a product? Because the market has decided. It’s a hugely popular product w/ a huge market.

          And really? Armed guards? In a legal market? Gosh I have yet to see an armed guard at the liquor stores or the local breweries like Ninkasi here in Oregon. In fact I can go to Ninkasi, Steelhead, McMenamin’s (and many more)… and enjoy a great meal w/ great beer knowing I’m safe from gangstas and Prohibition driven violins.

          Methinks you’re stretching a lot more than us.

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        • Duncan20903

          Keep coming back Moe! It works if you work it!! Thanks for sharing!!!

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        • Duncan20903

          .
          .

          BTW darkcycle, you’re a rat bastard for stealing my sticky spot joke. Oh never mind, you couldn’t have know that it was a purposeful set up and all in all I don’t mind playing the stooge.

          Let me ask you something. Are you sure the wiggle dude is still alive after huffing that can of Raid? I sure haven’t seen him move in days and he used to snore like a running tugboat engine when he was asleep. I’ve been meaning to check his pulse for a couple of days but haven’t had a chance to do that. [drumroll][rimshot]

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        • darkcycle

          What can I say? Great minds think alike…

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  • ACTION ALERT: The Ending Federal Marijuana Prohibition Act of 2013
    http://tinyurl.com/buww7oj

    Great idea here.

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  • Quit/Before/You/Start/Winning

    Another Lottery Victim

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