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Legalized

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breckBRECKENRIDGE, Colo. — The skiing town of Breckenridge voted Tuesday night by a margin of nearly 3 to 1 to legalize the adult possession of marijuana.

Breckenridge voters passed Measure 2F, which removes criminal penalties from the town code for the private possession of up to one ounce of marijuana by adults 21 and older. The ordinance also removes criminal penalties for the possession of bongs, pipes and other drug paraphernalia.

It passed 73 percent to 27 percent.

[Thanks, Allan]

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31 comments to Legalized

  • kaptinemo

    That increasingly loud rumbling you’re hearing and feeling underfoot is the tectonic shift that’s been taking place for a while picking up speed. It’s also something else:

    Recall Professor Whitebread’s Iron law of Prohibitions: Enacted by an identifiable US to be used against an equally identifiable THEM. And when the US become THEM? Then the prohibition is jettisoned.

    Arguably, Breckenridge is a town that caters to the whims of the Investor Class, those who can afford not to live there, but who go there for entertainment. The identifiable ‘US’. Now the DrugWar is affecting that identifiable ‘US” who have become ‘THEM’. Ergo, the laws change.

    I realize, of course, that there are many more factors involved; this is not an attempt at reductio ad absurdum, even though that wouldn’t be difficult (The DrugWar is patently and unavoidably absurd).

    But in essence the Iron Law has been invoked, and, at least locally, the prohibition has been repealed. And this pattern will continue, probably first at the municipal, later at the county and finally at the State level, as it becomes evident that cannabis prohibition guarantees economic ‘sucking hind tit’ status for those municipalities, counties and States that maintain it when their neighbors don’t and reap the economic rewards for their sensibility. It won’t take much of that before the realization is made that ideology doesn’t put food on the table, but profits from a legal source of cannabis certainly will.

  • Chris

    I haven’t seen a link with the text of the petition yet. This only legalizes possession, not sale right? What about cultivation? Hard to call that legalized when it’s still in the same position as alcohol prohibition. This is probably just decrim without a fine.

  • The wins feel nice insofar as it’s proof that the majority of the american people agree that pot should not be criminalized (though it depends how you ask the question). But I contend these local victories are meaningless as long as federal law still considers it a crime. Federal law always trumps state law, and nobody can rely on a “priority of prosecution” memo for any substantive rights, defenses, or even admissible evidence. And in this case, State law always trumps city ordinances. Hey guess what, we took a vote in my house, and not only did decriminalization of marijuana possession pass by a landslide (100% of the votes in support of it), we had the same result for supporting the decriminalization of all other drugs.

    So what? Unenforceable laws don’t mean squat. All they are good for is, in the long run, being able to cite them in future federal elections as some evidence of what people want. But what people want has nothing to do with the drug war, and insofar as it does, the fact that a few localities passed pro-marijuana ballot initiatives is belied by the fact that 99.9% of American communities didn’t even have enough support to put such initiatives on their ballots in the first place (yes I realize not all jurisdictions permit this type of ballot initiative).

    Also, for every person advocating legal marijuana possession (whether for “personal use” (i.e. recreation) or only for “medical use”), I can’t help but read between the lines and hear those people saying that they agree that all drugs except marijuana are properly criminalized and should remain as such.

    In other words, I think 95% of the pro-marijuana lobby is a bunch of hypocrites who support 99.9% of the drug war. Instead of fighting against the evils of prohibition such as the violations of our fundamental human rights to cognitive liberty, individual freedom, and personal choice, they just want to smoke their pot and once they get the right to do that (which will never happen anyway, but that’s beside the point), their cause will be complete and then by default they’ll be loyal drug war supporters.

  • claygooding

    While it is a step forward and another lever for our pro-activists when the prohibitionists claim that our society will self destruct if marijuana is legalized,it could be a double edged sword. Will it stand as a good example or bad?
    As with the clinic problems in LA becaquse the cartels and our own entrepreneurs have moved into the clinic business
    because it is just too easy and the market is so large.
    As long as pot is illegal and medical marijuana is not,this is going too happen.
    And will Breckenridge entrepreneurs and the cartels try to set up coffee shops or probably bars within their city
    for a tourist draw,and what effect will that have on their economy? Their success’s and failures,problems and benefits will be under scrutiny by many.
    Now if only a state would legalize and really get this ball rolling.
    If Mexico could settle their violence problems,can you imagine the possibilities of a Cancundam?

  • Cliff

    “Instead of fighting against the evils of prohibition such as the violations of our fundamental human rights to cognitive liberty, individual freedom, and personal choice, they just want to smoke their pot and once they get the right to do that (which will never happen anyway, but that’s beside the point), their cause will be complete and then by default they’ll be loyal drug war supporters.”

    Bruce;

    As a Libertarian and a medicinal cannabis user, I just want you to know that I haven’t given up the fight to end the war on certain drugs. However, the economic conditions which we are weathering have forced activism to take a back seat to putting food on the table.

    When I had a real job, with benefits and a decent paycheck, I ran as a Libertarian candidate for Colorado State House and have supported many others in their campaigns as well as made a personal stand to not cooperate willingly with the pee for employment scam some employers try to force on people who just want to earn an honest living.

    Right now, my business of 3 years is failing and my part time janitorial gig is providing me with most of my income and a plethora of aches and pains since my team cleans 5 buildings a night.

    I think that everyone here at DWR has done as much or more than I have. Rest assured, there are many more people out there fighting the good fight than you think.

    As long as the war on certain drugs wastes lives, blood and treasure in my name, I will regard all those who support it as parasitic jack boots and flag waving boot lickers.

    The times my friend, they are a changin’, be patient, keep your powder dry, be ready for the final assault, we are winning.

  • Dreau Preau

    Why is everyone calling this a legalization? All I see is a decriminalization. You can only carry an ounce, so obviously there is still no system legislated for licensed marijuana distribution or home growing.

    Yet it seems like EVERYONE calls it legalization. What gives?

  • no step forward is meaningless. The Berlin Wall didn’t fall with one blow from a sledge… Prohibitionists continue to make public jackasses of themselves and we continue to advance with science, compassion and I cntinue to feel that there will be a pivotal point reached when our society realizes that pot has been vilified falsely and at our expense – especially since the gummint has set back the cancer fight by at least 25 years by burying the Virginia Medical College study.

    We may get high but they kill people.

  • Agree with Allan like I usually do.

    And every liberalization and positive change in public opinion makes it less likely that prosecutors will prosecute and juries will convict.

    Glass is more than half full, bros. Hopefully, a nice bowl pack full. 🙂

  • Dreau Preau – legalization/legislation/decriminalization are all working hand-in-hand together to end the war.

  • Yes, there is such a thing as a meaningless step forward. Or to be more specific, it’s an illusory step forward – it’s no real step forward at all.

    You’ll see what I mean when Obama signs a “healthcare reform” bill that is 19,000 pages of handouts to the health insurance companies. Even though there’s no public option, even though it will make the insurance companies twice as rich and powerful as they already are, there will be one or two tiny concessions, such as the one they were talking about today – that “health insurance companies cannot drop people except in cases of fraud or misrepresentation” (which is exactly the status quo). The stupid among us will applaud Obama for achieving real healthcare reform – he did it, yay! The merely dumb among us will realize the healthcare “reform” bill is worthless and nothing but a handout to the insurance companies, but due to the one or two little concessions, they’ll say it’s a step forward.

    Some people call things a “step forward” when they know it’s not just to make themselves feel better about the pathetic, horrible state of things. I’m sure back in the days of Jim Crow, a black man getting beaten to within an inch of his life by the KKK instead of being lynched from a tree, sodomized with a two-by-four, and burned to death was considered a “step forward” by the type of people who consider “no step forward is meaningless.”

    It troubles me when people consider a clear lack of progress to be meaningful progress. Americans are more delusional than ever. Ask the average Democrat why they like Obama, and they’ll say it’s because he’s ended the war in Iraq, ended the war in Afghanistan, closed Guantanamo, ended Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, stopped renditions, stopped abusing the “state secrets” doctrine, stopped warrantless wiretapping, stopped torture, and repealed the Bush tax cuts.

    He hasn’t done a god damn thing aside from appointing a right wing, pro-life Catholic, anti-defendant “tough on crime” ex-prosecutor drug warrior to the Supreme Court (but she’s a woman and a hispanic, so how freakin’ cool is he!). And while we may no longer be waterboarding, the only reason to do renditions is to torture people in countries where torture is not illegal. So we’re having the Pakistanis do our waterboarding (and more serious torture) for us. Great. But hey, it’s a step forward.

    I call DELUSIONS on you.

  • Bruce. Can you tell me one thing that Obama has to do with Breckenridge? Is he in charge of the elections there? Is he the Mayor there? Is he registered to vote there?

    This is getting really tiring. We talk about a bit of progress in affecting the people, or the press, or our own families, and you come down on that with some nonsense of how this shows that Obama isn’t the answer to everything.

    Nobody here is looking to Obama to fix drug policy. We have told you time and time again that such change comes from the people, not the top. The politicians follow.

    Accusing us of delusion when we’re actively trying to make change is irresponsible on your behalf. You’re not going to accomplish anything in drug policy yourself if all you can do is be pissed at Obama.

  • Pete I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear, Obama’s “change” was just the first example of an illusory “step forward” (well, at least thus far one year into his administration).

    Allan and others are saying there’s no such thing as a meaningless step forward, and I disagree with that notion. I was using Obama’s lack of “Change” and his audacity of compromise to prove my point. Every time Obama fails to do something he said he’d do, as long as the Republicans play pissed off, a large portion of Democrats consider Obama’s lack of action or meaningless action to be a “step forward.”

    I can think of other examples, too. Obama was just the big glaring one that popped into my mind first. As for Obama changing drug policy to our liking, I have no expectations of that whatsoever.

    My sole point was that people in a small municipality who pass a law contrary to the controlling laws of the state by which it’s bound, and contrary to the controlling laws of the country by which it’s bound is not a “step forward” in any way. Though if your definition of “step forward” differs from mine, then it’s a meaningless and illusory “step forward.”

    Look at it from the opposite direction. If the town of Hickville, Alabama passes an ordinance tomorrow that says black people may not serve on juries, would anyone seriously consider that a step backwards? There’s no question such an ordinance would be unenforceable under both state and federal law, and anyone who tried to enforce it would do so at their own peril of prosecution.

    As long as we’re going to be forced to live under flawed constitutional jurisprudence that allows the US Congress to regulate the possession of drugs based on the limitless power reading of the Constitution’s Commerce Clause, the few state and local marijuana decriminalization statutes/ordinances are meaningless.

    I think it is delusional to act like this is somehow real progress. As you know, Congress is about to pass the Grassley Censorship Amendment. That, my friend, is a meaningful “step” – a step backwards, and that one “step” trumps the few legally void state and local pro-marijuana ordinances that have been passed here and there.

    Finally, it’s worth pointing out how many states (and cities, since they’re now in on the action) have not passed laws – or expressly rejected laws – decriminalizing marijuana. That number far exceeds the few quirky places that have passed pot-friendly, though wholly void, laws and ordinances.

    When we’re talking about drug prohibition, the glass is always half empty. One must look at this issue from the most cynical point of view possible to make any sense out of it.

    I love your website Pete, I think you and a lot of the people who routinely post here are brilliant. But America will end before American drug prohibition ends, and deep down we all know this. I hate to see such smart people occasionally delude themselves into thinking that a meaningless occurrence is a huge step towards victory – as if we won another battle. That, my friend, is delusional.

  • kaptinemo

    Bruce, nobody here could ever accuse me of being Pollyanna. I have too great an understanding of the American political system for that. And that understanding is based, yes, upon cynicism. But I also have a grasp of history, of its’ ebb and flow, and in this issue, the flow is increasingly in our favor, if only because of the circumstances which you have mentioned.

    As Frederick Douglass put it so long ago, power concedes nothing without a demand. In this case, the ‘demand’ will be on the part of severely economically stressed Americans (courtesy of the economic meltdown which the Powers-That-Be corp-rat kleptocracy and the Federal Reserve initiated) for ‘their’ government to concentrate on the very social programs that have been gutted these past 3 decades.

    That will require a massive shifting of available funds to social life-support programs, and away from where they are being spent now…such as the DrugWar. In short, domestic concerns will begin to out-weigh the agendas of those PTB’s, or said PTB’s may find themselves the victims of the results of their own greed, as many have throughout history. For the history books are full of examples of nations that forgot that dynamic and paid the price by later becoming footnotes in those history books…and the heads of the leaders of those nations often became forcibly detached from their necks and took up residence on pikes. It could get that bad here, for as one sci-fi author I read once put it, “No place is more than three missed meals away from a revolution.”

    My Brit friends used to have a saying: “The scum always rises to the top.” And that has certainly been the case in American politics. But if the scum wish to remain there, they will have to make concessions, for their power is becoming increasingly limited to projecting force….and there’s a hundred million firearms owners in this country, who have good reason to be suspicious of government, thanks to atrocities like Ruby Ridge, Waco, and now the twin abominations of the so-called ‘PATRIOT Act’ and the MCA. Add a few of those missed meals, and the very collapse you predict will occur, and bloodily.

    If said scum don’t want that to happen, they will have to begin throwing out some bones with more than a few shreds of meat on them to appease an increasingly discontented electorate, and the end of cannabis prohibition courtesy of re-allocating the funds involved in maintaining it to the social life-support programs might well be one such bone.

  • kaptinemo: Most Americans think America is too big (and great, wonderful, magical, and loved by Jesus) to fail. It’s not – nothing is fail-proof, except the capacity for people to be stupid. America has been on a decline towards complete self-destruction through insustainability for a few decades now. At some point during the Bush Administration, we passed the point of no return. America (by that I mean the federal government in D.C. – the executive, legislative, judicial branches plus the “fourth branch” administrative agencies) will soon be financially bankrupt and federal employees won’t work for IOUs or worthless dollars, and we won’t be able to afford to pay them in Euros or Pounds. We’re so close to the point where America will no longer be able to have the great luxury of paying its debts in its own currency. Very few countries have this luxury (only those with the most stable, trusted currencies). As the value of the dollar keeps declining, China – who has been buying our debt – will begin to demand we pay it off in some currency other than US$. Some people have told me as long as America is the biggest consumer of Chinese goods, China will continue to buy our debt to keep us around. But that makes no sense – we all want cheap Chinese merchandise whether we are citizens of America or the Republic of Florida. China will have 280 million people living between Canada and Mexico wanting its cheap goods regardless of whether Washington DC is open for business.

    The US only has about 1.5-2 years left. To be sure, the huge cost (and not just financial) of the drug war is one of the top 5 reasons that America is doomed to collapse.

    If the US had 50 more years, then I might agree that in about 40 or so years from now, marijuana would be decriminalized in most places, but with certain irrational, pointless restrictions (like alcohol and tobacco). But legal pot does not mean the end of prohibition. It’s all or nothing. Heroin sold to children on playgrounds. Fentanyl sold by the pound at Walmart. Cocaine out of vending machines. Drugs need to be as legal as apple pie. All of them, not just weed.

  • kaptinemo

    “Heroin sold to children on playgrounds. Fentanyl sold by the pound at Walmart. Cocaine out of vending machines. Drugs need to be as legal as apple pie. All of them, not just weed.”

    Bruce, I’ll assume for now that you are taking liberties with hyperbole.

    I am probably as angry and disgusted with the Nanny-State and ‘Momism’ as you are, and heartily wish every prohib could be stripped, forced to wear adult diapers, tied to an over-sized baby chair, treated to a 24/7 diet of pablum, and made to watch Teletubbies and Barnie until they totally lose it and their eyes roll up in their heads and they begin screaming and frothing at the mouth. A fitting revenge for trying to infantilize an entire nation with their damnable DrugWar.

    But…

    I was told long ago never to hand a fresh magazine to an idiot with an empty weapon, as the next target of said idiot might be the person who did. You might want to consider that the prohibs have pretty much run out of ammo, and are desperate for such a reload. They do read here, you know. That posting, even though made in jest, would be just what they’re looking for.

  • kaptinemo: No, I’m not taking liberties with hyperbole, though with respect to selling heroin to kids on playgrounds, I actually don’t have a problem with age restrictions on being able to purchase drugs similar to what we have with alcohol and tobacco, except for the fact that it’s been shown over and over again that (a) age restrictions do not work and are easily circumvented and (b) age restrictions cause children to see the items as “forbidden fruit” and makes them desire it even more because it’s for grown-ups, a sign of being mature, etc (why young kids are so attracted to alcohol, why lower drinking ages result in less alcohol abuse by young people, etc.). I’d prefer not to have age restrictions, but I’m not fundamentally against it.

    The rest are examples of what I thought we were all here fighting for – ending prohibition. A substance is either illegal to acquire and possess or it’s not. There’s no middle ground.

    Now, along with ending prohibition would come extensive, mandatory education about safe drug use. Schools should start teaching children about drugs, how they work, what they do, how to safely use them (and I’m not talking abstinence here), proper injection techniques, etc. at a very young age. Before the children get to the playground at recess, they would ideally have just gotten out of “Drug Use” class. After a half century of propaganda, lies, and misinformation, coupled with the fact that like guns, cars, bricks, bleach – pretty much anything – drugs can be dangerous when used improperly, education is an absolute moral and practical necessity in an imaginary world where drugs are readily available.

    The government would have a vested interest in fostering safe drug use because taxes on drug sales would be the government’s #1 source of revenue. Dead people don’t pay taxes.

    Do you support ending drug prohibition? Or do support the drug war with just the one exception of marijuana?

    It’s all or nothing. Sadly, at this point I’m pretty much convinced that to the vast majority of people who support “ending prohibition” to them it merely means legalizing pot, and nothing more. The drug warriors have it right with everything else – the CSA is absolutely perfect except for the mis-scheduling of one substance. If pot were legalized tomorrow, 90-something percent of the people here would declare victory and go away.

    It’s very disheartening and disappointing when I learn that the people who I thought agreed with me about ending prohibition – for the hundreds of logical, rational, reasonable, fact-based reasons why prohibition is a failure – really only just want to be able to smoke pot, and don’t give a rat’s ass about the overall public policy issues regarding non-marijuana drug prohibition. Are you one of these people?

    I think the people who only support legalizing marijuana, and nothing more, should say so. I have no doubt that in the minds of a lot of people here, “prohibition” is shorthand for “marijuana prohibition” and not “drug prohibition” so when they say they’re against prohibition, they’re only talking about pot. Yeah maybe they are against mandatory minimums and crack/powder sentencing disparities, maybe they support greater access to “treatment” versus incarceration, maybe they have issues with forfeiture abuse, but at the end of the day they all still support arresting and locking up people who are using all the drugs which they have no personal interest in using.

  • kaptinemo

    Bruce, I am the sort of person who essentially wants a roll-back to pre-1914 levels of access for all presently ‘controlled’ substances, as society had vastly less trouble when they were considered ‘yucky old people’s medicine’ by the very children the prohibs claim they wish to ‘protect’.

    In the estimable A Drug War Carol, which I highly recommend, are several panels that illustrate this point perfectly. Starting here, second panel, we see what kind of transactions were common back when we were truly free to purchase what we wanted, when we wanted, without Gub’mint interference.

    I am well aware of how alien that may appear to some…and how it outrages the control-freak ‘parents groups’ who’ve appointed themselves proctors, not only over their own children, but everyone else’s, and take the kind of statements you made about ‘selling heroin to kids’ as a perverted desire to engage in debauchery upon them, rather than to illustrate the same kind of point made in those panels.

    The fact is, with prohibs, we are dealing with a mindset of limited mental capacity, but like nitroglycerin, has to be handled carefully, lest its’ inherent instability and dangerous explosiveness cause us damage. ‘Idiots’ and ‘magazines’.

    You have to talk verrrrrry slooooooowly and clearly to such people, and substitute polysyllabic words with much shorter and simpler ones to maintain their attention span. “Big words’ and ‘concepts’ confuse and frighten them too easily, and they tend to react out of all proportion.

    As to the kind of ‘drug education’ you suggest, I would favor what I received in the early 1970’s when there was still a shred of integrity on the part of the purveyors of that education to provide facts, not propaganda. Because of that, I didn’t touch cannabis until my early 30’s, and then out of medicinal need. I could’ve cared less about it when younger, as I had other things to do in my adolescence that were more interesting. Which is how it should be.

  • kaptinemo, drug prohibition is itself a religion of sorts as it is not based on fact, logic, or reason – it’s based on faith. Faith that drugs are bad and people must be stopped from using them at all costs, no matter the actual facts or collateral damage prohibition causes. Arguing with prohibitionists is like debating religion with a true believer religious fundamentalist. Convincing a drug warrior that drugs should be legalized is like convincing an Islamic fundamentalist that Mohammad was not a prophet and was just a violent, insane, abusive jackass – assuming he even existed at all.

    Now, that Drug War Carol you cited to, notice how it only mentions marijuana? What about tincture of opium (laudanum)? What about cocaine? What about Bayer brand Heroin? The link you cite is just another example of how “drug war” really means “marijuana war” and it disturbs me just as much as the insane stuff coming out of the mouths of the drug warriors. Yes, things should go back to how they were before the Harrison Narcotic Act went into effect in 1915, and that means you’d be able to walk into a store and buy opium, cocaine, heroin – and yes, marijuana/hashish, by the pound without any need for a special, hard to acquire permission slip, without any government recordkeeping of who is buying what, when, and how often. For those who become physically dependent on it, they just go buy more – as with coffee or cigarettes – and they function just fine.

    But I’m really disappointed to see how so much anti-prohibition sentiment is really just about marijuana. Maybe not you (though I can’t quite tell), not Pete, but I think a good majority of people here equate “prohibition” with “marijuana prohibition” and nothing more. The thought of legalizing “the real drugs” has never crossed their minds, and in that respect they are in essence all little drug warriors themselves, they just have one little disagreement with the majority of drug warriors about the scheduling of one drug out of thousands. Other than with respect to pot, they’re all proud little drug warriors.

    Just to be clear, I can appreciate the position that out of all the drugs that are banned, marijuana is the one that least belongs on the list (I don’t agree with that position, but I can appreciate it). But don’t say you’re against prohibition, say you’re against marijuana prohibition and you think everything else is properly prohibited, that you think the CSA is 99.9% perfect, there’s just that one little mistake with marijuana.

  • SmileMonster

    Bruce,

    Your arguments are good, but ridiculous — mostly because they are clouded by your irrational pessimism. (Do you really think the U.S. is going to collapse in two years?) Anyways, I have problems with many of your conclusions and assumptions, but namely this one:

    “I contend these local victories are meaningless as long as federal law still considers it a crime. Federal law always trumps state law . . . . State law always trumps city ordinances.”

    This is simply not true. The United States is set up as a system of hierarchical sovereign governments – federal, state, and local. You are right that no lower sovereign could change — or legalize — a higher sovereigns’ law proscribing some conduct. For example, a city, like Breckenridge, cannot change 21 U.S.C. 841.

    However, there would be no point to our hierarchical system, if a higher sovereign could command a lower sovereign to do it’s will, such as criminalize a plant. If the federal government could do this, states and local governments would be nothing more than an extension of the federal government, and thus, not sovereign at all. See Printz v United States

    If a local government decides not to criminalize possession of marijuana, but possession is still criminal at the state or federal level, we have a problem of competing sovereigns. This is most evident with medical marijuana, where state governments decided not to prosecute certain groups of people who violate federal law. Because the federal government (higher sovereign) cannot force the state (lower sovereign) to do its bidding and prosecute medical marijuana patients, the federal government has two choices — enforce its own laws in that state or stop enforcement.

    As you mentioned, the federal government (and most governments for that matter) are broke. Every state and locality that decides to decriminalize marijuana (or legalize marijuana possession within their own body of laws) is really deciding to no longer finance the enforcement of the higher sovereigns’ laws.

    If enough states and localities stop helping the federal government enforce its laws, the federal government is either going to go broke creating a national police force, or stop enforcing its laws — as is the case with medical marijuana. As more and more lower sovereigns stop cooperating with higher sovereigns, it makes it harder for the higher sovereign to keep choosing to increase enforcement because of monetary costs and other enforcement priorities.

    In Colorado now, two cities have decided to no longer criminalize adult marijuana possession, and thus they have stoped their cooperation with the state government in that area. (Not counting the rogue police officers.) As more cities in Colorado decide to stop cooperating with the state, its going to be harder for the state to keep increasing its enforcement of its marijuana law for two reasons. First is the increased cost of taking on the city’s role in enforcement — Colorado is broke. The second reason is messaging. A municipality refusing to help a state enforce a law it disagrees with is analogous to a municipality voting against that law. The more cities that publicly oppose a law, the more undemocratic it appears when the state enforces its will on the cities.

    In conclusion, you are wrong to say local initiatives are meaningless. In a reality that is not clouded by pessimism, local initiatives are a vital tool in public persuasion while making it financially harder for a state to keep enforcing laws the localities disagree with, whether that be marijuana, immigration, or gay rights.

  • Dreau Preau

    Just to clarify, I wasn’t saying that the decriminalization in Brekenridge isn’t a meaningful step, my only quarrel is with terminology, which, in my opinion, has importance when discussing politics and policy.

  • kaptinemo

    Bruce, if I haven’t been clear enough, I will be so now: I believe all currently illegal drugs should be legal. All of them. Yes, even meth. Leave no niches for the criminal element to hide in by segregating the ‘good’ drugs such as cannabis from the ‘bad’ drugs such as meth or heroin (or commercially available SSRIs like Prozac, as I consider such as being just as bad), for the fact is that the vast majority of people who use illicit drugs use cannabis, they want cannabis, mainly cannabis, and little else.

    Very few people actively seek the harder stuff…but if they want it, and understand the consequences of addiction, and are willing to pay that price, then I will not stand in their way. I will step aside and let someone Hell-bent on self-termination achieve it so long as they don’t try to take me along with them.

    I realize how that looks to some, as if I am lacking in compassion, but that couldn’t be further from the truth. Because of my background, education, experiences, etc. I am constantly being forced to ‘look at the big picture’, and the ‘big picture’ as it stands is that it is faux compassion of the worst possible sort that has landed us in this mess in the first place. True compassion also requires a degree of clarity, and that in turn requires that one take the position that vastly more harm has been done by that faux compassion (as evinced by our drug laws) than the drugs themselves.

    I see the impact of our insane laws both upon society and upon the individual, and seek the balance between them, and that means that if someone is bound and determined to fill their grave ahead of schedule, and no law will dissuade them, and no suasion on my part will deflect them from their course, then in order to preserve the rights and liberties of the remainder, that individual intent on self-destruction must be allowed the opportunity to carry it out. Because we are all living with the enormous cost to society of the effort to prevent just that. And this society can no longer afford it, not monetarily, not civilly, and dare I say it, not spiritually, for we have gone far afield from what the Founders intended that we should be, namely, a truly free people. The State was intended to be servant, not master, but master it has become, and master it wishes to remain, and it uses that faux compassion as a basis to harness us.

    In conclusion, I’d like to again quote Frederick Douglass: “No man can put a chain about the ankle of his fellow man without at last finding the other end fastened about his own neck.” The DrugWar is such a chain, for it has throttled our liberties while claiming to ‘protect’ our lives, and thus making liberty valueless while threatening that life. The spiritual cost to this nation as a result has been enormous: we allow such inroads upon our freedoms and lives as government presently makes courtesy of the DrugWar when our forebears would have risen up in arms and revolted against it.

    As a result, most citizens are little more than chattel, now. But for those who esteem liberty to be more valuable than life itself, that Remnant, they who know what we have lost and seek to regain it, they know that being so is to be the voice in the wilderness, warning of impending disaster, and being spurned for their efforts, even as that disaster approaches. To a greater or lesser extant, that covers many drug law reformers, whether they are even aware of it or not.

    Sorry for being so long-winded; I’ve been accused before of being a ‘wordy barstid’ and I stand guilty as charged. But our opponents pay lip service to the ideals of freedom while busily undermining it at every opportunity, while we are attempting to regain that freedom they have stolen under cover of that faux compassion, and I know they read here, so this was a knife-blade across their eyes for their hypocrisy. May they bleed crimson tears…

  • kaptinemo

    SmileMonster, thank you for that masterful analysis on the ‘sovereign nature of governments’. It was better delivered than I could, yet is also my contention. And as we are finding, what happened in Breckenridge is being considered elsewhere in CO…as predictable as an eastern sunrise. No municipality wishes to miss out on the potential financial windfall that Breckenridge will claim beginning 1 January 2010. Thus, eventually, individual States, and then blocs of them, will follow suit.

    For, as one State begins to reap those rewards, and citizens of other States seek to avail themselves of the opportunity to enjoy cannabis in peace without penalty by traveling (and possibly ’emigrating’) there, spending their money there and enriching CO’s tax coffers, it will become very clear that a State that does not re-legalize cannabis will quickly descend into penury. And money has always spoken louder than ideology; it’s ‘the American Way’, unfortunately.

    The wall of the dike has been breached, and no amount of DrugWarrior ‘Little Dutch Boys’ can stop what’s coming. They only have so many thumbs, and they’re facing the economic equivalent of the Johnstown Flood. and they have as much chance of stopping this now as the poor citizens of Johnstown did their own inundation.

  • DdC

    From the perspective of the non user, the media and the cops.
    XTC, heroin, morphine, crack, pcp and meth have victims. Ganja has bullshit, hemp prohibition is the total meltdown of rational functions. True aspirin, booze and prescriptions kill probably more than illicit. But so do hospitals, cars and cigarettes. Religion is the driving force of the non reality but until it is totally clear as to why it is illegal. Logic won’t make sense. Same as being right but not the best coarse of action. In Utopia of total truth and contentment, without fear of cages or being fired. It would be right and logical to discuss all vices. Prostitution and Gambling are money makers, not logical. Religion again is the ad agency, the promoters. The corporate politician, campaign financed by companies, to bid for companies and assured employment after serving enough terms to legislate profits. Fascism. But Libertarians are notorious for living in castles in the clouds. Backing money at every turn and scape goating the innocents while covering for the corporate interest. Ganja must be bad or it wouldn’t be illegal, especially this long.

    Hemp and RxGanja are part of the selling points. Totally pious attitudes of purity, they should be legal because its your Constitutional right to ingest what ever you want. That is true. But do you think the censored educational system will level the playing field and teach both sides? No, it would jeopardize their profit margin. So you’re dealing with totally illiterates concerning drugs. At best maybe a toke or two of a doobie then felt funny. Many of the people never bought a bag in their lives. Always bumming joints and hanging in joint circles.

    Skin color doesn’t mean a damn thing either and look how long that took. Women couldn’t vote. I have seen places where certain colors couldn’t enter, or sit or enjoy the festivities. Not that long ago and not eliminated by a long shot. Yankees had just as much segregation as the south, even more after the civil rights act. Simply by tying up the real estate market and legislating only residents can go to the schools or swimming pools. Still lots of imperfections in the Ganjawar.

    It is the Ganjawar because there is no reason it should be restricted. No victims. Most arrests are for pot. Most junkies become plea bargain snitches. Hemp is the majority of “marijuana” eradications. For a reason, bullshit. Gossip to keep the debate off the table. Plus the simple fact that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. How many crackheads are trying to legalize?

    Come on dude. Like blaming the poor for taxes when most is wasted on wars and corporate subsidies and bailouts. The poor spend the money locally, the fascist take it away. The workers pay for it. Its a corporate war and until you want to stop investing in fossil fools, trees, Pharmaceuticals, cotton, pesticides, plastic, paper, wood and 25,000 other products in 1937. All in competition with Rockefeller Oil, Dupont plastic fiber and Hearst paper mills. The booze distributors produced the “documentary” Reefer Madness. Plus the infrastructure not needed on Ganja. Its the money, nothing but the money.

    What can you make with a pile of heroin? Hemp is versatile enough to provide alternatives to many status weird choices. Plus as a Naturalist I can’t advocate fake entheogens. White Powders suck for a reason, not calvina gossip. Medicinally for pain, heroin is 80+ times faster relief than morphine. My guess is heroin is euphoric, while morphine is a depressant. Or deterrent to using it in the drug thugs eyes. I suspect the church didn’t like sick and dying people smiling or laughing while they were sick and dying. Sent the wrong message to the kids. They might Gateway if they thought being sick was fun.

    The Woman’s Christian Temperance League was planning “strategery” against the heathen rum dabblers while sipping tea laced with Laudanum, an Opiate. Look at how many do speed and then rant and rave about meth. Giving it to kids for being hyper? Look at the food pyramid, totally corporately sponsored. Creating obesity for the meat and grain and sugar mills. They shelved cannabis tumor research for christ sakes.

    They shelved solar panels too. It took Ralph Nader many hours to get cars fairly safe. It makes no sense to protest clean air and water.Yet corporate lapdogs can’t stand it for some reason Libertarians don’t see the Liberty in being Healthy. Or the Constitutional right of Life is understood, but not the prerequisites like shelter, food, clothing and transportation. All provided by Ganja and Hemp.

    This is why the Ganjawar product is sold. Heroin and the other drugs with victims provide statistics and snitches. Statistics that go across the board including Ganja in the array or hobgoblins, religiosity and corporate sponsorship. When you state the obvious and neglect the who, what, when, where, and especially why. Its like hearing the drug worriers spew the same old boring crap.

    Yes in Utopia there is no Band Aids or Factories making them and stores selling them. They are unnecessary. Corporations don’t have citizens rights in Utopia, to lobby and coerce towns. Nothing treating misery would be for profit. Salaries but even the thought of getting wealthy on the misery, leads to maintaining the misery. Even creating misery just to treat. That is the Ganjawar, the cornerstone of the Drug War.

    Follow the Money and get real. You can’t fix 200 years of careful fuckuping over night. But reality is the only place to start. We still need band aids and taxes need to be spent on them. But prevention and cures would lower the taxes, but also the profits. Do we want our taxes spent on us or International Corporations, also sheltering their responsibility in off shore accounts and anti drug propaganda and Ganjawar investments. That money goes away and doesn’t circulate in the community. Ideals are great destinations but terrible roadmaps. The Libertarians and the Greens need to get their shit together and merge. Now at best a third party only sways one of the two NeoCoservokrats.

    So enough about white powders with no value outside of getting loaded. Ganja is the drug war. Its the only thing they really want to keep out. I mean really, do you know any republicans that care about junkies? They want them to spread the “fag” disease. Thats why Boosh Sr stopped the IND schwag program. Klintoon pushed thalidomide as an appetite stimulant over Ganja. I find it naive to even think these moneysluts care about anything but profits. What if these nazi offspring still think of Americans as the enemy? But instead of fighting them, they just poison the food and sell them drugs to treat it.

    Deterring natural alternatives like Rockefeller producing the booze prohibition long enough to rid the farmers of their ethanol stills. All that trouble its not a wonder they wouldn’t let Hemp take their profits. Although they never banned Hemp or RxGanja in 1937. Boggs and Nixon finally outlawed it but no one ever started manufacturing after 1937 except for the brief Hemp for Victory campaign when they lost Manilla to Japan. Then outlaw homegrown free herbal relief. Sure doesn’t sound like something a Patriot would do.

    Ganja/Hemp

    Shadow of the Swastika Elkhorn Manifesto

    Wall street’s Spontaneous Abortionists

    Drugwar Lies Linked to Schizophrenia

    The Ganjawar Fraud

  • SmileMonster:

    “Federal law always trumps state law . . . . State law always trumps city ordinances.”

    This is simply not true.

    I’d suggest reading the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution. I agree that the Federal government cannot order lower level governments to do things (though they can coerce them with conditional funding). That’s not what we’re talking about here. Yes, the states don’t need to have their own controlled substances acts and the federal government can’t force states to control substances. But as long as it is illegal under federal law, it doesn’t make one bit of difference that it’s not/no longer illegal under state or local law. In fact, you can be prosecuted TWICE for the same crime – once by the state for possessing a controlled substance, and then again by the federal government for the same act. It doesn’t even violate double jeopardy, if you can believe that.

    My point is not that the federal government can force the states to make pot illegal. It can’t. My point is that as long as pot is illegal under federal law, it’s status under state law is entirely irrelevant. If you possess it, you commit a (federal) crime. If it makes you feel better that you’ve committed only one crime instead of two (or three – local city crimes), you’re optimism is extremely misplaced.

    And yes, I do believe the federal government will collapse within the next 2 years or so. This is not based on some Mayan 2012 Nostradamus astrological crap, it just seems self evident to me that our system has become too corrupt, with too many conflicts of interest to survive. It’s going downhill fast. It will not be a violent collapse – I’m not saying there will be riots and mobs smashing and blowing up things. one day, the federal government will simply close down due to lack of money, and it won’t reopen again. Ever.

    We’ll just have to disagree on whether my pessimism is irrational. I think we simply disagree on the degree of my pessimism, not whether it’s rational or not.

    Kaptinemo: fair enough, I’m glad to hear you’re not one of the “pot only” people. I didn’t think you were, but it wasn’t entirely clear.

  • DdC: the versatility of hemp is just another in a long litany of reasons why drug prohibition is wasteful and nonproductive. But the fact that you can’t make as many useful things with coca leaves as you can with hemp misses the point entirely. And who knows what amazing alternate uses for currently banned chemicals, and the banned plants that produce some of them, that we’d discover if we were free to study and tinker around with them.

    I’d suggest if we’re going to legalize only one type of drug, it should be opiates. Due to the drug war, millions of people are suffering from horrible chronic pain which they can’t get adequately treated due to overbearing C-II restrictions, DEA persecution of pain management doctors, and the resultant chilling effect that causes on physicians’ willingness to prescribe painkillers. Additionally, opium is the #1 cash crop for middle-eastern terrorists. Legalizing all mu-agonists would instantly deprive these terrorists of billions of dollars. Opium grows in places other than Afghanistan.

    Far more people need painkillers than glaucoma medicine. Not saying marijuana is not a legitimate medication, but insofar as you’re making the case that marijuana is the drug most worthy of being decriminalized, I disagree. I’d start with opiates/opioids.

  • DdC

    DdC: the versatility of hemp is just another in a long litany of reasons why drug prohibition is wasteful and nonproductive.

    The first and primary reason prohibition exists, wasteful and nonproductive is in the eye of the profiteer. A trillion wastefully spent arresting Ganja tokers – Is a billion made in taxable income. Everything else is gravy. The law provides the money. RxGanja and Hemp were not prohibited in 37, just taken out of the market place competition. The AMA was excluded from the decision, but at that time they were against it being totally banned. Same with Hemp, it was not worth the time cost and effort to obtain a stamp. But it was Nixon’s lies to exclude it with the CSA. For the same reason. Profits on the corporate synthetics. The religion is only a tool of the Fascists. Same as the media and “selected” politicians. You see it as you were taught in school. Its evil. Or as most atheist, afraid you might catch a spirit or something.

    Ganja and Hemp were not taught therefore you assume its hype or just excuses to smoke dope without getting busted. I’ve had no problem in 40 years. Basic caution and having a job and my own place helps. I know good people growing pot and as long as the risk is there its not wrong for them to profit. They don’t hurt people. Same as the millions who shoot heroin and have a good time, or maintain their addiction without being a burden on society. Caused by prohibitions street dope, adulterations and the stupidest thing since white bread outlawing clean needle exchanges. As clinics can be brought into legitimacy treating junkies the same as diabetics. I’d predict the garbage dope would evaporate if good quality Pharmaceuticals were available. I’d stay with Ganja. I have access now and choose to abstain.

    But the fact that you can’t make as many useful things with coca leaves as you can with hemp misses the point entirely.

    I never said coca leaves, that is a pretty useful plant. Not as versatile as Hemp, but worthy of legitimizing.

    Coca, Bolivia, and Law 1008

    The Pope used to make coca wine. The “point” you’re repetitiously making, was dull last month. We get it, yes you are right its our sovereign right to tattoo our bodies and shoot as much dope as a syringe can hold. But without a dictator and total national socialism its a pipe dream and used by drug worriers to add to their gossip.

    Of coarse we want Ganja legal for our own damn business. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t medicinal. I smoke several doobies a day for almost 40 years but that doesn’t mean the tensile strength of Hemp isn’t greater than trees. Or the cellulose from crude oil can’t be replaced by the cellulose from Hemp. Or the Pharmaceuticals, without the binders and fillers and bottles and boxes and laboratories and side effects selling more of the same. Ganja has no infrastructure. We can build one as the buyers clubs prove. But we can also grow it without any interference.

    No profit, no tax. Therefore no reason not to outlaw it, if that much money is at stake. These are the people who sends kids to die in deserts for oil, would they lie? The only reason for the cold war or the Ganjawar or Colombia Iraq or funding Thailand’s murders is profit. By people who obviously don’t give a rats ass about caging Americans, terrorizing sick and elderly Americans. Profit and some sicko maniacal inbred dysfunction.

    And who knows what amazing alternate uses for currently banned chemicals, and the banned plants that produce some of them, that we’d discover if we were free to study and tinker around with them.

    But they’re not illegal dude. Opiates and Meth and Cocaine are still legal for research, has been, its spent. Heroin was legal, may still be in Europe. Only Ganja, RxGanja and Hemp are schedule#1 narcotic drugs. Crack, pcp embalming fluid or any of the physically damaging chemical poisons should be with education same as driving tests. But these poisons on the street are only prohibition drugs, do to availability, statistics they provide, used in lower income areas and cheap. A substitute for “recreation” including heroin or cocaine. Addiction is a red herring.

    Coca Cola still grows coca leaves. Cops still pop white crosses on stake outs and the Military go go pills. Only Ganja and Hemp, with no victims, no hang overs. The least harmful substance in the entire Pharmacopeia is totally banned from even discussing it. Now thats some might fine Constitutional abuses. That has nothing to do with anything to save the kiddies. Thats total flim flam. And until we deal with this reality and get it out of the way. How can we take anything serious. If its all ulterior motives and say what you have to to sell the jalopy. Worthless spending of energy.

    I’d suggest if we’re going to legalize only one type of drug, it should be opiates. Due to the drug war, millions of people are suffering from horrible chronic pain which they can’t get adequately treated due to overbearing C-II restrictions, DEA persecution of pain management doctors, and the resultant chilling effect that causes on physicians’ willingness to prescribe painkillers.

    True, but not my patients. There are heavy DEA restrictions on Opiates and this was Henry Hyde and Nelson afraid of Kevorkian killing off old people. Teabogs bought it now I reckon its true, they let Veterans suffer needlessly. Some are Insurance restrictions and extras have to be bought out of pocket. But there are underground clinics, more professionals dealing with reality until the politics catch up. But you miss the point. The Ganjawar is also why they’re illegal. Its what pays the salaries and profits and without it, there is no war. You think they could muster a DEAth army to save junkies? No its Ganja that is evil to millions, and dangerous because its almost undetectable. That means it isn’t inebriating. Scam man, just a scam. Restrictions on doctors prescribing “legal” drugs is the responsibility of the AMA to protect them. They are in the same Fascist circles as the FDA and Ag Chemical corporations. Interchangeable. That I’d support changing back to checks and balances and stop the DEAth meddling.

    The AMA today is an insurance scam running doctors out of business unless they pay out of their ass for malpractice insurance. Another small minority of abuse clustering everyone into the mix. Legitimate malpractice now gets by because its all done by lawyers. For profit medicine neglects the patients. Technically they don’t even need patients. They can treat numbers and get the same results, and profits. 40 years of Ganja I haven’t seen a doctor since they made house calls, Except for food poisoning once and a chiropractor after twisting a back muscle pipe fitting a boiler.

    As a hospice and Neurological HHA 20 years I have spent more than a persons fair share of time in hospitals advocating for patients and with nurses and doctors discussing patients, Ganja and the system. But thats all separate or parallel to the fact that restrictions on legal drugs such as opiates is political within the industry, not the streets or “prohibition”. Pain meds aren’t banned. Pain meds are abused and can be dangerous. Doctor junkies over prescribing is true. Not enough to warrant suffering patients. But real shit, not made up hobgoblins as with Ganja. It shows the extent of integrity and ethics on the part of the medical governing body. Like the Ganjawar shows the creepiness of cops prisons and rehab drug worriers discarding Americans for job security. Internal fascism. But Ganja or Narcotic burlap, is fantasy. Until the simple logic is contemplated, and it won’t be in censored school books or on corporate media outlets. Then its a good cause far off in a distant galaxy where righteous people make the decisions.

    Remove the bogus CSA classification of Ganja, RxGanja and Hemp are free by default. Without Ganja, RxGanja and Hemp the drug war can not sustain itself. Without the US there would be a steady collapse of prohibitions around the globe. Any other scenario it lingers on like decriminalization. Legalize opiates and the drug war still keeps the meat and potatoes to profit on. Legalize RxGanja or just Hemp and not much will change as time since prop 215 has also proven. Buyers clubs are convenient for republicans. Also expensive and the risk of entering your information in a data base is haunting citizens. The first thing the DEAth confiscate is the computers with client lists. Then the cash, then the plants. I wouldn’t be surprised if they made us wear pot leaves on our sleeves like previous stars of David.

    Additionally, opium is the #1 cash crop for middle-eastern terrorists.

    Some of the best Hash came from Afghanistan. Hell Ganja original came from their. Probably as Hemp until humans started gardening it raising the theca from the less protein separating the males from pollination. Farmers could grow Ganja and employ locals to make Hash too. China is a lesson in Opium. Nice dreams but if you hookah and fall off your donkey it ain’t the same as 60 miles an hour down the highway. Opium and Cocaine should remain the drug of Emperors. Or medicinal. Not caging people but not condoning it without education and proper environments. QA is essential and mostly done with inspection and quality raw materials. Hard on the streets with anything requiring an infrastructure. Stills or make shift labs can be harmful, and paraphernalia is cumbersome. Ganja’s a plant.

    Unless maybe you think buying their crop or Monsanto over spraying it with Agent Green 5x Roundup, slightly less than Agent Orange they made in Nam. or anything that will intimidate the farmers as much as the Taliban. Been there done that… Bush’s Faustian Deal With the Taliban $43 mil for the opium crop in May 2001. Wonder what happened to that money? And the US doesn’t get its heroin supply from Afghani’s, they supply Europe. We use China and Mexico some South American. The only thing we need in Afghanistan is the Unocal pipeline to “take care of surrounding countries oil reserves”.

    Legalizing all mu-agonists would instantly deprive these terrorists of billions of dollars. Opium grows in places other than Afghanistan.

    I only recognize USA! Qaeda. These other “terrorists” are like the commies I never saw either. But creating a demand by legalizing would have to be everywhere, or very bloody. It would legalize dangerous substances without an educational system, still leaving a black market for kids and countries taught to well by DEAth Merchants wanting the prohibition for profits and slave labor.

    Ganja and Hemp have no overdoses to worry about. Education is minimal for usage. Environment the same, not much paraphernalia let alone the infrastructure and profits of the infrastructure. So “legalizing” opiates that are already legal for doctors? Just to ward off “terrorists” that the same Ganjawar mongers waging a war on Americans say are terrorists. Oh ya that 911 thing with a million unanswered questions, Juries still out on that one. I think Monsanto and Cliarence Thomas are greater terrorists than Ben Laden. The Boosh Klan, bastard son Klintoon and Cheney are worse than Hitler and Pol Pot and Lenin. Thats just my opinion on draconian policy and fascist actions they’ve committed. Not ad hominem on GOPerverts.

    Far more people need painkillers than glaucoma medicine.

    Of all the medications, unless its multiple symptoms I’d probably advise the Pharmaceuticals for Glaucoma. If you’re in a friendly user environment with adequate cloning for your particular needs availability, then go for it. But 100’s of “treatments” and preventives is why its illegal. You don’t get it. The Ganjawar is what is being sold for profits. The money to conduct the war comes from taxes spent by corporate lobbyists that aren’t even concerned with the safety of users. Just profit. Like I said, More victims is better propaganda. Ganja has none but it is the infrastructure of the Drug War and without it the war collapses. So yes legalize heroin for medicine and get the DEAth the fuck out of medicine and have the balls of Oregon and let people decide on assisted termination. But no one can justify in any moral sense of the word a cop organization preventing doctors from prescribing pain relief. Thats Nazism, beyond Fascism. Thats also not typical street drugs.

    Not saying marijuana is not a legitimate medication, but insofar as you’re making the case that marijuana is the drug most worthy of being decriminalized, I disagree. I’d start with opiates/opioids.http://www.drugwarrant.com/2009/11/legalized/comment-page-1/#comment-3675

    Granny Storm Crow’s MMJ List

    Medicinal Opiates are legal dude. Just not heroin or raw poppy juice. Bayer aspirin with heroin was as common as Turkish Hash Parlors at the Worlds Fair. The heroin proved to be harmful if taking to much, the Ganja was found to be harmful to Rockefeller Dupont and Mellon profits. Compared to Ganja nothing compares. Nothing with its virtues is as prohibited either. Maybe Nukes but that ain’t getting high, its getting cancer. Think the private market should sell nuke powered cars? Almost afraid of the answer.

  • DdC

    That’s A trillion wastefully spent arresting Ganja tokers – Is a Trillion made in taxable income.

  • SmileMonster

    Bruce:

    The following statement is completely illogical considering more than 90% of drug arrests occur at the state level.

    “My point is that as long as pot is illegal under federal law, it’s status under state law is entirely irrelevant.”

    How can you say fixing 90% of the problem is irrelevant?

  • Bluntzz

    i don’t think it should be legalized becauze, if it was i and much others would lose a bunch of cash, And i love my cash.

    Although it would stop it being a gateway because the only reason it is a gateway is because most people take it for a ‘hit’ and once you have overcome the initial ‘hit’ of weed it starts becoming more a lifestyle or hobbie. Whereas it being illegal means most people get tired of that and want something bigger, or their dealer will offer something ‘better’ or and probbaly more expensive. But you cannot imagine a shop owner saying ‘you want a better hit?’ when you buy a joint at the newsagents!

    At the end of the day though, if the government was in control of weed, it would shortlty get shit. It is worth more than Gold to the pound atm. The same amount you’d pay for an ounce of ganje can get you a ton of crops like corn for eg. Literally.

    The government would make it fucking expensive and you’d have to pay a lot to get anything that isnt fucking weak!

    I’d love to see those ‘Cutters Choice’ packets becoming ‘stoners choice’ though XD

    bless.

  • Bluntzz

    i don’t think it should be legalized becauze, if it was i and much others would lose a bunch of cash, And i love my cash.

    Although it would stop it being a gateway because the only reason it is a gateway is because most people take it for a ‘hit’ and once you have overcome the initial ‘hit’ of weed it starts becoming more a lifestyle or hobbie. Whereas it being illegal means most people get tired of that and want something bigger, or their dealer will offer something ‘better’ or and probbaly more expensive. But you cannot imagine a shop owner saying ‘you want a better hit?’ when you buy a joint at the newsagents!

    At the end of the day though, if the government was in control of weed, it would shortlty get shit. It is worth more than Gold to the pound atm. The same amount you’d pay for an ounce of ganje can get you a ton of crops like corn for eg. Literally.

    The government would make it fucking expensive and you’d have to pay a lot to get anything that isnt fucking weak!

    I’d love to see those ‘Cutters Choice’ packets becoming ‘stoners choice’ though XD

    bless..

  • Jesse

    @ Bluntzz

    Even if the government tryed to make it expensive…It’s not like corn where you need a whole field to create a personal supply.

    The government will never be able to make it too expensive because it just grows too easily.