Monday Thread

I’m back from the north woods and thrilled to have reliable wifi again. It’ll take me a while to catch up with the news. Thanks to everyone for your good wishes and concern for my family with my brother-in-law’s death. My sister is doing well, and we’re trying to get her out from under. If anyone is interested in a 4,100 square foot beautiful log house on 10-40 acres of land in gorgeous country away from civilization, we’ve got a great deal for you. She can’t stay there, so the price has been dropped to rock bottom.

bullet imageEric Holder Was the First Attorney General to Hint that it’s Time for the Government to Stop Lying About Marijuana by Paul Armentano

“I think it’s certainly a question that we need to ask ourselves — whether or not marijuana is as serious a drug as is heroin,” Holder said. “[T]he question of whether or not they should be in the same category is something that I think we need to ask ourselves, and use science as the basis for making that determination.”

In reality, the question of whether the available science is consistent with cannabis’ schedule I status has been posed repeatedly over the past four decades. And the answer, to virtually everyone but the US federal government, is now all but self-evident.

bullet image Russ Bellville discovered something

Interesting… when you donate to @KevinSabet’s Project SAM, it is handled thru a email… [Donation Acknowledgement image]

Not sure why that would be done that way, but it does raise more questions about the way S.A.M. was constructed.

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31 Responses to Monday Thread

  1. divadab says:

    Good for Russ for exposing the league of parasitic prohibitionists inflicting themselves on society – and apparently all paid for with tax dollars! The day these guys have to get real jobs can’t come too soon. Just a bunch of prohibition welfare bums, sucking on the government teat.

  2. darkcycle says:

    As regards the Russ B. revelation, I have a number of responses that I may share further down the comment thread. But I think I’ll go with the first response that came to mind after looking at those links: “OOOOH!!OH MAN! AAAAH! OOOH!” In order to truly understand the intended meaning of that comment,you need to picture a 54 year old man with his mouth gaping open, yelling at the top of his voice while simultaneously pointing at the computer screen, and spilling his full cup of hot coffee all over the desk.

    • kaptinemo says:

      They slipped up, big time. If this doesn’t prove illegal government collusion with Project SAM and its propaganda drive, what can? ONDCP caught Hell from GAO about this before…while Kevvie was there.

      Old habits are really hard to break, especially the really bad ones like trying to deceive the public while benefiting from their extorted tax dollars.

      I’d say that a future Congressional investigation (with teeth and balls) would find the paper trail and phone records will prove that Project SAM is wholly an ONDCP operation. Kevvie’s ‘erstwhile'(?) employer. This practically screams “Hatch Act violation!” Once more, ONDCP is up to its slimy, shadow-dwelling old tricks, again.

  3. darkcycle says:

    Second take. It is now no longer illegal for them to propagandize us. If that propaganda is THIS easy to uncover, we may not have to worry so much. But that pretty much closes the question “Are government funds being used to influence local and State elections?” That answer looks like an unequivocal “Yes”.

  4. allan says:

    yeah… that Project SAM deal is interesting, no?

    In Oregon right now, several folks are digging thru Clatsop Co. records and it does appear that *shock* gubmint employees are working against citizen initiatives on our dime.

    Also… my pal Jennifer Alexander deserves far more than a hat tip but hat tips I can afford. She’s digging and digging… helping Russ with his efforts on Oregon voting shenanigans but also much more. Jennifer you rock it w/ I!

    Start digging in your state. Look esp at your anti-drug groups. Do they reconfigure, rename every few years? It could be that’s one of the regional prohibitionists’ cash teats. The drug-free community grants are only given to an org twice. Need a third and fourth? Rename your group (eh, Calvina?) and Uncle Sugar provides another nipple (now there’s a scary graphic).

    And new ‘puter should be in service w/in the week! Y’all prolly won’t recognize me…

    • Common Science says:

      I hope that this nail that Russ Bellville provides, can penetrate a front tire in the “Oregon Marihuana Edumacation Tour” bus. Poor Oregon has been violated enough in recent years by these shameless drug warriors from Florida.

      They certainly won’t be stopping Floridians from legalizing medical marijuana next month despite their subsidized voodoo.

      [Tail swing] LOOK OUT CALVINA!!!

  5. “I think it’s certainly a question that we need to ask ourselves — whether or not marijuana is as serious a drug as is heroin,” Holder said. “[T]he question of whether or not they should be in the same category is something that I think we need to ask ourselves, and use science as the basis for making that determination.”

    Maybe this is why he’s no longer AG.

  6. B. Snow says:

    Using Science? – I can hear the echoes of heads exploding, and I’m pretty sure there are some persons that need a change of underpants too!

    Ironically, Holder is the the only one that can actually say this (He’s not gone Yet!), and what are they gonna do fire him for taking a figurative dump on the “Must Lie Section” of the ONDCP Act? Which only applies to the Director & the office of the President – for which the Director is charged with speaking for (basically in place of the President) regarding all such blatant lies, surrounding this subject.

    (Or that’s how it was) = Hence the flat-out infamous comment by Gil ahortly after he got to D.C. – “Legalization is not in my, nor the President’s Vocabulary… when it comes to this subject” – That may not be word for word but close.

    And, I’ve always suspected that he was actually trying to say “sorry my/our hands are tied on this”… I think that neither he nor the President knew that crap existed until Lying-hart or someone rudely called them on it. And then shoved it on their metaphorical plates like a turd-burger.
    Let’s face it, Even if that wasn’t the case, IT IS plausible and would give them a “political off-ramp” – to help make it possible.
    It seems that Holder is now willing to help – he basically just did a “call & response” of sorts to the hearing where Polis & Cohen asked that question of Madame Lying-hart.

    While, simultaneously “hanging a lantern on it” for the rest of the world to see in the full light of day (or in this case on C-SPAN & YouTube… Yes, I do tend to mix metaphors like there’s no tomorrow, but I think I’m communicating my ideas fairly effectively, (more or less).

    This is sorta like some folks predicted back in 2008/2009 that Obama wouldn’t Do anything about this till the end of his second term. Also, Holder’s gonna be there long enough to do this = if the President chooses a replacement AG that the Senate doesn’t want to confirm…

    It’s kinda brilliant in a way, Holder also said he would be leaving the position. BUT, he wouldn’t be leaving the work. I’m not certain what that meant in his mind – but I know what it sounds like to me = pushing further with undoing the drug war that violates the civil rights of minorities = all-day everyday “24/7-365”.

    Everyone knows, It’s the reason why most people don’t really trust LEO’s – and hesitate to call them unless its absolutely necessary. AG Holder is basically the “the top cop” in the country = What better “Legacy” could he leave than to get rid of the distrust between the general public and the cops?

    Just think, If he could turn some of them back into “Peace Officers” – rather than “Drug Warriors” constantly looking for “evidence in plain sight” – always sniffing for weed every damn where they go on duty. They could begin to bring back the old-timey “Beat Cop”, instead of the “Beatdown Cops” we have now.

    • kaptinemo says:

      Every Administration since Carter has played a game of policy Russian Roulette as to when the tipping point would be reached socially and the majority would want cannabis legal again.

      The trigger’s been squeezed, the hammer fell, the cap busted and the bullet’s heading in slow motion down the barrel. By resigning, Holder has ducked his head down and that policy bullet meant for his political noggin first will now head straight for his boss, President Choom.

      The man who snickered deprecatingly at the ‘Internet people’ who made cannabis re-legalization the top subject in all his ‘Town Halls’, and who sicced his goons on CA as soon as Prop19 failed, backhanding his youngest supporters, must now face that rising demographic I keep nattering on about, the one that has jobs, pays taxes, wants cannabis legal again, and votes.

      And that demographic is in no mood to hear canned, stale ONDCP/DEA supplied propaganda as a justification for maintaining its’ prohibition. That will be the litmus test for young (and some not-so-young; raises hand) voters, and for a pol to fail it by continuing to use that intelligence-insulting scheisse is to risk political death.

      The irony of the present Administration’s position about a subject it has fought covertly behind the scenes with taxpayer-funded groups like his National Marijuana Initiative being faced with such a no-win position for having done so is so delicious you could spread it on toast and have it for breakfast. The sooner the ONDCP becomes toast, the sooner we can enjoy it.

  7. Servetus says:

    Kevin Sabet may or may not be obeying the law depending on how transparent he and Patrick Kennedy are with S.A.M.’s finances. The Federal code is littered with intentionally vague laws designed to snag the unwary, even if they’re not guilty of the major offense. For instance, Martha Stewart didn’t go to jail for insider trading, something which could not be definitively determined, but rather for not being immediately forthcoming and truthful to her federal investigators.

    It takes the constant vigilance of a smart attorney to avoid some of the traps and pitfalls our ignominious government sets for us. It’s not just the drug laws that are affected. Since Sabet never gets his facts straight, anyway, Kevin could end up the next victim of the government malaise that allows him to spout odious nonsense in the first place. A vigilant federal investigation of S.A.M. should be encouraged whenever possible.

  8. claygooding says:

    We can starve SAM if we just shit where Kev can’t find it.

  9. DdC says:


    War-Hero Drug Czar Under Fire In TV Ploy

    Student’s ordeal: How was Daniel Chong lost in DEA detention?

    The Drug Czar’s False Statement About Marijuana and Hemp Should Be a Bigger Scandal

    Lies, Damned Lies, and Drug Czar Speeches

  10. DdC says:

    Perverse U.S. Drug Policies Promote Drug Addiction and Deaths @HuffPostBlog via @HuffPostPol

  11. Res Ipsa Loquitur says:


    The New York Times endorses re-legalization initiatives on Alaska, D.C. and Oregon Election Day ballot:

    Yes to Marijuana Ballot Measures
    Alaska, Oregon and the District of Columbia Should Legalize Pot
    By The Editorial Board
    October 5, 2014

    Opponents of legalization warn that states are embarking on a risky experiment. But the sky over Colorado has not fallen, and prohibition has proved to be a complete failure. It’s time to bring the marijuana market out into the open and end the injustice of arrests and convictions that have devastated communities.

    What’s next? The Chicago Cubs winning the World Series?

    • allan says:


      When I worked security at shows I always appreciated the big boys among us. Knowing I have adequate back-up gives an oh-so-special feeling. That was kinda the feeling I got when LEAP arrived on the scene. Having the NYT on this side of the table is a pretty good add to our list of “friends” too.

      The din from falling rubble is getting damn near cacophonous. Hard hats, safety vests and now ear protection! See what swingin’ them hammers gets us? Shit falling over everywhere.

  12. allan says:

    media question… does the NYT usually/often/ever come out advocating votes on state’s issues, in other states besides NY?

  13. primus says:

    media question 2…does the NYT usually/often/never come out advocating for a position which has already been decided?

  14. jean valjean says:

    we ve had project sam(e).. now i suppose we’ll have project sham or project scam.

  15. Dsmu99 says:

    Hey You guys Russ is on Twitter pulling the Covers off the opposition in Oregon.. Check out one of the tweets!!

    ODAA List: 8/12 No on 91 Args by Mandi Puckett. “[Sheriffs] paid for virtually all these” at $1200 a pop @VoteYeson91

    This link here details the lengths they are going to..

  16. Nunavut Tripper says:

    OT: Corporal Ron Francis ,the controversial medical cannabis using RCMP officer found dead.

    The article is vague as to the cause of death. Suicide or misadventure ???

  17. Freeman says:

    OT: (K)lie-man just wrote his first drug policy related post in probably a month or more. Pretty much what we’ve come to expect from the guy — hyperbolic mischaracterization of his opponent’s arguments (a regulatory utopia and a magic wand called “regulation” that we could wave at the problem to bring it under control), raising the spectre of alcohol abuse to argue against responsible regulation of other drugs (We always have the bad example of alcohol – which causes more violence, more health damage, and more addiction than all the illicit drugs combined – staring down at us), and trying to sound “fair and balanced”, but in the process contradicting his other policy recommendations: (Why should we allow the outdated concepts … assuming that the answer to illicit markets is always more and more law enforcement – to continue to dominate our thinking?)

    I guess he forgot that he told the WA liquor control board that they needed to step up law enforcement in order to support a legal commercial marijuana market (which, of course, would only seem necessary because he recommends holding the price to black-market levels — or higher — instead of allowing the market to set it’s own price, undermining the black market naturally).

    And I guess he forgot that, while legal and responsible alcohol regulation may not be “utopia”, it’s one hell of an improvement over our short-lived and obviously-failed policy of Prohibition in terms of reducing “violence, health damage, and addiction” related to alcohol marketing and consumption, and virtually everyone (except, apparently, Dr. silent K) understands that.

    • Pete says:

      That’s a pretty hilarious post by Mark. The contortions that he puts himself in just so he can do his usual job of painting both sides as wrong-headed are ridiculous.

      • Freeman says:

        Yeah, I had to giggle a bit. Coherent argument doesn’t seem to be his strong point. Everybody’s just obviously wrong except Mark A(lways) R(ight) Kleiman, and we commoners should trust him at his word that he’s the elite expert he says he is, and ignore his inconsistencies, listen for our own dog-whistle, and disregard the rest, just like the bureaucrats do when he whispers what they want to hear into their ears.

        But he perceives that it works for him, obviously. He wears his dissent from all sides as a badge of honor that “proves him right” (except now he no longer wants to actually SEE any of that dissent show up on his blog), and brags of the influence he has over elected officials who decide drug policy (except now he’s worried that dissent showing up in comments on his blog posted by those nasty, evil, uncivil, *shudder* libertarian legalizers might somehow dilute that influence).

        Funny thing is, Sebat is just about the only one visibly influenced enough to continue parroting his talking points these days. He may have made a bundle in consulting fees from Washington State, but I get the feeling it’s turning out to be a net loss in the long run.

    • strayan says:

      lol one comment and its author is one of the other bloggers on that site.

      • Freeman says:

        Yeah, that’s pretty typical since the Reverberation-Based-Community conversion. Most of the folks who used to comment there regularly haven’t been seen since. I’ve managed to get one comment through (on a Keith Harrumphreys post, no less, who seldom allows comments at all), and I was the only one to comment on that post (I guess he passed it through just so he’d at least have one comment). Now it’s mostly just echo-chamber cross-talk between the bloggers.

  18. jean valjean says:

    there was a post here at dwr a month or so back with video of ondcp boss botticelli role playing mayor of a city. when asked how a concerned citizen could “help out ” with the anti legalization cause he said contact hidta. now we know he meant “send us money”. sorry no link.

  19. Howard says:

    Guess what? Among other things, Kevin says he is ‘misunderstood’ by us legalizers. Seriously.

    An interview with The Oregonian;

    Marijuana legalization opponent Kevin Sabet tells Keizer crowd about pot’s potency and harms to young people

    • Duncan2003 says:


      I think that may be the first thing I’ve heard him say that is true. I certainly don’t understand how Kev-Kev “thinks.” If you do I might appreciate if you ‘splain it to me, at least if you can do so in less than a full day using no complicated audio and visual aids.

      Heck, I don’t even understand why he “thinks.”

    • kaptinemo says:

      (Sputtering laughter) Oh, he thinks we ‘misunderstand’ him, that we ‘mis-characterize’ him?

      On the contrary, I believe that we have more than adequately described him and his message.

      Now more than ever, Kevvie reminds me of Billy Joel’s ‘Angry Young Man’...the kind that never grows tired of imposing his own self-righteous beliefs upon others. The kind CS Lewis warned us about:

      “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

      Oh, we know Kevvie and all his kind; oh yes, we do. The pages of History are penned in the blood of their victims, whom they tried to ‘save’, of course…

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