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The Reefer Madness That Just Won’t Die

It’s no surprise that marijuana became a player in the #Ferguson controversies. Michael Brown’s use of cannabis was a major part of the grand jury discussions, essentially playing the part of explaining the need to shoot 12 times to stop a marijuana-crazed black man.

BBC: Ferguson: Did prosecutors focus unduly on marijuana?

“There’s actually no reason to believe, based on the available research and the scientific understanding of pot, that marijuana would actually make someone more violent,” Lopez writes.

“This makes sense to anyone with even a vague notion of marijuana’s effects. Pot is most popularly known as a sedative that relaxes users. One of the prominent arguments against its use, in fact, is that it makes users so sedated that they’re lazy and, as a result, unproductive.”

When word of the positive blood test first was leaked in October, however, some marijuana critics were quick to call attention to the drug.

“Brown’s death … should serve as a tragic reminder that marijuana is not harmless, that it is not just like alcohol,” Christian Thurstone, an addictions psychologist, wrote in his blog (in a post that has since been deleted), “that its consumption often leads to impairment that is very difficult for the public to measure – also making it tough for the public to hold users accountable for the harm they’ve caused others. Marijuana users also could be vulnerable to aggression and attacks while under the drug’s influence.”

For extra fun reading, check out our old pal Cliff Kinkaid, who has weighed in on the subject: Marijuana Figures Big in Ferguson Meltdown

Reporters like to laugh about the old “reefer madness” film depicting crazy conduct resulting from marijuana use. It’s not so funny anymore.

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80 comments to The Reefer Madness That Just Won’t Die

  • Howard

    Cliff Kinkaid is so concerned with “accuracy in media” that he includes this quote from DeForest Rathbone, Chairman of the National Institute of Citizen Anti-Drug Policy (NICAP);

    “If it weren’t for the mainstream media’s reverence for the ‘sacred cow’ of marijuana, they would see the valid scientific studies showing that pot is currently being produced in varying strengths from a mildly intoxicating 2% THC up to school-shooter-psychosis-inducing 40% to 70% THC . And that early childhood use of pot is a major cause of psychosis and violent behavior…which could be the ‘unknown motive’ frequently cited in news articles on the Ferguson affair.”[emphasis added]

    —————————

    “…school-shooter-psychosis-inducing 40% to 70% THC…”

    “…pot is a major cause of psychosis and violent behavior…”

    —————————

    Yeah, Cliff, thanks for providing accuracy in media. Get ready to pick up that Pulitzer Prize any day now.

    • Crut

      The disproportionate outrage by biased and selectively informed fear-mongers like ol’ Cliff, and DeForest Rathbone here are nothing but hot air. If they were confronted with a thousand peaceful cannabis consumers, they would look for and seek out the one or two that fit their preconceived notions of degenerate pot-heads. Missing the forest for the trees comes to mind.

  • Frank W.

    Create a third world poverty pit, keep those police guns blazin, and the ruling class will have an American Trenchtown Dungle to point at and say “this is why those violent pot-addicts need to be Kept Down.” Almost like it was planned or something.

  • darkcycle

    It’s the “Crazy Uncles of Prohibition” fest today. For more reefer madness, Here’s old Cully Stimson weighing in: http://dailysignal.com/2014/11/30/why-legalizing-pot-is-a-bad-idea/?fb_action_ids=724150094346877&fb_action_types=og.comments

  • darkcycle

    Wow. Today they are coming out of the woodwork. This time an addiction industry rep weighs in: http://registerguard.com/rg/life/healthandfitness/32445855-71/legal-marijuana-may-have-unintended-consequences.html.csp

  • Servetus

    Ye olde Puritan guard will continue to use marijuana mythology as a political football until the football is too flat from loss of air to kick it around anymore.

    Social equality means certain death to culture wars, and to the drug war as well. With no one else to feel or act superior to, the surrender of power by a perceived elite produces a reactionary response to regain what was lost. Their ongoing crusade is expected to preserve a stratified culture so that total zeroes such as Kincaid can retain their self-assigned lofty place in the world of shock jocks. In a nation that truly embraces liberty and justice for all, Cliff Kincaid and his klan would be rendered obsolete.

    Political power is supported by illusions, smoke and mirrors. The idea that Kincaid is superior to, or less violent than those who consume cannabis, is an outright absurdity, but it’s an absurdity he expects everyone to believe. What flaunting the drug laws has proven is that all it takes to counter abuse of power is to refuse to support it. Kincaid can rant about drugs until he turns blue from oxygen deprivation, but he can’t change what marijuana consumers know to be true from their own experiences.

  • Common Science

    My poor nephew was devastated being told he just didn’t have the killer instinct to play defence on his school’s hockey team a couple of months ago. I’m tempted to encourage our young man to performance-enhance with a little of that ‘School-Shooter’ bud for hockey try-outs next year. I assume it’s a sativa, related to that conspicuous energetic “Face-Eater’ strain. Anyone have Cliff Kincaid’s number?

  • claygooding

    They are ranting that the 12 nanograms found in Michael’s blood MAY have caused his violence which resulted in his death,,,heavy tokers and medical marijuana users wake the fuck up with more than that in their blood after sleeping for 8 hrs since their last dose.

    How do you say out of one side of your mouth that marijuana turns people into couch potatoes and lazy and out the other it causes violent insane actions,,it sounded more like Michael lost his cool over being profiled than inebriated or stoned.

  • DdC

    Thought this was posted…

    Grand jury testimony suggested marijuana made Michael Brown violent.
    That’s unlikely.
    http://www.vox.com/michael-brown-shooting-ferguson-mo/2014/8/18/6031331/michael-brown-ferguson-marijuana/in/7041840

    So What If Michael Brown Had Marijuana In His System When He Was Killed?
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/18/michael-brown-marijuana-toxicology_n_5688788.html

    Did Marijuana Kill Michael Brown?
    Jacob Sullum|Nov. 25, 2014
    http://reason.com/blog/2014/11/25/did-marijuana-kill-michael-brown

    I have never seen a situation so dismal
    that a policeman couldn’t make it worse.
    — Brendan Behan (1923-1964)

    Daily marijuana users have been known to register 12 nanograms or more when they get up in the morning, and they may even perform competently on driving tests at that level.

    Scientist: Trayvon Martin’s Marijuana Use Had Nothing to Do with the Night He Died http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/sreply/641
    Mr. Martin could not have been intoxicated with marijuana at the time of the shooting; the amount of THC found in his system was too low for it to have had any meaningful effect on him. In fact, his THC levels were significantly lower than the sober, baseline levels of about 14 nanograms per milliliter of many of my patients, who are daily users.

    NFL’s Buzzkill
    http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/1672
    Following a string of violent incidents – including a pair of stabbings – between rowdy football fans during the team’s previous games, Giants Stadium officials made the bold move to halt sales of the intoxicant. The rationale for the ban? Jets spokesman Ron Colangelo could not have been more blunt: “It’s for the safety of our fans.”

    Alcohol’s long-standing association with aggressive behavior, whether it’s among raucous sports fans or late-night bar patrons, is well-publicized and much debated. Yet, a relevant fact that is often overlooked in this public discourse is that an alternative, almost equally consumed intoxicant, is rarely, if ever, linked with violence – – marijuana. However, unlike alcohol, marijuana is illegal and not only at Giants Stadium.

    ☛ Cannabis Helps Keep Fans Calm
    Police also claimed that the availability of cannabis in the Netherlands probably helped to defuse any violence. Scores of ticketless England fans gathered in coffee shops in Eindhoven, where cannabis is sold and smoked, to watch the game, greeting the defeat with mild disappointment and unusually, gentle applause. “It (cannabis) may have helped relax them,” Mr Beelan added. “Even the hooligans enjoyed the party – and they told our officers. There were lots of things for fans to do and everybody had a good time.”
    ☛ Fans Too Relaxed for Fights
    ☛ Basketball Riots in L.A., Soccer Thugs in Europe
    ☛ Euro 2000 Soccer Violence Could Vanish in a Puff
    ☛ Aggression and Violence in Sport

    Where do they get such notions that Ganja causes violence to an extent Cops can justify just about anything to defend themselves. …

    HARRY ANSLINGER’S GORE FILE
    http://reefermadnessmuseum.org/chap10/Gore.htm
    It has now been well documented that starting in 1932 the Federal Government took part in (as well as helped orchestrate) a mass hysteria campaign against the Medical Marihuana plant. Calling it “The Assassin of Youth,” and claiming that its use was turning normally sane young men into hideous criminal beasts, sex fiends; the worst kind of cold blooded murderers etc.

    Marijuana – The First Twelve Thousand Years Ernest L. Abel
    The complete history of the cannabis plant and it’s relationship with mankind
    http://www.ukcia.org/research/abel/index.php
    Curiously, the Arabs themselves have never regarded hashish as a drug which inspires violence. … Yet in America, a country with a history of violence and little familiarity with cannabis as a mind-altering substance, hashish was to become known as the “killer drug”.

    Myth : The word assassin is derived from the word hashish.
    https://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info4.shtml
    It is from this story that the connection between the words assassin and hashish is drawn. It is said that the word assassin comes from the Arabic word haschishin for hashish user. But Hassan and his followers didn’t speak Arabic; they were Persians. Assassin comes from Hassassin — a follower of Hassan.

    Hassan, in fact, was a hashish prohibitionist. He argued that the Koran’s ban on alcohol was a ban on all intoxicants, so his assassins were drug free terrorists. Except in the false Paradise where they were served wine as one of the joys of heaven. So, it is desire for alcohol not hashish that helped motivate the Assassins.

    Narcotics police are an enormous, corrupt international bureaucracy … and now fund a coterie of researchers who provide them with ‘scientific support’ … fanatics who distort the legitimate research of others.”
    ~ William F. Buckley, Jr. Requiescat In Pace
    Commentary in The National Review, April 29, 1983, p. 495

  • Head Room

    Woulda put some Coins in Yer Pocket today, Bigbro. Too bad Ya took it upon yerselves to Shaft us couple of decades ago. No Cookie for You. Ever. Leadership VaaccuuM. Send Pressed.

  • Duncan20903

    .
    .

    Now I’m mad at myself for not anticipating that Cliff would be excited about Mr. Brown’s demise as evidence that Mr. Kincaid isn’t cuckoo clock crazy. Surely the officer has saved an uncertain number of school children from certain death by a cannabis addled psycho killer!

    Shh, let’s not tell Mr. K that finding a fairly wide selection of cannabinoids in a person’s biologicals is about as shocking as finding eggs in a person’s refrigerator.

    • Duncan20903

      .
      .

      BTW, did anyone link the very recently released theater of the absurd “scientific” study which demonstrated that 88% of the cannabis consumed had been recently purchased by the cannabis’ consumer?

      • Crut

        I recently purchased gasoline for my car, and then my car immediately consumed it. CRAZY correlation there man…

      • claygooding

        How do we find the 12% they don’t know what happened too?

        Prolly narcotic officers personal stash.

      • Duncan20903

        .
        .

        Well my lawnmower gas was purchased back in April and there’s still as much as 2 liters left in the gas can.

        Jonathon Caulkins/shallow end of the gene pool alert:
        Statistics on cannabis users skew perceptions of cannabis use

        /snip/
        As we report below, from that perspective 88% of marijuana is consumed by someone who most recently obtained marijuana by purchasing it (as opposed to sharing or receiving it as a gift).
        /snip/

  • kaptinemo

    “…not all the nuts are in the trees, not all the loons are in the lake…”

    What was that old saw about “Those that the gods would destroy they first make mad?”

    We called it here, didn’t we? The more they lose, the crazier they’ll get. And, just like clockwork, we win in several States and DC, and we are treated to their latest madness trotted out for all to see, oblivious of how it appears to anyone sane: the original racist stereotype used to ‘justify’ cannabis prohibition to begin with – the muggles-addled darkie who thinks he’s as good as a White man – dressed up in a 21st-century hoodie. It’s that freakin’ blatant.

    (Facepalm) Can’t they see at all how this looks to the public-at-large, the one that is reflecting the change in the electorate’s attitude towards cannabis and its prohibition? The prohibs are literally running off of scripts written 20 years ago.

    Look at that page and the DEA’s ‘debate manuals’ and realize they’ve only made slight modifications to their rhetoric in the past two decades. And now, they’ve truly ‘scraped the bottom’ of a slime-mucked barrel, to pull this racist dog-whistle crap.

    They’ve been ‘running on fumes’ intellectually these past 20 years, and have now demonstrated just how low-quality those fumes are with this ‘electronic lynching’ of an already-dead kid. And you have to ask: how much of this PR onslaught is paid for with our tax dollars?

    • Duncan20903

      .
      .

      At the Turkey Day festival of gluttony dinner table the family forced us to endure hearing everyone’s reason for being grateful. I was very tempted to say that mine was the prohibitionists’ utter stupidity coupled with their pathological inability to adapt their tactical strategies at a pace faster than glacial despite the fact that the playing field had started to change at breakneck speed. The only reason I didn’t say that was because my foaming at the mouth prohibitionist brother in law was exhibiting visible indications of being drunk. I decided that it would be a good thing to spare the rest of the family from suffering such extreme irony. So I went with citizen generated ballot initiatives betting that it would just fly right over his head. I won the bet.
      .
      .

    • thanks Kap, nice connect! Michael Brown is the current Reefer Madness version of “Reefer makes darkies think they’re as good as white men.”

  • The only violence stemming (pun intended) from Cannabis is either police-initiated violence, or theft. Both are created by prohibition. Would there be theft of stash or cash otherwise? Sure, but at least the cops would be there to help. Nothing has done more to foster disrespect for the police than the failed drug war.

  • mr Ikasheeni

    Gov. Walker has brought back from the dead screening the poor. Where is Rand Paul on that?

  • DdC

    Where do they get such notions that Ganja causes violence to an extent Cops can justify just about anything to defend themselves. …

    HARRY ANSLINGER’S GORE FILE
    http://reefermadnessmuseum.org/chap10/Gore.htm
    It has now been well documented that starting in 1932 the Federal Government took part in (as well as helped orchestrate) a mass hysteria campaign against the Medical Marihuana plant. Calling it “The Assassin of Youth,” and claiming that its use was turning normally sane young men into hideous criminal beasts, sex fiends; the worst kind of cold blooded murderers etc.

    Marijuana – The First Twelve Thousand Years Ernest L. Abel
    The complete history of the cannabis plant and it’s relationship with mankind
    http://www.ukcia.org/research/abel/index.php
    Curiously, the Arabs themselves have never regarded hashish as a drug which inspires violence. … Yet in America, a country with a history of violence and little familiarity with cannabis as a mind-altering substance, hashish was to become known as the “killer drug”.

    Myth : The word assassin is derived from the word hashish.
    https://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info4.shtml
    It is from this story that the connection between the words assassin and hashish is drawn. It is said that the word assassin comes from the Arabic word haschishin for hashish user. But Hassan and his followers didn’t speak Arabic; they were Persians. Assassin comes from Hassassin — a follower of Hassan.

    Hassan, in fact, was a hashish prohibitionist. He argued that the Koran’s ban on alcohol was a ban on all intoxicants, so his assassins were drug free terrorists. Except in the false Paradise where they were served wine as one of the joys of heaven. So, it is desire for alcohol not hashish that helped motivate the Assassins.

    Narcotics police are an enormous, corrupt international bureaucracy …
    and now fund a coterie of researchers who provide them with ‘scientific support’ … fanatics who distort the legitimate research of others.”
    ~ William F. Buckley, Jr. Requiescat In Pace
    Commentary in The National Review, April 29, 1983, p. 495

    ☛ Cannabis Helps Keep Fans Calm
    http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/1672
    Alcohol’s long-standing association with aggressive behavior, whether it’s among raucous sports fans or late-night bar patrons, is well-publicized and much debated. Yet, a relevant fact that is often overlooked in this public discourse is that an alternative, almost equally consumed intoxicant, is rarely, if ever, linked with violence – – marijuana.

    Police also claimed that the availability of cannabis in the Netherlands probably helped to defuse any violence. Scores of ticketless England fans gathered in coffee shops in Eindhoven, where cannabis is sold and smoked, to watch the game, greeting the defeat with mild disappointment and unusually, gentle applause. “It (cannabis) may have helped relax them,” Mr Beelan added. “Even the hooligans enjoyed the party – and they told our officers. There were lots of things for fans to do and everybody had a good time.”
    ☛ Fans Too Relaxed for Fights
    ☛ Basketball Riots in L.A., Soccer Thugs in Europe
    ☛ Euro 2000 Soccer Violence Could Vanish in a Puff
    ☛ Aggression and Violence in Sport

  • strayan

    Mark Kleiman’s keynote on ‘drugged driving’ is actually really good (much to my amazement): https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLGVsjzyaWFtwmHAP7uCVrwzUWvQNUNjRg&params=OAFIAVgI&v=voaoPaPYfHA&mode=NORMAL

    • claygooding

      When TX does their next drive to arrest drivers for THC metabolites in your blood I will petition the legislature to put the same punishment for driving 5 MPH over the speed limit as a DUI for marijuana use,,it has the same endangerment of an accident and I want equal protection from speeders and stoned drivers.

    • Hope

      Kleiman actually points out that it’s not the same as alcohol at all and relates it pretty well. Whether the prohibitionists can hear and understand what he’s saying is another matter.

      Calming or educating a prohibitionist is not easy, as we too well know.

  • claygooding

    The Prez is spending $280 million for 50,000 body cameras,,I e-mailed him he should shop Ebay

    Actually more SWAT team training too.

    I wonder who is buying stocks in the winning camera manufacturer???

  • Duncan20903

    .
    .

    Scientists Developing Marijuana Breathalyzer To Catch Stoned Drivers
    American Voices • Opinion • drugs • ISSUE 50•48 • Dec 2, 2014

    Researchers at Washington State University are reportedly developing a breathalyzer test to identify drivers who are high on marijuana, which would measure the presence of THC in someone’s breath to give police a “higher level of confidence in making an arrest.” What do you think?

    “Wouldn’t it be easier to just pull over everyone who is actually driving the speed limit?”

    Paul Desroches – Product Tester

    ——————————

    “Oh, man, being paranoid about getting pulled over while high is the last thing I needed while driving high.”

    Thomas Schultz – Bioengineer

    ——————————

    “Can’t people just tell the truth when they are high? Why do we need all these fancy gadgets?”

    Angela Dixon – Scarf Knitter

  • the ability to watch videos is so freaking nice… Reason and Jon Stewart, Prince Ea… Allan is a happy camper.

    WATCH: When San Francisco Stopped Prosecuting Drug Users, Violent Crime Went Down
    http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/02/watch-when-san-francisco-stopped-prosecu

    Of course I knew I’d run into folks I have no desire to… ran into Steve Hager. I made a fox in the henhouse comment and asked that he block me, eeeww.

  • DdC

    NIDA’s Nutty Nora’s Tax Paid Gossip http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/1878

    Nora believes cigarettes are less harmful than cannabis…
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B32UwgeCEAA6I9d.jpg:large

    • Servetus

      Nora Valkow’s most significant job proviso for her NIDA directorship is she’s Leon Trotsky’s granddaughter:

      There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances. — Leon Trotsky

      Thanks for the tip about Nora, Leon.

  • “Two or three years ago, a kilogram [2.2 pounds] of marijuana was worth $60 to $90,” says Nabor, a 24-year-old pot grower … “But now they’re paying us $30 to $40 a kilo. It’s a big difference. If the U.S. continues to legalize pot, they’ll run us into the ground.”
    http://tinyurl.com/lvstdln

    Wonder what Kinkaid’s take on this is? He is twisted and not even vaguely interested in truth. He still sticks to the same old marijuana drives you crazy propaganda. Kinkaid is not credible. He just knows how to repeat the lies just like Anslinger’s parrot.

    • claygooding

      It is impossible to gauge the impact legal weed is having on the cartels by what is happening in Mexico anymore because during the recent real estate market collapse they were buying properties all over the US and moving growers into them,,,it is what I would have done if I had a $30+ billion dollar industry that grows anywhere.

      I wish the interviewer had asked the grower if any of his fellow growers had moved north recently,,that would be the million dollar question..

  • B. Snow

    The only plausible connection to marijuana in the shooting of Brown – was the swisher cigars = there’s a good chance they would’ve been used to roll blunts.

    And… back before most people all caved-in on the pressure to Sin-Tax the beejezzus out of tobacco, and more recently given the FDA the ability to goeven further (loose pipe tobacco – which had been cheap got a $25 a lb. Tax added to it = to make it damn near as expensive as rolled corporate cigs, banning clove cigs (aka “kreteks”) because they’re sweet/”flavored” which was BS.)

    And similar moves by folks like Ex-NYC King Bloomberg – trying to make all tobacco products cost $10.10 a pack – regardless of size!
    (I remember that for a time – it was exactly the same amount as they wanted to raise the minimum wage to…)

    Ya see, there were “capitalists” that tried to sell smaller packs of cigarrillos affordable to people who weren’t likely to pay the crazy $15~18 (IIRC, for standard packs of 20 cigs – of which about $10+ is just the sin-taxes!)
    In TX its $5-6 I think = a carton of ten is about $50-55 or something like that.

    That why the one guy up in NY got choked to death – he was selling “un-taxed” loosey cigs for iirc a $1 each. Back about 12-15 years ago they were 25 cents in NY, here in TX nobody really did that, EXCEPT – places were cigs were banned = like in the state mental hospital where cheap-ass administrators had already made them smoke hand-rolled Bugle’s…

    But the Dems & “progressive” Nannies keep felling like they’re “winning the war on tobacco” (just ask Kev-Kev he’ll say they did) and then raise spectre of it as a scary ghost of “the next big tobacco”!

    I say we’re free, or we’re not free = IF, I decide to go buy a gallon of gas and use it to make kool-aid – w/ that ought to be an *admittedly absurd* choice for me to maken but my choice alone.
    I get that in the “Mad-Men” Era they had doc’s doing TV ads for cigs & that was unfortunate for many people… and misleading – that’s life sometimes.

    But, I know Native Americans have smoked various “tobaccos” way before people were advertising it.
    I also know that cigs have helped some folks with depression related issues that may otherwise lead to “suicidal thoughts & actions” – which is IMO/experience often isn’t (necessarily) as much of a side-effect of those meds = As it is to the demonization of cigarettes & all forms of tobacco smoking.

    I’d love to see someone do an un-biased study & see if there is a correlation between the reduction of cig smoking vs a spike in the suicide rate (that goes beyond recent military service), and that at least has a control/study group of people that accounts for this possibility effecting the study in either direction.

    LONG STORY SHORT, I doubt Mr.Brown was going to smoke the ‘Swishers’ w/ the tobacco still inside (or tobacco+cannabis as some folks do, or used to do?)

    And if they had been cheap/(cheap-ish), would he have paid for them & still be alive today???

    • claygooding

      The video of Michael’s altercation with the store clerk was edited by police,,there is a reported full tape on youtube I think that clearly shows Michael putting the money on the counter for the cigars,,I have not viewed it yet but whether he paid for it or not no report of the altercation had been made until after the shooting,,unless the officer saw the argument between the store clerk he had no idea about it.

  • Windy

    OT of this post but relevant to WA State’s legal pot and ending civil forfeiture; I posted a comment from a WA legislator on the civil forfeiture thread (at the bottom of the page) that looks to be good news for WA residents as well as tokers. Go check it out.

  • Howard

    I wish we had more “news” sources that are as fun as the Daily Fail;

    Cannabis users ‘have lungs of 80-year-olds’: Doctors warn people are turning up at A&E with new form of emphysema after using drug for less than ten years.

    http://tinyurl.com/kcnkuxt

    • primus

      Other studies have shown that cannabis alone does not cause COPD. Tobacco alone does cause COPD but the worst is cannabis and tobacco combined. This article mentions that joints over there commonly contain tobacco hence the damage. Stupid reporters never ask the right questions.

      • DdC

        Tobacco alone does cause COPD

        No, Cigarettes cause COPD. With their flame retardants, burn enhancers, and hundreds of other adulterants added by human profiteers to make it a pleasurable experience… according to Ronald Q Rayguns. Scapegoating and demonizing is best left to prohibitionists. If they bastardized cannabis with these toxins you would end up with the same results as cigarettes. What the IOM used to demonize the evil “smoke” equally across the board. Same as Vape sales personnel. Selling the Ganjawar or merchandize. In this case prohibitionists and legalizers selling their products. Only problem is that lies for the sake of truth never reach the goal. Nature is always right Humans are always wrong. No contest. Stigmatizing organic tobacco is not a valid reason to legalize cannabis. It only gives Monsanto and the Big Ag Fat Pharma corporations immuity from prosecution. Keeps their evil deeds in the shadows while the light focus’ on the red herring. The US Indians probably smoked tobacco less than the Europeans and Early Americans. Turkish, Chinese and India all smoked tobacco long before the victims of poison adulterants here. Even after these adulterants were exposed they kept advertising them. With scruples like this, would they lie about Ganja?

        Cancer risk in relation to radioactivity in tobacco
        http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/1689

        Organic Cannabis/Tobacco vs Chemical Cigarettes
        http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/443
        http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/444

        In reality demonizing cigarettes and especially banning them only do harm to the poor smokers. By leading them to cheaper brands with even more chemical adulterants. Oh sure they should quit, but vengeance is a little harsh. Scaring them as with fear mongering drugs may get some to stop using out of fear. Not that they actually choose to but its better for the job, family, etc etc. Someone forced to do something is destined to rebel and hold the oppressor accountable. The best and healthiest solution would be to subsidize organic tobacco with the money they are subsidizing chemicals. Stop punishing people you think of as victims. Stop the hobgoblins. If second hand smoke is dangerous, it is so far behind fossil fools, nukes and fracking you can’t see it. Driving down the freeway is more toxic. Living downstream of Koch Bros paper mills is toxic. Most if not all Fat Pharma drugs are toxic along with the subsidized chemical foods and not organic foods. Banning smoking in outdoor parks is ridiculous as a safety concern, yet it brings towns kickback fines. The Neoconfederates sell these chemicals. They sell the Ganjawar and they sell Frankenfud. Again, would they lie to keep selling their treatments for the misery they create? btw Europeans have used tobacco with less potent pot made into hash to keep it lit in joints with no COPD reported. Organic Tobacco and Ganja and Poppy are plants that assist mankind as well as Hemp. Tobacco leaves are being studied for Parkinson treatment. Tobacco is a plant and only an ingredient of cigarettes that are the actual toxic product.

        6 corporations own these media outlets… Would they lie?
        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4AgZx2CcAE_peY.jpg

      • Howard

        If I’m not mistaken, research by Dr. Donald Taskin showed that between three groups — those who used tobacco only, those who used tobacco and cannabis, and those who only used cannabis — the tobacco only users suffered the greatest health issues with respect to COPD. Those users of both tobacco and cannabis suffered less health issues than tobacco users alone. Dr Taskin surmised that this was because certain cannabis compounds mitigate damage caused by tobacco use. Those who only used cannabis did not suffer any meaningful health problems with respect to COPD and other lung health issues.

        Also, it isn’t just the chemicals added to tobacco that causes health problems, especially regarding lung cancer. Nicotine is thought to interfere with apoptosis i.e., programmed cell death. When cells do not die after their useful life span is over, there is the possibility those cells will mutate and possibly become cancerous. On the other hand, both THC and CBD ‘encourage’ the natural timing of apoptosis. The Devil’s Lettuce wins again.

        • claygooding

          He also noted that marijuana use could have a blocking effect on cancers in people that smoked both C & T because there was less cancers in the “both” group than the tobacco only group.

          That the NIDA has yet to allow any research on that statistic is one of many crimes against humanity,hopefully,sweet Nora will get to face.

        • DdC

          As it is now IOM and Taskin used cigarettes, not organic tobacco. As the stats used now to determine death rates. As most tobacco products consumed are chemical waste dumps. But in the real world those poisons added to broccoli would give negative results and again organic tobacco used before the US cigarette campaign has no victims the same as no victims of cannabis. Same argument, bait and switch. But in Europe where they actually have used tobacco and cannabis or camel dung and cannabis. No records of actual humans. I have no doubt cannabis prevents illness from chemical cigarettes. Expectorant properties plus the ability to dilate small arteries and the combination of Endocannabinoids antibiotic and anti-inflammatory properties also preventing COPD, cancer and it’s the only thing known to stop a full blown asthma attack.

          So once again elephants and rabbits are both mammals the same as cigarettes and organic tobacco are both mostly made from tobacco plants but they are not the same end results. Until that is addressed the Butt Probies will compare cannabis to cigarettes, the fear factor will make poor smokers sick and the Butt prohibition profiteers rich. All whle keeping the real enemy out of the picture. Plus the reverse, mentioned before. Lumping them together is like lumping Hemp in with Ganja. On paper its all the same cannabis plant. According to the CSA Hemp has no medicinal use and it is still considered a schedule#1 narcotic. Taskin worked for NIDA and accidentally discovered it did no harm. Same with Grinspoon originally. They all start out trying to prove the negative and those with integrity publish their findings while weasels like Nida Nora Trotski bury it.

          Additive free tobacco vs. the majority of commercial tobacco. “Better”?
          One of the little secrets that the anti-tobacco crusaders don’t want publicized is that only about 15% of tobacco smokers ever actually die of smoking-related illness. (That’s from the CDC)

          Meaning that about 85% of tobacco smokers keep right on puffing until they’re killed by something else, such as a car wreck or a piano falling on their heads.

          ORGANIC TOBACCO: Non Cancerous, Non Addictive, The Truth About Tobacco! “Organic versus Commercial – The Tobacco Wars, Just Got Hotter!”
          Organic Tobacco doesn’t cause Cancer and is Non-Addictive.

          Commercial Cigarettes contain arsenic, formaldehyde, lead, hydrogen cyanide, nitrogen oxide, carbon monoxide, ammonia and 43 known carcinogens, as well as added and enhanced Addictives. They make it Cancerous, and then they make it addictive!

          Only a portion of the tobacco inside a cigarette comes from the leaf of a tobacco plant. A significant amount of the shredded brown innards of most modern cigarettes is a paper product called “reconstituted tobacco” or “homogenized sheet tobacco,” which is made from a pulp of mashed tobacco stems and other parts of the tobacco leaf that would otherwise go to waste.

          Of all people with personal experience of government and corporate lies and gutter science about cannabis. Cannabists should be a little more skeptical over the newest fear mongering. The Butt Probies have already created a multibillion black market. They have sucessfully scapegoated tobacco as the culprit leaving the thousands of poison additives free of all examination or realistic conclusions. Plus they continue to use “smoke” to demonize Ganja when Ganja has no additives.

        • primus

          I believe you are mistaken. T&C together were worst. I posit this is because cannabis is a bronchodilator which allows tobacco toxins to get even deeper into the lungs. As to whether the damage caused by cigarettes is due to tobacco or to additives is a red herring. The form of tobacco that most people encounter is cigarettes so the studies are very valid.

        • DdC

          What you believe is no concern to anyone, what is tangible is cannabis prevents anything cigarettes cause and tobacco causes nothing and the prohibition of tobacco is exactly the same as the drug war. What you said may or may not pertain to cigarette adulteration chemicals and poor quality cannabis, but that is prohibition, not reality. Cannabis or tobacco doesn’t cause prison rape but it happens when people get busted. Same bait and switch. My lungs are still clear and spreading gossip is still not science. Maybe you should get your references from someone without vested interest in prohibition like the Daily Mail.

          The Daily Mail Reefer Madness Archive: http://www.clear-uk.org/the-daily-mail-reefer-madness-archive/#.VIS5DpTtyOA.twitter … 10 years of inaccurate, misleading and distorted information about cannabis

          Their latest fits with your assessment…

          In four cases…
          well that’s conclusive

          Researchers “believe” …
          like religionists, still not science.

          “bong lung” …
          Give me a break. Besides I smoke joints without paraphernalia other than an organic paper.

          but we “believe” ,,,
          I believe they are full of shit.

          Eight patients….
          Oh well I guess that about says it all. 8 out of hundreds of millions.

          Lung Disease On Rise Over UK Cannabis Habits, Alert
          http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v14/n907/a09.html
          BRITAIN is on the verge of a steep rise in young adults getting a severe form of lung disease due to regular cannabis and tobacco smoking, Welsh scientists have warned.

          Who says Libertarians don’t agree with me?

          You’ll never guess what Rand Paul thinks killed Eric Garner
          http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/04/1349324/-You-ll-never-guess-what-Rand-Paul-thinks-killed-Eric-Garner#
          Sen. Rand Paul’s theory is that Eric Garner was killed by something conveniently in alignment with Rand Paul’s politics: taxes.

          “Obviously, the individual circumstances are important, but I think it’s also important to know that some politician put a tax of $5.85 on a pack of cigarettes, so they’ve driven cigarettes underground by making them so expensive,” the Kentucky Republican said Wednesday on MSNBC’s “Hardball with Chris Matthews.”

          He continued, “But then some politician also had to direct the police to say, ‘Hey, we want you arresting people for selling a loose cigarette.’”

          Asked about marijuana, Paul says ‘I made mistakes’ http://news.yahoo.com/asked-marijuana-paul-says-made-mistakes-230022369–election.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=tw … via @YahooNews

          Daddy Paul Toking a Doobie.
          http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/g2BV3nhmCVU/0.jpg

  • Servetus

    The drug testing industry’s scheme to waste taxpayer money by getting states like Florida to drug test welfare recipients was just knocked down in a federal appeals court:

    December 3, 2014 — A federal appeals court on Wednesday said a Florida law requiring applicants for welfare benefits to undergo mandatory drug testing is unconstitutional, a decision that could affect efforts to enforce similar laws in other states.

    The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said Florida did not show a “substantial special need” to test all applicants to its Temporary Assistance for Needy Families program without any suspicion of drug use. The federally subsidized program was intended to help people pay for food, shelter and other necessities.

    “By virtue of poverty, TANF applicants are not stripped of their legitimate expectations of privacy,” Circuit Judge Stanley Marcus wrote for a three-judge panel. “If we are to give meaning to the Fourth Amendment’s prohibition on blanket government searches, we must – and we do – hold that (the law) crosses the constitutional line.”

    Robert DuPont, Peter Bensinger and the rehab industry are likely having a very bad day over this decision.

    • ( _____ (____( CLANG )____) ______ )

    • Duncan20903

      .
      .

      Picture this: Remember that time Jesus made everyone pee in a cup to get fed? Me neither.

      I must say I’m not sure why you think that Messrs. DuPont and Bensinger would be surprised by this ruling. These laws have been struck down so many times in so many Appeals Courts that it’s approaching time to think that just maybe the idiot prohibitionists might actually get the message.

      Besides, recent statements straight from the horse’s ass mouth lead me to believe that Dr. Bobby at least has figured out that they’ve lost.

      • claygooding

        I will not be surprised to see fire sales for home urine testing kits any day to start clearing the stocks,,but I know better than to count someone out that has been screwing America this long.

        DuPont is still giving speeches at rehab conventions and anywhere he gets a chance to drivel is sewage out,,Elk’s clubs,committee hearings in state legislatures and such.

        Even after legalization some of these spin-off industries are going to be as hard as a marijuana myth to kill.

    • DdC

      Rick Scott’s new gift to Solantic:
      drug testing state employees
      http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/03/rick-scotts-new-gift-to-solantic-drug-testing-state-employees/
      Scott’s newest scheme, which will help him turn a profit from his $70 million investment in becoming a one-term Florida governor, would be genius if it weren’t so darned evil. Fresh off his plan to drug test welfare recipients in the state, compounding what for many people is an embarrassing experience, having to take public assistance, Scott now plans to visit the same humiliation on state workers.

      Rick Scott’s Drug Law Isn’t Saving Florida Much Money http://thkpr.gs/303133 via @thinkprogress

      Gov. Rick Scott, Solantic and conflict of interest:
      What’s the deal?
      http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/gov-rick-scott-solantic-and-conflict-of-interest-whats-the-deal/1161158
      Scott has aggressively pursued policies like testing state workers and welfare recipients for drugs, switching Medicaid patients to private HMOs and shrinking public health clinics. All these changes could benefit that $62 million investment, but Scott sees no legal conflict between his public role and private investments.

      Drug mishandling may have tainted 40,000 cases
      http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/sreply/678

  • Duncan20903

    .
    .

    How much does it cost to not arrest people?

    House GOP Wants Omnibus to Block D.C. Pot Law

    This is the tactical strategy that Congress used to stymie the implementation 1998’s I-57 when voters approved DC’s medicinal cannabis patient protection law. One big difference here is that Congress stepped in very quickly and DC wasn’t even allowed to spend the money required to count the votes.

    Here’s another interesting development. Rand Paul will be chairman of the Senate Committee on the District of Columbia when Congress convenes next year.

    • that was one of those outrages that blew right over everyone outside drug policy. Holding votes hostage? wtf? Like that’s sooo American isn’t it? let freedom ring… pffft…

    • and I realize it’s 2 years old… but I’m further behind than that! 2 years old is new to me… besides he does a good job, skip the end, it’s irrelevant now.

      • NorCalNative

        Allan, great link.

        This old white geezer would be proud to call the Prince my son. I was that impressed.

        He’s smart and he’s working for positive change through literacy. And, if there’s ONE THING America REALLY needs, it’s MORE LITERACY!

      • Duncan20903

        .
        .

        If you haven’t seen them you’ll probably very much enjoy the video of a DEA agent literally shooting himself in the foot in a classroom filled with school children after stating that he was a highly trained expert in gun safety:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5iIY0zelGI

        Lawrence Welk covering a “modern spiritual” called “One Toke Over The Line”:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye3ecDYxOkg

        The 911 recording when a cop who stole cannabis from evidence thought he and his wife were dying from an overdose:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHTzpXyXO-4

        Heck, you might enjoy them even in if you have seen them before.

    • DdC

      The Onion is sort of relevant. More than the neoCongress. As for smelling some of the buds lingerings it is far better than that cheap ass chemical crap calogn they’re wearing. Or abortion causing bible belt cotton clothing on that plastic conformity they’re slinging like hash browns. While my hash brownies smell like the drug chocolate. Maybe a dash of the drug coffee beans and vanilla extract with alcohol. Like is in the mouthwash and Communion Vino. Aluminum waste byproducts in the toothpaste. Preservatives preserving humans meat parts, except for the mind that is terribly wasting from the Endocannabinoid Deficiency. Of which only 13%, I say 13 frickin percent of the United States of American medical schools even discuss the Endocannabinoid System. Cops are still taught it has no medicinal value. Gore files are next to the Bible with the CSA hiding inbetween.

      Colorado’s Pot Industry Looks To Move Past Stereotypes

      Move past bartering on the lies creating the stereotypes, demonizing and justification for any terroristic act on citizens in possession, inhaling or not.

      Make it seem natural…
      http://www.freaknet.org.uk/graphics01/g04/freaks/freaks04.gif

      • NorCalNative

        Thanks DdC, haven’t seen images of the FURRY FREAK BROTHERS for some time.

        I’m still a big fan of their credo: Better to have dope in times of no money, than money in times of no dope.

        For me, that’s as NATURAL as it gets.

        • DdC

          Thanks NCN. When life was simple before political correctness. Strange, in a I guess good way. For 40 years they stigmatize us furry freaks for smoking dope and now that they are discovering what we have been telling them is true. They want us all to convert to political correctness. My hair has kept the sun from turning me into a red neck, it keeps off the chill in cold times. If nature wanted us to look like poodles, nature would have made our hair stop growing at a half inch. Grooming is a part of political correctness as are neck ties and the appeasers and pleasers only cut out truth in favor of personal gains. No matter the real time results. Like the cartoon, many “legalizers” blame stoners for not selling out and kissing ass. They would bury the truth as quickly as the ONDCP if it helps their own personal causes. Mainly selling it. Or any doctor to hide their ignorance behind blame, is no doctor. Med schools don’t teach it but that doesn’t mean the information isn’t out there and doctors have more access then Cannabists so there really is no excuse for them. Now after decades of being pigeonholed as fruitcakes Science is showing we were right. I knew they were full of shit all along. Everytime I’d tell them the wonders of Ganja or the common sense to using Hemp I would get eyebrows raised halfway up their foreheads. Nowadays not so much.

          Still do with newbies, most doctors and nurses, until the patient results are in. Hemp nutrition or Ganja for symptoms can not be swept under the rug as NIDA does. So fuck the PC cops, leave the bong as it is and dump the rum. Keep the chemical trickery underarm deodorant clogging the pores preventing natural sweat. Fuck the hair groomers originally used to segregate the people. Wealthy and groomed from the poor who couldn’t afford the barbers and smelly coverups. I haven’t found a thing the hippies spoke out about that hasn’t been proven true. Cannabis or Organic food to organic clothing to renewable resources to Peace over Profit driven Police Actions. Every civil rights victim got support from hippies. Womens rights, gays and people of color all rode the coat tails of the antiwar movement and hippies and stoners and then forgot all about them as wasted packaging or unclaimed freight. Now MalWart sells chinese sweatshop made tye dyes and Ganja is delivered to your door. Our organic supermarket rivals any Safeway and we have a few Bio-diesel stations and solar powered off grid homes.

          Thank God for Hippies
          http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/topic/1148

  • Duncan20903

    .
    .

    Hold onto your hats! Better yet trade those hats for protective head gear!
    Council Passes Legislation To Ban Pre-Employment Marijuana Testing”

    Pinch me! I must be dreaming!

    I must be a really bad person. I can’t believe how happy I am that Marion Barry is dead.

  • claygooding

    Now the kid that witnessed Michael’s death has been executed and they tried to burn his body,,no arrests but I am sure they have a suspect list with the KKK in town.

    Pretty soon the police had better start demilitarizing themselves,,they are beginning to make America nervous,,they may have declared war on US.

  • claygooding

    Major THUDFUCKDUPONTINHISASS

    http://tinyurl.com/mrzcrry

    DC bans pot testing of job applicants

    Potential employers won’t be able to test applicants for marijuana in the District of Columbia until after they’ve made a conditional job offer under a bill approved by the D.C. Council. ‘snip’

    I have waited so long for someone to start ending the drug screening industry’s deathlock on keeping marijuana users from getting good jobs,,,this is a huge THUD on America’s “Berlin Wall”,,marijuana prohibition and the industries that depend on it remaining in place.

  • darkcycle

    Hey! Pete! The site ate my awesome post!

  • Hillary Clinton: ‘We have allowed our criminal justice system to get out of balance’ http://tinyurl.com/qxfpeac

    “… the U.S. has less than 5 percent of world’s population and almost 25 percent of the world’s total prison population”…

    She just can’t seem to get the words “drug war”,”drugs”, “marijuana”, “legalize” into her political vocabulary. She is not serious about fixing America’s law enforcement and prison problems if she can’t find room in her rhetoric for those words.

  • Mr_Alex

    Cliff Kincaid is in the same group as the Cannabis Prohibitionists, in New Zealand it gets worse, we have a group called the NZCPR (New Zealand Center for Political Research) and Family First, both are hard out Cannabis Prohibitionists and they will go any lengths to push Fraudulent Research and they are taken as credible by the New Zealand Government, I believe it has come to a point where Government and Prohibitionists and etc should be made accountable for the stuff they write

    • DdC

      The Ganjawar is a product they dupe the believers into buying, with the same hobgoblins as any religionist. Fear. Nothing is substantiated, it’s always in the future and is seldom repeated. End justifies the means no different from any other group in History manipulating the situation. Those herding the sheep get big bucks to “treat” the nonexistent problem. Perpetuate the profits the same as Healthcare and the Fat Pharma oligarchy. Never cure. Never Prevent. Never win or lose. Over 3/4th of a Century and going strong. Nothing has changed but peoples opinions. The $38 question is, does that matter?

      A very lucrative hoax…
      A Trillion spent on the Ganjawar is a Trillion in the Pockets of Prohibitionists.
      http://endingcannabisprohibition.yuku.com/sreply/434

      We probably have better food in our dumpsters than most third world countries kids get. But do we really want our kids eating in dumpsters? Homeless Vets? Hungry kids? Private prisons, max cap, renting cages with guaranteed full houses. Imported crud and illegal Hemp. Bottom dwelling tar scrapings piped through the Aquifer. Fracking earthquakes and Cheney Haliburton immunity from the Clean Air and Water Acts. We the People and Them juicing cops with tanks protecting Mr Peabody’s coal trains and Nukes built on previously dormant faults. Oh, but eliminating the safest substance in the entire pharmacopeia is a top priority.

      https://www.facebook.com/222DdC

      Feds tastelessly use Michael Brown to further marijuana opposition
      Micheal Brown and the Marijuana Defamation
      http://thelastamericanvagabond.com/Micheal_Brown_Marijuana.php

      Police Juice Up on Steroids to Get ‘Edge’ on Criminals
      https://www.facebook.com/222DdC/posts/10152721629392326
      Cop Steroid Rage Caught On Video
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATWr0295QJY

      • thelbert

        your first paragraph sums it all up nicely. the only tools the prohibitches have are fear and violence. when people don’t fear the narks the war is over.

  • Mr_Alex

    In my previous comment, using fraudulent research to continue Cannabis Prohibition or any other stuff is a serious crime