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Andrea Barthwell claims that marijuana is ‘untested’

The American Society of Addiction Medicine has been on a PR campaign, peddling an old “white paper” of theirs, claiming that they know better than doctors regarding the treatment of patients for things like cancer and neuropathy. In actuality, they’re opposing medical marijuana because they see legalization as a threat to their profits. They’ve got another article at Opposing Views with this gem from our old friend and snake-oil salesman Andrea Barthwell:

“If physicians were treating patients with other untested substances, there would be a public outcry,” Dr. Barthwell said.

Marijuana untested? Wow. That’s certainly going to be a surprise to the 100 million Americans who have used marijuana. Gee, maybe they’re all like Bill Clinton and didn’t inhale.

What about the thousands of years of use? Just didn’t happen?

Or how about all the thousands of actual, you know, scientific tests that have been conducted on marijuana? How did they all manage to leave marijuana untested?

What about Sativex? You know, the liquid marijuana whole plant extract developed by GW Pharmaceuticals after years of testing for which you were a lobbyist.

Untested?

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82 comments to Andrea Barthwell claims that marijuana is ‘untested’

  • Jillian Galloway

    Marijuana has repeatedly been proven to NOT cause cancer, heart disease, brain damage, liver disease, emphysema, or any other significant health issue, and its addiction potential is about on par with coffee. In all respects, marijuana is far safer than beer and wine and should, at the very least, be controlled by exactly the same laws that we use for alcohol.

    Our current marijuana prohibition empowers drug dealers and the Mexican drug cartels by preventing any form of legal competition to their activities. Instead of protecting children from marijuana, these laws create an environment of zero legal supply amidst massive and unrelenting demand and effectively serve to make our children LESS safe. It is *because* of the failings of the prohibition that our children now have easier access to marijuana than to alcohol! Our communities need legal adult marijuana sales for exactly the same reason that they need legal alcohol and tobacco sales – to keep unscrupulous black-market criminals away from our neighborhoods and our children.

    Parents work hard to keep drugs away from their children and they need effective, logic-based laws to help them with this. In order to greatly improve the safety of our children we need legal adult marijuana sales in gas stations and supermarkets at prices too low for drug dealers to match – just as beer and wine are sold today. We need laws based on logic, fact and reason, and NOT on ideological positions and unprovable assumptions!

    • Duncan20903

      Hey Jillian, notice your work on all sorts of MSM comments. I think that you might want to consider adding a couple of links to support the assertions in your first paragraph. It’s hard enough to get the Know Nothing prohibitionists to believe a positive fact about cannabis with rock solid proof.

  • warren

    These bozos can be so absurd because they have the absurd federal govt on there side. [With our money backing up the lies and distortion.]

  • […] Andrea Barthwell claims that marijuana is 'untested'Drug WarRantThe American Society of Addiction Medicine has been on a PR campaign, peddling an old “white paper” of theirs, claiming that they know better than doctors regarding the treatment of patients for things like cancer and neuropathy. …and more » […]

  • it’s all part of their plan to reverse state-level “medical” marijuana laws. it’s been obvious for at least the past 5 years

  • denmark

    Medical marijuana saved my life. That is the honest to gawd truth.
    Medical marijuana has given me back a quality of life that I’ve not known for many decades. (yes, decades).

    I hate prohibitionists.

  • malcolm kyle

    We interrupt this thread for a ‘newsflash’

    The vote came after a finding by a parliamentary committee led by the opposition parties that Mr Harper’s government had acted in contempt by failing to disclose the full costs of spending on anti-crime programmes, corporate tax cuts and plans to purchase stealth fighter jets.

    Canadian government falls after no-confidence vote

    • darkcycle

      Harper had pushed farther than any marginal mandate he had ever had. My surprise registers only the fact that it took so damn long. However, I wouldn’t look for those neo-cans (clever?) to change their approach.

    • Duncan20903

      Oh yeah, the Canuckistanies toss mandatory sentencing and the hysterical rhetoric of the prohibitionists out the window.

  • denbee

    I just tested some and it worked. What else do I need?

    • malcolm kyle

      I’m about to check out your findings ;>)

    • hmmm… I’ll volunteer as well. ffffffffp! ‘works ‘ere too… fffffffff…

      See, research isn’t that hard.

      For me not working a job w/o pee testing has been a challenge. I worked a long time in lumber, lots of equipment, driving forklifts and trucks… and was never drug tested (Conde’s Redwood had a drug test but it was truly not a standardized test by any means). But when I left the lumber biz… sheeeit… that’s why I’m struggling to get my writing and photography going (I have another piece in the upcoming issue of CannabisNow mag – on Mexico, plus I have one of my photos as the magazine’s cover shot. It’s available in the Pacific NW). I’ll argue aginst drug testing until the cows come home.

      People call me stubborn and hard headed. Heck, I’m Scandihoovian and you know dem svedes… ve gave da vorld da vord “Berserk.”

  • darkcycle

    Let’s get a true cross sample….bubble-bubble-bubble, snork! cough-cough. Wow. How completely medicinal. Yep. I tested it. It works.

  • ezrydn

    I can vouch that it handles PTSD wonderfully!!! Much better than any of that mess the VA gives out. At least, I don’t slobber. LOL Plus, I get a hellova lot more work done, even being retired.

  • ezrydn

    “Only 36 days of campaigning.”

    I could only hope for such a thing off their Southern border.

  • vicky vampire

    Yeah Marijuana given me a better quality of life too ,so PISS on them.

  • strayan

    You know what? I’m not even going to debate whether cannabis remains untested

    Anyone with access to the internet can visit http://scholar.google.com and search every single medical and pharmacological journal and see for themselves.

  • cyril

    Unfortunately, some people may find this evidence “convincing” and self-medicate a serious disease with marijuana while forgoing a medicine that IS FDA approved. For example, all the hype about marijuana curing cancer. If you get cancer, just use marijuana and you will be cured. No need for doctors. Marijuana is not FDA approved like other medicines because it hasn’t been tested for all these applications it supposedly has. As the article says, smoking is bad for your health. Ask a marijuana user about that and the answer is, you can use edibles. But then you ask, why don’t YOU use edibles and the response is–it isn’t convenient. Yeah, right. Put your money where your mouth is. If you are concerned about health, don’t smoke, don’t give me bs about marijuana is medicine–smoking is not medicine. Using marijuana 24/7 is dependence, just like nicotine dependence. If you are turned into a zombie, of course you don’t feel pain and you think everything is okay. But run out of marijuana–and wow, just see how irritable you get. Just go back into your stupor and stay there. But don’t tell me you can think scientifically about what is and is not medicine. And the profits of the ASAM are NOT threatened by legalization. Legalization would create many more addicts and more customers for the addiction specialists!

    • Thanks for stopping by, cyril.

      First of all, nobody on the drug policy reform side is saying if you have cancer, don’t see a doctor, and you’ll be cured from marijuana. That’s one of the most ridiculous things I’ve heard. Yes, in fact, marijuana has great potential in cancer cures, but we have a lot to learn before people will even consider doing that without seeing a doctor. If you want to see some scientific information about medical marijuana and cancer, turn to the federal government’s cancer site.

      The fact is, that in every state that has medical marijuana, a doctor must be involved. The only ones who don’t want patients to listen to a doctor are you and the ASAM, by attempting to make it illegal for a doctor to prescribe the best medicine for the patient.

      As far as the FDA? What a joke. They approve drugs every day that’ll kill you, and they won’t look at medical marijuana for political and profit reasons. There’s no science there at all. Their pathetic announcement against medical marijuana was universally ridiculed at in the medical and scientific community.

      The idea that there will be more people needing treatment with ASAM also doesn’t pass the smell test (or the scientific test). It’s proven that in places with decriminalization of marijuana, use had not gone up dramatically, and abuse has not gone up at all. No, the fact is that while marijuana can result in some dependence, it’s generally mild and doesn’t usually need treatment. The demand for treatment comes from the criminal justice system, creating a steady profit stream for the drug treatment and drug testing industries, and it is these people, led by despicably immoral people like Andrea Barthwell and Robert DuPont, who are willing to lie to keep their industry profits, despite the harm caused to millions of people who could benefit from medical marijuana.

      The science is there to support medical marijuana. By coming out in opposition to medical marijuana with obvious lies, it is clear that the treatment industry (at least that portion of it represented by the ASAM) is not interest in science or the well being of people.

      And that is a serious sickness.

      • Julian

        I work in drug treatment and nearly 90% of my co-workers support full regulation and legalization, the other 10% are split between decriminalization and prohibiting everything including alcohol and tobacco. The truth is those of us who are on the front lines of drug and alcohol addiction treatment are confronted everyday with the destructiveness of prohibition policies when it is obvious that the primary cause of addiction is internal and not external. Almost all of us wish for a system of harm reduction that would allow us to truly help those who need it and not have to deal with those who don’t need it and don’t want it but are doing it because, and I quote almost every single one of them, “It is damn sure better then jail!” No one in the addiction treatment field who is educated about the science behind addiction and the socio-political effects of drug prohibition would ever claim a lack of regulation combined with military tactic criminalization policies are good at helping communities or individuals recover from the destructive side effects of drug addiction and dependence. They would do no such thing because they are aware that the greatest hindrance to helping individuals truly recover from addiction is drug prohibition.

        Don’t even get me started on the FDA, I could not agree more fully. Again, anyone who things addiction would increase without punitive policies regarding use is simply uneducated on countries like Portugal, The Netherlands, and Switzerland. Every country, and every state, that has reduced punishments for drug use has seen an initial minor increase followed by a large decrease in use, particularly in minors. They have also seen a decrease in prisons while an increase in treatment and a decrease in repeat treatment attendance. Two fold reasoning. One, easier access for treatment. There is no denying that if someone is afraid of going to jail for an action, they are less likely to seek help from those you would traditionally seek help from. Two, easier to control. Recent studies have shown that underage illegal drug use has surpassed underage illegal use of legal drugs in the U.S.. (alcohol, tobacco, et cetera) The reason is not that police have become more laxed about illegal drug sales, it is because they have become less laxed about legal drug sales to minors. Why go through the effort of a fake ID or convincing someone to buy you liquor when you could save the money you spend on the ID or the purchaser and just buy illegal drugs without the hassle of ID age requirements.

        Also, I think it is just silly to refer to recreational users comments about how they use cannabis while talking about medical use. Let me put it in context.

        Dimorphine is good medicine? Well ask a junkie about it hell say “you don’t need to inject it. you can get it from the hospital as a pill. But that is not what I do.” Ask him why he doesn’t and he’ll say “because it is cheaper and easier to share needles with strangers, gets me so messed up I’m nodding out and then I drive home!” I DON’T THINK THAT SOUNDS LIKE MEDICINE!

        Metta
        Jules

    • Chris

      Ask someone seeking pain relief who is an opiate user and another who is a marijuana user who feels better (e.g. not like an addicted useless zombie) and I think you’ll find a clear consensus.

    • oh my… I certainly hope cyril comes back. Such derangement needs rearrangement… cyril, you’re certainly mis-educated and ill-informed.

    • Servetus

      In situations where marijuana treats a medical symptom, the symptom is evidence of a malady needing treatment. Any particular malady probably has other medications to treat the symptoms besides marijuana, but that doesn’t mean marijuana is useless. In this case, marijuana can be used to identify a malady. It can also be a medical adjunct to a conventional treatment.

      One should seek out all remedies for their illness or medical condition. A combination of ingredients is often better than just one in combating complex illnesses—AIDS cocktails, for example, or drugs for the common cold. Or depression. Many medical marijuana patients use marijuana along with SSRIs to give better relief from depression, since cannabis eliminates anxiety, and anxiety is a strong environmental trigger for depression.

      As for smoking pot, any species whose ancestors can survive volcanoes and multiple comet blasts to this fried little planet while plodding through modernity inhaling smoke from campfires has probably evolved lungs capable of handling toxic-free marijuana. Anybody who survived Los Angeles smog in the 70s must necessarily appreciate the resiliency of lung tissue. Far from rejecting smoking as a means of drug delivery, research is needed to determine if smoking a particular drug can become an improved delivery method over those currently being used.

      It should also be noted that tobacco is a different drug from marijuana. Tobacco is harmful because of its ingredients, not its smoke. Chewing tobacco is also harmful. Eating tobacco can kill you.

      Finally, cyril, if you’re going to pretend to be a scientist, you really need to improve your epistemology, because yours sucks. But thank you anyway for this opportunity to vent.

    • This is not my America

      Its called moderation, just like alcohol, if you use it too much ya…never mind

      • This is not my America

        Also cyril, your so called addicts wont exist because they will no longer be court ordered to treatment for a non existant pyhsical addiction just to avoid jail time for something that shouldnt be a crime.

        [Edit: I’ve made some small cuts to your posts, This is not my America. We don’t tell people with different views to go away, or call them names, once they’ve posted in comments. We like having them here – so few are willing to engage us. In fact, I may have even been a bit too harsh in my first response. – Pete]

      • This is not my America

        Ya your right pete. Point take. My frustration level gets the best of me at times.

      • This is not my America

        Ya your right pete. Point taken. My frustration level gets the best of me at times.

    • malcolm kyle

      Thanks Cyril for giving me the opportunity to post the following text which is taken directly from the US government’s National Cancer Institute website: http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4

      * ANTI-TUMOR EFFECTS

      One study in mice and rats suggested that cannabinoids may have a protective effect against the development of certain types of tumors. During this 2-year study, groups of mice and rats were given various doses of THC by gavage. A dose-related decrease in the incidence of hepatic adenoma tumors and hepatocellular carcinoma was observed in the mice. Decreased incidences of benign tumors (polyps and adenomas) in other organs (mammary gland, uterus, pituitary, testis, and pancreas) were also noted in the rats. In another study, delta-9-THC, delta-8-THC, and cannabinol were found to inhibit the growth of Lewis lung adenocarcinoma cells in vitro and in vivo. In addition, other tumors have been shown to be sensitive to cannabinoid-induced growth inhibition.

      Cannabinoids may cause antitumor effects by various mechanisms, including induction of cell death, inhibition of cell growth, and inhibition of tumor angiogenesis and metastasis. Cannabinoids appear to kill tumor cells but do not affect their nontransformed counterparts and may even protect them from cell death. These compounds have been shown to induce apoptosis in glioma cells in culture and induce regression of glioma tumors in mice and rats. Cannabinoids protect normal glial cells of astroglial and oligodendroglial lineages from apoptosis mediated by the CB1 receptor.

      In an in vivo model using severe combined immunodeficient mice, subcutaneous tumors were generated by inoculating the animals with cells from human non-small cell lung carcinoma cell lines. Tumor growth was inhibited by 60% in THC-treated mice compared with vehicle-treated control mice. Tumor specimens revealed that THC had antiangiogenic and antiproliferative effects.

      * ANTI-INFLAMMATORY EFFECTS

      In addition, both plant-derived and endogenous cannabinoids have been studied for anti- inflammatory effects. A mouse study demonstrated that endogenous cannabinoid system signaling is likely to provide intrinsic protection against colonic inflammation. As a result, a hypothesis that phytocannabinoids and endocannabinoids may be useful in the prevention and treatment of colorectal cancer has been developed.

      * ANTIVIRAL PROPERTIES

      Another study has shown delta-9-THC is a potent and selective antiviral agent against Kaposi sarcoma-associated herpesvirus (KSHV), also known as human herpesvirus 8. The researchers concluded that additional studies on cannabinoids and herpesviruses are warranted, as they may lead to the development of drugs that inhibit the reactivation of these oncogenic viruses. Subsequently, another group of investigators reported increased efficiency of KSHV infection of human dermal microvascular epithelial cells in the presence of low doses of delta-9-THC.
      Appetite Stimulation

      * APPETITE STIMULATOR

      Many animal studies have previously demonstrated that delta-9-THC and other cannabinoids have a stimulatory effect on appetite and increase food intake. It is believed that the endogenous cannabinoid system may serve as a regulator of feeding behavior. The endogenous cannabinoid anandamide potently enhances appetite in mice. Moreover, CB1 receptors in the hypothalamus may be involved in the motivational or reward aspects of eating.
      Analgesia

      * AS A PAIN KILLER

      Understanding the mechanism of cannabinoid-induced analgesia has been increased through the study of cannabinoid receptors, endocannabinoids, and synthetic agonists and antagonists. The CB1 receptor is found in both the central nervous system (CNS) and in peripheral nerve terminals. Similar to opioid receptors, increased levels of the CB1 receptor are found in sections of the brain that regulate nociceptive processing. CB2 receptors, located predominantly in peripheral tissue, exist at very low levels in the CNS. With the development of receptor-specific antagonists, additional information about the roles of the receptors and endogenous cannabinoids in the modulation of pain has been obtained.

      Cannabinoids may also contribute to pain modulation through an anti-inflammatory mechanism; a CB2 effect with cannabinoids acting on mast cell receptors to attenuate the release of inflammatory agents, such as histamine and serotonin, and on keratinocytes to enhance the release of analgesic opioids has been described.

      The American Public Health Association, American Nurses Association, Leukemia and Lymphoma Society, National Academy of HIV Medicine, two former U.S. surgeon generals, and hundreds of other medical professional groups all say that marijuana should be available to patients whose doctors recommend it.

  • WatchinItCrumble

    Cyril,
    Please, oh pretty please come back. I don’t have cable.

  • Ed Dunkle

    How do I book a visit to cyril’s planet?

    • Duncan20903

      You would likely find North Korea to be a more tourist friendly venue. Iran? 6 of 1 a half dozen of the other.

  • David Marsh

    Cyril, Thanks for stopping by Pete’s couch. The bunch here may bark, but they don’t bite…..mostly…. Cyril the evidence is convincing and many people self medicate even without the approval of the FDA and against federal and many states law. The law says “no accepted medical use in the United States” the problem here is accepted by whom? The evidence is so convincing that the Iowa Board of Pharmacy determined that there is “accepted medical use in Iowa” and referred the matter to the legislature for re-scheduling.

    The problem is, there are many people like you that are afraid of zombies. Cyril, there are no such things as zombies. The evidence is convincing. Cannabis has been an effective medicinal adjunct for thousands of years. When used in moderation it can help people live happy healthy lives. When used in excess it helps people live happy less healthy lives. Unlike most medicinal substances cannabis is a non toxic, non-physically addictive, self titrating, natural whole plant substance.

    Cyril, there are no monsters under the bed and there are no such things as zombies. There are millions of Americans that consume cannabis for all kinds of reasons. It is time for you, and all the others that think like you, to grow up and respect the rights of others.

    • well said David Marsh!

      there are no monsters under the bed and there are no such things as zombies. There are millions of Americans that consume cannabis for all kinds of reasons. It is time for you, and all the others that think like you, to grow up and respect the rights of others.

  • sarc em all

    Damn it sucks when big pharma and fascist corporations hijack your republic. Oh well the big game is on and some ratpiss beer is chillin, and here comes the buffalo wings. All is well.

  • the pertinent piece that so many people fail to grasp is that the government is talking about “cannabinoids” having medical efficacy. they have gone to great lengths to convince the public that “smoked marijuana” is not medicine — and they are correct. raw marijuana is no more “medicine” than is cinchona bark. if you extract the principle ingredients of either, you can create pure product of known dosage — that makes it “medicine.”

    the achille’s heel in the entire med-pot battle is that there is no way to measure a dose from a bong hit.

    we can piss and moan all we want about whether or not it works — but that isn’t the issue. the issue is that you can’t *measure* the dose. no measure, no science. no science, no medicine.

    once sativex is approved for the US market, the feds will wipe out all of the state laws allowing sales of raw product of unknown dosage.

    the writing has been on the wall for a very long time, and we would do well to recognize that we are devoting far too many resources moving the boat in the wrong direction.

    in the public eye (and that’s what matters more than anything else), a guy in a wheel chair clinging to a bong while purchasing his matanuska thunderfuck “medicine” is not very convincing.

    trying to get to legalized recreational use via the medical route has always been a retarded idea.

    the faster we learn that lesson, the more efficiently we can pull our resources together in the name of the greater common goal: ending the drug war.

    the hemp fans pull in one direction, the med-pot people pull in another and the recreational users sit around in the shadows hoping that “one small step” for someone else will some day allow them to walk into the light of day too. you can’t expect to win a war that way.

    • Leonard Junior

      So we should call it an herbal supplement. The fact that it’s non-toxic in the fatalistic sense is enough that such should be the case.

      At any rate, how do you move legislative opinion when politicians seem dead set on maintaining the status quo? For the most part, I’ve noticed the general-pot-smoking public to be so afraid of Johnny Law, and so pragmatic with what they need to do in their lives, that they have no time or inclination to increase the stresses by uniting. But the youth don’t vote. What’s up with that?

    • That’s an extremely limited and limiting view of science.

      Maybe you think we should give up on medical marijuana. That’s your right. But I know for a fact that medical marijuana helps people, and it would be immoral for me to stop pushing for medical marijuana because I wanted to take a different route to full legalization. So I’m going to work for both at the same time. If it turns out that medical marijuana is harming the full legalization movement, that’s too bad — I’ll just have to work harder for legalization. I’m not going to be the one to say “Fuck you, cancer sufferer. I want legal drugs for recreational purposes, so I’m going to let them stomp on you.” Then, I’m no better than the prohibitionists who interfere with sick people for the purposes of protecting prohibition.

      And I firmly believe that, while there are differences between camps, and that there are those within the medical marijuana community hostile to full legalization (and yes, some who tarnish the image through their look and/or behavior), the medical marijuana issue has been valuable to changing public opinion about the dangers of marijuana. I also believe that we have to focus our efforts on full education of legalization (like LEAP is doing). But even LEAP members recognize the value (morally, humanely, and strategically) of medical marijuana.

      When the silver bullet comes along that will destroy prohibition fully, you know I’ll be on board. And I’m always going to push for the greater common goal: ending the drug war.

      The hemp fans are doing their thing, the med-pot people are doing their thing, but that doesn’t mean that recreational users have to sit in the shadows just because they’re pissed off about the attention that the med-pot and hemp people are getting. Sure, they could wish that the med-pot and hemp people would take all their money and resources and put it into full legalization. They could also try to win the lottery.

      Putting faith in the resources of organizations to do the job is like putting faith in politicians. It’s nice to dream that a President could come in and fix all the laws for us with the stroke of a pen, or that one drug legalization organization could put enough resources into an advertising and lobbying campaign to change public opinion in a flash.

      From what I can see, the work is a lot harder than that. We have to change minds one at a time. Some will be convinced by arguments of human rights. Some will be convinced because they knew someone with MS who was helped by cannabis. Some will be convinced because they care about the environment. Some will be convinced because they want smaller government. Some will be convinced because they want to smoke pot without interference.

    • darkcycle

      Wrong again, Brian (and haven’t I gone ’round with you on this issue before?). Titration is done by approximation. Look into asthma inhalers won’t you? these little devices are notoriously random in the amounts of medication they will deliver with each ‘puff’.
      With each medication there is an effective RANGE. It is that range we shoot for in writing ‘scripts. Are you really convinced that when your ‘script says “5mgs” that you are really getting 5.00mgs, and not 4.59mgs? or 5.75mgs?
      Reality says that for each individual, there’s an individual effective dose. For psychiatric symptoms, some people are helped by a little bit of Haldol, while others get huge relative doses, with a prolixin kicker just to help it along, and sometimes the best you can hope for is sedation, not the cessation of psychiatric symptoms (the primary purpose of the medicine).
      Furthermore, some medications have a huge range for titration compared to others. A medication’s toxicity plays the biggest role here, and go figgur…marijuana has no toxic level, no level at which there are permanent side effects, and all of it’s side effects are manageable sub-clinically. In other words, there is little need for strict dosing requirements, so the titration is a merely a matter of reaching the effective dose. No other concerns are even warranted.
      Medicine is as much an art as a science, Brian, and as much as they’d like you to believe that this is all standardized and carved in stone, it is not.
      I can give you and approximate dose, based on the average bong hit with average weed, and that is all the dosing information needed in this instance with this medication.

      • oh gee, you’ve declared me wrong — guess i’ll go hide somewhere and cry.

        dude, try to pay attention and use logic instead of getting pissed at me for pointing out the obvious.

        pills are produced under conditions of quality control to ensure that 5mg = 5mg.

        furthermore, cocaine, meth and opiates are all available medically — what exactly do you think will be the result when sativex is approved as medicine?

        i made my assessment of what will happen — explain how i am wrong and what you think will happen to raw cannabis being marketed as medication when there are prescription extracts available.

  • i never stated that cannabinoids are not medically efficacious. clearly reactionary interpretation can interfere with comprehension.

    see if you can follow and maybe you’ll understand why we need to alter our course:

    if you get a prescription for an opiate-based pain reliever, which smoking opium dispensary do you go to to get it filled?

    by insisting that marijuana is “medicine” you acquiesce to the requirements of the CSA. i don’t know about you guys, but i don’t believe that my intoxicants need to meet any requirement whatsoever as a “medicine.”

    so, call it medicine if you wish — but don’t whine when the conditions of the CSA are brought to bear against you. and fer chrissakes stop acting surprised about what the bad guys are doing.

    • darkcycle

      I follow, and you are still wrong. You smoke? I vaporize, eat, and use tinctures. I medicate using the oral route, the topical route, the sub-lingual, and yes, the inhalation route, just like those little asthma inhalers you may be familiar with. And, contrary to your assertions, prior to 1937, smoked cannabis was most certainly medicine. If you were an asthma sufferer, you were likely prescribed cigarettes, comprised of 80% cannabis, 20% belladonna (atropine). They worked very well, and you purchased them directly from your druggist.
      And just how am I acquiescing to the CSA? the CSA states cannabis is “Schedule 1, No accepted medical use”. I just told you it has medical efficacy. Maybe you don’t really understand the CSA…it isn’t about what’s MEDICINE and what’s not. The medicines in the CSA aren’t the most deadly or dangerous, you won’t even find deadly poisons like Warfarin listed there. You won’t find dosage information there, it doesn’t concern itself with safety…It’s a tool designed by Congress to “legally” ban substances. Nothing more and nothing less. By advocating for medical marijuana I am automatically not acquiescing to the CSA.
      Furthermore, unless you are a doctor, you shouldn’t be in the business of telling people what is and what isn’t medicine. Same thing I tell all the prohibitionists who claim that marijuana isn’t medicine. You have no place inserting your opinion (and acknowledge this fact, Brian, it IS only your opinion)into this argument. Other people’s courses of treatment for serious illness, and their doctor’s decisions regarding this treatment IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.

      • jesus, dude, your insipid knee-jerk reactions are becoming tiresome. i am not defendingthe csa nor claiming that it is in any way useful or necessary. nor have i claimed that cannabinoids don’t have medical efficacy. whether any of us likes it or not, the csa is the governing law that applies to the cannabis plant — and the guys who write the rules don’t want anyone using raw cannabis for anything remember? not even paper, oil, rope or fuel. NOTHING!

        so, my good man, kindly dispense with the histrionics and read this slowly: i am telling you why and how the feds are going to put an end to medical marijuana dispensaries. i honestly don’t give a shit about arguing over the medical properties of pot — i’m simply trying to get people to PAY THE FUCK ATTENTION to what the enemy is doing.

      • darkcycle

        Do you even pay attention to what you write? Can you even follow an arguement or are you so convinced that you’re right and everybody else is doing it wrong that anything anybody else says turns to “Wah-wah-wah-wah”? I was tired of you months ago. But at least I was (mostly) civil.

      • cannabis extracts will become available by prescription, and whole plant cannabis will remain on schedule I.

        offer an alternative interpretation of what’s going on or stfu.

        you are a chronic name caller, which makes you less than “civil” where i come from, but i guess everyone needs a way to feel good about themselves.

        it’s argument, not “arguement” — so see if you can focus on the message (that is, the argument) instead of embarrassing yourself trying to belittle me.

  • David Marsh

    @Brian, what part of the CSA requirements are you talking about acquiescing to? What conditions of the CSA would be brought to bear? What schedule do you think cannabis would be re-classified in? Because of Schedule I classification the science cannot be done to identify and quantify the potential medicines that could be produced.

    If the scheduling criteria were logically and legally applied cannabis would be removed from the CSA. If you think though that cannabis will be uncontrolled after the “war” ends you are mistaken. The best we can hope for is an alcohol tobacco model. Your intoxicant is an intoxicant and public policy rarely relies on personal discretion when it comes to anything enjoyable.

    I’m never surprised about what the bad guys do, they are predictable. Its everyone else that is confusing.

    • cannabis will remain schedule I — extracts of cannabis (i.e. medicine of known ingredients and dosage) will be schedule III. that’s why the dea is changing the language.

      it doesn’t matter what is logical in the case of the csa — what matters is that while it remains the *law* there will be no federal recognition of whole cannabis as a viable medicine.

      the same applies to coca leaves and opium poppies in case you haven’t been paying attention.

      arguing with me about whether or not pot is “medicine” is a waste of time. i’m not saying that cannabinoids do not possess medical properties — i’m telling you why the events of the past five years are clear evidence that the days of cannabis dispensaries are numbered.

      • DdC

        Ya, what he said…

        “Marihuana” is a very dangerous drug and even small amounts can cause hysteria, bed wetting and strokes among members of drug free America cults. If legalized their heads could potentially explode.

        Is The DEA Legalizing THC?

        Here comes Grubbs Barthwell and Bayer
        while Ganja and Hemp remain for the outlaws. Hummm sounds familiar…
        Because it is…

        So if they would keep Ganja medicine exclusively for the corporations.
        There is no logical reason to think they didn’t do the same damn thing to keep Ethanol, Hemp and Recreational use from we the people. The trouble with this drug war is its so obvious, it only pisses you off when appeasers try to make sense of it by spewing hobgoblins.

        Al Capone and Watergate were red herrings to divert the countries attention from the Fascist acts of eliminating competition. Booze/Ethanol or Ganja//Hemp.

  • aaah… I think brian’s first comment is one of his best in as far as tempering his angst (a fairly common one btw) and anger.

    In Pete’s response to brian he says:

    Putting faith in the resources of organizations to do the job is like putting faith in politicians.

    Absolutely, we have our bureaucracy too. Just as an example… NORML has been around since the ’70s and is itself now an established organization with its own bureaucracy. Has it accomplished anything in 40 years if we’re further behind now than then? Is the goal to maintain the org or to work at a level that guarantees an end to the need of the org’s existence?

    We really do need to heed those within our own ranks who point out the obvious. And as one of those that occasionally push on some of these sore points I only hope that folks accept it as criticism of “the movement” and not as finger pointing at individuals.

    The reality that we all are different, think different, have different peak moments in our lives that shape how we work to overcome obstacles. The trick for us all is to maintain a focus on the most obvious of the lies and liars.

    When folks like Ms Barfwell utter these excremental pontifications, specifically challenging one aspect of the cannabis issue like the medical one Andrea stabs, it is the obligation of those organizations with their focus on medical cannabis to respond. And their response needs to be no-holds-barred-“Andrea-you-are-a-liar” eloquent dissections of her lies. This is where MPP, ASA and the other medical orgs need to jump, hard and with both feet.

    We may have disasters on all fronts keeping the media busy but they still have pot as a high profile issue and gladly accept – are even hungry for – potent, controversial opinions.

    And we’re not failing, it’s just a big f’ing issue. There is little the drug war does not touch.

    We don’t have to like each other (heck, we’ve mostly not even met each other…) but we sure as hell need to work together.

    I regularly reach states of mind where I’m ready to wash my hands of it all and to make myself happy, go out do what I enjoy rather than that which raises my blood pressure and makes me want to do knuckle dances on Prohibitionist noggins… but… I’m still here. I’ve too much invested in this moronathon to back away now. I suspect I’m not alone in feeling this way…

    • roger that allan, and there is no way i’m changing my songs — i call it like i see it on see on both sides of the aisle. if that makes people uncomfortable or hostile toward me, i honestly don’t care. i’m here to win a war.

      and truly if anybody thinks i’m waiting around for somebody else to get the job done (especially some bloated bureaucracy), they clearly aren’t paying attention. the entire reason i do what i do is because i got tired of waiting for someone else to do what needs to be done, and it was very obvious to me that none of the self-proclaimed “leading” organizations is really working to put themselves out of business.

      we need to pull all of the people and threads together into a coherent whole — yet another song i’ve been singing for quite some time.

  • ezrydn

    Andrea Barfwell would say the Martians had landed if it meant another buck for her and her ilk.

  • Jake

    @Brian, I don’t see why Cannabis in its natural form to be used for smoking can’t be measured. Carefully controlled clones are grown, just like at GW pharma. All conditions kept constant (humidity, temperature, lighting etc.). From that you take regular samples and test for key chemicals (THC, CBD) using things such as chemical analysis or mass spectrometry you get a pretty accurate percentage. Then you know if you buy 1 gram of product ‘x’ Cannabis you would know just how much you are getting i.e. a measure. This kind of thing is already done with foodstuffs e.g. you buy a bag of rice and it has x-amount of carbohydrates, y-amount of vitamins etc. and is not too hard to do.

    It should be noted as well that different people metabolise drugs at different rates, even the weather can effect your metabolism rate (http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20928033.800-one-pill-or-two-the-weather-can-help-doctors-decide.html). ‘Standard’ doses therefore differ from person to person. So when someone smokes a ‘measured’ dose you take regular blood samples across over a period of time (0-8hrs for example) for a population to see how that dose is absorbed and broken down by different people to build a statistical picture – I strongly advise watching the chair of the UK ACMD talking about Cannabis here http://vimeo.com/19315276. In that he says that smoking is a remarkably effective method of ingesting Cannabinoids and has evidence to prove it.

    So an accurate measure can be determined from herbal Cannabis designed to be smoked. It may not be 100% but 99.5%, which is good enough to build an accurate picture on which to base scientific dosing advice. I am by no means advocating smoking Cannabis as the only delivery method, but please don’t say when smoked it can’t be measured as that is just not true.

    • Duncan20903

      Down at U-Miss they grow the cannabis. Then they extract the THC. I found out recently that they use liquid CO2 to do this. Then the take the return, mix it with a surfactant, figure out how much vegetable matter more or less is needed for their idea of a correct amount of THC and reapply resulting in a crop of identical joints. I think Kellogs must have paid for product placement because the GI pot goes “snap, crackle, pop” when smoked.

      In other news I heard that the stimulus packaged has been used to pay crews of men to dig holes to a certain specification and another crew comes along after and is paid to re-fill them.

      Liquid CO2 eh?

      • DdC

        Dunkem you know your word for anything won’t cut it.
        Bring refs. Cloning plants has proven to be good for providing a consistent
        strain with patient feedback as to how well it works. Once established the same strain can be reproduced forever. Extracts may be in the works for sublingual sprays. Your description makes no sense. As for exact dosages, nothing provides it since all patients size, weight and metabolisms are different. So each toke of a joint provides as much consistency as Pharmaceuticals. Measurable by the amount of tokes required. Although that is the key, not numbers. Especially since you can’t overdose on Ganja.

        This is what comes from the Monopoly Farm in Mississippi. Schwag stems, seeds and leaves. All parts that shouldn’t be smoked. Rolled joints, not CO2 extracts. If they are extracting, then bring the refs…

        This 6-inch diameter canister held 254.89 grams of federal medical marijuana for an IND patient, a typical monthly supply mailed from the federal cannabis research garden in Mississippi.

        Cannabis: Legally grown and provided in daily smoked dosages

        Patients Out of Time is pleased to be a contributer to Len Richmond’s important new film, “What if Cannabis Cured Cancer”, which features video of Raphael Mechoulam, PhD and Robert Melamede, PhD from our 2004 National Clinical Conference on Cannabis Therapeutics.

        “Could the chemicals found in marijuana prevent and even heal several deadly cancers? Discover the truth about this ancient medicine as world-renowned scientists in the field of cannabinoid research illustrate their truly mind-blowing discoveries.

        Note. Compassionate Use Act not the MMJ Act – 10/11/09

      • Duncan20903

        Did somebody fart?

        Somebody really needs to cut back on the onions.

        http://www.organalabs.com/co2extraction.htm

      • DdC

        Got ref’s foxy?

        When CO2 (carbon dioxide) is subjected to high pressure, the gas turns into liquid. This liquid CO2 can be used as a very inert, safe, “liquid solvent.” which will extract the aromatic molecules in a process similar to that used to extract absolutes (above.) The advantage, of course, is that no solvent residue remains, since at normal pressure and temperature, the CO2 simply reverts to a gas and evaporates. Read more

        a surfactant is a chemical…

        Pulmonary alveolar proteinosis (PAP) is a rare lung disease in which abnormal accumulation of surfactant occurs within the alveoli,
        The disease is more common in males and in tobacco smokers.

        All cleaning products rely on “surfactants” (agents which act on surfaces). Many synthetic surfactants are derived from petroleum or other chemicals.

        Natural surfactants, from vegetable oils, can do the job as well or better than chemical-based surfactants. Some companies that use chemical surfactants must pay to treat their polluted wastewater in order to comply with environmental laws.

        European tests indicate that hemp seed oil based natural surfactant cleaners work as well or better than those based on other oils such as coconut, soy or canola.

        Marinol is a softgel cap with sesame oil.

        According to Dr. George Kunos, scientific director of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism at the National Institute of Health, there are about 18 cannabinoid-related compounds under active pharmaceutical development.

        So what is our top marijuana-dealer, Dr. ElSohly, doing with his U.S. government monopoly on cannabis research? Funny you should ask. He’s working with Mallinckrodt, a British company with offices throughout the United States, to develop a plant-extract form of Marinol.

        Yes, the good doctor has been busy and he’s also patented a suppository containing THC hemisuccinate, which breaks down into THC when absorbed by the body.

        The Drug Enforcement Administration has turned down an application by a University of Massachusetts botanist seeking to grow cannabis for research purposes.

        We were doing extractions on orange peel in the 80’s for essence oils. If you have a handy dandy dry ice compressor or maybe an Industrial Evaporator for concentrate. But this would be hash oil. Where do you see the joint consistency by this adding vegetation. I’m not searching now but when it was brought up by UMass Lyle Craker, ElSohly said they could produce two levels of THC by cloning. This ext. makes more sense for sublingual sprays or elixirs. Can’t find anything about extracting with CO2 or spraying joints with a surfactant? Smoking these adulterants means it isn’t Ganja. Same with cigarettes aren’t just tobacco. If the feds are adulterating the IND program “marihuana” it could mean something. Got refs? Same with the feds costly extraction when cloning, especially under legal conditions would be consistant and cheap. Again does this little birdy have refs?

        Feds Need One Million Joints – 10/14/01
        The government may be waging a war on illegal drugs, but it continually has the need for marijuana a lot of marijuana. In fact, it has just placed an order for one million cannabis (marijuana) cigarettes and some bulk pot, both Mexican and Colombian.

        CO2 extraction or Supercritical Fluid Extraction (SFE) is known for being the most effective way to extract beneficial essences from plant matter. [1] This method is not only used for cannabis concentrates, but is also used to create pure essential oils and to strip out or separate different elements of botanicals. Popular products manufactured using this method are: herbal essential oils, hops for beer, high value pharmaceutical precursors and decaffeinated coffee.

        “natural” and look it up in the Concise Oxford Dictionary we would find this description of natural thus; “existing in, or caused by nature; produced by nature; not artificial; true to nature; uncultivated; wild existing in natural state; not disguised or altered”

        Surface-active-agents are substances capable of dissolving oils and holding dirt in suspension so it can be rinsed away with water. They are used in skin cleansers and shampoos which are often claimed to contain “natural” ingredients.

    • @jake — among the problems with using whole plant preparations are simple things like deterioration of the product and the variation in levels of the various cannabinoids in different parts of the plant.

      yes, you can get an average — but unfortunately that is not sufficient to gain approval from the fda as a medicine.

      like it or not, extracts of cannabis compounds are going to be the approved medicines, while whole plant cannabis (and those in possession of it) will remain “criminal” as far as the feds are concerned.

      • Jake

        Here in the UK Sativex has been approved and is a whole extract. All I was trying to say is that you can measure the smoked form and do it pretty accurately i.e. within acceptable levels for medical use (I still advise watching that vid if/when you get a chance). Whether or not the FDA would ever allow it is another issue steeped more in prejudice and financial pharmaceutical incentives than the science, but the ‘science’ can allow for measured doses via smoking. Just my ‘science-geek’ 2 cents…

      • DdC

        I’ve been saying the same since Barthwell went to Canada. Their key is to keep Hemp products imported and the Booze Corps happy not competing with a superior product. Lowering cannabinoids csa level while patenting ? individual cannabinoids. Means cannabis would still be illegal for anyone without the mark of the beast. But you sound as if its a matter of fact the government will continue in this Fascism. While I’m seeing it as evidence the government is employing Fascism concerning cannabis. I hope I’m not getting Opto-mystic…

  • Erik Greiner

    To say that Pot has no medicinal use is ignorant. You SUCK!

  • DdC

    You from Pittsburgh cyril? Drinking that river water?

    Nazi Con Flicts of Interest Bush Barthwell & Drugs

    And the profits of the ASAM are NOT threatened by legalization. Unfortunately, some people may find this evidence “convincing” and self-medicate a serious disease with marijuana while forgoing a medicine that IS FDA approved. For example,

    No health insurance, job outsourced, too many side effects, too expensive. oh and btw, legalizing would remove your rehab profits from please bargain court jesters ruling, same with less pisstasting.

    all the hype about marijuana curing cancer.

    all this hype is about cannabis, what is cancer? A healthy cell gone bad. So if it can go bad it can also return to its original state. If the cannabinoids in your body are amplified to do this. It is plausible. Since medicinal research has been outlawed since 1974 after the discovery of brain tumor size reduction. Any private funded research either uses illicit quality cannabis buds with consistent strains by cloning. Or through many hoops only to end with Monopoly Farms schwagg of stems seeds and leaves. Now either you’re completely daft, or a troll.

    If you get cancer, just use marijuana and you will be cured.

    If you were able to use Ganja how would you get cancer? It protects the cells. If you used Ganja and Hemp you could replace the carcinogens spewed by fossil fools, poisons and nuks. Hemp homegrown biodegradable plastics and Fuel with neutral emissions. The FDA works for Wall St. Rumsfeld Searle can fast track Aspartame and no one’s tested the oldest medicine on the planet? So again are you completely stupid or a troll cheer leader for the Pharms?

    No need for doctors.

    No doctors left. AMA puppets.
    Fossil fools paradise.

    Marijuana is not FDA approved like other medicines because it hasn’t been tested for all these applications it supposedly has.

    The oldest plant cultivated, imagine that? Wonder why wonder boy?

    Cover-Ups, Prevarications, Subversions & Sabotage

    As the article says, smoking is bad for your health.

    The article should be written in crayon. Smoking Ganja prevents smoke from cars and trucks and smoke stacks from harming lungs by expectorating. As it has done thousands of years. Cough elixirs by the same Pharmaceutical Complex. Like the ones making FDA approved “products” to sell to “patients/customers” Nothing to do with the health of we the people.

    Ask a marijuana user about that and the answer is, you can use edibles.

    I’ve used Ganja daily for 40 years. Edibles are harder to meter. If you can’t swallow pills its more difficult to eat. Smoking’s fine. If irritants bother, clean bongs and most likely vaporizers won’t harm. Placing buds on hot rocks in cauldrons under a Hemp tapestry dome worked 25 hundred years ago with the Scythians. Works for me. Although I prefer old fashioned traditional spliffs.

    why don’t YOU use edibles and the response is–it isn’t convenient.

    I just told you, and you don’t listen or is it comprehension? Who said it was inconvenient? Unless you’re homeless. Even then in civilized counties in civilized states you can just buy it in the Ganja bakery’s or get trimmings and leaf and brownie it up. But you seem to think one way is better or worse. Thats silly. None of it is harmful.

    Put your money where your mouth is.

    If that floats your moneyslut boat goferit. Eating dirty money isn’t healthy. Your diversion stigmatizing aids domestic government and grant paid private propagandists to terrorize sick Americans. Again are you just mean and stupid or just mean and greedy?

    If you are concerned about health, don’t smoke,

    OK so stupid it is. Glad we can move on. If you don’t smoke you have nothing opening the small airways for asthma patients. Ganja being the only known substance to stop a full blown attack. Again you are so brainwashed you think these toxins, dioxins and pcb’s are legal therefore OK. While wrestling Polio patients to the floor pointing automatic weapons at their heads is justified because they relieved symptoms illicitly. Maybe insane is more appropriate. Mass Wingnutism.

    marijuana is medicine–smoking is not medicine

    Your full of BS why would someone give you more? Cannabis is one of the safest and oldest medicines in the entire Pharmacopeia. Many cultures especially China and India. You and the entire medical profession are snake oil salesmen and might as well be selling Kellogg electric gadgets during the wellness movement. Its all about treating symptoms and the same subsidiaries are selling and spraying the poisons causing the illness you never treat, just the symptoms. Or just chemical tricks and even total replacement acquiring lifelong addictions, as with Parkinson or Most Neurological issues. Drug pushers. No thanks herbal medicine has worked longer combined with organic food and clean air and water we do just fine. Fascist bitch!

    Using marijuana 24/7 is dependence

    What are you some kind of nut? Who tokes while asleep? I don’t toke until 4:20, unless I don’t feel like it. My business. My health is fine and preventing illness may take profits from the AMA complex, but it works for me. Cures and Prevention, the enemy of the AMA. Ganja cures and prevents. Next!

    just like nicotine dependence. If you are turned into a zombie, of course you don’t feel pain and you think everything is okay.

    And kill your brother, look whitey in the eyes for 3 second. The real reason to outlaw it is due to the degenerate races. So your reefer idiocy behind the racist idiocy keeping competition off the market. You bow down and kiss their ass, then say thank you. Traitor to the country.

    But run out of marijuana–and wow, just see how irritable you get.

    Smash your TV before the supper bowl and see millions go ape shit. Are you that stupid to think people do things because they don’t know better? If Ganja helps relieve stress without booze or pills. What’s it to you except if you can lie and force courts to believe they need your saving grace and thousands of dollars for rehab. Well you can kiss my ass moneyslut. Americans don’t act that way. You think Wall St. ever gonna trickle down anything more than your lousy paycheck schmuck? You lie and people die its that simple.

    Just go back into your stupor and stay there

    Why don’t we meet and you can tell me that to my face you gutless whore.

    But don’t tell me you can think scientifically about what is and is not medicine.

    The actual patients and users testify but for profit drug worriers, it only works if they aren’t heard. The medicinal research tells you, we just bring it Quackman. Your fed lies that don’t even jive and then cry over them teasing your foolishness. Weasel, geek, probably get off on policy that hurts poor people. Probably like pulling wings off flies. Sicko.

    Granny Storm Crow’s MMJ List

    And the profits of the ASAM are NOT threatened by legalization.

    You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile…

    No Ganja addicts twerp. Do the math. 80 million smoked in the 60’s and 70’s. 60 million sold themselves to satan and stopped. That equals a whole bunch of addicts that don’t even know they are addicts and that my friends spells trouble. That starts with a Tee and rhymes with “P” and that means “POT”! Reich Heir in River City! Your unsubstantiated Hobgoblins of future tragedy never pan out from past predictions. You sell fear and that is reprehensible and makes you a coward vulture feeding on kids. pitifool!

    Endocannabinoids

    “Narcotics police are an enormous, corrupt international bureaucracy … and now fund a coterie of researchers who provide them with ‘scientific support’ … fanatics who distort the legitimate research of others. … The anti-marijuana campaign is a cancerous tissue of lies, undermining law enforcement, aggravating the drug problem, depriving the sick of needed help, and suckering well-intentioned conservatives and countless frightened parents.”
    — William F. Buckley,
    Commentary in The National Review, April 29, 1983, p. 495

  • David Marsh

    @Brian, The law reads “accepted medical use in the United States” 21 C.F.R. § 1308.11(d)(22) not accepted medicine. There is Gonzales v. Oregon, 546 U.S. 243 (2006) that says that federal regulations do not trump state laws on accepted medical treatments. And, Grinspoon v. DEA, 828 F.2d 881 (1st Cir. 1987) that says accepted medical use in treatment “in the United States” doesn’t mean everywhere in the United States.

    “Medical use” is the achilles heel of the CSA. The States define “accepted medical use” not the federal government. The states are the only ones with standing to effectively require the HHS to re-schedule in recognition of “accepted medical use”. The question is, will a medical state petition for re-scheduling and how far will they go to protect their patients.

    The federal government can go after the dispensaries, or patients for that matter, any time they want for violation of the Federal CSA. They don’t, because of the politics of arresting sick people and their problem with Gonzales v. Oregon and the dispensaries having enough money to withstand the lengthy appeal process and possibly winning. SCOTUS did not take San Diego v Normal so they know they may have trouble with those who are in compliance with the state medical MJ law.

    What they will do, and be very effective at, is using Tax code to destroy the dispensary system not the CSA. That is why it is important to get a medical state to petition for re-scheduling as the tax code does not allow for business deductions for substances classified as Schedule I.

    Do you know why Grinspoon is important? Because previous re-scheduling petitions have been denied using the “everywhere in the United States” language definition and the petitioners were denied appeals of the definition because they did not have standing. With the state having standing they (the government) will have a hard time making “everywhere” stick if it goes to appeal.

    I am trying to pay attention but maybe I missed something.

    • DdC

      THCF’s Paul Stanford Arrested Al Capone Style
      Oregon businessman and cannabis freedom fighter tries to set the record straight on “tax fraud” arrest.

      • DdC

        “Because Fascism is a lie,
        it is condemned to literary sterility.
        And when it is past, it will have no history,
        except the bloody history of murder.”
        – Ernest Hemingway (1898-1961)

        IRS Tells Medical Marijuana Dispensary It Owes Millions In Taxes

        “The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed, for the vast masses of the nation are in the depths of their hearts more easily deceived than they are consciously and intentionally bad. The primitive simplicity of their minds renders them a more easy prey to a big lie than a small one, for they themselves often tell little lies but would be ashamed to tell a big one.”
        ~ Benito Mussolini,
        “London Sunday Express,” December 8, 1935

        “How many murders, suicides, robberies, criminal assaults, holdups, burglaries and deeds of maniacal insanity it causes each year, especially among the young, can only be conjectured…No one knows, when he places a marijuana cigarette to his lips, whether he will become a joyous reveller in a musical heaven, a mad insensate, a calm philosopher, or a murderer…”
        ~ HARRY J ANSLINGER
        Commissioner of the US Bureau of Narcotics 1930-1962

        IRS Approach Poses New Threat to California Marijuana Dispensaries

        The Lancet, vol 352, number 9140, November 14 1998: “We.. say that on the medical evidence available, moderate indulgence in cannabis has little ill-effect on health, and that decisions to ban or legalise cannabis should be based on other considerations.”

        Green Aid: The Medical Marijuana Legal Defense and Education Fund

        1968 UK ROYAL COMMISSION, THE WOOTTON REPORT: “Having reviewed all the material available to us we find ourselves in agreement with the conclusion reached by the Indian Hemp Drugs Commission appointed by the Government of India (1893-94) and the New York Mayor’s Committee (1944 – LaGuardia)that the long-term consumption of cannabis in moderate doses has no harmful effects” “the long-asserted dangers of cannabis are exaggerated and that the related law is socially damaging, if not unworkable”

        Could medical marijuana get the Al Capone treatment

        LaGuardia Commission Report, 1944: “Cannabis smoking does not lead directly to mental or physical deterioration… Those who have consumed marijuana for a period of years showed no mental or physical deterioration which may be attributed to the drug.”

    • @david — oops, i’m sorry i missed your comments until now. this is what i think is going on:

      the fda will approve sativex and it will be available as a sched iii prescription only drug. any new extracts and synthetic substances that are next developed will be evaluated using the fda’s protocol for new drugs, and the dea will then decide which schedule the drug is placed into based on the existing criteria of accepted use and susceptibility to abuse. those drugs that are found to be effective medicines will be classed as either sched II or III substances — as is currently done with opiates.

      raw cannabis will remain sched I, simply because the availability of prescription drugs of known purity and dose will obviate the need to consider re-evaluating the status of the plant on medical grounds. the bottom line is that it isn’t the plant matter that has medical efficacy, it is the cannabinoids. thus, if the cannabinoids can be extracted and made available as prescription medications, then nobody needs to be buying vegetation to treat what ails them.

      the dea wants to keep what it has, and what it has is significantly impacted by any change to the legal status of the cannabis plant. they write the rules for the csa — they do not have the slightest intention of allowing people to grow marijuana for any reason. remember, they can’t tell the medical pot plants apart from the hemp plants and the recreational ones. keeping the plant illegal means they don’t have to learn how, and they get to keep funding their worldwide projection of power.

      as to how the feds will specifically go after the state and local laws, i think that they will again (ab)use the good old reliable commerce clause. doctors in medical pot states are not currently prescribing cannabinoids — they are “recommending” the use of cannabis. so when fda approved cannabinoid medicines are available, the dispensing of plant matter goes bye bye.

      lastly, i would love for several states to go after the csa — but i want them to do it on the grounds of individual rights and liberty.

  • vicky vampire

    Interesting conversation everyone: Brian Bennett you mentioned the days of Cannabis Medical Dispensaries are numbered,Look no one can predict the future these days yeah, it Looks totally obvious at times but we are living in interesting shocking volatile times any thing can change for a whole variety of reasons and yeah,HELL Whiskey is legal and you can brew beer and wine for your own use in some states now Whiskey cause they say is harder,explosive and they want those heavy taxes now has that stopped folks from doing the Moonshine for years and years Dispensaries legal or not the folks will still grow there own for quality recreational and Medicinal weed regardless if Dispensaries are outlawed or weed is legal or not. Remember this is a huge cash crop,if its taxed to heavily even more will grow there own.

  • vicky vampire

    Oh and one more thing there is a link that Ddc has by Geoff Watts called High hopes for cannabinoid analgesia after reading it you realize how many years this country has wasted screwing around doing nothing about real pain relief.and research we should be way ahead the article states that decades of irrational prejudice hampered research,yeah along IMHO with ignorance,greed and the extreme irrational morality police. besides poverty and millions dieing from wars itS A national tragedy that we are behind in Marijuana research and who knows what other thing out there that are being suppressed that we are not quite yet aware of yet.

  • Duncan20903

    brian, the one flaw in your logic about strict measuring for prescriptions is that Pro Re Nata (PRN) prescriptions exist and are OK with the DEA. PRN translates into English “as needed or required”. The patient decides when he needs to take it, and he can take as much of the medicine as he decides that he needs. Precisely what medical cannabis detractors are complaining about.

    I do mostly agree with you about the Feds being in process of shutting down the medical cannabis dispensaries. I really do hope to be proven a victim of self induced hysterical rhetoric on that particular issue though.

    • “use as required” refers to the interval between doses, not the dose itself. prescriptions are written for a known dose — a measured quantity. an inhaler can control a dose while leaving the patient to determine if it is required.

      no matter how hard you try, you can’t create a standard measure of the dose for a puff from a joint, pipe, bong or vaporizer. that’s the rub, and that’s why we will see the end of raw cannabis being considered a medicine.

      it is also important to understand that no doctor in any of the states where medical marijuana is available is writing a prescription for it.

      when it happens, no one will be deprived of their medicine — they’ll just be required to get an actual prescription and buy it at a drug store like they do with every other “medicine”

      • darkcycle

        All dosing is approximate and occurs within a range. I monitored patients on major medications for sixteen years, but what do I know? I guess I could just repeat myself, but that obviosly won’t do any good. You seem so convinced that there’s no way to accuratly dose. And you persist in believing that for a medication with Zero overdose risk and limited side effects this is even somehow important. BTW, havent you ever had a ‘script that reads “Take one to two tablets, every x hours”? That’s a pretty big range, don’t you think?
        But for arguement’s sake, let’s presume you’re correct; that that is the method the Feds will take to end medical cannabis. If so, how does the federal government require the States that have MMJ laws to repeal them? As @David Marsh just pointed out upthread that State law trumps Federal law, Via Gonzales V. Oregon?
        You waste alot of emotional energy on an issue that seems pretty unlikely to work….and you seem to have bought into the “there’s no standard dosing” line so thoughoghly that there’s just no addressing that issue… Maybe you should take a bong hit and relax a little.

      • DdC

        What’s in it for me.

        The FDA is a Political body. Everything they do has an ulterior motive. But consistency is not something they can argue. As stated, clones can provide consistency. The size of the bowl or joint with a pre-measured amount is a consistent dose. The fact it takes the patient several puffs to get the dose. Or half a bowl. Regardless, the amount sold would be consistent. A 1000 ml isn’t taken at once. It’s measured in smaller doses but still isn’t perfectly consistent because the patient today is different than they were yesterday. Each second cells die and rejuvenate. If you’re working two shifts meds will react different than if you’re rested.

        A Nebulizer uses measured doses poured into a transducer and toked the same as a bong. Each Physician measures the patients stats and arbitrarily, on an educated guess or most likely a chart made up from educated guesses. Then prescribes it on the same trial basis as Ganja patients. Does it work? Yes or No then reevaluate and try a different dose or medication/strain if need be. Most likely sold by several young chicks in mini skirts taking up half the waiting room. All with free samples the doctor can pass on to favorites. That’s the AMA not ASA.

        The chemicals are required to be consistent. But doses and time intervals are according to the patients needs. PRN, BID, TID etc. If an asthma inhaler is measured then a pipe or bong has a measured bowl to provide a measured amount. Each pill is stamped with an id, colored or shaped. Binders, dyes and fillers and the entire infrastructure. All side effects to the patient, tax payer and the environment. Overall it works on paper. Now foreign black markets are flooding OTC and prescription Pharmaceuticals. Such a fuss to assure pain doesn’t interfere with proper dosing. The DEAth prefer agony over the far out notion they might accidentally get “high”

        Airbags are used to provide a bag full of smoke to take PRN. So the argument boils down to what can be done to provide safe measured doses vs the DEA rejecting it, and so be it. As for the FDA, don’t let the door hit them in the ass on their way to the big house. Corruption 101. Most of the FDA are previous chemical pushers. They don’t test hemp seed as food either. Or meat. The ground beef that will sicken your kids if they eat it raw isn’t their jurisdiction. It falls under the USDA. Meat is agriculture? As long as Pharm corps controls the oversight, Ganja will be outlawed. Doesn’t make it taste any different. Drugs have little to do with the drug war and until that is realized all this bickering is the same as little old ladies sipping tea bitching about the curtain color.

        Is The DEA Legalizing THC?

        The FDA had no intention of ever “testing” raw Ganja buds and can’t test what HHS doesn’t tell them to test. 1999, this was it. The IOM would free the weed. Still it sits at the HHS. Marinol wasn’t tested, just fast tracked as a deterrent to AIDs patients wanting Ganja. They got from Stoners who they were so willing to throw under the bus. Like asshole rednecks and conservative flag jerkers finding Ganja is the best meds, then blaming hippies because moneyslut prohibitionists are greedy and uncaring about Americans. In spite of their consistent banter.

        Until Libertarians accept checks and balance and wean themselves from the moneysluts and Greens accept that some corporations can do a lot in the clean up and promotion of Ganja and Hemp. That clean air, soil and water provides Liberty. For both to reject the Neocon war machine and petro chemical factory farms and private prison industrial complex. Get over the small stuff and prejudges. For gawd sakes stop waiting for the great trickle down while supporting tax dodging cut throat DEAth Merchants. There’ll be war.

        Until the philosophy which hold one race superior. And another Inferior, And abandoned – Everywhere is war – Me say war.

        That until there no longer. First class second class citizens of any nation Until the color of a man’s skin Is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes –
        Me say war.

        That until the basic human rights Are equally guaranteed to all, Without regard to race – Dis a war.

        That until that day The dream of lasting peace, World citizenship Rule of international morality Will remain in but a fleeting illusion to be pursued, But never attained – Now everywhere is war – war.

        Life over DEAth. These are the pleading compromisers and barters requiring “laws” before they end the suffering of their own families. They are the sideline’s going along with the lies until it hits them personally. None of it has anything to do with Science. Making a prediction the FDA won’t accept unmeasurable raw vegetation is a diversion and again irrelevant. As I’ve said and shown. The FDA is keeping Ganja and Hemp illegal for Wall St. Fossil fools and the food industry and booze industry as the original intent in 1937.

        Appeasing them is silly. They don’t matter. Until we the people understand this is no regular Political issue. You can’t just fill out the form and wait to be interviewed. The laws of physics have nothing to do with the Ganjawar. It’s all a Koch and Bull story. Like little angry Easter chicks trying to “teach” the mindless know nothings. It ain’t going to happen with logic and fact. Anymore than trying to convince someone Jesus was a hippie. It makes some feel good thinking they’re educating the masses and once that happens poof God Almighty, We’re Free at Last.

        The Ganjawar is good for “reforming” the truth, higher prices, selling books and hundreds of Ganjawar paraphernalia groups and lawyers make a living. Same reasons as dot com or peace love. The infrastructure needed to muster the troops is controlled by a different agenda. Even if you get something broadcast or printed. Its the system you pay. So with every billboard and TV ad, Madison Ave takes your money. They take it from Calvina too. The only winners each election are the Media and Advertising. Hundreds of millions spent and received and taxed. So two people can briefly tell the truth about each other then renege after elected. We should listen closer to the debates then vote no confidence, Next!

        It will happen when the people remove the money and the moneysluts and not a minute sooner. It will teeter totter as it has. Each side showing their troops small victories and crying over defeats. But it will continue because that is where the money is for the Ganjawar brokers. There has not been a plant studied more than Ganja and Hemp and in the US it is unknown. That’s only possible under mass hypnosis, really gullible people or very connected scammers. If we take the media back, we can reach the people, or we can continue the catch 22 and corporate SOP’s replacing the Constitution for our own good. Accepting fraud and perjury as PRN. Accepting our local taxes going federal by the extra cost of redundancy taxing civil servants. In the case of patients, a third of their medical expenses go to DC instead of local nurses and caregivers.

        As far as treating patients with Ganja I’m doing it for 20 years without the “help” of the government. Until the people decide if they want to pursue their own version of happiness and remove the money influence in legislation and justice. We won’t need to worry about it because the jobs will be in foreign factories and Wall St. will simply buy whatever candidate serves their agenda. I doubt if Americans can think of anything more than their own needs. “Believers” taught to obey or rehabilitated to obey. Making this entire blog irrelevant outside of mind-fucking each other.

        At the end of the day to rely on a lay person “patient” that will never be consistent with another patient. Or be consistent with their own dosages. Rarely if ever are the meds taken exactly to the second. It’s political. The FDA is managed by appointees. When its budget oversight it’s necessary. When its censorship, sabotage or intentional misleading and lies, it’s Fascism. To legislate profits for one group over another with no reality base… for 74 years.

        Well let me dwell on a story about a flood. A religionist prayed hard for god to save him. The water was rising steadily. When an Army truck came by and told the man to get in he politely refused and said the Lord will save him. The water kept rising and he went to the second floor when a rescue boat came along and again the man refused with the same excuse. Finally he had to go onto the roof and a helicopter hovered, dropping a rope ladder, with a bullhorn pleading for the guy to take hold of it. Again he said he would keep his faith and God would protect him. The man drowned.

        Now he’s at the Pearly Gates, all pissed off asking God why he forsakeded him. He was devout and prayed hard. God shrugged and said… Look schmuck, I sent you a truck, boat and helicopter. Sometimes a little common sense is all you need.

        When we the people start dealing with reality and not appease and compromise with some drug worriers gossip. Frigid in fear of hurting their feelings. Same with the Insurance Corp gossip. The OPEC gossip. The two pretty system and democracy gossip. The wars and terrorist gossip. Then Ganja will be free and the people won’t fear it. We have to control the message machine to bring back a Free Press. To gain access to the entire media. To demand oversight in so called “news”. The “Freedom of the Press” has to be given only to the “Press”.

        Not TV story sellers with an agenda. Not government puppets or corporate puppets reading memo’s. Congress has to be held accountable. Before you vote for the politicians, demand in writing what he or she or whatever intends to do as your representative? Your wants and needs and your communities wants and needs or Lockheed and Haliburton’s. Its our lives and each of us deserve the choice to what defines happiness and how to pursue it. We have had brief periods of Freedom while most fall in to the trap of Greedom. What’s in it for me.

        Fields of Cannabis in Old Brooklyn
        Revisting a long-forgotten war on drugs: librarian unearths texts pertaining to Brooklyn’s long lost botanical history

        Drug Prohibition: 50 Years of Profit for Organized Crime
        Jeremiah Vandermeer
        Who have been the main beneficiaries of the United Nations’ 50-year international treaty to prohibit certain drugs? These thank-you videos to the UN from (fake) organized criminals give us a few illustrations of the rich and powerful monsters created by prohibition.

        Warning! Cannabinoids may cause antitumor effects.

  • malcolm kyle

    The Barthwell link no longer appears to work, so that article at Opposing Views may have been pulled due to us exposing it’s lies.

    • DdC

      American Society of Addiction Medicine Rejects Use of ‘Medical Marijuana,’ Citing Dangers and Failure To Meet Standards of Patient Care
      http://tinyurl.com/Barfwell420
      CHEVY CHASE, Md., March 23, 2011 cache

      Cannabis Should Be Subjected to the Standards of Federal Regulators Rather than to Voters’ Whims at the Ballot Box

      Citing the dangers of marijuana, the lack of clinical research on a controlled substance with a high potential for abuse, and the physician’s oath to “first, do no harm,” the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) today issued a white paper recommending a halt to using the weed as a medicine in states where it has been declared legal.

      Physicians group rejects use of “medical marijuana”
      Jim Kouri * March 25th, 2011 mirror

      While advocates for decriminalization and legalization of marijuana believe they are making progress in achieving their goal now that several states recognize the use of cannabis as a medical treatment, a group of physicians collectively said, “Not so fast.”

      Barfwell420 Rejects Failure To Meet Standards
      ECP/PWJ\DdC

      “The informal network puts physicians in an untenable position as gatekeepers to a controlled substance still deemed illicit by the federal government,” said Dr. Andrea G. Barthwell, former President of ASAM and a former advisor to President George W. Bush on policies aimed at reducing the demand for illicit drugs.

      “We urge physicians to reject this role, and remind those who recommend cannabis that they could fail to meet their professional obligations to patients and possibly have their license revoked,” said Barthwell.

    • darkcycle

      Wouldn’t surprise me Malcolm, did you read our comments? Of course you did! You wrote one as well!
      I’d like to think that maybe we had a little something to do with it…

  • Duncan20903

    Did Conant v Walters (2003) get overturned when I wasn’t paying attention?

    • Duncan20903

      .
      .
      Every valid medicine in the pharmacopoeia was at one time not FDA approved.

      Until 2004 the FDA had never approved any necrotic flesh eating insect larvae or blood sucking worms as medical devices. Would Ms. Barthwell have us believe that maggots and leeches had no medical utility in 2003? Would she have argued that they couldn’t be medical devices because the FDA had never before approved living organisms as FDA compliant medical devices?
      http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/magazine/11ideas_section2-14.html

      Ms. Barthwell and her self serving lapdogs at the ASAM are using a crooked game of 3 card monty in an attempt to perpetrate a fraud on the American public. Don’t fall for it. They are lying through their teeth.

  • Kayla

    I have been doing vast research on Medical Marijuana for my class I am taking. I too vote pro Medical Marijuana because of the opportunity it brings to our nation as a whole. There is more to marijuana than medical purposes. It can make oil, ethanol, rope, and many many more. The great thing about marijuana is that when it is burned the plant releases oxygen. YES! finally something to destroy the CO2 in the air. I have been an avid user for thirteen years now and with my Fibromyalgia, when replaced with marijuana, I FEEL BETTER than I ever did taking pills three times a day. I am supposed to be taking hydrocodone, muscle relaxers, sleeping medications, and tramadol. Now tell me, when you add up what I spend on all of these medications, marijuana actually is cheaper. (not to mention more effective) I have insomnia and just the right dose of marijuana helps me sleep. It helps me eat, counteracts my nausea, and yes takes the ache out of my body. My concern for the use of medical marijuana is I am 26 years old. Fibromyalgia is not curable. So when Im 50, Im going to be on top of the pain chain in pills? Where do I go from there? There is not going to always be something stronger for me to take to cope. I read many medical research papers where it has helped people like me tremendously. marijuana cannot be over dosed on. (well, it can but it is physically impossible to smoke the amount in the time given) so why is it that all these PILLS are legal? When you receive a medication it has instructions on what recommended dose should be taken. I KNOW of many pill poppers in my area that get really fucked up off pills. PILLS ARE DANGEROUS when they are abused. Not to mention, shut down major body systems and organs after prolonged use. The reason why I dislike taking pills is because after awhile your body builds an immunity to these medications which means eventually you are going to always need more. So is it right to tell me that when I reach the top of the pill list, I need to just deal with it? HELL NO. I dont care what the government says, I for one will be using what makes me feel better. I for one like natural supplements anyways so to those of you who say that marijuana is not effective–go to hell, you obviously have never had someone who used it for a medical purpose or had to watch your family suffer.

    • thelbert

      don’t eat the oxy til you read the article “tylenol and the war on drugs” in “are you better off dead…”. they’ve poisoned it with tylenol because pain evasion is abuse. what a sweet “government”.

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