Election Day Discussion

This is an open thread to discuss anything you wish as you wait for the Prop 19 results (although waiting is not all you can do — Get out the vote campaigns continue today).

OAKLAND, CA – The campaign working to pass Proposition 19, the California initiative to control and tax marijuana, will host a Get Out The Vote rally on Election Day, this Tuesday, in front of Oakland City Hall.

WHO: Oakland City Attorney John Russo; Prop. 19 proponent and Oaksterdam University founder Richard Lee; former Wheatland police officer Nate Bradley; United Food and Commercial Workers union organizer Dan Rush; lawyer and mom Hanna Dershowitz and others
WHAT: Election Day Get Out The Vote rally
WHEN: Tuesday, November 2; 10:00 AM – 12:00 PM
WHERE: Frank Ogawa Plaza, Oakland City Hall

While the rally itself lasts from 10:00 AM until noon, the first hour is targeted to press, and will feature short speeches by all the spokespersons.

I’ve also gathered a fair amount of interesting reading for you.

bullet image Comment: The war on drugs is already lost by Ian Dunt

What is losing? No-one really knows. In football there’s a final whistle. In politics, there are elections. But policies have no timer, only consequences. How bad must those consequences be for us to call it quits over the war on drugs? […]

Intellectually, pro-prohibitionists are a dwindling and pitiful breed. Alone and without allies they make their case to an empty room. Behind them, almost every government in the world supports their barbaric and simple-minded agenda. It is baffling. […]

Drug prohibition is philosophically wrong. It denies us the freedom to decide what we put in our own bodies. It is medically wrong. The black market allows drug peddlers to corrupt the substances in a bid to boost quantities, something which would be impossible if the product were regulated. It is socially wrong. It funds the black market and allows drug use to take place in a social netherworld, where addiction and crime are more likely to follow. It is logically wrong, in that decriminalisation tends to see usage and potency drop. When Jacqui Smith obediently followed Gordon Brown’s orders and re-classified marijuana, for instance, its usage was actually falling.

But a mugging here or a burglary there hardly compares to what this insane policy does to us strategically. […]

How much blood does it take before the prohibitionists admit defeat? At what point does their continued failure become a personal moral culpability? They are promoting a policy which kills our children, endangers our troops, counteracts our foreign policy and reduces much of the developing world to anarchy.

bullet image The Russians are Coming! The Russians are Coming!

Comes now Russian drug czar Viktor Ivanov, who flew in and injected a bit of old-fashioned reefer madness into the debate. As only someone from the land of double-speak can put it, Ivanov warned of “psychiatric deviations” should California pass Proposition 19. Foreign Policy reports:

Viktor Ivanov, a former KGB officer and prominent member of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin’s inner circle, even took the unusual step of going to Los Angeles earlier this week to “conduct a campaign against legalizing marijuana in California,” as he said in the interview. He also came to Washington this week to meet with U.S. drug czar Gil Kerlikowske and U.S. Afghan envoy Richard Holbrooke to discuss anti-poppy measures in Afghanistan and call for an intensified program of aerial eradication.

He warns California, sternly:

“I’m afraid that the consequences of [legalization] will be catastrophic. Even the Netherlands, where they sell marijuana legally in coffee shops, they are now reversing on this. Because there, and everywhere, drug addiction is becoming stronger and the people who are addicted develop psychiatric deviations. They say, ‘What does God do when he wants to punish a person? He deprives him of his mind.’ “

The aptly titled Russian czar does speak with some authority, as his country does have a drug problem of its own. But I’m not sure that support from Ivanov — whose own government has an elastic definition of personal freedom — is an endorsement the anti-19 forces will embrace.

bullet image Mary Ann Sieghart: Restore sanity in the debate on drugs

America declared war on drugs 40 years ago. You’d think that by now, it might have won. Instead, any US teenager can buy cannabis, at higher strength and at a lower price. Meanwhile, severed heads are rolled across floors in Mexican discos and innocent people are scared to leave their homes in cities such as Ciudad Juarez, where the war on drugs has taken its highest toll.

bullet image Nora Volkow says something true:

One of the issues is that people believe how marijuana affects them is how it affects everyone, said Dr. Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

“They base it on their own experiences, and it is possible you can smoke and have no ill effects. It’s also possible you can smoke until age 100 and have no ill effects.

bullet image 5 Expert Takes on How U.S. Marijuana Legalization Would Affect Mexico

“Experts” are clueless and/or unwilling to actually consider real solutions, as evidenced by this extraordinary confession by “expert” Peter Rueter

Reuter: I am really struck by the lack of suggestions as to what the Mexican government should do other than just give up. I don’t have any good ideas, and nobody else does, either.

bullet image A Letter to the Undecided: Prop 19 by Jesse Levine

People sitting on the fence about proposition 19 remind me of people stuck in dysfunctional relationships. They know they should end the relationship but are plagued with anxiety about the future. I’ve tried to relieve some fear about legalization so that you might understand more clearly how futile and destructive marijuana prohibition is and why it should be ended. Prop 19 is down in the polls but the race is close. Please go end the states dysfunctional relationship with marijuana prohibition.

bullet image Author’s Novel Aims to Settle Debate Debate Over Marijuana Legalization

Of all the arguments that have been made over the past year in support of California’s initiative to legalize marijuana, perhaps the most convincing is the one found on page 237 of Katie Arnoldi’s novel “Point Dume.”

The drug cartels are growing marijuana on our public lands. Right this minute, there are millions of plants in grow-sites all around the country and especially in California. The chemicals they use are destroying wildlife, our national parks and designated wilderness. I’ve been into these grow-sites and have seen, first hand, the enormous environmental devastation. It is a problem that should not be ignored.

bullet image Marijuana legalization: why tea party might support Prop. 19 in… Christian Science Monitor?

Whether or not tea party conservatives and libertarians – the two main strands of the powerful political insurgency movement – will help put Prop. 19 over the top is an open question. But some commentators are seeing anecdotal support among many tea partyers for marijuana legalization in California. […]

Yet the poll numbers don’t necessarily indicate that things will turn out this way. Republicans oppose the measure by 65 percent to 25 percent, and those over age 60 are against it by 63 percent to 29 percent, according to the nonpartisan Field Poll.

bullet image California’s Slap At Our Drug-Fighting Allies — a particularly stupid editorial from Investor’s Business Daily, known for its stupid editorials.

Whatever the merits of legalizing marijuana in California, passage of Prop. 19 will create a legal mess at a time when Mexico’s war is becoming a higher foreign-policy priority for the U.S.

Although the measure’s prospects seem to be fading, passage could discourage Latin American friends from working with us on the drug problem and inadvertently bring back the old days of ignoring the problem.

bullet image Marijuana as a Gateway Drug: The Myth That Will Not Die by Maia Szalavitz in Time.

The problem here is that correlation isn’t cause. Hell’s Angels motorcycle gang members are probably more 104 times more likely to have ridden a bicycle as a kid than those who don’t become Hell’s Angels, but that doesn’t mean that riding a two-wheeler is a “gateway” to joining a motorcycle gang. It simply means that most people ride bikes and the kind of people who don’t are highly unlikely to ever ride a motorcycle.

bullet image Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream by David Borden

bullet image Hollywood Stars for Prop 19 (video)

Don’t forget to vote.

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61 Responses to Election Day Discussion

  1. Just me. says:

    Who the hell would trust what Ivanov, A COMMUNIST, would say about legaization? Hell I dont trust my government ( its looking more communist by the day), why would I trust him and his? IDIOCY !

    The prohibs must be desperate to bring in the commies!

  2. Matthew Meyer says:

    Pete, thanks for your good work these months. I’m pretty sure that if everyone in California who consumes some cannabis today goes and votes for Prop 19 it’ll pass. But even if that doesn’t happen, I am convinced, partly from what I’ve learned on your blog, that the tide has turned on cannabis prohibition. So I’m going to vote, but whatever happens I won’t lose heart. Cheers!

  3. kaptinemo says:

    WRT the ‘experts’, I can only add;

    # of angels/surface area of pins = x?

    They are all about as relevant as that. Absolutely clueless, but what do you expect from the parapets of ivory towers? LEAP’s people were in the trenches, sent there by treacherous, two-faced pols and their enabling academicians (like the bunch consulted), and know the score. I’d sooner hear from them than those goofs.

  4. Supporter says:

    Good luck today! Remember, this will be the domino piece that must fall! If it dont fall today its not a huge loss for us, we got a good open discussion goin on country wide in all of europe thanks to your great work! Chin up and vote yes!

    Best regards from grateful citizen of Norway.

  5. darkcycle says:

    Thanks, Supporter, we’ll take the good wishes. Good Morning all, Wake and bake and get at it…it’s voting day! I could care less who you vote for, or if you vote at all, except for prop 19! Left, Right, Middle, everybody’s welcome, everybody’s needed. This is an issue that transcends normal politics and makes allies out of enemies. We Can Do This.
    Grab yer loved one, yer coat, and hit the polls.

  6. Sardonnas says:

    I’ll join in with Supporter 🙂 Best wishes from Estonia.
    Work day is ending and will go home, make some food and warm up the volcano 🙂

    And then probably will stay awake for the whole night 😀

    Thank god for internet, hopefully have contributed something from far away also, to give some humble reasoning in comment rooms.
    It doesn’t matter where common sense education comes from 🙂 Truth will still be truth.

    The whole world needs a new revolution in this social evolution!!

  7. Dano says:

    Well, I just voted YES at the polls. I hope the phone polls are off their mark, and that this passes. Looking forward to seeing the official score.

    No matter the outcome of this vote, it’s still started the debate for many other regions. That alone is cause for celebration, but wouldn’t it be nice to have a semi-private, legal, “light it up” celebration!!!

  8. Jake says:

    Good luck from the UK!! Anywhere we can follow results/exit polls online from?

  9. Maria says:

    I can’t vote in the US but everyone that can, go out and vote, not just Yes on Prop 19 but yes for all those who support civil rights, responsibility and humanism. they -are- out there. I do wish I could vote. One of my coworkers stepped into my office an hour ago and proudly declared, without a hint of irony, “I don’t care who they are, I just ticked off all the Republicans and was done. I’m sick of this shit.” I have nothing against specific republicans. It just pisses me off, this lazy and blind party adherence. Thoughtless and wasteful.

  10. Pete says:

    Greetings to our friendly visitors from the UK, Estonia, Norway and elsewhere.

    Some of you may not realize that this blog gets quite a lot of interest from other countries, with over 150 countries represented in visits this past month.

    Top countries this month (in order, including only those with over 100 visits each): United States, Canada, UK, Australia, Mexico, Trinidad and Tobago, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, India, Estonia, Norway, Philippines, Italy, Portugal, New Zealand, Vietnam, Ireland, Puerto Rico, South Africa, and Japan.

    Drug policy is extremely important everywhere, and what we do here in the United States has global ramifications. And what California is doing today will have significant impact on future U.S. policy.

  11. L. Gonzalez says:

    I’m writing this from Mexico. Just a few minutes ago, I was having breakfast with my mother, and she was talking how things are becoming increasingly difficult -and dangerous- for her sons and her grandsons. This conversation was prompted by the morning news reports: murders, violence, widespread corruption.

    If prohibition policies remain in place, I have no doubt my country will suffer, and that this suffering will last decades. Whether it is by widespread violence and war or by the cartels finally taking over the government (which has already happened in some areas), many lives will be destroyed.

    I’m still hoping Proposition 19 passes. But if it doesn’t, I still want to say that I’m immensely grateful to all peoplw who have worked to reform drug policies. Please don’t give up. It is a worthy goal.

  12. mikekinseattle says:

    I’m curious if any of you can get to the Yes on 19 website? I haven’t been able to get to it all morning.


    Also, from LA Weekly:


  13. claygooding says:

    Some more policy on the CA vote count:

    Because of the need to confirm each voter’s registration status, verify voter signatures, ensure people are not voting more than once, and more, not all ballots are counted on Election Day. County elections officials must report their final results to the Secretary of State 31 days after Election Day, which for this election is December 3. The Secretary of State then has seven additional days to certify the results of the election, which for this election is December 10.

    * Vote-by-mail ballots that are received by 8:00 p.m. on Election Day are opened and counted after voter signatures on the envelopes are verified against voter registration records.
    * Provisional ballots that are cast on Election Day are opened and counted after voter signatures on the envelopes are verified against voter registration records.
    * Other ballots that are damaged or cannot be machine-read are counted after being remade by county elections officials

  14. claygooding says:

    @Mike…..same here,either they are so busy that we can’t get in,,,I hope so,or it is being blocked,,,hope not.

  15. Maria says:

    @mike, same. Site’s down according to their twitter feed. http://twitter.com/taxcannabis

  16. ezrydn says:

    I’m just hoping the people of California understand that a NO vote is a vote FOR the Cartels. I can’t imagine anyone being that stupid but it wouldn’t be the first time. If California says NO, then we no longer have to worry about answering the “What About The Children” cantada. It will simply show that they don’t care about the children.

    Yet, I am, like others, expecting a surprise. it’s been a long hard fought battle but it’s only that: a battle. It’s not the WAR. We know now that the whole world is counting on us to overturn this stupidity and we accept the challenge willingly.

    No matter what the outcome, those of us in other countries see what we have to do in our own areas of operations and must get started setting up our plan of attack. As a recent veteran commercial recently said, “We Did It For YOU!” And we’ll keep doing it until we WIN! Join our world wide community of Reformers and let’s make this happen!!

    I thought that after 5 years of working at this, I’d get a day of rest today. Silly me. LOL

  17. darkcycle says:

    Their traffic must be incredible. Any word on exit polling? anybody know of any sites that are keeping a running tally? They test these elections all day long to get a sense of who’s voting and when. I’ve nothing to do for the rest of the day but watch the polls and my two-year-old.

  18. darkcycle says:

    Face it Ez, we ain’t gonna be able to rest ’till we hear the proverbial fat lady singing. Lets hope it’s Mama Cass with “California Dreamin'”, insted of Etta James singin’ the Blues.

  19. darkcycle says:

    Yes on 19’s site is back up.

  20. mikekinseattle says:

    I’ve not seen anything yet. This is the longest day of work I’ve had in a long time, although I guess I’m not working much. This is from the LA Times:


  21. Pete says:

    From a friend in the know…

    I’m told by organizers on the ground that youth turnout is so high that the polling location at San Diego State University has completely run out of provisional ballots. We’re hearing that it will take 3 or 4 more hours to re-stock the ballots there…

  22. darkcycle says:

    Yeah, good sign indeed, the pollisters are using their ‘likely voter’ math, and I don’t think that will be reflective of the turnout this time.

  23. Shap says:

    good to hear after all the negative poll number shit

  24. mikekinseattle says:

    I wonder what the protocol is if the ballots run out? I hope people don’t just walk away.

    I also hope that the scene is similar at other California colleges.

  25. Negation says:

    I can’t remember being this excited in a long time. I’m highly optimistic. California, make us proud!

  26. darkcycle says:

    Well, one thing is clear… the pols will have to come down on a side in this issue for 2012. And if the Democrats, (no friends of our movement in the past)want to motivate the younger voters for 2012, this would be the key. They can’t marginalize or discount us any longer, and they are going to have to treat this matter seriously.
    By any measure a victory.

  27. mikekinseattle says:

    Check out the live stream from Yes on 19 HQ. Go to norml.org. Links in lead article.

  28. ezrydn says:


    Post the link to the live stream. I just looked all over NORML’s site and saw nothing.

  29. malcolmkyle says:

    YesOn19 is accessible from The Hague, NL at the moment.


  30. ezrydn says:

    Thanks for the link, MK.

    Have you been watching Activist1 over at the Hive? She’s just posted that she’s “exorcising” her right to vote. I kid you not. LMAO Talk about a level of education! I camp over there now, just waiting for her to log on and post some more trash.

  31. claygooding says:

    thnx malcolm,posted it and listening to it,watching CNN,breathing fast and feel as if I am waiting on the x-rays of something bad.

  32. darkcycle says:

    The normal feed has a chat and Danny Danko’s on, he’s an old friend so I’ll be off there for awhile.

  33. ezrydn says:

    The last poll to close in California will be at 11pm Pacific Time. We’ve still got 5.5 hrs to wait. I think I’m gonna be up most of the night now. They won’t start telling anything until around 1am my time.

  34. eryjj-1q2j90N says:

    Here goes nothing…

  35. denmark says:

    Waiting is the hardest part.

  36. darkcycle says:

    Ezzy, go to the norml.org feed, it helps pass the time and they are live at prop 19 headquarters. Radical Russ is OK in my book.

  37. malcolmkyle says:

    Ezy, please keep excoriating that fucking witch Taylor for us ;>)

    The last time I felt like this, there was a real wall coming down.

    Just heard that Rand Paul has won in Kentucky.

    It’s nearly 01:30 here, so that’s me time-lined.

  38. Just me. says:


  39. claygooding says:

    rumors have yes at 34%,,,,,,unverified and supposedly in the first few hours of vote,lots to go

  40. hooray for our side says:

    If voting changed anything it would be illegal.

  41. mikekinseattle says:

    here’s the site from the state of California with ‘semi-official’ results, of which there are none yet:


  42. If I had a rocket launcher says:

    Is it legal yet? Are we there yet?

    The Iowa BoP moved cannabis to schedule 2 today. Holy Nellie, prohibition of cannabis is done

    hooray for our side I think you must have your hands covering your eyes if you can’t see what a huge difference voting makes in reality. So just answer one question for me? The question is “proposition 215?”

  43. darkcycle says:

    AAAGGGHHHH: I can’t hold my breath much longer!

  44. Dudeman says:

    The underreported story in cannabis politics in 2010 is the Colorado governor’s debate. An outright pro-legalization candidate, Tom Tancredo, is getting 37% of the vote. In other words, it’s not toxic.

    The South Dakota drubbing suggests backlash to the growth of MMJ in Colorado and Montana. I would guess they’re most worried about storefronts.

  45. mikekinseattle says:

    CNN also has results here:


    They also have exit polls, which, if representative, don’t look good.

  46. DdC says:

    Proposition 19. State of California
    (Initiative Statute – Majority Approval Required)
    534,357 / 44.8% Yes votes …… 657,551 / 55.2% No votes

    Results as of Nov 2 8:14pm, 7.3% of Precincts Reporting

  47. Dudeman says:

    No in Humboldt, Mendocino, and Trinity:


    The bootleggers appear as responsible for Prop 19’s defeat as the baptists.

  48. Paul says:

    No in the pot counties, eh? Now THAT’s voting your pocketbook, huh?

  49. chris says:

    Yeah the results are not looking good so far for prop 19.

Comments are closed.