Open Thread

I’m in Iowa visiting my Mom, who just celebrated her 91st birthday. She’s a regular weekly reader of the Rant and also enjoys reading the comments of those on the couch.

bullet image ‘Seatbelt Checkpoints’ to Search Cars Without Warrants, Make Drug Arrests

The Beckley, West Virginia Police Department set up a “seatbelt checkpoint,” which resulted in several drug arrests on July 2.

The Beckley police claimed they did the checkpoint to inform residents and raise awareness of a new seatbelt law that goes into effect on July 9.

However, police brought K-9 drug-sniffing dogs to the checkpoints, which were not needed for seatbelt education.

Another example of law enforcement personnel purposely mocking and bypassing the law for their own benefit.

bullet image Related, but perhaps more hopeful…

Blood, spit and cops: Nationwide drug roadblocks raise eyebrows

It’s not just in Alabama. The roadblocks are part of a national study led by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which is trying to determine how many drivers are on the road with drugs or alcohol in their systems. Similar roadblocks will be erected in dozens of communities across the nation this year, according to the agency.

It’s been going on for decades. Previous surveys date to the 1970s. The last one was run in 2007, and it included the collection of blood and saliva samples without apparent controversy, sheriff’s spokesmen in both Alabama counties said.

But this time, it’s happening as the Obama administration struggles to explain revelations that U.S. spy organizations have been tracking phone and Internet traffic. Against that backdrop, the NHTSA-backed roadblocks have led to complaints in Alabama about an intrusive federal government.

Nice. Perhaps the country is actually getting ready to have a real conversation about these issues.

After all, as we’ve said here often, there are direct connections between government overreach in the so-called war on terror, and the war on drugs.

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88 Responses to Open Thread

  1. Howard says:

    I was in the Yucatan recently and there were police checkpoints as you entered towns/cities of a certain size (not small villages). Police with semi-automatic weapons divert you out of traffic randomly, supposedly looking for narcotics and/or firearms. My wife and I were pulled over once but because we didn’t have command of the language and were obviously clueless tourists we were not searched. It was a bit intimidating to say the least. As we drove off I told my wife, “Thank god we don’t have to deal with this in the US”. Obviously I was mistaken…

  2. ezrydn says:

    Happy Belated Birthday, MOM!

    • allan says:

      ditto Mom! You don’t look a day over 89…

      Oh… and Mom… a mighty fine son you’ve raised ma’am. We think highly of young Pete. How many other folks out there would be willing to let such a crowd sit on their couches 24/7?

  3. darkcycle says:

    Happy Birthday!

    • Freeman says:

      Yes, Happy Birthday, and many, many more!

      OT, but I’ve just got to express my pity for whoever it is that is so cowardly and spiteful that they down-vote Happy Birthday messages anonymously. I can’t imagine what it would feel like to think so little of myself that I would do such things.

    • Francis says:

      Now that’s just depressing. It used to be the case that when you got to feeling down about the near-complete evisceration of the Bill of Rights, you could find some solace by saying to yourself “hey, at least we still have the Third Amendment.” Don’t tell me they’re gonna take that away from us now too.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        ¿Well if the jack boots need to set up surveillance of your neighbors why should a pesky Constitutional Amendment protecting one of your natural born rights get in their way? ¿Huh? ¿Huh?

        ¿Didja ever think of that? Now fall into line and start goose stepping and sieg heiling, your masters have snapped their fingers!

  4. claygooding says:

    Expert calls for marijuana to be legalised to reduce harm of binge drinking in teens

    Robin Room, director of the Centre for Alcohol Policy Research, says marijuana should be legalised under strict controls because the social harm associated with it was significantly less than from drinking.

    “It makes sense to legalise marijuana in a controlled market,” he told the Herald Sun yesterday. “We are in a situation where we need to look ahead. I think we need to have the discussion and it makes a lot of sense in terms of, among others, cutting down government costs to have a fairly highly controlled legal (cannabis) market and, while we are at it, tighten up the legal market of alcohol in the same way we tightened up the market of tobacco.”
    Prof Room, a leading academic at Melbourne University, is funded by the Department of Human Services.

    The link takes you to the editorial answer to the researchers suggestion also,,neither article had comments.

  5. Pingback: Conspiracy Theories! | Open Thread – Drug WarRant

  6. Servetus says:

    Drug war blowback inevitably affects drug war supporters, such as the poor in rural areas of W. Virginia and Alabama, who may not even realize their civil rights are being violated.

    Trust that’s afforded to law enforcement in the case of the ‘stop-and-robs’, where a motorist is stopped and robbed of their civil rights, is severely misplaced. These are the same kinds of cops who claim they can’t distinguish between hemp and marijuana, and they have dope-sniffing dogs that react to cat odors, or the unconscious promptings of the dog handler.

    In a free country we expect a certain amount of anonymity in our daily lives. We would certainly expect to have enforceable laws that criminalize stop-and-robs by law enforcement, such as those defrauding the public over seat-belt checks, when the real purpose of the stop is to circumvent or override 4th and 5th Amendment protections. Law enforcement can be sued and forced to cease their illegal surveillances, but it’s a long and expensive process, and it’s unlikely anyone will be held personally accountable for police illegalities besides the tax payer.

    As long as the drug war is allowed to reign supreme, law enforcement corruption will be an active, ongoing factor. Ignoring it will make society a more dangerous police state than it already is.

    • primus says:

      What needs to happen is for people to sue the cops to stop illegal police activities over and over again. The costs to the taxpayers will be noticed. When the sheeple find that the cops they so love and support are costing them huge dinero, they might just take back the love and support. Without the backing of the sheeple the cops can’t continue as they are. Hit them in the wallet, that way you are sure to get their attention.

  7. Patalyne says:

    contributing happy birthday!

  8. Here is a good example of a search done on the 4th :

  9. claygooding says:

    I had already heard about checkpoints being set up over the 4th and stayed home the entire weekend except a store run,,probably a wise decision over going 60 miles to a decent fireworks display I watched the one in NY harbor,,the good side of that was I didn’t get bit by even 1 mosquito or a set of blue lights.

  10. To Pete's dear Mom says:

    Happy Birthday from several feet below see-level!

  11. primus says:

    Sad when citizens are trapped in their own homes out of fear that they might be required to interact with the police. Sad commentary on your society, and sufficient reason to affirm my decision never to set foot in the excited states again.

    • claygooding says:

      I can’t afford to move to any other country I would consider moving too,,AUS being the only one I would even consider even though they are still reefer mad there,,,at least I understand enough of the language to know whether to smile or duck.
      And I stay in Tx because I refuse to run from the idiots in charge. Being treated as a second class citizen and lumped in with rapists and child molesters isn’t as likely to surface when you are around people that know your not.
      Everyone in town knows I am a pothead and I can still get good references from most of them,,it’s hard to rebuild that somewhere else.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        I’ve heard that Uruguay is beautiful, inexpensive AND civilized. The wife is going to be hearing a lot about Uruguay’s livability in the near future.Shit, we could even afford to retire with access to reasonably priced health care. Eighteen frickin’ thousand dollars a year is just too much of a bite in the ass to make it happen in the U.S.

        • claygooding says:

          As long as you don’t look like a good target for kidnapping by some 15 year old kid with an AK 47 because he saw it on one of their soap operas,,some of their ads with nekkid women would be a nice break from watching all these medicine ads.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          clay, Uruguay is in the elite levels if we’re ranking them by their crime rate. Didja know that President Mujica said, “body guards? I don’t need no steeen-kin’ body guards.” Can you imagine the President of Mexico saying that? Look what happened to the President of Iraq when George Bush the lesser decided to finish the job that his father had botched.

          He does keep two policemen around when he’s at work. But he has eschewed living in the Presidential palace commuting to work in a 1987 VW Bug. He leaves his wife home to tend to the household. No bodyguards. It’s frackin’ mind boggling. Would you care to speculate how long it would take one of the Mexican cartels to take her hostage?

          Of course like any other President, Señor Mujica is willing to tell bald faced lies. But I’m not used to them lying in my favor. One of the lies that he’s told is that he was commissioning a poll to find out how the people felt about re-legalizing cannabis, promising that if the approval rate didn’t top 60% he would drop the idea. It didn’t. The margin of defeat was 64-36.

          Uruguay: Marijuana will not be legalized without 60% of popular support
          July 16, 2012

          Señor Mujica Halts His Own Plan to Legalize Marijuana in Uruguay
          December 19, 2012

          Just over 6 months later…

  12. claygooding says:

    Robert is needing funds for another television ad for the Silver Tour to be aired in the South,,,when grandparents start asking for pot connections from their grandchildren maybe their parents will realize pot is for everyone.
    With the way cannabis treats leg cramps and arthritis it won’t be long before families will have an honest discussion on marijuana prohibition.

    PS:Happy birthday and I hope Pete don’t spank you,,,he’s a ruffian,,you know.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      People might want to remember that Florida is very likely to have a well financed medicinal cannabis patient protection law ballot referendum next year. Lots of old folks in Florida who just might vote in favor of less suffering for themselves if they’re given the opportunity to learn the facts.

      The prohibitionists are definitely taking Mr. Morgan seriously. Calvina is already drilling her army of flying monkeys in anticipation of Election Day 2014 and the Semblers are practicing their check writing.

      Regardless of the outcome it’s going to be a doozy of a campaign. I don’t think that we’ve seen one previously where a significant portion of the funding on both sides came from residents in the State. We should start a betting pool with the winner being the person that gets or comes closest to the date that the idiot prohibitionists figure out that John Morgan is a long time State resident and they can’t use they’re old, tired lament about out of Staters trying to trick the residents. Have I ever mentioned that Mr. Morgan is a colleague of Charlie Crist?
      Florida’s Scott Hears Footsteps — Loudest Coming from Charlie Crist

      My, my, my, it would be very pleasant to see Florida make the majority of the Country’s population live in a State with a medicinal cannabis patient protection law. We’re in spitting distance of that goal now. Seeing Gov. Scott kicked to the curb after a single term would certainly be frosting on the cake. Mmmm, cake frosting.

      • Duncan20903 says:

        Woo-hoo! I got a thumbs down!

      • crut says:

        Oh MAN, I hope Florida becomes a big battle with lots of money thrown at it. This 40+ year prohibition wall can’t crumble fast enough. The hypocrisy being exposed to the older generation can only accelerate it’s demise. If we’re really lucky, we’ll catch enough of a glimpse of government corruption to take a couple pounds of flesh…

  13. Duncan20903 says:


    So why isn’t anybody excited about Uruguay? I can barely find a mention on the web. No mention of the SCT, no condemnation from the U.N. and not even a whisper from the Obama Administration. But it is on the Fantasy-Based Community blog. That made it a very weird week because not only have I been to Prof. Kleiman’s dog & pony show twice in one week I actually went there on purpose once. Even more strange is that Prof. Kleiman approves of the new law. Now I’ve got to go buy some calamine lotion because being in the vicinity of Prof. Kleiman made me break out in a rash.

    So I guess the United States can’t buy compliance with our national insanity from every Tom, Dick, or Jose that’s running a foreign country. Sanity is breaking out all over!

    On the other hand the recommendation for the re-legalization of cannabis made by former Mexican President Vincente Fox is generating quite a stir.

    • Duncan20903 says:

      The prohibitionists are having conniption fits, parasites and sycophants alike.

      Vicente Fox, Former Mexican President, Launches Global Partnership With Pot Advocates

      Former Mexican President Vicente Fox met with cannabis advocates in San Francisco on Monday to announce the formation of an international partnership dedicated to decriminalizing and regulating pot. Fox has emerged as one of the most prominent voices pushing for marijuana legalization, publicly stating that he would grow the plant himself if he could.

      • ezrydn says:


        It’s rainy season in Guadalajara right now but, “Come On Down.” Most speak English and you need to check USD/MXP conversion. Get an FM-3 doc via their consulate and change it to an FM-2 after you’re here.

        Again, as a VN combat vet, do you honestly believe I’d live ‘In Harm’s Way’ intentionally? LOL Not likely, and I’ve been here for 13 years now.

  14. Pete bulkner says:

    You guys raped America

    • Maurice/Loves/Hungerbunny says:

      Please, not in front of Pete’s Mom!

    • allan says:

      hey Pete b, if all you’re gonna do is track crap on the carpet, why say anything? I mean really, you have nothing intelligent to say? Ever? C’mon man, there’s always a first time. try it, you’ll like it.

    • Hoosier Daddy says:

      Pete, right you are. Why not move to Singapore? Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way out. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    • claygooding says:

      I hate to be the one to tell you Pete B but after following congress and corporations raping America I need to find something that still has a little friction left,,of course at my age I can’t get off unless I have my rabbit suit on and one foot in the toaster.

    • darkcycle says:

      Another drive-by trolling. C’mon. You really do have to do better. Wiggles has been sedated (heavily), but at least he can summon a real trolling.

  15. claygooding says:

    Wells, Barry To Introduce Marijuana Decriminalization Bill for DC

    Getting caught with a small amount of pot in D.C. may soon fetch little more than a fine.

    D.C. Council members Tommy Wells (D-Ward 6) and Marion Barry (D-Ward 8) will introduce a bill decriminalizing the possession of small amounts of marijuana on Wednesday.

    Under the provisions of the bill, the penalty for the possession of less than one ounce of marijuana will be dropped to a civil penalty punishable by a $100 fine; it is currently a misdemeanor offense that can be met with six months in prison and a $1,000 fine. The bill would also mandate that minors caught with less than an ounce of marijuana attend a drug awareness program. ;snip

    In a related move, Council member David Grosso (I-At Large) says he is working on a broader bill that would legalize marijuana altogether, allowing the city to tax and regulate it under a program similar to that approved by Washington state voters in November 2012. That measure won’t likely be introduced until the fall, though, and Grosso says he will be meeting with various drug policy and civil liberties groups to fine-tune it. ‘snip’

    Put that in your pipe and smoke it. comments open

    Now lets see what Kerli and Kev-Kev say too this

    • Duncan20903 says:


      It’s not a good thing to see Marion Barry’s name attached to this proposal. Locals see his name and all that they can think is “Marion Barry sitting in a tree smoking c-o-c-a-i-n-e.” Neither is it partisan, it’s the first thing I think of when I see his name.

      • claygooding says:

        It matters not whose name is on it,,the United States capitol is attempting to decriminalizing and eventually legalizing marijuana regardless of Obama’s being opposed and the DOJ’s continued attacks on dispensaries and now there is a mmj dispensary operating within walking distance of the DEA admin bldg,,the cost of marijuana prohibition will go up as more countries read this as time to start setting their own marijuana markets up so they don’t miss any economic improvement resulting from legalization.
        I know what the local whites in DC think of Barry but apparently the people in his ward don’t feel that way.

    • Windy says:

      No matter how much marijuana one has in one’s possession, there should be NO penalties, criminal (jail, probation, etc.) or civil (fines, community service), period!

  16. DdC says:

    Na na na na na na…

    Study: Marijuana Smoking Not Associated With Airway Cancers, COPD, Emphysema, Or Other Tobacco-Related Pulmonary Complications
    by Paul Armentano, NORML Deputy Director July 9, 2013

    * Organic tobacco use has the same results as Ganja. It’s the chemical adulterants kept out of the conversation doing the harm. The word tobacco should be changed to cigarettes or tobacco products.

  17. War Vet says:

    Calling all Military Vets: How many of you guys are in the VFW or attend VFW meetings? Granted, I understand there are times and scheduling that may not work. But I find it helpful when I get involved and they know my position in regards to the War on Drugs. I told myself: If I don’t get involved now with the aging Nam and Korea and few WWII vets, then how will my generation make a difference when it comes to things connected to the War on Drugs i.e. liberty vs. legal precedents (as seen in the Nevada homeowners’ case Pete posted). Our current military smokes pot and one day they may have to quit because of urine tests and just forget about the cause or the movement . . . they may not see how the War on Drugs affects their oath to country: “in defense of all Domestic Threats”. I’m just saying, we youngens could use some help . . . being pro drug legalization and a member holding an officer spot in the VFW destroys stereotypes or maybe I’m just over zealous that my generation will make a real change. From the looks of it in my neck of the woods when it comes to the VFW: Nam Vets never used drugs, lest they be scum bag types . . . I’ve got a huge mountain to climb just to debunk that myth.

    • claygooding says:

      Viet Nam vets..or the ones I have known,,don’t join the VFW unless it is the only bar in town and if they do join and become part of their VFW leadership they probably didn’t do drugs,,most heads I knew that came back from Nam wanted nothing to do with leading anybody anywhere and had been broken of following anyone anywhere,anytime.

      • War Vet says:

        You’re right Clay. That’s what the history books and their faces say. If there was one that did do drugs, he’s been well trained not to speak about it. Granted, our town has several bars and I can tell where alcohol has been a steady part of their life and maybe even more so because of the war. Even our commander and service officer can be found with a beer or two at impromptu meetings. I will do my best to make sure all you guys get justice for the BS society and the Law tried to pull on you for you choice in living. After being on here so much, I’ve come up with the conclusion that simply wearing a uniform during war doesn’t make you patriotic, but you, the rest of the vets on this couch and everyone else sitting with us are by far the most patriotic people I’ve seen . . . since I believe Patriotism is embodied through the kind of activism that seeks justice.

  18. muggles says:

    Happy belated birthday mom from North Carolina :)….I bet that you are mighty proud of your son.

  19. thelbert says:

    Happy birthday to Pete’s mom. you have an outstanding son, one to be proud of.

  20. allan says:

    Calvina’s pokin’ her nose into other’s bidness. Of course she’s months too late. To Calvina’s increasing irrelevance! Huzzah!

    Veto HB 3460!

    Take Action! Visit this page:

    Against the wishes of Oregon voters who have twice said NO to marijuana storefronts, Oregon legislators passed HB 3460, a bill to establish a regulating system for pot shops.

    There are currently over 150 pot shops in Oregon, all of which have been notified by the U.S. Attorney’s Office that they are operating illegally. HB 3460 undermines the authority of the U.S. Attorney’s Office and positions the state to be at odds with federal law.

    Pot shops claim to operate as nonprofits, but many are tied to
    organized crime gangs and are multi-million dollar profit centers. They are easy marks for criminal activities because of valuable marijuana crops and large amounts of cash. Additional impacts related to pot shops include diverted sales to minors and non-registered users, loitering, heavy vehicle and foot traffic in retail areas, increased noise, and robberies of customers just outside the facilities

    Colorado’s attempt at pot shop regulation failed to control the influx of shops and the diversion of medi-pot to other states. After passing similar legislation, the number of registered users in Colorado jumped from approximately 5,000 to over 100,000! Colorado has between 500-800 licensed pot shops and an estimated 900 unlicensed shops still operating. Why would the outcome be any different in Oregon?

    Help protect the state of Oregon from the impacts of pot shops. Please click on Take Action and send a prewritten letter to Governor Kitzhaber urging a VETO of HB 3460!

    For more information on current legislative issues, or to become a
    member or make a contribution, please visit

    • allan says:

      and just as an example of how ditzy this broad is, check this out, from above:

      heavy vehicle and foot traffic in retail areas

      Damn that heavy traffic in retail areas! Boy I bet all that increased traffic makes the other store owners mad… more people hanging around their stores, buying stuff… Damitol!®

      Speaking of inserting foot whilst head is firmly implanted in the caboose…

    • allan says:

      I used Calvina’s form and edited out almost everything, changed “veto” to “sign” and basically sent only “please sign HB 3460.”

      • Windy says:

        I love using those anti-freedom letters and petitions to the opposite outcome, I do it as often as possible when they apply to my local, State, or the fed gov.

    • Howard says:

      I think a new organization needs to be formed;

      Eh, never mind. That URL is just too long. But you get the idea.

  21. strayan says:

    Alison Holcomb just nailed Keith Humphrey’s in the comments over at:

  22. strayan says:

    Medical marijuana patients whose drugs are taken by police are entitled to get it back, the Arizona Supreme Court has ruled.

    Read more:

    • Duncan20903 says:


      It’s no surprise. The only thing that’s particularly remarkable about the case is that it demonstrates the willingness of public authorities to squander public resources. The question was in front of the SCOTUS in 2008, and the ruling was b-o-r-i-n-g.

      For details see City of Garden Grove v. Felix Kha, 157 Cal. App. 4th 355; 68 Cal. Rptr. 3d 656 (2007)

      The only problem with the ruling is that every Court higher than the California Court of Appeals wasn’t interested in hearing the prohibitionists embarrass themselves by arguing that the CSA doesn’t exempt State and local authorities from criminal liability in the performance of their duties. If a DEA agent was in the room when the police evidence clerk returned the medicine to Mr. Kha the only person getting arrested would have been Mr. Kha.

      Think about it for a second. Without that exemption the cop who arrested Mr. Kha would have been guilty of petty possession after confiscating Mr. Kha’s medicine. When he gave it to the evidence clerk for safekeeping then he’d be guilty of distribution and the clerk would have been guilty of possession. When he sent the evidence to Court then he’d be guilty of distribution, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

      But since it didn’t get heard by a Federal Court of appeals it’s not binding anywhere but in California. I’m not even sure that it’s binding outside of California’s 4th Judicial Circuit. Regardless, it’s just plain stupid for anyone to believe that the California State Supreme Court, the 9th Circuit Federal Court of Appeals AND the SCOTUS would have refused to hear a case appealing a ruling that requires a sworn police officer to violate the CSA unless that ruling was based on black letter law. Shit, they couldn’t even get a friendly ruling in the local Court and at that level the Judges are most certainly inclined to give the locals the benefit of even the most extreme doubt.

      I’ve actually had some sycophants make the absurd assertion that maybe all those high Courts were busy with more important cases that session. Yeah, right, tell us another fairy story daddy.

      I’m not sure if the Arizona authorities that filed this case are perfidiously pursuing this case despite the fact that they know that they’re arguing a case which they have not even the proverbial snowball’s chance of winning or if they’re grossly incompetent, but those are the only two choices.

      The LAW is the LAW (blah, blah, blah) crowd is once again up in the peanut gallery cheering the lawbreaking actions of public authorities like the hypocritical partisan hack that we know that they are.

  23. The entire system has become corrupted by the drug war. It sure is becoming obvious.

    The Lust For Convictions In The War On Drugs

    “From confiscation laws to no-knock warrants to the general militarization of local police departments, the lust for convictions in the war on drugs has resulted in all manner of corruption, from the purely monetary to a contempt for civil liberties that bled easily into the war on terror and, I would argue, has a lot to do with the developing surveillance state that the war on terror threw into hyperdrive.”

    • allan says:

      a good, quick read. Thanks TC.

      you know… with all the dust flying around from all these bricks going T H U D so often these days, it’s hard to see how bad the condition is of the WODwall, but the dust is so thick there is some major crumbling going on.

      How’s the view from under all that rubble, Calvina?

  24. Servetus says:

    Jesús Lemus Barajas, a journalist unjustly imprisoned in Mexico’s notorious Puente Grande prison in Jalisco, simply because he linked Mexican government officials to the cartels in some news articles, is getting out after three years. He was held totally naked in isolation for a year.

    Now he has a new book coming out from Random House, called Los Malditos (The Damned), in which he has interviewed many of Mexico’s former star narco-trafficantes. It promises to be a good read.

    The U.S. Government’s Merida Initiative promotes building more prisons like Puente Grande, and supporting more corrupt politicos as a solution to the prohibition problem in Mexico. Any solution but the right one seems to be the U.S. mantra.

  25. Duncan20903 says:


    The idiot judge in the George Zimmerman trial for his murder of 17 year old Trayvon Martin has reversed a previous ruling and now is allowing Mr. Zimmerman to argue justification based on reefer madness. In a remarkable turn of events the Tampa Bay Times put two and two together and is reporting that it resulted in four:

    At Zimmerman trial, marijuana testimony echoes famous Tampa killings
    by Ben Montgomery
    July 9, 2013

    Testimony expected in the George Zimmerman murder trial about whether marijuana can make people violent brings to mind a seminal case that played out decades ago in Tampa and that influenced the way Americans think of the drug.

    In October 1933, Victor Licata, a 21-year-old Tampa man, killed his mother, father, two brothers, sister and the family dog with an ax at the home they shared in Ybor City. Police found him crouched in the bathroom, mumbling incoherently. He refused to talk at first but later told police of a dream in which he hit six people with an ax.

    A Tampa police detective told reporters that he had investigated Licata earlier and found he was addicted to smoking marijuana cigarettes. The Tampa police chief soon chimed in, saying that even if Licata’s marijuana use “only had a small indirect part in the alleged insanity of the youth,” he was “declaring now and for all time that the increasing use of this narcotic must stop and will be stopped.”

    • allan says:

      holy shit… really? They went there?

      Personally, I feel that when Zimmerman began following Travon and police told him to back off and he didn’t, he indicated his intent. He wanted an incident. They keep showing the abrasions on Zimmerman as if it is automatic indication of assault and not the signs of a 17 year old fighting for his life from the aggressions of some stand-your-ground true believing punk ass mf.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        I don’t think the case is going well for Mr. Zimmerman because that sound you hear is the defense scraping the bottom of the barrel. But I’m not really paying attention so I could be wrong. But I do disagree with the assertion that Mr. Zimmerman is anything but a speck of supporting evidence in an indictment against the so called stand your ground law. The case is actually more likely supporting evidence that it’s a good law because SYG in Florida grants immunity from prosecution, not a simple right to an affirmative defense. Unless I’m mistaken Mr. Zimmerman was indicted and is on trial for what he did. I suppose I could be hallucinating but to me it sure looks like he’s on trial.

        I thought that we believed in juries? Is that just when we want to believe?

        P.S. the only way this case can mimic O.J. Simpson trial number 1 is if the prosecution botches the case due to gross incompetence. The jury in OJ1 returned the correct verdict based on the evidence that they heard. That trial was just after my car wreck and it was the only thing on daytime TV even remotely viewable back then. There was no jury nullification. People never take into account that the public was privy to a lot of evidence that Judge Ito excluded. But it was the idiocy of the prosecution, in particular Chris Darden’s stupid glove trick and his gross incompetence in thinking he could be like a real live Perry Mason. Instead he ended up being Ham Burger. If I had been prosecuting that case it would have taken the prosecution less than 2 courtroom days before resting. Instead those idiots decided to open all those doors for the defense to use which created reasonable doubt. I saw the glove trick live on TV. I was like, ohmygosh, he’s acquitted, no doubt! What was that dumbfuck thinking?

        • allan says:

          oh I admit I can be a judgemental prick at times, when I want to be. W/ Zimmerman, I want to be.

          And yeah, I’m a stand your ground kinda guy too. But I don’t look for trouble. I’m the guy that walks the drunk girl I don’t know home from a concert, so she’s not walking across town, alone and in the dark. That’s one way I stand my ground. That and fighting the WO(s)D of course.

        • sub = density x g x h says:

          “I’m the guy that walks the drunk girl I don’t know home from a concert, so she’s not walking across town, alone and in the dark.”

          One of the drunken women I once helped home insisted on screeching the whole of ‘After The Gold Rush’—it still gives me nightmares 🙁

        • Jean Valjean says:

          cannabis use is the witchcraft of the 20th century… blame the victim, he was one of those druggies you’ve all heard about…hashish eaters, assassins, reefer madness! Mass hysteria descends..

        • Duncan20903 says:


          allan, don’t get me wrong, I would really like to see Mr. Zimmerman convicted and sent to prison for a long, long time because I think that he’s as guilty as sin. But my knowledge of the event is sketchy and if the jury acquits I’ll accept that I almost certainly missed some important part.

          As far as I can tell the only thing that connects this incident to the SYG law is the fact that so many people are erroneously attaching the law to the case. It may play a minor roll in jury deliberations by removing the duty to retreat but beyond that the fact that he’s on trial reduces the effect of the SYG law to minimal.

          He had 1.5 ng/ml in his blood, the sample was drawn directly from his heart during the autopsy. If the prosecution isn’t grossly incompetent they should be able to easily convince the jury to treat the cannabis nonsense as the nonsense that it is. We might even get some good material to bolster our argument a wee bit since the prosecution is going to have to argue that Mr. Zimmerman’s claim is nothing more than a pile of road apples.

        • ezrydn says:

          Trial portion is ended. Summation next. Tox report not intro’ed by Defense.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          Why the heck did they argue so hard to be allowed to put it into evidence? The Judge denied them twice before relenting. More billable hours? A defense in a case like this can easily top $250k and Mr. Zimmerman is no Kennedy. Even if acquitted he’s almost certainly going to be indigent after the trial Small comfort for the public if he’s acquitted but still a bit of a silver lining.

          People are nucking futz.

    • Howard says:

      Harry Anslinger would be so proud (facepalm) :/.

    • Duncan20903 says:

      BTW, you can skip the comments. I’ll give you a summary:

      Mr. Zimmerman didn’t commit murder! He did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not! Did too! Did not!…

      • claygooding says:

        you forgot the occasional fuck you,you are wrong,,other than that,,spot on

        • Duncan20903 says:

          Variation isn’t conducive to copy and paste. But if you want to go there you forgot about the guy that made $9,132 after he clicked the link.

    • thelbert says:

      i say bring it on. the more public discussion of cannabis the better. when you think about things george z. could have been doing, besides watching the neighborhood, smoking a fatty comes too mind. being the eyes and ears of the police sure didn’t pan out that night. minding his own business would have been the wiser choice.

      • claygooding says:

        In my opinion Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter because he initiated the incident. If he had minded his own business or followed the recommendation of the 911 operator then Trayvon wouldn’t be dead.
        If he does walk on this he still gets to go through life explaining how a teenager smaller than him was whipping his adult ass so badly he feared for his life.
        Punk is the term that comes to my mind. I hope everyone that feels that Trayvons death was uncalled for asks Zimmerman how it feels to be such a punk every time he sticks his head up in public,,we can make his life hell if the courts don’t.

  26. Duncan20903 says:


    In the last couple of days I’ve been thinking that pockets of sanity are popping up all over, and in some of the strangest places. Well IMO there’s no stranger place to find some reefer sanity than in Australia:

    Aussie expert: Legalize marijuana to protect teens from binge drinking
    By Stephen C. Webster
    July 10, 2013

    The director of Australia’s alcohol policy research body said Tuesday that he believes marijuana should be legalized and tightly controlled by the government in order to reduce binge drinking, which he said has a much stronger association with violence than any other drug of abuse, particularly among teens.

    Robin Room told The Herald Sun on Tuesday that it “makes sense to legalize marijuana in a controlled market.”

  27. claygooding says:

    Speaking of druggie profiling,,former Mayor Barry now Councilman Barry is being laughed at every time someones reminds bloggers that he is a cocaine user however his constituents still want him in their politics,,so I say an ex-cocaine addict trumps an alcoholic oxy addict whose constituents don’t want in their politics.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      clay, please take my word for it, Ward 8 voters aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed. Mr. Barry is a flim flam man. Ward 8 is where the zoning board puts the ghettos and most of the open air drug markets in D.C. Mr. Barry campaigns on a platform of having been wronged by the man and the promise of tax dollars trickling down to the people of Ward 8. The voters aren’t even able to grasp that Mr. Barry is the man.

      He sure hasn’t given up being busted. Tagged for cannabis and cocaine in 2002 (planted by the man to frame him, yeah right), income tax evasion in 2005, income tax evasion (again) in 2008, stalking in 2009, and accused of taking kickbacks from the woman he was accused of stalking in 2009.

      In 2010, the D.C.Council voted unanimously in favor of stripping Barry of all committee assignments, ending his chair of the Committee on Housing and Workforce Development, and removing him from the Committee on Finance and Revenue.

      Mr. Barry certainly keeps his colleagues, the police, Courts and his probation officer busy. He gets busted so often that nowadays people yawn and ask, “so what else is news?” The man is a friggin’ disgrace to the entire human race.

      Good golly clay, sometimes you just have to defer to the locals. I want people to not get busted and I’ve got my fingers crossed that his name won’t be a hindrance. But his name on the proposed law is an albatross around its neck. That is the reality in the District of Columbia.

      Oh, BTW don’t forget that any law the D.C. Council passes can be squashed by Congress at its whim. Also don’t forget that D.C. politics is run by a so called political machine. The City is 90% Democrat so anyone that gets nominated by the Democrats wins, which means that the City’s elections are de facto held at the primaries with Election Day being little more than a rubber stamp. I find the likelihood that his seat on the Council is nothing more than a payoff to keep his mouth shut much more significant than the fact that he won the election.

      What in the world makes you think he’s given up the cocaine?

      My assertions submitted respectfully and IMHO.

  28. War Vet says: Vivian McPeak of Hempfest brought this to my attention. I don’t trust it but its written by someone who appears to support hemp and (if I read right) legalizing cannabis (as the author of the website claims). Elements found in this could be hurtful if our enemies use this as a method of ‘hemp is not as important as we thought etc’. It states that hemp is good, but not as good as the hemp movement claims. One thing it did state is that Hemp was never prohibited before WWII . . . that hemp industries just died off by themselves without the M stamp Tax Act . . . that the MTA didn’t stop or dwindle hemp. Granted, some of my research did state that hemp wasn’t totally banned until the late 50’s, which he supports –but the question is: did the MTA and Anslinger make it where hemp couldn’t compete and thus died by stifling competition and using the MTA as the early method or loophole when ‘not discerning hemp from cannabis’? I think the MTA did hurt hemp but he’s claiming it didn’t. The language it uses is one that appears to be neutral and yet ‘on our side . . . just clearing some things up for ya’ kind of writing. I take it with a few pounds of salt, let alone a grain of salt. Maybe its nothing or maybe it could be serious. Let’s hope that Kevin or Kleimen don’t get a hold of it and use it to soften the march towards Hemp. The one thing the author of the site doesn’t have going for him is he doesn’t place sources or page numbers, though he has a bibliography and when ‘debunking the myths’ uses the various authors names –though as stated: doesn’t put a page number.

    • allan says:

      it’s made the rounds WV… he hedges his bets as well. Besides, the decision to grow hemp should be one for farmers and their markets, not some pinhead w/ a qwerty that doesn’t like hippies or hemp or a gummint that can’t tell ganja from hemp.

      There’s an old article in the MAP archives taht talks about a ND farmer on the border watching the farmer across the border getting $250/acre for his hemp… I’ll see if I can find it, brb.


      here ya go:

      and when you read it, keep in mind the article is from ’99.

      • War Vet says:

        Thank you Allan. I think the next time I write to one of my reps in regards to ‘Hemp’, I’ll use this link. But if hemp becomes legal in America, do you see the price being higher or lower? Since hemp can create God knows how many things, I’d like to think it would keep the price high enough for farmers to make a living off of. Before I started sitting in with you guys, I think I might have heard this same story about the ND farmer watching his neighbor. Speaking of hemp, have you seen the Hemp Car yet? Even though there’d be a few whackos hitting it with their pitch forks and claiming it was sent from the Devil, I’m sure the durable hemp plastic body would keep it safe . . . I’d like to think that even by big oil state (though smaller in size than Texas) will come to realize and invest in putting biomass fuels from hemp to work . . . that maybe a few of our many refineries could get a complete makeover and be transformed into turning hemp into fuel.

    • claygooding says:

      I read a newspaper from back in the early 40’s of federal tax officers raiding rural farmers that were growing hemp in their personal gardens and in towns where people were growing it in their yards,,many people made their own hemp oil from the seeds and cloth from the fibers,,hell that was what homespuns were.

      • War Vet says:

        Thanks for that report Clay. One day we will overgrow the government. I’d love to start my own ‘American’ hemp business.

  29. nick says:

    If they put up road blocks in my community there will be hell to pay.

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