Odds and Ends

bullet image FWIW… Mark Kleiman, pot’s go-to guy – In the Los Angeles Times

bullet image Drug Defendants Are Being ‘Forced’ To Plead Guilty, Report Claims

This is one of those really scary parts about the loss of justice due to the drug war that we’ve been talking about for some time.

Only 3 percent of U.S. drug defendants in federal cases chose to go to trial instead of pleading guilty in 2012, according to a new report from Human Rights Watch. […]

The effect, she argues, is that prosecutors essentially “force” defendants to plead guilty. […]

And the majority of those who did go to trial — 89 percent of them — lost. […]

“Justice would almost stand still if we took the majority of our cases to trial,” he said.

Make no mistake about it. The innocent get swept up with the ‘guilty.’ This is not a ‘justice’ system.

bullet image. Happy repeal day! 80 years ago today, the 21st Amendment was ratified.

bullet image NYPD Arrests Man For Possession of Breath Mints

Arrested, handcuffed and held for 30 hours.

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41 Responses to Odds and Ends

  1. Malc says:

    Make no mistake, Mark Kleiman is a typical parasitic-gravy-trainer who has spent his whole life leeching off the government (our) purse. Do not expect him to do anything to derail his own gravy train!

    “Kleiman is a tee-totaler sado-moralist who believes intoxication is a disease.” —Allan Erickson, The Media Awareness Project

    “D.A.R.E. is a wonderful tool for police-community relations, particularly, in poor neighborhoods. Getting poor kids to meet a police officer, and getting a police officer to meet poor kids, on a civil, friendly basis, is a wonderful thing to do. Police officers love it, and police departments love it, and neighborhoods love it, and kids love it and parents love it and everybody loves it.” —Mark Kleiman 1997

    “I’ve been going around the country trying to convince people that knowing the unsatisfactory results of marijuana prohibition doesn’t prove that any specific implementation of legal marijuana will turn out to be an improvement.” —Mark Kleiman, 2013

    “I’ve been going around the country trying to convince people that knowing the unsatisfactory results of alcohol prohibition doesn’t prove that any specific implementation of legal alcohol will turn out to be an improvement.” —Mark Kleiman’s grandfather, 1933

  2. Howard says:

    From the LA Times Kleiman interview;

    [LAT] Is someone in the bowels of the DEA trying to figure this out?

    [Kleiman] Nope. Somewhere in the bowels of the DEA, someone is desperately hoping this doesn’t work. They hate this like poison. Their general view is, no, it’ll be a disaster, then people will react against it and we’ll go back to prohibition.


    I wish Mr. Kleiman had provided a DEA source for “Their general view is, no, it’ll be a disaster, then people will react against it and we’ll go back to prohibition.”

    I suspect just the opposite, that the DEA’s biggest fear is that the end of cannabis prohibition WON’T be a disaster. Thus, calling into question a large chunk of the DEA’s purpose all along. Any bureaucracies’ biggest concern is shrinking in size and relevancy. I’m guessing this is what scares the DEA’s prohibition parasites the most.

    Hey! Am I a social policy expert now? The criteria seems to be pretty low…

    • primus says:

      That is what Kleiman said; they are ‘desperately hoping this doesn’t work’. Their ‘general view’ is that legalizing won’t work, mainly because they have drunk the kool-aide for so long that they can’t conceive of any other outcome.

      • N.T. Greene says:

        Woah, woah, I’m sure when it works they’ll claim it was all their idea the whole time

        • Duncan20903 says:


          Indeed, we’ll never get the credit. The official line will be that it was done in spite of us. E.g. the fact that Epidiolex® wasn’t trademarked until July 2013 and so quickly authorized into the Orphan Drug Program and available to children with Dravet’s syndrome in a Compassionate IND protocol isn’t going to go into the history books as a stunning victory for the advocates of whole plant cannabinoid medicine. It doesn’t matter that they wouldn’t have figured it out without the work of medicinal cannabis producers. Anyone just playing for the glory may as well quit now.

          Do I sound bitter? At least that means that I’m not guilty of false advertising because I am bitter. But I’ll get over it in due time. My plan is just to keep my eyes on the prize. In the long run I really don’t care why it happens. It seems that in the last year the frequency of foaming at the mouth (former?) prohibitionists expressing the sentiment in the post I’ve quoted below has become commonplace almost to the point of ubiquity. They’re still foaming at the mouth idiots and I’m not likely going to invite them over for dinner absent significant coercion. But all that really matters to me is that if I disregard the hysterical chest beating that I can easily see that this particular subset of prohibitionists have capitulated and are now sitting on our side of the table. The only thing that puzzles me is how they managed to end up sitting next to me without my noticing. This one is from the “inch by inch…step by step…” category:

          Politicians Suck at 12:31 PM December 6, 2013

          Good they should make it legal, let the taxpayers decide the war on drugs is a total joke that has cost all of us 100s of billions of dollars over the last 50 years and the only people making money on it are the druglords and gangs, tax the hell out of it, stop all the killings, take the profit out of it and nobody will smuggle it anymore, we can empty our jails and make room for the perverts and child molesters and violent crimmals, education is the answer, teach our kids that dope is not the answer…No I don’t drink or do drugs and I’m damm tired of paying for the people that do, if your that stupid to do drugs you deserve the loser life that comes with it…

        • Crut says:

          Spot on Duncan.

          The idiots will still unfortunately survive this round of cleansing their ignorance. Like splashing bleach on a old grimy shirt. Some will embrace the new clean knowledge, but others will run screaming back to their closet looking for their next disgusting frock.

          That was weird…

  3. NorCalNative says:

    In the article Pete links to regarding Mark Kleiman, he refers to “straight-out legalizers” like they’re some freaky band of anarchists out to destroy his good work.

    Count me IN!

  4. Servetus says:

    He’s not just your local medical marijuana dispensary director, he’s your new mayor.

    The city of Sebastopol, CA, elects Robert Jacob mayor for a year. He’s been on the City Council for two years. Will the DEA raid his dispensary now?


    • Jean Valjean says:

      “I once tried to make a list of the disciplines you would have to know to make good drug policy, and I stopped at 25. Medicine, psychology, pharmacology, law, international law, social psychology — there was no way people writing an initiative would have gone through the full analysis.”

      I’m sure this is the same conman bs he pulled when he presented his bill to the state of washington. Market forces and government regulation seem to do a passable job with alcohol.

      • Freeman says:

        I’m sure this is the same conman bs he pulled when he presented his bill to the state of washington.

        Yup. Claim that it’s oh so complicated that it requires massively multidisciplinary expertise to address, and you can justify a whole lotta billable hours.

        Market forces and government regulation seem to do a passable job with alcohol.

        Agreed. But not if you ask Kleiman. He thinks alcohol regulation is horrifyingly inadequate, advertising should be banned, taxes need to be at least quadrupled, and that adults who drink should be required to buy an alcohol license which he would revoke for alcohol-related infractions while forcing the offender into a 24/7 sobriety program.

        But whaddya expect from a guy apparently so terrified of drug dependency that he doesn’t even imbibe in caffeine; asks for hot chocolate when offered coffee. From that point of view, the field of “straight-out legalizers” is pretty damn broad.

        Buzzkill, indeed.

    • pete Bulkner says:

      So they elected a drug kingpin to be mayor. To hell with that whole town.Looks like the DOJ needs to nuke them. Their gonna cause drug addiction & child molestation to skyrocket and profit off of it.That is morally & ethically wrong on so many levels. Thanks for hiring that piece of shit, I guess that’s were all the child molesters are gonna move to since he’s gonna also lower the age of concent to birth.that way a homosexual can potty train a two year old by sticking their undeveloped genitals in their mouths to syphon their urine and fecal matter. Swishing it around like mouthwash for 45 seconds to 4 minutes to savor it like fine wine or whiskey before spitting it out into the toilet(or swallow it)then informing the little rascal that’s how “normal people” go potty. That shit is disgusting and its root cause comes From marijuana. Which they forcefully inject into the Childs anus cavity to pacify them in order for them to rape the poor child. That shits messed up,but its what CJ dreams of cause he’s a registered child sexual predator. Fucking burn that town to the ground.They choosen to side with drug cartels and terrorism,they are unamerican and dispise freedom.give real Americans the freedom of choice back! Stop forcing drugs in our faces,schools,libraries,churches,homes,parks!! One way to deter illegal drug use is by setting a federal drug free zone that covers the whole country that gives law enforcement the discression of execution with any minor assumption they have that someone maybe involved or non directly involved with marijuana.And make that law have law enforcent immune from any liability for any unlikely mistake that the officer involved may have committed,because that’s a small sacrifice we should all indure and proudly cheer that one less person who had something to do with drugs weather it be possession/sale/use/influence/or even thought of trying is dead and can no longer harm a child. Marijuana users are all sexual predators who make Albert Fish look like Dora the explorer,whom they probably maturbate to while high. Please think of the children and the horrific message this sends them. Thank you and may Jesus spite you for assuming this is okay.

  5. Francis says:

    “Justice would almost stand still if we took the majority of our cases to trial,” he said.

    No, justice would finally get a hearing. Justice stands still when the vast majority of those accused of crimes are effectively denied their right to a trial by the inherently-coercive practice of plea bargaining — and when innocent people are prosecuted simply for exercising the basic human right to make decisions regarding their own body and consciousness.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      So does anyone have any constructive suggestions for reviving the concept that defendants won’t be punished for pleading not guilty? Perhaps it was just jingoism but when I was a wee lad I was taught that was a basic precept of criminal law in the United States. But absent that, nothing is going to change. When you’re charged with a crime you stand alone. People who have never had the experience likely don’t understand just how alone a person can be.

      Taking it to a jury may be an honorable thing to do for your society and your fellows, but at the end of the trial all of those people go home while the person convicted goes to the gray bar hotel. There really aren’t very many Nelson Mandela’s in the world, nor should anyone expect people to follow his example. Well you can expect it all you like but you’re almost certainly going to be disappointed.

      • 1- End marijuana prohibition at the Fed level. Take it out of the CSA and the hands of the DEA and the rest of the Federal minions and agencies.

        2- stop plea bargaining entirely. Restore the ability of a defendant to defend himself and claim innocence until proven guilty. Plea bargaining wasn’t always this way. It was no improvement in justice.

        3- end the rest of the war on drugs.

        4- Now, there will be no backlogs in Federal Court

  6. DdC says:

    Drug Defendants Are Being ‘Forced’ To Plead Guilty, Report Claims

    Old formula to ward off justice.
    To deter jury trials the NRA bought and paid for mandatory minimums are given to persecutors as tools, you know to save the kidlets from messages. For the crime of wasting the courts time defendants are given MM if found guilty. Which in this Cardassian Ministry of Justice (startrek) just us system. (guilty til proven innocent) is most who try. To keep the jury from actually hearing evidence, evidence is blocked. There is no medical marijuana, ask the controlled substance act. Says right there, Nope. So the judge tells the schmuck, you can’t use that as a defense and the jury can’t hear it or they might sympathize and treat you like a patient or get all sentimental and emotional and not rid us of drug traffickers. Doesn’t matter if you have a note from your doctor or mommy. Doesn’t matter if it does provide medicinal relief, it is not medicine. Again ask the CSA. Still Nope.

    Basically that is the defense they allow. Drug trafficker. So with the gag order keeping the jury ignorant and the risk of mandatory mins if guilty it is no wonder most choose the more profitable plea bargain. Including califono rehabilitation asylums $4500. Random Piss quizzes. $50, probation fees, ankle bracelet monitoring and court cost. Priceless. So yes the innocent get swept up with the drug cartels. Prison rape is still a deterrent used as the slogan warns, can’t do the time, don’t do the crime. Job loss, school expulsion and now an X con to go on your resume. To get the job that has been outsourced and the reason for selling pot in the first place. Koch is lobbying for maximum capacity private for profit prisons in all 50 states. Less tax for government prisons and more profits for getting caught making a smarter choice using the less dangerous less toxic substances. Everything is a perception and how it looks to the neilson families so they can rate us drug free, someday. Some restrictions apply every 20 minutes on TV, Oh but they aren’t being forced, they have a choice, insert insane person laugh here.. repeat…

    ‘Relax Your Muscles as Much as Possible’

    NRA History of Mandatory Minimums

    ALEC, the Koch Brothers Led CABAL

    Happy repeal day! 80 years ago today, the 21st Amendment was ratified.

    That’s 80 years since Rockefeller banned farmers from making their own ethanol and still as prohibited. Same as when they removed cannabis in 1937. Al Capone and Watergate

    J.D. Tuccille ‏@JD_Tuccille
    Ohio highway cops searched a car because the driver was “overly polite.” Oh yes, they did. Maybe but i think he may have Clenched his buttocks too.

    • Freeman says:

      Ohio highway cops searched a car because the driver was “overly polite.” Oh yes, they did.

      Similar thing happened to me in Payola, Kansas (real place). Out on my bike first warm sunny day of spring and I was happily blasting down a country highway, popped over a hill, and encountered a county mountie coming the other way. I knew I was busted for speeding so I just pulled over, took off my helmet, and waited for him. He u-eed and came flying back over the hill nearly airborne and almost couldn’t slow down quickly enough to pull over behind me. He asked if I’d been drinking (no), gave me a field sobriety test (which I had no trouble with), then arrested me for suspicion of DUI anyway because I was “too happy to be pulled over”.

      No, dumbshit, I was happy to be riding again after a long winter. I was single and had a high-tech job so the prospect of a high fine for 93 in a 55 did nothing to sour my mood. What did was seeing my bike hanging from a strap behind a tow truck and having to post bond because Miami County Kansas couldn’t afford a breathalyzer and had to have me blow into a balloon and send it off to a lab, having to call my uncle for a ride home because the tow lot was closed, and having a dead battery (they turned my headlights on and left it that way overnight) and a scratched-up bike when I went back for it the next day.

      I wrote a letter to the Payola Chamber of Commerce explaining how I used to love the beautiful ride out to Payola for a tasty country homestyle dinner, and why I wouldn’t be doing that any more. That was over 30 years ago and I haven’t set foot in Miami County since.

  7. The purpose of plea bargaining was to shove people through the courts faster. They claimed they were being overwhelmed and cases were backed up too far.

    Assembly line justice was pushed as a solution and so was born “plea bargaining”.

    No one seems to want to revisit this decision to look at why this backup was occurring and how this has affected “justice” since then.

  8. Francis says:

    “I once tried to make a list of the disciplines you would have to know to make good drug policy, and I stopped at 25. Medicine, psychology, pharmacology, law, international law, social psychology — there was no way people writing an initiative would have gone through the full analysis.” — Mark Kleiman

    I’d say there’s really only one discipline you need to have mastered to make good drug policy: humility. And if I had to add a second? History.

    • Windy says:

      I would have said “common sense and an understanding of unalienable rights is all that is needed to make good drug policy”.

  9. DdC says:

    Nelson Mandela Requiescat In Pace

    President Obama speaks on Nelson Mandela’s passing http://bit.ly/1jroFag

    Rolling Stone ‏@RollingStone
    Nelson Mandela has died at 95: http://rol.st/18our4Z

    Bill Maher ‏@billmaher
    Mandella’s passing reminds me: Politicians shld never have say in who stays in prison,under any system;parole decisions based on asscovering

    Tauriq Moosa ‏@tauriqmoosa
    It’s precisely that he was so great, yet a fallible human, that matters – not that he was a superhero or god. Worst thing we could do for someone who was so brilliant in his capacity as a human is to view him as infallible, perfect & godlike.

    Dennis Kucinich ‏@Dennis_Kucinich
    May God bless Nelson Mandela’s great soul.

    Dan Gardner ‏@dgardner
    Nelson Mandela was always impressive but when he took power and used it for reconciliation he became a truly great man.

    Democracy Now! ‏@democracynow
    On His 95th Birthday, the Story of Nelson Mandela’s Struggle Told Outside His Old Soweto Home (From Archive) http://owl.li/ruTma

  10. claygooding says:

    PS:I wouldn’t allow Mark K to be the “go to guy” for empty toilet paper rolls for emergency bongs.

  11. DdC says:

    The Dirty Truth Behind Colorado’s Legal Weed Growhouses http://bit.ly/1eWutG4 (via @Motherboard)

    ALEC Plots Extensive Campaign Against Environmental Regulation, Clean Energy http://owl.li/ruRM0
    Daily Kos ‏@dailykos 1h

    Sen. Ted Cruz to embattled group ALEC: ‘Stand your ground’ http://bit.ly/1bkFDDV

    Report: Threat Of Mandatory Minimums Used To Coerce Guilty Pleas
    A new report says the Justice Department regularly coerces defendants in federal drug cases to plead guilty by threatening them with steep prison sentences or stacking charges to increase their time behind bars.

    Call White House comment line 202-456-1111

  12. allan says:

    I try not to read Mark’s stuff but I did…

    Law enforcement doesn’t get money [specifically] to arrest burglars; they arrest burglars because it’s part of their job.

    Indeed Mark. But they do do get money to chase us. And were that money instead spent on chasing burglars (as well as thugs and other felonious and violent miscreants) we might actually have effective policing in some our currently under served communities.

  13. DdC says:

    Mark Kleiman, pot’s go-to guy – In the Los Angeles Times

    …and if I ever need a good flower pot, stew pot or piss pot. I’ll be sure to look him up…

  14. curmudgeon says:

    If Mark is the go-to guy, does that mean we get to tell him where to go to?

  15. mr Ikasheeni says:

    Is it Mr K behind the poisonous anecdotes concerning gynecomastia
    appearing in the media? It has been 40 years; wheres the crisis? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/05/marijuana-man-boobs_n_4392617.html?ref=topbar

    • Servetus says:

      Spreading medical hoaxes? And perhaps a bit too inclined to use the knife? Somebody needs to yank Dr. Anthony Youn’s license to practice medicine.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      Does anyone else think that if cannabis will grow teats on men, then shouldn’t it also make women’s teats larger? After all, what is sauce for the gander is also sauce for the goose. But the prohibitionists should be careful. I understand that there are lots and lots of young women who want bigger boobs. (We must, we must, we must increase our bust!)

      Are we now going to have to answer prohibitionists saying that cannabis causes breast cancer in men? It’s just very rare but men do get breast cancer. Doesn’t it stand to reason that the bigger your teats, the more chance of getting breast cancer? Well even if that is, as I expect, just plain silly the prohibitches have never been shy about asserting the just plain silly as if it were true.

      • claygooding says:

        If we can get them to say it causes hair to grow,,according the the last pic I saw of a group of legislators,,it would be legal next week.

    • Freeman says:

      Earlier this month, Dr. Adrian Lo, a plastic surgeon at Pennsylvania Hospital who specializes in breast reduction for men, told Philly.com that about a third of his patients are regular marijuana users.

      Therefore, ipso-facto, two-thirds of his patients don’t smoke weed regularly. His statistics seem to show that you’re twice as likely to become his patient if you don’t poke smot!

  16. Duncan20903 says:


    Let’s not forget that Prof Kleiman is a trail blazer, the first of a new category of prohibitionist, the “faux legalizer.”

    But gee whiz Wally, how many “Prof Kleiman is the ‘go to guy'” articles did the LA Times publish yesterday? I thought that I had a post deleted but it was just under another, very similar article.

    Coming soon: A preview of a new, legal marijuana landscape in the U.S.

    Mark Kleiman is a UCLA public professor and a go-to guy when it comes to drug policy analysis; it’s a field he’s studied for years, including the consequences and mechanics of the pendulum swings of criminalizing and legalizing marijuana.

    Lately, the goalposts — at least from the point of view of the legal marijuana lobby — have moved, and Kleiman consulted with Washington state’s liquor control board about the rules of the road for the state’s Jan. 1 legal marijuana market.

    Duncan20903 at 5:29 PM December 5, 2013

    It’s just amazing how the utterly clueless Prof Kleiman has scammed so many people into believing he’s an “expert” in the cannabis markets when he has never so much as purchased a nickle bag. The man is a self serving buffoon of a professional confidence artist. He’s even managed to scam the taxpayers of the State of Washington out of almost a $million for his worthless advice. The man should be a laughing stock because of his clueless perceptions of the cannabis market. A classic case of the blind leading the blind. There’s no doubt that the legal market for cannabis in [the State of] Washington is going to be completely dysfunctional because of taking his advice, but at least Prof Kleiman got to laugh all the way to the bank.

  17. DdC says:

    If the mountain will not come to Mahomet,
    Mahomet must go to the mountain. …

    Families See Colorado as New Frontier on Marijuana
    Source: New York Times By Jack Healy December 06, 2013

    Fountain, Colo. — As their children cooed from wheelchairs and rocked softly in their arms, the marijuana migrants of Colorado clasped hands, bowed their heads and said a prayer of cautious thanks.

    They thanked God for the dinner of roast turkey and mashed potatoes, for their children and for the marijuana-based serum that has drawn 100 families to Colorado on a desperate pilgrimage to quell the squalls of seizures inside their children’s heads. They have come from Florida and Virginia, South Carolina and New York, lining up to treat their children with a promising but largely untested oil that is considered legal medicine in this cannabis-friendly state. Read More…

    Ganjay Supta.

    Marijuana Stops Child’s Severe Seizures

    N.J.’s Youngest MMJ Patient Gets Her Turn

  18. The LEGOLAND Florida amusement park located in Winter Haven, FL will be adding an official LEGOLAND Florida Hotel comparable to the one in California but with 5 floors and with 150 rooms in 2015.

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