Legalization models

A note to those who now seem anxious about large-scale commercial marijuana businesses…

The vast majority of advocates for legalization would have been happy with any legitimate legalization model that would allow responsible adults to purchase a choice of marijuana strains legally.

It could have been the coffee-shop model, or the state-run store model, or the non-profit model. We would have been happy with any of those.

Where were you then? We would have worked with you to create a different, legitimate model. If I recall right, you were saying that legalization wasn’t viable, or that we didn’t know enough to legalize, or that legalization was the wrong way to go, or that we just had to be patient.

And the thing is, even though we’re pissed at you for being an obstructionist instead of a positive force, we would still work with you if you wanted to try to push for a different kind of approach in another state (after all, there are 48 more options to show the value of other models).

If you’re serious about it, work on that instead of complaining ad nauseam about the unfettered capitalism on display in Washington and Colorado.

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28 Responses to Legalization models

    • Duncan20903 says:

      I’m going to leave those two in your capable hands Doug. But that’s only because I have little interest beyond an unexplainable desire to bring in a crop of papaver somniferum.

  1. Scotty says:

    Captain! Legalization Modelling has Shorted the Circuits! It’s Bloody Unsustainable! Core Fusion Pulses indicate imminent detonation! Spock! Get that Vulcan Carcass down here and we’ll fabricate a Catch-Can for this dripping Legaleze!

  2. darkcycle says:

    Yes…and really, we’re Americans. And the idea that Americans are afraid of big business is laughably absurd. We may carp about it’s undue influence , but that is literally how we do EVERYTHING. From Airplanes to Tomato farming, big business is the model. Capitalism is the time honored, legally enshrined and Officially certified AMERICAN WAY.
    To listen to Kev-kev and Patrick, you’d think they were socialists. Or French. Or something.

    • claygooding says:

      I go for the or something,,I know a couple of French I want to keep as a friend.

      My thoughts on a legalization go back to the last actual research done on marijuana use and it’s impact on society,,the report and recommendations that Nixon threw in the trash,,anyone can grow their own and can sell/give 1 ounce to any adult,,then let the big business model find it’s own profits level to exist within the private market,,if they can produce as good or better pot for less,,bring it on,,otherwise the government can take those “monopoly” schemes and stick them up the government’s ass,,they can just continue building prisons and spending money until they go broke.

      • primus says:

        First year economics; guns or butter. If you spend on guns you don’t have resources to buy butter, and vice versa. There is also a truism of economics that when the rate of taxation rises past a certain level, IIRC it is somewhere south of 20%, that becomes a real drag on the economy as a whole. Rates of taxation are far over 20% all considered. IOW they are overtaxing us, which slows the economy, then using the money for the drug war instead of education, health care infrastructure replacement etc. What we the people will be left with is a sluggish economy without the resources to fix itself because they have been wasted. This is totally predictable, and totally preventable. Only sociopaths would support such.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          How the heck would people get butter in the first place if they didn’t hunt down and shoot wild cows? You need guns to do that you know. Did you think they’re just going to give up their butter if you ask them all nice and polite? Don’t be naive…just look what gun control has caused over in India! You can’t swing a dead cat over there without stepping in cow poop! Not only that but there’s not even a stick of butter to be had anywhere in that country. What about the children? Don’t you even care that if a children falls into a large enough pile of bovine excrement that it can drown?

        • primus says:

          @Duncan; Ghee, I don’t know about that.

    • Jean Valjean says:

      Patrick “I’m for the little guy” Kennedy… cue hysterical laughing…

  3. Smack says:

    I still don’t understand why people want to throw people in jail for smoking something that is legal.

    The argument seems to be that the law is the law. But if law changes, suddenly the law is what some folk think it should be.

    Accepting that your neighbors used drugs which are unapproved doesn’t make them bad people. Nothing you do, in fact, makes them bad people. You can try to criminalize them, and that worked for a long time. They aren’t bad people. The odd thing here is that many who make the argument suddenly are fine if the FDA approves something. And yet they yell about government intrusion about personal choices.

    Let me know when temazipam needs to be regulated like pot.

  4. Dave in IL says:

    Well said, Pete.

    I’ve grown really tired of this line of argument already and I’m a damn democratic socialist. I’d be pleased to see more worker-owned marijuana co-ops pop up, but I’m not going to spend a lot of time pissing and moaning about that right now. This will only embolden the enemy(prohibitionists). At this time of progress, we need a broad-based movement to end this horrific drug war, which is the health of the capitalist state.

  5. Ben says:

    Hear fucking hear.

    Sabet & friends aren’t going to win any friends railing against capitalism anyway.

    I hope no one is holding their breath waiting for the prohibitionists to change their tunes. By the time they do, it’ll be too late to influence the outcome.

  6. Windy says:

    A couple threads back I posted two interesting articles, here is one that questions the conclusions of one of those articles:

    • claygooding says:

      Wendy,,production costs would be appx 50¢ per pack is what I got from the article,,which is about right if worldwide legalization occurred with farmers raising hemp crops with names like Northern Lights and Panama Red,,since the seeds and fibers in marijuana are the same as any other hemp plant the low thc industrial hemp would disappear from the face of the planet,,,who would lock themselves out of the most profitable part of the plant?
      Eventually you won’t see any buds in a retail outlet,,the product will be either rolled joints,pipe/vaporizer cut or perhaps even some hash,,all will have THC content and a strain name,,,,and not one seed in the product but you can bet it was grown for all three market,,
      Eventually the myth of seeds destroying thc will die,,prolly about the time we get the gateway theory killed off. You grow good marijuana with seeds you still get good marijuana. And a Kansas field so huge it takes bulldozers to work it can grow a lot of weed.
      As the demand for hemp products(especially seed products) rise the supply of weed is going to flood the world with some awesome shit.

      PS:the edit fix is working great Pete,,,now I got time to load my pipe and reread it three or four times and miss something.

      PS,,I believe there will always be a market for good buds but the “Budwisher©” brands will be as noted above,,and only time will tell what the price of good bud will be,,not anything as it is now I am sure.

      • Windy says:

        I prefer those buds over any other form of ingesting cannabis. But I agree that farmers will come to the conclusion “why grow industrial hemp when I can get ALL the benefits of hemp AND all the benefits of marijuana, and all the profits from both, by growing high quality Sativa or Indica”.

  7. “Legalization models” – Hey! I’m one of those. I never thought we’d get a headline here.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      I was really disappointed when I noticed there weren’t any half nekkid girls in this entry. I was kind of mad at Pete for the deceptive advertising. I’m glad at least one showed up!

  8. DdC says:

    Hemp for Mudslides ecp
    * Using Industrial Hemp
    * Hemp
    * Hemp for Victory voices/hemp-victory
    * Cal EMA Puts Pressure on FEMA
    * The Curious Case of Hemp
    * The Green Energy of Hemp Offers a Solution to Our Ecological Crisis
    * An Inconvenient Truth about Industrial Cotton
    * Hemp Facts 420magazine
    * Mudslide traps cars on U.S. 24 west of Manitou Springs 07/10/2013
    * California Industrial Hemp Farming Act Becomes Law
    * Groundwork Laid, Growers Turn to Hemp in Colorado
    * High on Hemp ecp
    * Hemplastic or Fossil Fools Crud ecp
    * Fire fire on the mountain! ecp
    * Hemp “Eats” Chernobyl Waste, Offers Hope For Hanford ecp

    The Hemp plants drop their leaves when they are mature, which reintroduces minerals and nitrogen back to the soil. Hemp’s deep roots offer an important contribution; they anchor and aerate the soil to control erosion and mudslides. When Hemp is used as a rotation crop, the crops that follow it are stronger and healthier.
    ~Using Industrial Hemp

    How Colorado Disrupted the Drug War
    Thom Hartmann, 25. March 2014 u2b

    David Sirota, PandoDaily / Back to Our Future, joins Thom Hartmann. Thanks to the world’s first legal marijuana marketplace – Colorful Colorado is a whole lot greener these days. So what can other states learn from Colorado about making legal marijuana a reality?

    How Colorado disrupted the Drug War
    By David Sirota January 7, 2014

    “If marijuana use rates increase among adults, that’s not going to be a significant problem because marijuana is not associated with major health and safety problems,” he says. “This is the key point: people should not necessarily think of adults using marijuana as a bad thing. People who are scared of marijuana think all use is abuse, and we are trying to get them to understand that there is a very big difference. Some people use marijuana much like they have a glass of wine. It’s not abuse and it’s not a problem.”
    MPP communications director Mason Tvert
    and 3D Cannabis Center’s David Martinez

    Carmen Yarrusso, 23 Mar 2014 Telegraph, The (Nashua, NH)

    …that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss…

    Employers Can Fire You For Using Marijuana
    Colorado — Brandon Coats, a quadriplegic medical marijuana patient from Colorado, was fired by Dish Network in 2010 for taking his medicine while off duty, in the privacy of his own home.

    Boycott Companies Enabling Profit for Pisstasters!
    Metabolites do not mean impairment. So WTF?
    State Supreme Courts have ruled Reality is Arbitrary!

    More creepy slimy weasel rulings for people who just can’t accept cannabis relieving their seizures and spasms. Or an alternative choice to booze and pills. A State Religion of spoiled sports on an overzealous crusade that the world will end if we acknowledge doing what we have been doing anyway. How can they let Americans suffer, now that it is legal in some states, as far as state enforcement. The corporations using these methods of filtering out users by denying the laws of physics and medicine. Metabolites are not a measure of impairment. They will disclose a legal patient is using. That should be private, between the patient and doctor. Somehow the courts feel a need to disregard. No telling what else anyone can discover snooping through urine. Vengeance and profiteers selling prohibition services and profiteers keeping competition off of the market shelves. So blatant a violation of civil and human rights. What any kid would say is wrong to hurt sick people. Or those in wheelchairs and the poor seem to be the primary targets. Backed by the church and President. Obama’s dereliction of duty to remove it in all forms as a controlled substance. This illogical act is wrong. To force what is humanly impossible, as a condition of remedy, a Catch 22 is not real America, just fakes. Those who refuse to see these legislated lies as wrong. Are not looking out for any Constitution, Free Enterprise or Common Decency. The self appointed moralists ranting the same demons are in real time flesh and blood, causing great harm to American citizens. To permit this is by all points, a treasonous act. You leave your fingerprints, they steal your piss.

    But Rabshakeh said, Hath my master sent me to thy master and to thee, to speak these words? Hath he not sent me to the men that sit upon the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?
    ~ Isaiah-36-12, 2-Kings-18-27, KJV

    Oxford Dictionaries, Definition of piss in English
    Or more appropriate, Pissevorkoster “pisstaster” in German or pissa-prova in Swedish.

  9. Servetus says:

    Big Marijuana theorists base their marketing predictions on the normal trends in capitalism, that big companies eat the small companies leaving no small companies. Then, according to certain prohibitionists, Big Marijuana is supposed to imitate the marketing stupidity of the tobacco companies by marketing to children and getting itself sued into legal oblivion in state and federal courts.

    Another prohib group says the ease of growing one’s own marijuana, or starting a new grow-op and creating a new marketing strategy, will always undercut the Big Marijuana model, and thus decrease or eliminate tax revenues.

    Given the prohibitionist and the circumstances, one or the other model is used to claim that legalization will not produce benefits legalizers have identified. The debate is a red herring designed to discourage legalization. It cannot stop legalization once it’s occurred, as speculations get replaced by reality, and reality is the prohibitches’ biggest enemy.

  10. Duncan20903 says:


    Isn’t the average regular here old enough to remember when it was generally accepted that “big tobacco” would never lose a lawsuit? You know that they never would have if they hadn’t been idiots. Does anyone know why the frack they did the research that they decided to keep secret? You know, the research that proved that they knew that frequent, habitual tobacco smoking was a significant health risk and obviated their customers’ assumption of risk?
    The people that I’d really like to see taken out to the woodshed to be taught a lesson in reality are those annoyingly shrill jackasses that run Big Hysterical Rhetoric:
    Selling a Poison by the Barrel: Liquid Nicotine for E-Cigarettes
    By A. Moron on March 23, 2014
    Gosh I just love those self righteous opinions of how selfish people are because they’ve started to use vaporizers to pollute the air with second hand smoke. Most days I’m in awe and have a profoundly deep felt personal gratitude for the invention of the Internet. But other days I think that I could have lived the rest of my life much more happily if I had never realized the true potential depth of human stupidity.

  11. Crut says:

    Powerful ammunition for our side. The End of the Addict

    I was going to skim the article, but it is so relevant, that I couldn’t tear my eyes away. I don’t fully agree with her conclusions (why not try {Other list of stigmatized terms} instead), but the general direction she describes is much more correct than the way society has been heading for a while.

  12. claygooding says:

    Well,,,it looks as if Calvina Fay has jumped on board with Drug Policy Futures after the admission that marijuana was being legalized in the US. It must have been more than she could take,,she is now “The Conservative Woman” and she is spreading skewed statistics and false science to the citizens in GB and Europe instead of the US.

    Clapping and cheering allowed.

    Calvina Fay: Why we must say no to drug legalisation

    Marihuana is particularly harmful to young people – typically started in adolescence it can adversely impact on the developing brain. It is a ‘gateway’ drug and the scientific evidence of its harms mounts daily.

    The legalization and normalization of marijuana in the USA – where its use and its diversion to young people are rising – creates grave concerns for drug policy.

    It is in face of the danger of dramatically increased drug use posed by the legalising lobbyists, that Drug Policy Futures, was launched last week. This new alliance represents over 35 organizations from 21 countries and five continents and includes the Drug Free America Foundation.

    It is a critically important initiative. I am delighted that so many like-minded groups have come together to promote drug-free environments and to support the associated social norms of responsibility and restraint. I am looking forward to collaborating with Drug Policy Futures to support the international drug treaties and importantly the Convention of the Rights of the Child. Its purpose, ‘to protect children from the illicit use of narcotic drugs and psychotropic substances’ is critical. We need to be quite clear that any attempt to legalise drugs contravenes this most fundamental of international commitments.

    But when yo go to the website,,of the goals listed are honest,,they want prohibition of marijuana ended:

    Drug policies should prevent initiation of drug use.
    It does not take prohibition to do that,,in fact prohibition insures access to drugs.

    Drug policies must respect human rights (for users and non-users alike) as well as the principle of proportionality.
    Proportionality? Isn’t that admitting that prohibiting marijuana because it may only harm a small percentage of the population an unreasonable response because it criminalizes over 90% of the users that will not be effected by marijuana use?

    Drug policies should strike a balance of efforts to reduce the use of drugs and the supply of drugs.
    After trillions of dollars and millions of lives destroyed throwing more money in this hole is insane.

    Drug policies should protect children from drug use.
    Parents have to protect their own children,,it is not the states responsibility to protect the children anymore than it is to protect all citizens from nuts that actually think they can control other human beings.

    Drug policies should ensure access to medical help, treatment and recovery services.
    Access too but not necessarily mandated,,if a person is addicted to coffee and he is not harming society because of it why wouldn’t the same apply to anything else?

    Drug policies should ensure access to controlled drugs for legitimate scientific and medical purposes.
    That defeats marijuana prohibition hands down,,it is medicine.

    Drug policies should ensure that medical and judicial responses are coordinated with the goal of reducing drug use and drug-related consequences.
    The most effective method of removing drug related consequences is to reduce the harms drugs do because criminals manufacture and distribute them,,,duuhhhh

    • allan says:

      Cue coronet:

      Calvina: “Wa wa, wa wa waaa. Wa! Wa wa waa wa, wa wa wa, wa.”
      (etc etc etc)

      Cue gurgling bong.

      close up of Snoopy, red eyes, smoke drifting from his mouth…

    • B. Snow says:

      WONDERFUL! (In that she’ll be gone for awhile, maybe we can figure how to lock her out)

      AND, (/sarcasm) -” Wonderful…” Just watch that whorse try to come back with scarey tales of = OMG, OMG, OMG, Everyone -you must be very, very afraid of this ‘New’ (and she’ll be wrong = It ain’t new by a damn sight!) Evil, Deadly “Skunk”-Marijuana I found out about in England…”

      “Quick – Hide the chitlins, it’s coming right at us! Only a matter of time now, The end is nigh…”
      “Lets all pray that just the Hippies will go to Hell and all us prude/judgmental souls will blissfully enter the Pearly Gates, Triumphantly & Cocky.”

      Maybe we’ll luck out and (after seeing her natural self & attitude), Someone will do the whole world a favor & shove her under a big, red, Double-Decker!

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