Signs of change, part 2

bullet image In the National Conference of State Legislatures online magazine, a detailed article by Suzanne Weiss: The nation is watching closely as Colorado and Washington put new pot laws in place.

It’s a well-written article laying out the background of legalization in Colorado and Washington and essentially preparing the legislatures of other states to start thinking about regulating marijuana.

With two states blazing the trail by legalizing marijuana, and public acceptance of the drug on an upward trajectory, it’s clear state lawmakers will be grappling with the social, economic and political ramifications of cannabis for some time.

This reminds me of the fact that it wasn’t so long ago that legalization wasn’t even considered worthy of serious discussion. In 2005, Peter Reuter and David Boyum wrote a detailed analysis of the drug war for the American Enterprise Institute (my article about it here).

At that time, they said:

Nor do we explore the merits and demerits of legalizing drugs, even though legalization is perhaps the most prominent and hotly debated topic in drug policy. Our analysis takes current policy as its starting point, and the idea of repealing the nation’s drug laws has no serious support within either the Democratic or Republican Party.”

They couldn’t even imagine the notion that change would come about despite the Democratic and Republican parties.

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146 Responses to Signs of change, part 2

  1. Fallibilist says:

    Pete, you’re not being fair to Reuter and Boyum. They were saying that it wasn’t worth the time to consider legalizing all drugs because that’s not politically practicable.

    IOW, they weren’t talking about just cannabis.

    That position was true then (way back in 2005) and it’s true now. (Just try to talk about legalizing meth or coke inside the beltway.)

    It’s true we’ve come a long way on cannabis but it’ll still be a long time before you have to shut your blog down due to total victory on the issue of “currently illegal narcotics.”

    • darkcycle says:

      I think you might be surprised just how fast you might be eating those words. IIRC, that sentiment was The Gospel, mere months ago…
      P.S. ….bon appetit.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      It wasn’t politically “practicable” to talk about re-legalizing cannabis until November of 2012. Absolute prohibition of other drugs is just as stupid as the absolute prohibition of cannabis. Stupidity as a basis for public policy damages our society and hurts the citizenry despite the insistence of the stupid that it works.

  2. darkcycle says:

    Hey Pete. Interesting…that article you refer to from the AEI seems to have been removed. I went just to do a quick look see, and the page content is unavailable. If anybody has an alternate link, or if you can come up with a cached copy to link…that would be nice.

  3. darkcycle says:

    I’m tired and it’s good to have that edit function back….

  4. kaptinemo says:

    The pols still don’t get it, though.

    “Washington Senate Republican Leader Mark Schoesler says he doesn’t expect the issue of marijuana legalization to get much attention during the 2013 session.
    Legislative leaders of both parties “have committed ourselves to a narrowly focused agenda—jobs, education and the budget,” Schoesler says. “So we’ve got a lot of work ahead of us, and can’t afford to go off on other issues.”

    Besides, he notes, “amending the provisions of an initiative approved by voters requires a two-thirds vote of both chambers. That’s a huge threshold, and I just don’t see it happening.”

    Schoesler says the biggest question related to implementation of the new marijuana law “is how much leeway the other Washington is going to give us.” (Emphasis mine – k.)

    Did you catch that? Did you hear the almost unconscious arrogance of what this pol said? As if he had some kind of a priori secret responsibility to emasculate that LAW, like what happened in Arizona right after Prop200 passed.

    Looks like the Washington State pols still don’t understand what happened last November. They still think they can arrogantly water-down to impotence the LAWS passed by plebiscite.

    They need to be told otherwise…and soon.

    • Windy says:

      I have the email addresses of 18 of WA’s legislators, in case anyone is interested in sending them an email on this subject.

  5. SelwynGonzalesTucker says:


    Colombia’s Farc rebels have called for some coca, poppy and marijuana cultivation to be legalised as part of land reform in the country.

    The guerrillas’ proposal came as they attended ongoing peace talks in Cuba with the Colombian government.

    Legalisation of drug crops should be considered for therapeutic, medicinal, industrial or cultural reasons, Farc chief negotiator Ivan Marquez said.

    Land use and ending drug trafficking are among the key issues at the talks.

    The concentration of land was a major cause of the uprising that brought about the Farc’s establishment in the early 1960s.

    “We need to reorientate the use of land towards sustainable agricultural production,” Ivan Marquez told reporters, as the Farc presented eight proposals for land reform.

    This meant even considering “legalising some marijuana, poppy and coca leaf plantations for therapeutic or medicinal reasons, for industrial use or cultural ends,” he added.

    Senior Farc commanders are taking part in peace talks aimed at ending five decades of the conflict
    Communities who grow such crops should not be criminalised and persecuted, the rebels said.

    They called for an end to aerial spraying and other methods of eradicating drug crops.


  6. ezrydn says:

    For those of you living in the only two FREE states in America, how’s supply and demand at your end?

    • darkcycle says:

      Just a snapshot, but the supply here is currently glutted, and the price at the wholesale level is dropping, while the end consumer isn’t seeing much change. Part of the issue is the dispensaries low balling growers and brokers, part is that I think people are growing their operations in anticipation of becoming “legal”. Several of my associates have expanded their grows, more plan to. Ounces are going for from $140-$200, just a couple of years ago, Oz’s were between $250-$350, depending on grade.
      Part is we seem to be caught in a standard downward price spiral. Growers are getting paid less, so they are planting more in an effort to make up the difference, and that, in turn, suppresses the price even more.
      Right now It’s shakeout time. The growers who make it at this point will be those producing the most, or those with superior product. Till it’s registration time, then the State steps in. Washington has a delicate job ahead. They are just beginning to understand that this market is much bigger than they imagined, and that the current industry, as it is configured, has many thousands of people dependant upon it. They will have to find a way to bring these people in, or they’ll be overgrown from the very start.

      • kaptinemo says:

        History is repeating itself; this is the pattern that began to occur when it became obvious that alcohol Prohibition was legislatively doomed. Scaling up production to meet demand while at the same time comes the inevitable price drop…taking place in an atmosphere of anticipation of even greater price reductions.

        The cartels must have written off WA and CO by now. I doubt much is moving into those States from outside, anymore. Adam Smith’s Invisible Hand in motion again, and there’s nothing any DrugWarriors can do to stop it…as if they ever could.

        • Peter says:

          i expect the cartels in wa and co are busy practicing their kidnapping techniques and setting up countrrfeit cd factories to make up for their losses on mj. what i love about these two states is that they provide a practical and measurable refutation of everything the prohibs have ever said about the “dangers” of legalization

        • darkcycle says:

          There was never a market here for brick weed. You couldn’t give it away. Not only has the last twenty years seen the Northwest leading the pack in home growing (first dedicated hydroponics shop in the U.S. was Eco-enterprises in Seattle, they opened way back in the seventies), this is the ingress point for most of the B.C. growers product. Washington, in particular has never had much cartel weed. We’re on the other border, and the Canucks grow better weed than the Mexicans.

        • Duncan20903 says:

          Well I never expected to hear about the invisible hand in this column. Kudos kaptin.

    • curmudgeon says:

      In Colorado, I demand, my caregiver supplies Durban Poison, Grape Skunk, Bubba Kush, and more I had never heard of. No supply/demand problem here.

    • claygooding says:

      Supply is good here,,costs water,lights and nutrients plus a bucket full of patience. The grief off the recently acquired seeds is much better than the grief from my earlier efforts and I expect the buds to spoil me.

      The brick going around is about $80 and has very few seeds,I think the growers down south are trying to pull the males,,only about 12 seeds in an oz I bought recently as opposed to a couple of years ago when they were seedy as hell.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        I actually ran into some brickweed in Baltimore not too long ago. It actually had a pleasant aroma and wasn’t packed with seeds. It was still compressed. Of course doing that even with a lesser seed content cracks the hulls and allows the seed oil to soak into the pot which is what I think really denigrates the product. But I was able to toy with the idea that the seeds that weren’t broken might actually result in something other than bunk weed.

        The Mexicans used to produce quality cannabis back in the 1970s. I think maybe somehow the growers there got confused and thought that today’s cannabis was supposed to be 20 times less potent than back then instead of vice versa. 1970s grade Acapulco Gold is still most certainly welcome in my home.

        • darkcycle says:

          You’re right Duncan. We had a good supply of jamaican and columbian in Illinois when I lived there (pre 1976). The first sensi (as we called it) didn’t have the Mallet to the Head effect I had come to associate with the pot back then. I actually think the imported product was much better on average than people gave it credit for. The Cannabis today is just as good, but it took indoor growers a while to catch up. And yeah, I can remember one batch in particular…it was Columbian with big fat, giant seeds. So good that I bought a QP when I was only usually buying a half ounce every two or three weeks. Devastating pot. It could stop all conversation.

  7. claygooding says:

    Michigan gets more than $10 million from medical program that costs $1.8 million to run

    “”Medical marijuana has been a boon for Michigan state coffers over the last year, generating more than $10 million in revenue for the state.

    Considering the entire program costs about $1.8 million to run, that’s a pretty hefty profit to be made off patients and caregivers. “snipped”

    THUD,,,the one thing drug warriors fear most,,profit instead of more prisons.

  8. More/Change/ says:


    Feb 6, 2013 .. In a major victory for New Jersey’s pregnant women and families, the New Jersey Supreme Court announced a unanimous opinion in New Jersey Division of Youth & Family Services v. A.L. recognizing that the state’s child protection laws do not give the Division of Child Protection and Permanency jurisdiction or control over pregnant women and that positive drug tests on pregnant women and newborns do not alone establish neglect. The court also acknowledged the concerns of leading medical and public health organizations that application of child protection laws to the context of pregnancy can undermine maternal, fetal, and child health.

    In this case, a mother, identified in court records as “A.L.,” gave birth to a healthy baby in September of 2007. The New Jersey Division of Child Protection and Permanency (formerly the Division of Youth and Family Services) argued that positive drug screens for cocaine on A.L. and her newborn were sufficient evidence of harm or imminent harm to find that A.L. had neglected her child. A lower court and the Appellate Division agreed, not only finding neglect in this case but also declaring that New Jersey’s neglect law could be applied to the context of pregnancy. Today the New Jersey Supreme Court rejected these claims.


  9. Servetus says:

    The Liberty Crier has an article listing the “the Top 10 Cannabis Studies the Government Wished it Had Never Funded” which makes for a good reference page to use when confronting hemp haters and cannabiphobes. It includes references to the scientific literature as well.

  10. stlgonzo says:

    OT: Massive Manhunt On for Ex-Cop Accused of Killing 3

    The Irony here is amazing. This story really seems like a case of chickens coming home to roost. Live by the sword, die by the sword. And whatever other cliche you might like.

    “Los Angeles officers guarding a “target” named in the posting shot and wounded multiple people in Torrance who were in a pickup but were not involved, authorities said. The extent of their injuries was not released. It’s not clear if the target is a person or a location.

    The Daily Breeze in Torrance also reports ( that there was another police shooting nearby involving another pickup truck, but the driver wasn’t hurt.”

    “We’re asking our officers to be extraordinarily cautious just as we’re asking the public to be extraordinarily cautious with this guy. He’s already demonstrated he has a propensity for shooting innocent people,” said LAPD Cmdr. Andrew Smith.

  11. darkcycle says:

    Another O/T. This article on “pot farming devastation” is up at Mother Jones. They have THE MOST ANAL moderators in the known universe, and I must have violated some policy with my first post, so I’m blocked. But BorderColliesRule is in need of some correction as regards the “Cartels” growing pot in California. I’d been trying to post this link when I discovered I’d been blocked.
    When I say they are anal, I meant SUPER anal, so be just as nice as you possibly can….

    • darkcycle says:

      Never mind…they’s just really slow.

      • allan says:

        damn it darkcycle! Act like an amotivated stoner for once wouldja? Crikey mate… this is a 300mph freight train we’re ridin’ and if we go any faster we’ll pass ourselves and then we’ll have torn the very fabric of the space-time continuum. And as baddyglaf el daturo would note, that means custard everywhere. Everywhere…

        • darkcycle says:

          Sorry, forgot about the Custard Effect. I’ll try to be careful.

        • primus says:

          I looked for ‘Custard Effect’ on Wikipedia, no luck. I am totally in the dark on this reference. Help.

        • darkcycle says:

          Oh, the “Custard Effect”. It’s a little known prediction of string theory. Very esoteric. I don’t claim to understand it. But, apparently if we, as a we, progress so fast as to catch, and actually pass ourselves (trans relativistic velocities), the entire subatomic structure of the universe will become manifest as yellow custard curds. Of course, “Custard Cosmology” has it that the origin of the universe (the “big Bang”) was actually a giant kitchen explosion involving custard. So it really does make sense, since everybody knows that certain properties of matter are conserved (energy, spin, custard, etc).
          Really, a great advance over “pudding theory”. Malcolm is a respected custard theorist, you really should ask him.

        • darkcycle says:

          daturo…just caught that. I’m laughing soooo hard….

        • darkcycle says:

          Canyabelieveit??? I actually got a “Congratulations you win” from a prohib who I’ve engaged before. I’ve gone ’round with BorderCollie a coupla times.
          Hee-hee. I win. And okay, bordercollie, I’ll enjoy it.

        • allan says:

          darn fine breakdown of custard there darkcycle. We confounded the hive for weeks with discussion of “the custard.”

          Primus, I hope your physics background is better than mine.

          If I may continue on this couchwiki entry… custard is Malcolm’s synonym for “cosmic foam,” that mysterious non-substance that comprises all the acreage separating neutrons, protons, megatrons and marathons as they rotate around each other in some horny electro-biological dance. Gettin’ all jiggy wit’ it and all that…

          That matter isn’t really matter but just an odd arrangement of itty-bitty bits spinning around in nothing which isn’t really nothing… but really is custard… led me to ask how much matter matters.

          And as baddyglaf is really the expert (baddyglaf meaning as best my online translator can give me is I am my maker or maybe I’ve been made… or… it could be “I am the custard maker”…

        • Duncan20903 says:

          I love custard. Why the heck is custard everywhere a bad thing??

        • darkcycle says:

          Custard is not “bad” or “good”. Custard just is.

        • kaptinemo says:

          Dammitol, guys, I haven’t had a custard pie in years. Now I’ve got a hankering for one.

          Given the subject, you may find this of some interest, as it addresses the issue of what ‘inhabits’ the ‘vacuum’. This guy may just turn theoretical physics on its’ collective head:

          Nassim Haramein – Sacred Geometry & Unified Fields

          Oh, and given the subject, I’d like my custard pie in Cosmic Coconut, please (heh, sounds like something you’d get at an Amsterdam ‘coffeeshop’).

        • War Vet says:

          Wasn’t it Einstein who theorized that space was wavy like a churning sea . . . so a vehicle going so fast as to out run itself would need all the features that Cuban drug smugglers use on speedboats in a choppy ocean? What if those trying to discover long distant space travel accidentally slip into a K-Whole and not a Worm Hole? If they slip into a Warm Hole, they might be in Amsterdam in some brothel . . . pay enough money, any hooker will fulfill your custard space fantasies.

  12. Debunking The Hideous Drug War Lies Of Kevin Sabet

    Russ Belville does a nice job!

  13. Nunavut Tripper says:

    Wow , that Kevin is a rude little prick eh ?
    He looks desperate and emotional ,constantly interrupting Ethan.
    Amazing how he pulls those wildly negative stats out of thin air.
    I think he’s on something…here Kevie ,pee in this container so we can help you.

    • kaptinemo says:

      Desperation tactics. A common enough methodology for the prohibs, and we’ll see more of this as they lose ground.

      Someone once told me that when you fight someone and they get really angry, you’ll see the real person underneath the mask. Kevin’s mask has cracked clean through, and the public is starting to see the kind of mindset that loves prohibition so much, and why.

      The more the prohibs are backed into a corner, the more foaming, wide-eyed batsh*t crazy they’ll get, and the more visibly, infuriatingly authoritarian they’ll become.

      Because what is happening now is a lot like a distillation process; the seemingly rational arguments prohibs try to bamboozle the public with are being vaporized off the top by reformers like Russ Belville, and the remaining material is half BS and half bluster, with the BS part being nothing more than pure, thick, oily, gunky industrial-strength Reefer Madness.

      But here’s something else to think about: The DrugWarriors have lost an entire generation with their lies and at-ti-tude. A generation they needed to fund their precious DrugWar via taxes. Any wonder why ol’ Kevie is so upset?

      • War Vet says:

        They used Kennedy didn’t they. How low can you go? That’s like professor Hawking’s class being substituted by the Taco-Bell cashier guy simply because the Taco Bell guy deals with numbers all day at his job.

    • claygooding says:

      Another sign of change,,the prohibs are scared and the fear is beginning to show up in their live appearances,,I wish we could get a body language expert to critique some of these debates and see if Kevs body actions signify when he is ignoring facts and producing his own.

  14. Servetus says:

    It could be worse. If not Kevin Sabet, it could have been someone articulate and quick-witted.

    • primus says:

      No way; someone articulate and quick witted would never place himself in that position. The fact that kevkev has done exactly that proves he is neither. QED.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      Is that guy that was convicted of fraud in 2008 still running the show at MJNA? I’d expect so since it’s his dog & pony show.

      Yeah, it’s an indication that we’re mainstreamed but don’t invest any money that you’d rather not throw away into those names.

    • claygooding says:

      Greed of the few created hemp prohibition and greed of the many will end it,,this is another profits instead of prison grey area or will the government go after stockholders profiting from a schedule 1 drug?

      • Duncan20903 says:


        There’s nothing that the government can do to stockholders. But you’re mistaken that the principals of these companies are making a profit from anything other than selling worthless stock to the gullible. You can make money playing their game but only if your either lucky or actually know which game that you’re playing. That you think that there’s anything except a game that’s almost as old as the stock market tells me that you don’t know the name of the game that’s being played. The name of the game is “there’s a sucker born every second.” I made a lot of money playing the don’t pass line in that game when the object of fraud was the Internet.

    • ezrydn says:

      I sure wish they were included in Forex trading, which I do all freaking day. Twenty to forty percent gain is sweet. Drop Apple and Google and list Mary and Jane. Now, that’s a trade I’d take in a heartbeat. Great then. I’ve got another target to work on this year. I’m already banking a grand a day, trading the 6 JPY pair minus GBP. Yes, every day! It’s easy!!! I know the game and I play it extremely well. Well enough to live off it and have all the goodies I want.

  15. Custard/Theory/Explained says:

    A major bottleneck in understanding Custard has been the innate flaws found in humankind’s analysis of both poly-spatial & multidimensional dynamics. But many informed authorities now sincerely believe that Custard may indeed represent a divine unfolding of the all-pervading-female-power. There may also be several propositions and expositions about its indefiniteness, but it still remains mysterious, leading to an inevitable emphasis on the non-infinite limits of antheral practice and knowledge. 

    Unpretentiously put; Custardial Modality (CM) is thought to provide a new understanding of how intrinsic evolution of consciousness invariably includes those areas and disciplines not (until very recently at least) remotely considered as being connected to Integral Trans-formative Practice —such as business, education or even International Plumper Wrestling (IPW).

    Furthermore; in attempting to introduce a more universal and holistic approach to the crème-moulée-experience, CM is now highly promoted by many of its academic aficionados as going far beyond rationalism, even to the point of aggressively denying their own reality.


I sincerely hope that’s cleared a few things up.

  16. Duncan20903 says:

    I swear I’ve seen more male flowers in cannabis articles in the last month than I’ve seen in all previous articles combined.

    • darkcycle says:

      Even worse when those “bananas” are mixed into the buds that came from highly recommended and expensive seeds. Like what just happened to old darkcycle. Just like throwin’ $120 bucks right into the compost pile.

      • claygooding says:

        send it to me dark,,I will dispose of it in the best way possible,,and I like morphidite seeda.

        • John says:

          Why do you like hermaphrodite weed Clay?

        • darkcycle says:

          You don’t want these Clay. Really. Trust me.

        • claygooding says:

          Hermaphrodite seeds are feminized seeds and every one produces a female plant,,not every plant turns and a strain I use now has lost no detectable potency while out of 6 plants I get appx 10>15 seeds each harvest. It makes it easy to fill your cabinets using feminized seeds.
          Marijuana producing a few seeds does not lose it’s potency enough to detect the drop in thc without a machine to test it with,,0.2% is the figure given in the Growers Bible meaning if you have a 12% thc strain that seeds it becomes 11.8% thc.
          I have smoked seeded weed my whole life and a lot of it was excellent.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        You know that could have been your fault DC. I know of a guy who suffered having an entire room grown from clones of proven stock take a walk on the wild side because the cooling system froze up and the temp got up to 97°F. Those high-low temp thermometers are worth the extra bucks. But the silver lining in that cloud was that he subsequently got hit by rippers and they got piles and piles of seeds. Getting ripped is never something to smile about but if you get ripped losing a bunch of accidental hermies is the least annoying rip that I can think of. On the other hand those should have been feminized seeds but he didn’t get the opportunity to find out. There was no male DNA in that room.

        • darkcycle says:

          Environmental control is my specialty. Low, 68F, Peak 78F. Ten degrees of variation. I have four lights, 24,000btu’s of AC (AC is currently down, but it’s winter time) and 750 watts of heat (never needed it, since I’m indoors, but it pays to be prepared), environmental monitors including humidity and temps, at plant level (for radiant temps) and again at above the level of lights (air temps). My light timers are spot on and my room is light tight and black as a cave. Soil pH 6.8
          I e-mailed the breeders and they admitted the problem and are supposedly sending replacements. But I’m wary now.

  17. allan says:

    Oregon has a bill before the legislature, SB 281, that would add PTSD to the accepted conditions list under the OMMP. Yesterday there was a hearing in Salem. Here’s a gut check video (5 min) of testimony offered by Jose Garza, an OR veteran with PTSD:

    Jose Garza Veteran with PTSD

    • War Vet says:

      Good Video. How many people are smart enough to recognize that legal medical pot before and after 9/11 kept at least 300 U.S. soldiers from dieing in the Middle East by taking away drug money from the black market. You have mentioned earlier that you don’t dislike cops and see them with unbiased eyes. But since the War on Drugs directly funds terrorism and since the War on Drugs is protected and operated by the common cop, I can accurately state that I’ve seen the vast majority of every cop in America try to kill me and kill my friends and blow up American buildings. The American cop is a defaulted ally of Al Qaeda . . . because the prohibs and various politicians are stating through laws that cops have the right to arrest you for drugs -this is why I call such various prohibs and politicians, ‘Muslim Terrorist Sympathizers’ . . . just like why you would call a white male destroying an American War factory in 1942: A Nazi Sympathizer. Of course don’t forget what the DEA did to Mumbai, India in 2008 and the DEA were warned. Pakistan is too dangerous of a game for the DEA to be playing in this day in age . . . its safer if they just stayed with Latin America and the Caribbean when releasing snitches from prison . . . Jihad isn’t very fashionable in those places.

      I hope Oregon recognizes PTSD as being valid for Medical Pot.

    • ezrydn says:


      I have a 100% PTSD rating. I watched as my squad leader triggered a boobytrap and turned into an immediate pink mist. After I got out, I began having “the problems.” The thoughts of anger and rage were “sticky.” I couldn’t get rid of them. Then, I was given a joint by a caring friend. As soon as I started smoking, the thoughts became “slippery” and left as soon as they appeared. I prefer an Indica over a sativa. One hit does the trick and the trick has now been practiced nightly for the past 45 years! All my edu was during my use also, dean’s list, free grants, everything.

      Yes, Cannabis takes care of PTSD. Thank God!

      • darkcycle says:

        Seriously. I was fighting fights long gone, and ones that never occurred. I was fighting battles off in the future that hadn’t occurred and might not, and fighting new battles in me head with people I hadn’t seen in decades and wouldn’t again.
        And I had bad sleep issues. I didn’t even realize how bad it was until it stopped. I thought EVERY one was constantly fighting. All taken care of, and that’s not even why I started using pot medicinally.
        Without it, I have no peace.

        • Primus says:

          What variety do you find gives the most relief? I have not yet found one that really works, though all help somewhat.

        • allan says:

          Keith Mansur (editor Oregon Cannabis Connection) has a long piece on the hearing over at TokeSignals:

          Dr Grinspoon phoned in, as did Michael Krawitz, Dr Lucido and more. I think Oregonian cannabists have again found how effective working together is. Great write-up by Keith.

          The state of Oregon stores all audio files from hearings online. If anyone wants it, say so and I’ll post it here.

        • darkcycle says:

          I’m using mostly indica/sativa mix. The Indicas seem to do better for the PTSD thing. And I use rather alot. The symptoms of the PTSD didn’t ease until I raised my intake considerably over what you could call “recreational”. In fact, I’ve mostly smoked myself straight, as the old saying goes. But buzziness aside, the theraputic effects are most assuredly still there.

      • War Vet says:

        Yeah, I’ve got a friend who’ll die in maybe a decade because of drink. The first people he killed were some little kids no younger than 14 or 11, but there was nothing he could do since they all had AKs. I’ve got another friend who hurt his spine when his Lt’s torso hit him like a speeding car and caused his back plate to smash against a rock, thus crushing some nerves . . . he cannot sleep and he talks about taking meds that take away joy and pain, just leaves you numb -no sadness and no happiness.

        Are you a member of the VFW EZ? I think the VFW would be a good start in getting approval and lobbyists for medical pot for PTSD and pain management since we have a lot of pull in State and Federal levels.

        In the old days it was: you are for drug legalization, you must be a drug addict.
        Today: you oppose drug legalization –then you must be pro-Al Qaeda and think 9/11 was a good thing. That’s the mindset amongst our 20 and 30 something’s who can recognize that the American Dream had been yanked out from under them because of the War on Drugs and its documented $3 trillion plus in enforcement in just one decade alone (Brown University and NY Times report on the Cost of 9/11 and War on Terror.) One day this will all be over and I hope I can afford the seats to the new Nuremberg Trial. Anyone who can justify killing people just to keep drugs illegal needs to be tried . . . we’ll have plenty of good ol’ American hemp rope by then.

      • Cliff says:

        EZ, and all vets here need to be aware that the recent atrocities being committed by a few mentally ill, young males armed with civilian semi auto weapons will bring the wrong type of attention to mental illness, especially PTSD as it is being treated as a mental disorder with some pretty heavy drugs. Also it is illegal to own any firearms while possessing or under the influence of any CSA scheduled drugs.

        If the Pandora’s Box of mental health and/or medical cannabis records are used, in conjunction with background checks, to buy a firearm, a PTSD diagnosis or a red card for medical cannabis could be an automatic flag to deny that person the 2nd Amendment RIGHT (not privilege or government granted permission) to bear arms and thus defend him or herself.

        Who knows what may result from the recent panic legislation being proposed to control the sale and possession of firearms. We only have history to show us that lists of any kind being collected by government can and will be used for any number of purposes to neutralize opposition, even if it is only symbolic (/snark). The straw man question, “Who can fight the US military with only rifles and pistols?”, is pure BS. Ask the old USSR how the Mujahideen beat them with WWI bolt action rifles, a few Stinger Missles and fighting on their home turf, with home made intel networks and living in caves, tunnels and spider holes.

        So, welcome home brave, loyal and honorable veteran! Thanks for your service to the USSA. Got PTSD? That’s too bad. Better not talk about it, because if you do, you’ll need to turn in your personal firearms or be labeled a criminal in the country you fought for. You will be deemed defective as a human being and must be disarmed. Thanks for playing and paying.

  18. A Group of Drug War Profiteers Are Asking Eric Holder to Stop Legal Pot in Colorado and Washington

    Mike Riggs at Reason.

    Mike nailed it by calling them profiteers if you ask me.

    • allan says:

      a working definition of hyperbole :

      The head of the National Narcotic Officers Association Coalition […] has testified that liberalizing America’s drug laws–even those restricting marijuana–“will make the loss of life from the September 11th attacks pale by comparison.”

      Yeah, we know… but hey Mel Sembler is in there too so it’s a really nutty crew. Carpetbaggging perverts.

    • strayan says:

      National Association of Drug Court Professionals

      How predictable.

    • Peter says:

      kennedy s letter shows just how he sees the “smart balance” between prohibition and legalization. after paragraphs about the “risks” of cannabis he throws in one short sentence as an after thought about not stigmatising those in recovery from addiction. this is the new third way

  19. kaptinemo says:

    The head of the National Narcotic Officers Association Coalition […] has testified that liberalizing America’s drug laws–even those restricting marijuana–”will make the loss of life from the September 11th attacks pale by comparison.”

    I did say that the more desperate they’d become, they’d get ever more batsh*t crazy, didn’t I?

    And, Anslinger still hold the prize for hyperbole:

    ““If the hideous monster Frankenstein came face to face with the monster marihuana, he would drop dead of fright.”

    And Anslinger wasn’t as desperate as these goofs are getting…

  20. Peter says:

    Someone in MI didn’t get the memo about the direction of history:

    • kaptinemo says:

      I hate to say this, but I am not surprised in the least. The pushback is thoroughly predictable.

      It cannot be any clearer now: it’s full-on relegalization or nothing. Freedom for all, or none are free, and the MMJ people are learning this to their sorrow.

      Medical users are perched out on a limb, vulnerable to attack, in many ways no less so now than when the medical cannabis efforts began. They’re fish in a barrel. Meat on the table. ‘Soft targets’.

      As they learned in CA, these piecemeal attacks will not stop until cannabis is once again legal for all to grow, possess, use, trade, sell, etc. Anyone who thinks that their special legal status will protect them ( being an MMJ patient vis-a-vis those who are not) are realizing the price of their delusion of safety is getting ever more expensive, in every dimension.

      At the risk of raising some rancor, I and others had warned about the complacency that many MMJ people exhibited in MMJ States, especially in CA. Many recreational users were instrumental in getting the Props passed in the mid-1990’s which led to the flourishing of MMJ…and the flourishing of those who profited by it remaining prohibited, keeping the price artificially inflated.

      That many of those in CA who profited so hugely by those efforts of those who could not enjoy the outcome would later make common cause with our opponents to keep the rest of their fellow citizens from enjoying legal status, well, let’s just say the later crackdown is simple karma. And a warning to us all.

      For, just as there is no such thing as being ‘ a little bit pregnant’ there is no such thing as being ‘a little bit free’. It’s not a Chinese menu, with some things selected and others discarded; it’s the whole enchilada or nothing. Relegalization is the latter, and I’m awful damn ‘hungry’ for that particular kind of ‘food’. How about you?

      • darkcycle says:

        I have a lot of activist friends in Cal. Every time they scream about the Feds pulling down another dispensary I think of the green opposition to Prop 19 and I-502, and I shake my head.

        • claygooding says:

          It is getting hard to find any toker in CA that voted against Prop 19,,and the people that preached against it seem to have disappeared,,almost like they were paid trolls.

      • allan says:

        the issue has always been about cannabis. Not just medical marijuana or hemp or “recreational”… and we were made weaker by the division. Fragmented and acting at odds we’ve shot ourselves (speaking as “the cannabis movement”) in the foot, over and over and over (hayno, hayno, hayno). And the one ring to bind them all? Legalization!

        I’ll add my “I told you so.”

  21. Duncan20903 says:


    It appears that high muckamucks at The Discovery Channel really likes cannabis oriented “reality” shows.

    A drug cartel is a serious criminal organization, there’s a lot of money to be made and when there’s a lot of money to be made, there is a higher potential for violence,” SWAT team member, Deputy Greg Musson – who stars in the show – told FOX411’s Pop Tarts column.

    Haven’t we heard that Mr. Kerlikowske fellow say that keeping the price artificially high is one of the social benefits of cannabis prohibition? Would that make it fair to conclude that the ONDCP is in favor of promoting higher levels of criminal violence?


    I just have one item that for the life of me I can’t figure out…why in the world are these things called “reality” shows? They certainly don’t revolve around people who are in touch with reality, or are even aware of the now 10 year old Medical Marijuana Program Act.

    “We are not interested in interfering with people who have a legitimate marijuana license for their own personal use, and contrary to popular belief, it is not legal to grow marijuana for profit. It is illegal even with the license,” Musson insisted. “It is also illegal to give it away, just as it is to sell it. Even if you have a medical need. That’s the main thing we would like to get out there to people.”

    • Peter says:

      deputy greg musson may not look like the sharpest knife in the drawer but at least he knows which side of his bread is buttered. i’d love to know how this propaganda was funded

  22. kaptinemo says:

    Again, I must apologize for a long missive, but something has occured to me over the past few days that cuts to the heart of our endeavors. Something whose effects will have reverberations in all directions, far and wide, and I feel it needs discussion.

    The winds of change are soon to reach hurricane force, but perhaps for a reason few have yet to guess.

    I’ve said it before and I will keep saying it: drug law reform is much more than setting a century-old wrong right again; it is the vanguard of peaceful social revolution via the ballot box. The vast majority of the latest generation is making it abundantly clear that they don’t want the authoritarian-sired DrugWar,and everything that comes with it.

    Consider: do you think the voters around the country who want reform, the very same voters replacing those who obstructed us all these years, are willing to continue paying for a DrugWar they want to scrap?

    The answer should be obvious. But the ramifications are politically earth-shaking:

    A generation targeted as ‘marks’ by the propaganda organs of the ‘con men’ of drug prohibition, in hopes that they would replace the earlier ‘marks’ of the previous generation and thus continue the ‘con’, have said they want no part of the game. And that means they don’t want to pay for it with their taxes.

    If the Federal government moves against the States that have relegalized it would nullify democracy, If the pols don’t ‘get the message’, then We the People will have received one that the system is hopelessly corrupt and in need of changing. The last vestiges of Uncle’s tattered, thread-bare legitimacy will have been swept away.

    By their doing so, We the People will be told that our vote doesn’t count AT ALL, in the very worst way. The last scraps of the already-cracked mask hiding the fascism will fall away, revealing what reformers knew was there all along…but this time, EVERYONE will see it.

    The dangers of that are incalculable. If the pols attempt any kind of paternalism by insisting that they know better, don’t bother me about reform, the DrugWarriors tell me we’re winning the war so we must ‘stay the course’, blah, blah, blah, when that war is being funded by those who don’t want to, then the political rubber will finally meet the road…and the road wins every time. And We the People are the road.

    • claygooding says:

      I keep the wasted tax dollars in a lot of my posts and the government has done nothing that advances any form of success at stopping drugs because they are so busy on all fronts that the phrase “one legged man in an ass kicking contest” would be the analogy best fitting the entire drug war machine.

      Just fighting the legalization movement in the US would keep them pretty busy but nations around the world are making ending the war on drugs a priority and legalization is an option they are looking at,,all have to be either bought out or threatened back into the fold of prohibition for it to continue,,and the clock is ticking on when even the drug warriors can’t meet the costs,,,another downgrade on US credit is imminent,,,I think that is why Lehey and McConnell are making noises about ending the wod and legalizing hemp,,IMO

      • allan says:

        they are so busy on all fronts that the phrase “one legged man in an ass kicking contest” would be the analogy best fitting the entire drug war machine.

        pardon, clay, but with the Prohibitionists wouldn’t that be:

        “they are so busy on all fronts that the phrase “one legged man in an ass KISSING contest” would be the analogy best fitting the entire drug war machine.” Just sayin’…

    • claygooding says:

      I do not know how anyone expects to keep big business out of marijuana and expect that prohibition will end quicker if they get into it.

      With all the seed companies out there and all the personal grows in this country today,,not even counting the ones that will start the minute big business enters the game,,seeds are too easy to produce for them to “control” anything,,if they couldn’t eradicate the plant they can’t control it either.

      • War Vet says:

        You bet your ass Oklahoma will sell OG Kush at 7% THC and Sour Diesel at the same, just like Coors beer only contains 3.2% ALC . . . just like all Miller and Bud products contain only 3.2% ALC.

        • darkcycle says:

          Since the genetics determine the potency, it won’t be OG Kush they’ll be selling at 7% THC…

        • War Vet says:

          But that won’t stop them from labeling it that . . . didn’t someone create a THC free weed? Would it not be possible to alter any Kush strain and reduce the levels of THC without really altering the taste, color or texture of the weed? Of course this will mean that you cannot buy your weed while it is refrigerated, only in room temp if you want it to have higher THC content . . . Not that refrigeration or room temp has anything to do with weed that’s just how the law works in regard to alcohol: Cold beer is 3.2% ALC –while liquor, wine and 6pt beer is sold in room temp stores, unless you get it from a bar with a liquor license.

          But Kush and Indicas will probably refer to only Mexican strains in the future of early legal weed in Oklahoma. Oklahoma is so backwards that many are reporting to discover that they are growing gills and going back into the water.

        • Duncan20903 says:

          Yes War Vet, it’s called “hemp”.

      • kaptinemo says:

        Another thing most don’t consider: that today’s hemp and weed seeds are free of Monsanto’s and Archer-Daniel-Midlands GM tampering. The so-called ‘criminal’ market has kept seed stock preserved and free from whatever legal (and legally ghastly) ‘improvements’ Big Agro has made to our food supply.

        THIS BASIC PURITY MUST BE MAINTAINED. Right now, given the huge percentage of our food having been ‘modified’, it’s almost impossible to eat anything that hasn’t been genetically tampered with. And given the natural superiority of hemp-based foods, they would provide a safe harbor of sorts to those who have acquired allergies to those modified foods.

        • darkcycle says:

          I fully agree, Kap’n. Monsanto messes with my favorite plant it’s gonna really pee me off. I don’t get mad easily, but that could make me postal.

        • claygooding says:

          If I understand it correctly,,Soros is Mansanto,,please correct me if I am wrong.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          Nah, Mr. Soros is the Devil in human form.

          You know, I’ve never gotten why people are so bent out of shape by Monsanto. Don’t like their products? Don’t buy them. I kind of like spending less than 3% of my day to be able to feed myself. If you want to go back to the days when people spent more than 60% of their lives just to provide themselves food, feel free to do so. Don’t expect me to join in.

      • primus says:

        Everyone is assuming that following relegalisation the products will be the same as they are now, and that the crops will be grown in country. It is far more likely that none of the legal supply will be grown here, all will be imported from Mexico etc. There will also be a plethora of different products manufactured from cannabis, including edibles, oils, infusions, tinctures, hashish, kif and so on. Most people won’t smoke cannabis, they will vaporize or eat it. By only allowing imported cannabis and either irradiating it to kill the seeds or processing it into other products without seeds, and continuing to hound local growers out of business they will eventually control it all.

        • darkcycle says:

          In order for that to happen, we have to let it. We overgrew prohibition, we can overgrow regulation, too.
          Imports? we already have ’em. And they are frankly inferior. You will never be able to mechanize farming for drug cannabis. If you grow it on an industrial scale, you get ‘mersch (commercial). Make hash from commercial, you get soapbar (as it’s referred to in England)grade hash. Water hash is better and more pure, and small batches of water hash are better than big ones (easier to control). There’s a lot of craft that goes into good reefer and extracts.
          I see a difficult road ahead for mass produced products.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          Why in the world would we import cheap muscatel when we can grow all the Dom Perignon that our little hearts could desire in our own back yard?

          You’re also presuming that the Mexicans will have the good sense to end their prohibitionist idiocy. My observation is that they’re even more stupid on the issue than we are. Yes I know it’s hard to believe that’s even possible. Even I have to constantly remind myself to believe my own eyes.

    • darkcycle says:

      Ha, looks like some folks at Alternet didn’t like my take on the issue. Oh well. Facts is facts.

  23. allan says:

    careful folks! there’s bricks falling everywhere:

    Yesterday, the Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2013 was introduced into the U.S. House by Reps. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) and Kurt Schrader (D-Ore.). A companion bill is expected to be introduced in the Senate later this month.

    This is the fifth time a federal hemp bill has been introduced since 2005, which doesn’t exactly inspire confidence in its chances of success. However: The first four times, it was mainly sponsored by Ron Paul. This time the bill has 30 cosponsors, eight of whom are Republicans.

  24. claygooding says:

    Pot Legalization Goes Federal

    “”A new effort is under way in Congress to legalize marijuana.

    After Colorado and Washington became the first two states to approve the sale and use of pot, marijuana advocates are turning their eye toward the federal government – something they don’t often do.

    Members of Congress will introduce between eight and 10 bills to roll back federal marijuana restrictions and levy new taxes.

    The first two were introduced this week by two liberal members of Congress. Reps. Jared Polis, D-Colo., and Earl Blumenauer, D-Ore., on Monday rolled out a pair of bills that would legalize and tax marijuana at the federal level, while still allowing states to ban it.””

    Here comes the train!!!!!

    • kaptinemo says:

      A Sabet-free article! How refreshing! Guess maybe the media is figuring out he’s just another DrugWar grifter…

    • allan says:

      chugga-chugga-chugga chugga-chugga-chugga Choom Choom! 300 mph and loaded w/ freight… I have to thank Pat Kennedy for that metaphor.

      Don’t lay yourself down on the track Patrick, like the weapons train that de-legged Brian Wilson in Oakland in the early ’80s, this one ain’t stoppin’ either.

  25. claygooding says:

    McConnell recently came out in support of hemp legalization and today I saw two articles reporting his involvement with less than popular bills and actions by the Republican party,,the “smear” campaign has started on him,,,the msm will have him as a stark raving pedophile if necessary to make his support’s effectiveness negligible.

  26. War Vet says:

    So, are we going to see Coffee Shops in Colorado and Washington? Are they going to allow us to smoke at the cafes like in Amsterdam? I don’t remember weed ever being sold at a store where one can only buy and must leave . . . will the states allow weed to be sold at the cafes and then allow the patrons to smoke it? Will they let you leave with your weed at the weed bars, unlike most places that frown on putting your beer in a ‘to go cup’?

    • Deep Dish says:

      Those are good questions. It’s hard to answer with clarity but it’s at least a possibility in Colorado.

      • darkcycle says:

        Not gonna happen in Washington. Our anti smoking laws flat out forbid smoking in public venues. The ONLY exception is Casinos (wonder how they got THAT? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$).

        • Peter says:

          what about vaping in public? or eating brownies? The point of the smoking ban surely is to protect other people who don’t want smoke mixed in with their air supply…that seems resonable to me. I can see authorities banning all public consumption though, not matter what the means of ingestion… I think we’re in message sending territory

        • darkcycle says:

          Public display is banned. I know, I know, it’s absurd and it sucks. But those concessions were made to get the thing passed.

        • Windy says:

          They got that because the casinos are technically on Indian Trust land or actually on reservations and, as sovereign nations, they not subject to WA laws or taxes on alcohol or tobacco products.

        • darkcycle says:

          That’s the excuse HERE. There is cigarette smoking in every casino in the U.S. (at least any I have ever seen or heard about). Where they don’t have a first Nation’s excuse, they bribe legislators until they’re given exemptions.

    • Cliff says:

      That’s what we get, when we want cannabis regulated like alcohol, “open container laws” or 0.05 BAC for DWAI anyone? The pushback by the prohibitionists will be as predictable as the turning of the seasons.

      I forsee with almost total certitude that we will also witness the increased proliferation of the unconstitutional and knee jerk DUI/DUID checkpoints to make sure that additional revenues from those who are unfortunate enough to get caught will be collected. You will see that the checkpoints will be using an arbitrary, capricious and very low blood concentration of THC as the definition of per se impairment, thus to increase the odds in favor of the Jackboots.

      Who wants to bet that those who get caught at the checkpoints won’t end up in the byzantine drug treatment industrial complex, complete with random drug testing and additional costs for failing said drug tests?

      I don’t want to be right about this, but I see too many opportunities for the prohibitionists to use the same playbook as MADD did.

      • War Vet says:

        Knowing such things to come will help us. This of course is why I’ve been trying to say (here, everywhere, to politicians, in my book, on FB, in newspapers etc) that the CSA Laws are illegal according to Federal Legal Standards and even 9/11 and the DEA herself have proved that the CSA laws are illegal on a Federal Level because it forces cops to help Al Qaeda by keeping drugs illegal for them in the future and present, since treason trumps all Federal Law . . . it’s the old Question: Does Federal Law Trump Federal Law? The quicker we demonize the cops by way of reason and facts, the less power they will have . . . also, the more of our youngens without arrest records to join the ranks of the police, the more diluted the system will be. Of course this is also where I bump heads with a lot of my fellow couch mates . . . I haven’t been able to prove to them that there are no Federal Laws stating drugs are illegal after 9/11 if said Federal Law (which brings power to the U.N. Single Law) creates the ability to arm our enemies . . . while the law enforcers know that such laws create a drug black market capable of financing gangs and our enemies (which shows intent to break the law and cause violence with the law via a lack of ignorance since the consequences of the law are known yet ignored daily). Even the Feds admit drug money created 9/11 and the vast majority of our dead and the Feds know their law creates this, which means the CSA law is not valid and doesn’t need Congress or the President to dismiss the CSA laws since the protection of the State trumps Federal Law during a time of war. Treason is a federal felony and drug enforcement is treason because the average cop and judge or DOJ worker knows their job creates a drug black market and has created a black market ever since the dope was first outlawed, which shows that the CSA (and U.N. Law) is the physical body of the drug black market herself, which makes the CSA laws illegal because it’s illegal to pass a law that requires violations of that law and other laws through cause and effect mechanisms found inside the function of the law in the first place.

        The CSA law is only valid if any form of trade/barter economy is illegal . . . it’s only legal to arrest someone for drugs if workers don’t get paid to work and if people are not allowed to purchase or trade for consumer goods. Basically speaking, the true validity of the CSA law rests in the fact that all workers regardless of job, receive the same amount of food, electricity, plumbing, housing space (in regards to family unit size), transportation access and healthcare . . . if the CSA law is legal, then it’s illegal for Americans to own a car, let alone use money to buy gas or groceries because terrorists and gangsters use the same kind of money to harm the public and her nation’s soldiers –the same kind of legal tender that pays bills, pays to kill as well. What cop, judge or politician wants to be associated with Radical Pol-Pot Marxist views since a compliant cop or prohib must admit free trade and capitalism is ethically and legally wrong? Salary and hourly wages are illegal in America as long as the CSA law is legally valid and even the Federal Government will attest to this because the Federal Government makes treason illegal during a time of war, nor is the Federal Government equipped to wipe out a trade/barter style economy right off the bat. The Day drug users stop using money to buy drugs or stop offering drug dealers an equal trade for drug value (like gasoline, weapons or groceries etc), is the day the CSA law becomes valid, which means all legal money/ buying transactions would also have to stop as well to make sure money or consumer goods aren’t used to purchase drugs. Of course this is just political philosophy and I think the American people are ready to see the game played out according to its own rules, instead of allowing law makers to violate laws with said law(s).

        Because the average good natured American citizen cannot find 9/11 or the War on Terror being acceptable losses and consequences to our drug laws, I find it impossible for any Prohib to not be able to prove with a rational argument that he or she isn’t pro-Al Qaeda when drug enforcement clearly created 9/11 and the 1993 WTC bombing etc . . . the best way any prohib can demonstrate they are against Al Qaeda is by donating over half their income to pro-U.S. Military Causes –since they know their prohibition efforts are literally taking money out of the DoD, VA, State Dept, Nat Security, etc, therefore they are obliged by morality and ethics to donate over half their income to prove their loyalty to the U.S. . . . if they refuse, then we can demonize them with more facts, reason and logic than their very own ‘Devil Weed Refer Madness’ propaganda. Who said propaganda had to be a bad word? For years, we’ve been battling the law by showing them hypocrisy with alcohol and states rights, science and the freedom of adult human choice . . . This has taken over 80yrs to work (considering the partial victories in Colorado and Washington) . . . I say it’s time for a little Louisiana Hot Sauce to spice it up . . . what cop or politician wants to be seen as someone who knew they were helping Al Qaeda with the law? Even the DEA and CIA have verified this in their documents . . . why not utilize our enemies ammo for our good? I have proof when blaming the small town cop for the death of our American troops –can they prove they are not to blame? If every cop just said ‘NO’, then many nations from around the world would likewise end prohibition, thus proving cops were responsible (at least 50%) for 9/11 and any death to any U.S. soldier after 9/11 since drug money created a military feeding frenzy supported by the People . . . The CSA gave birth to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, which makes the CSA law illegal and a Federal Law Violation. Can anyone disprove of this political theory . . . my experience from inside the system? Does it not behoove me to be proven wrong so I can wipe the dirt from my own face if indeed I am wrong about the above ideas?

        Of course, no takers are proving my validity in the way I see the War on Terror: The Total Fault of the Average American Cop, thus proving it is a felony offense to arrest people for drugs and there are no laws in America outlawing drugs if said law finances an enemy of the State and attacks the State. Had not Drug prohibition financed gangs and terrorists and drug dealers and drug cartels, the CSA would be legal. But King Jr. said that all bad laws are not legal legitimate laws and I very much approve of his theory. When did Congress sign the Bill: ‘It’s OK to help Al Qaeda and the Taliban’? They didn’t, hence this is proof we have no laws in America making drugs illegal. The law was proven invalid years ago –maybe on September 11, 2001 or maybe on the 10th year of the War in Afghanistan. Of course this won’t stop cops from illegally arresting you for a kilo of heroin or a joint or illegally placing you behind bars, which proves cops are working as a coup or a bunch of secessionist rebels making up their own laws the way the Confederacy made up their own (though illegally attached by the IRS’s ability to pay them with our taxes). The DOJ does not legally belong to the United States of America, nor does the DOJ legally belong to the Federal Government . . . Congress never passed laws allowing DEA agents and local cops, DAs and judges to give financial aid to Osama Bin Laden via the laws ability to generate money, which proves the DOJ has illegally broken away from the United States of America and the Federal Government.

      • darkcycle says:

        Face it. It is unrealistic to imagine no restrictions on driving and where and when it’s consumed. You may as well ask for a puppy and unicorns for every six year old.
        you do realize we have a public that has been lied to at every turn and VERY heavily propagandized. They’ve only just now come around to support the end of this, and MOST of them don’t even know what it is they are supporting. They only know that the drug war isn’t seeming to work the way it was sold.
        If we’d given in to your concerns about the DUI laws and voted against 502, we may not have even HAD the victory we just enjoyed.

  27. Irie says:

    Here’s another, by yours truly, Paul Chabot……and the “hits” (to that brick wall) just keep coming….go get ’em Veronica!!!

    • Polly/fill/that/bong/up says:


      Comment thread excerpts:

      “Chabot knows all about trickery, after all someone tricked his mother into not drowning him at birth.”

      “Chabot is a true heir to the maniacal zealotry of Anslinger. Illogical, irrational, self-serving lackeys who neither grant not deserve quarter. It is time for the kind, gentle people who have wronged by such fools to engage in self-help.”

      “Yes, because billions of dollars spent to incarcerate marijuana users is a good idea. (Sigh)”

    • claygooding says:

      I missed your post and re-posted this,,my comment at HP:

      “””The problem is we’re being out-funded and out-gunned by wealthy billionaires who are buying ad campaigns and using trickery in their words talking about all this nonsense,” Chabot continued.

      And funding the “No” campaign was the federal government which has the record for talking nonsense about marijuana.

      “””Look, what we have to come back to is one solid point,” Chabot concluded: “What kind of community, what kind of state, what kind of nation do we want to raise our kids in today?”

      One without people like Paul Chabot!!

    • kaptinemo says:

      I knew it.

      I knew they’d start saying that s–t.

      ‘Trickery’, huh? Maybe like the institutionalized trickery and lies told by prohibs about cannabis in the first place? And as far as funding, with the almost infinute fiscal pockets the prohibs had, courtesy of our taxes being used to lie to us, talking about the comparatively microscopic amounts the Three Wise Men (as I call them) have donated is like a hugley obese man, with bulbous lobes of fat hanging off every angle, pointing to an anorexic and complaining that the walking skeleton is eating too much. Pure DEA/ONDCP ‘Playbook’. (They’ve been saying the same thing for almost 20 years now.)

      You can always count on authoritarians to devalue the intelligence of their fellow citizens when said fellow citizens refuse to adhere to the authoritarians’s pet neuroses. McCaffery did that back in 1996 just a few days after Props 200 and 215 passed, insulting the intelligence of EVERYONE WHO VOTED FOR MMJ IN ARIZONA AND CALIFORNIA. He’s lucky he wasn’t lynched for insulting his paymasters, back then..

      Chabot, et al just don’t get it. They’re not talking to benighted, ignorant, pre-Watergate Leave it to Beaver GrandMa and GrandPa who believed anything the Gub’mint told them. Not anymore. GrandMa and GranPa are leaving the social and political stage, by the thousands every day, as age and infirmity and death take their toll, removing them from the voting rolls.

      The prohibs are not talking to people who are ignorant about cannabis; on the contrary, they’re spewing their (stale, old) nonsense at millions of people who know the truth about cannabis…and they know who was telling them lies about about it, all these years, too. WHICH IS WHY THEY VOTED THE WAY THEY DID.

      I said it before, and I’ll say it again: The more the prohibs get backed into the corner, when they come out fighting, the more foaming, wide-eyed, batsh*t crazy they’ll get, and the more rabidly authoritarian they’ll demonstrate they truly are, showing the public how they really feel about that public.

      The more the public sees that, the more likely they’ll be to vote our way, if only to give the prohibs an electorily-delivered bitch-slap for their intellectual insults and their insufferable arrogance.

      Rejoice, friends! These are just the kind of desperation tactics I’ve been expecting. The kind that fanatics make just before their final fall.

      So, please…rave on, Chabot, rave on! You’re making it so easy for us. Thank you!

      • kaptinemo says:

        Commenter ‘stcancer’ from the article:

        “I believe when we Coloradans voted to legalize we made it loud and clear the kind of world we want to live in. I find it infuriating that people mired in regressive policy, sit in their beltway ivory towers, and tell us that we don’t know what we are doing, or what we want to achieve.Colorado has spoken, and you can either choose to listen, or you can just get out of the way, because we are moving forward.”

        See what I mean? Chabot and Company just don’t understand that they are not addressing children but adults. Adults that rankle when they’re being addressed as if they were children. Adults who can vote, and now will have ever more reason to vote…and to demand that their Reps and Senators vote to cut the funding of organizations such as ONDCP and DEA for being so damnably insulting.

        • Servetus says:

          There’s another facet to their lying, Kapn’, the kind that comes from talking themselves into believing their own hype.

          How else is any prosecutor or judge in good conscience going to send some harmless bloke up the river for ten years for growing weed? At some point, cognitive dissonance sets it, or for the more zealously mind, mind numbing true belief.

          The belief situation was the reason drug war criminal Bill Bennett got mandatory minimums invoked for drug offenses. He himself said it was to prevent judges from limiting the draconian nature of drug trials and punishment.

          Bennett also said drug merchants should be beheaded. Perhaps the next time he and Paul Chabot are sucking down scotch whiskey in Saudi Arabia, the local prohibition fanatics can accommodate them both.

          And yes, it will get crazier:

          The last struggles of a great superstition are very frequently the worst. – Andrew Dixon White, History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom (1896), Vol II, p. 123.

        • Peter says:

          Servetus…I think it is worth emphasizing Chabot’s religious obsession as part of his motivation as a drug warrior. He has a childish black and white view of the world in which everyone is either a good guy or an evil do-er. When he talks about a country safe to “bring up children” I have to ask if he’s really talking about naive adults like himself. His absurd book about evil reads like it was written by a 12 year old.

        • Servetus says:

          Chabot’s words betray a beacon-on-a-hill vision of American society, one often adhered to by the religious right. Religious types and authoritarians are nearly always obsessed with fears of social decadence, as when Chabot asks rhetorically what kind of society we want to live in. And he’s pointlessly condescending to Veronica Carpio in an authoritarian sort of way. It’s obvious Paul Chabot can’t stop being a cop.

          Not all authoritarians are religious, but most of those who side with the extreme religious right are authoritarians. He’s no social historian, even though he pretends to be, which is another characteristic of the religious right.

          I’d say Chabot is an authoritarian follower trying to become an authoritarian leader. Religion may play a part in his periphery, or maybe even the core of his belief system. At the moment, I can’t tell.

        • darkcycle says:

          Ever seen his book, Servetus? “The Eternal Battle Between Good and Evil”? No need to read, just a quick look at the hardcover’s sleeve should end any uncertainties on your part….

        • Servetus says:

          Ah yes, the book cover. I vaguely remember commenting on the cover once before as looking like something originating from a Christian-focused vanity press. It shows way too much military flourish, even for a Christian crusader like Chabot.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          Mr. Chabot was indoctrinated by his parents, who sent him sent to re-edumactation when he was 12 for the fiction of merrywanna addiction:

          But he still has to compensate for the teeny weenie peenie as we can see in his campaign photo:

  28. Nunavut Tripper says:

    Some good news from Canuckistan:

    “Cannabis crusader Robert Erb is doing his part to legalize herb.

    The marijuana advocate from Terrace, B.C., became $25 million richer after winning the Lotto Max jackpot on Nov. 2.

    Now, the 60-year-old seasonal construction worker is pledging $500,000 towards the fight to decriminalize marijuana.

    “The biggest social injustice I’ve seen in all my entire lifetime is the criminalization and prohibition of marijuana,” Erb told CTV British Columbia on Friday.

    Erb told the station he is pledging up to $500,000 to match donations made to Sensible B.C. over the coming months.

    On its site, Sensible BC says it is working “to decriminalize the simple possession of cannabis in British Columbia through the Sensible Policing Act.

    “The Sensible Policing Act would amend the Police Act, to redirect all police in the province from taking any action, including searches, seizures, citations or arrests, in cases of simple cannabis possession by adults.”

  29. claygooding says:

    Paul Chabot, Former White House Drug Czar Advisor: ‘Trickery’ Led To Colorado Legalizing Marijuana

    “”During a recent HuffPost Live segment debating whether or not Colorado is ready for Amendment 64 — which legalized marijuana for recreational use in the state — to become law, Paul Chabot, former White House drug czar advisor under Presidents Bush and Clinton, said “trickery” was the reason the measure passed in the Centennial State and that initiatives like A64 need to be repealed to “save Colorado and their youth.””

    “The problem is we’re being out-funded and out-gunned by wealthy billionaires who are buying ad campaigns and using trickery in their words talking about all this nonsense,” Chabot continued. “I think local governments in Colorado — responsible local governments — are looking at this and saying this is not something we want in our communities and at the end of the day we’ve got to repeal these kind of drug legalization efforts to really save Colorado and their youth.”

    “Look, what we have to come back to is one solid point,” Chabot concluded: “What kind of community, what kind of state, what kind of nation do we want to raise our kids in today?” “snipped”

    “Billionaires” financed the Yes to A-64 and the federal government funded the “No”,,,and the kind of country I would want to raise my children in is one where the government doesn’t have to pay people like Paul Chabot to lie to the American people.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      I guess when you’re a moron like Mr. Chabot is it can be very confusing when the majority of voters disagree with you. I’m still not convinced that calling people idiots is any way to change people’s minds.

      (No Mr. C, I’m not trying to convince you of anything or to change your mind. You don’t have the native intelligence required to understand that you’re utterly clueless. But keep up the good work. You’re actually one of the biggest assets for our side of the table and it doesn’t matter to me that your help is unintentional. —Toodles!)

    • War Vet says:

      Personally I’d like to raise my kids in a world that doesn’t proclaim “Your child will have a worse future than you, just so we can make sure youth and adults don’t do legal drugs” or one that doesn’t proclaims “9/11 was a justifiable consequence to keeping drugs illegal.” That’s the same thing as telling a parent, “Your son will die, so mine can go to college.” Chabot has been long telling the American parent, “Your children will have to work in the fast food/retail industry a few years longer than you did, just so we can prosecute someone for crack or pot in a nation $5-8 trillion of dollars more into debt just because of the war on drugs.”

      I hate knowing this Paul Chabot guy is a Veteran. You’d think the first duty of all veterans would be to help other veterans out, such as calling the end of the drug war to stop wars in Iraq and Afghanistan from happening or continuing . . . but his ‘War on Drugs’ encourages Vet marijuana and drug use, while it encourages military funerals as well. Just reading his stats on the ‘Team Veteran’ website is enough to get one legally qualified for medical marijuana because of the nausea associated with reading him and his life work. Even reading his philosophy on ‘evil’ is nauseating because it takes away personal responsibly of a society harboring the building blocks of evil in the first place. The CSA and U.N. drug laws are morally wrong because it gives weapons and money to people who have demonstrated their willingness and desire to kill and corrupt . . . The CSA is a legal loophole in giving aid and money to murderers and terrorists, which makes one question the morality of people who enforce and encourage drug prohibition. Since such people like Paul, Kevin, Gil, Michele, Obama and Officer O’Hare know drug money is created out of the prohibition law and they know drug money makes evil intent, action and desire into something much more wickedly possible; I would say this shows intent based on the knowledge of the consequences and the willingness to allow the consequences to happen over and over again. So, in all reality, your average American cop who has a few brains up in his head will also arrest you for pot or meth so another 9/11 will happen (philosophically and subconsciously speaking). Of course I cannot speak for the cops who don’t understand the link between drug prohibition and organized crime. Out of all the reasons cops will arrest you for drugs, one of them is so more will die in Mexico and more non-drug using American youth and adults will have less satisfying and less paying jobs and so more American troops will die and be sent to Africa alongside their French counterparts. Drug prohibition is the only reason why the Pentagon is deploying 4,000 U.S. troops to Africa before the end of 2013. At least the CIA agents briefing me and my squad were honest: “Organized crime is the only reason any of you are in Iraq” (Actual Quote).

  30. darkcycle says:

    Well, not Sabet Free for long. Kevie Sabet to debate Arron Huston of the SSDP at Tampa:

    • Deep Dish says:

      That’s only a 2 hour drive from me. But nah, it ain’t worth the $10 in gas money to sit with popcorn and watch the sophistic ignoramus cretin get creamed.

      • kaptinemo says:

        And, notice who’s sponsoring it:

        “The debate is sponsored by Live Well UT, a student organization whose mission is to provide a forum for wellness initiatives to increase healthy behaviors for the UT community, and CEDARS, the Coalition for Enhanced Drug and Alcohol Resources and Study. CEDARS focuses on community outreach, prevention and advocacy, as well as, science-based research and knowledge development.

        A little research finds: Live Well UT which has a section called DisJointed (my, how cute) that states: “This student-driven initiative educates UT on the legal and health effects of marijuana use.” Doesn’t sound too open minded to me…

        And, even worse: Center for Effective Drug Abuse Research & Statistics, “Bringing facts to bear on drug problems.”

        A little about its’ founder: William R. (Bill) Walluks worked at the Wisconsin Department of Justice for thirty three years researching drugs, crime, law enforcement, and the criminal justice system. His last thirteen years were spent analyzing and reporting on drug problems and developing prevention materials as Chief of Strategic Intelligence in the Division of Narcotics Enforcement. He is retired and now operates the Center for Effective Drug Abuse Research & Statistics (C.E.D.A.R.S.) as a volunteer to provide assistance to drug preventionists and law enforcement.” (emphasis mine – k.)

        Preventionists. Huh. Yeah, right. That’s so last decade. This guy hasn’t even gotten the memo yet about how lame that was and how quickly it got shot down when the prohibs started squealing that line years ago.

        I hope Aaron comes ‘loaded for bear’. Because he’s going into one of their dens.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      How old are Mr. Frum’s children? I’m looking forward to the day when one or even all of them do the rebellion thing. It wouldn’t shock me at all if at least one comes over to our side of the table.
      Oh for crying out loud, did you know that Mr. Frum isn’t even a native born American? We really do need to tighten up our immigration standards.

      • primus says:

        Unfortunately, we canucks must take the blame for him. His mother was a very respected Canadian tv personality/reporter/journalist who is no doubt spinning in her grave like a top because her progeny turned out so opposite her. He couldn’t get any traction here so her moved to the excited states where the intersection of rabid fundamental religious nutcases and a totally ineffective form of government gives him lots of room to cause damage. Our gain, your loss.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        Some folks might enjoy Mr. Frum being interviewed by Stephen Colbert. It’s not recent and presented for amusement only.

        Gosh this guy’s biography is amusing. He was fired forced to resign by George W. Bush.

        Isn’t Ringling Brothers hiring clowns nowadays?

  31. claygooding says:

    If we ain’t supposed to have midnite snacks then why a light in the refrigertor?

  32. allan says:

    From the it’s-only-a-war-if-you-call-it-one category:

    The Drug Trade and the Increasing Militarization of the Caribbean

    Given the current controversy surrounding the extent of the U.S. drone program and targeted killings, it is important to revisit that in the summer of 2012, the U.S. Customs and Border Protection Agency announced that unmanned drones would begin patrolling Caribbean airspace as an expansion of the Caribbean Basin Security Initiative (CBSI). This is only one aspect of how the War on Drugs in the Caribbean is increasingly looking like the War on Terror.

    • War Vet says:

      Since the only reason why drones are used in the Middle East is to go after drug money financed fighters, there is no separation between the war on terror from the War on Drugs, which means every drone flown in Iraq or Yemen or Mali or Afghanistan or Somalia flew for counter-narcotic operations. A woman who gives birth to a baby doesn’t give birth to a horse or a rock, but a human, thus meaning both woman and baby are the same thing: human species . . . which is why we can say the war on terror doesn’t technically exist and has never existed (legally speaking). If drugs were never outlawed, would American soldiers be in the Middle East fighting so called terrorists? If the terrorists didn’t utilize drug money because drugs were not illegal, would they be as powerful and effective . . . would their fight last as long? We don’t know, thus we don’t know if the war on terror exists at all. What the writer meant to say was that the ‘War on Drugs in the Caribbean is beginning to look like the War on Drugs’ . . . or ‘look like a war in general’. If One calls it a ‘war on terror’, without first acknowledging it as being technically and legally called the war on drugs as well, then one is allowing the politician and Federal Government to get away with creating laws that fund our enemies. Because of the 93’ WTC bombing and because of who his uncle was and because of the warnings from our ally, Massoud, I believe 9/11 came from illegal drugs (unless we are assuming illegal drugs aren’t sold illegally, but legally only) . . . if 9/11 was an inside job, I believe the CIA demonstrated the ability to utilize drug money to finances black ops and non-Congressionally funded or authorized agendas etc, thus meaning drug money did do 9/11 regardless of who it was, which is why we can prove it was the DOJ who at the very least helped create 9/11. This is why we have no proof that the CSA law exists today because Congress never authorized American cops to fund Al Qaeda via the law, which means the CSA is a treasonous law . . . but that won’t stop a cop from lying to you and saying you can go to jail for drugs. Does Federal Law Trump Federal Law? No drones have ever been used in the war on terror, only the War on Drugs. When was the last time you heard of the blood shed in Mexico or cops battling gang turf war in Chicago or Watts or Compton being referred to as the War on Terror? But most gangs operate with drug money or operate better and more violently because of drug money.

      On this site, I’ll refer to Iraq as the war on terror because not enough people will understand ‘I saw bombs explode in the War on Drugs in Iraq.’ . . . but that’s why I always mention the war in Middle East and 9/11 because it’s the exact same thing as busting a MMJ operation in California: War on Drugs.

  33. QuaxMercy says:

    And just pile on this notion, Clay, of Kerlikowske’s that, essentially, “teaching kids the science [of MMJ] sends ’em the wrong message.” I can never support the national aspirations of a country that could espouse such an abomination.

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