Driving simulator study – will we get science or junk science?

I’ve been waiting to hear about Iowa driving simulator studies for a while now.

Time reports: How Much Does Marijuana Impact Your Driving?

The researchers looked at 250 parameters of driving ability, but this paper focused on three in particular: weaving within the lane, the number of times the car left the lane, and the speed of the weaving. While alcohol had an effect on the number of times the car left the lane and the speed of the weaving, marijuana did not. Marijuana did show an increase in weaving. Drivers with blood concentrations of 13.1 ug/L THC, the psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, showed increase weaving that was similar to those with a .08 breath alcohol concentration, the legal limit in most states.

The fact that this paper focused on three of the 250 parameters of driving ability means that we’ll probably be getting a lot more of these in the future.

The concern to me is not learning actual science, but more often how the science is presented or skewed (junk science). I don’t doubt that the science at the National Advanced Driving Simulator in Iowa is rigorous. But I do have concerns about how it will be used, particularly based on the agenda of its funder (NIDA) and its lead researcher (Marilyn Huestis).

So, basically, this particular paper looked at SDLP (standard deviations of lateral position) and concluded that cannabis didn’t have nearly the effect of alcohol, even at fairly high levels, and yet, according to the researcher:

Huestis believes that the 5 ug/L limit is not strict enough, particularly when you take into account those with low tolerance.

Of course, also not mentioned in the article is a small point that was brought up in the study:

“SDLP is not directly validated to predict crash risk”

Ah, yes. SDLP results don’t necessarily equate to unsafe driving. It is simply an interesting variable worth looking at. That didn’t, however, stop the researcher from giving the opinion that marijuana driving laws are too lax. We’re likely to get a lot of that.

I remember when I first heard about the long-term simulator study in Iowa: University of Iowa testing effects of pot on drivers (the date of the article online wrong, it was actually September 9, 2012). I wrote to Marilyn Huestis back then, but never got a response.

What I wanted to know was whether the simulator would assess actual overall safety of driving or whether it would simply focus on elements of driving that were different. For example, stoned drivers are known to slow down because they tend to be aware of their condition (much more so than those on alcohol), but a simulator test could well interpret that caution as failure.

Based on the first results to come from the simulator, I think we have our answer.

I had additional concerns about Huestis based on this article back in 2013:

While the majority of scientists say the effects of marijuana dissipate relatively quickly, Huestis reports that both THC and impaired performance linger in the brains of daily users for weeks after their last puff. The chronic users Huestis observed were still excreting THC from their tissues even after a month of abstinence, and did not respond as well as the control group in psychomotor and divided attention tasks.

“Individuals may say they haven’t used cannabis in a day, a week, whatever—but guess what? Your brain is still recovering and changing from that abstinence,” said Huestis in a phone interview. “Some people might ask what that has to do with real driving ability. Well, now we have data to show that it affects psychomotor impairment.”
Huestis sees support for her work in several studies done throughout Europe, and Australia, but to those familiar with the bulk of the literature, Huestis’s claims have left many shaking their heads—especially considering the influence it would have on policy.

According to Heustis’s conclusions, all regular cannabis consumers—including patients who have demonstrated a medical necessity—would automatically become a traffic risk in the eyes of the law even after weeks of abstinence.

Yeah, that’s not someone I trust to present cannabis-related science fairly.

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65 Responses to Driving simulator study – will we get science or junk science?

  1. divadab says:

    Where are the studies of the effects of prozac on driving? Valium? Hydrocodone?

    This is prohibitionist logic – apply an unrealistic standard only to cannabis in order to prohibit it while not applying the standard to pharmaceutical drugs. These people are not scientists but rather inquisitors seeking a pre-ordained conclusion. They can fuck off.

    • Freeman says:

      Exactly right! Where are the studies on stupid drivers, or poorly-trained drivers (pretty much everyone these days – driver’s ed ain’t what it used to be)? I mean, just look around you — what’s the compliance rate on proper use of turn signals? And by that I mean signalling all LANE CHANGES as well as turns, appropriately IN ADVANCE of any maneuver such as slowing to turn or moving toward another lane. I don’t mean signalling halfway into your right-angle turn as an afterthought and no signal at all for lane changes, for the low percentage of drivers who will use a turn signal at all. This one failure alone, common to drivers in general regardless of impairment, is every bit as dangerous from a crash-risk perspective as 5 ug/L TCH, and probably a lot more. Huestis, prove me wrong!

      If we decide that the equivalent to impairment from a 5 ug/L TCH concentration is the cutoff for acceptably safe driving, we’d have to ban 80% of drivers from the road (90% in Kansas ;>)) to do it honestly. But then, history shows again and again that honesty has never been a consideration in these debates.

    • Psychomotor impairment could come from hundreds if not thousands of pharmaceutical drugs and over the counter preparations (try some benadryl). There is definite prejudice here – “Individuals may say they haven’t used cannabis in a day, a week, whatever—but guess what? Your brain is still recovering and changing from that abstinence,”.

      Sounds like Nora.

      What is NIDA doing in the driving business?

      Only one result concerning marijuana in this study could support NIDA’s continued existence.

      They are the payee’s here, right? This stinks. My money is on junk science. Ask any bookie for the odds on this one.

  2. Servetus says:

    A driving simulator and an actual motoring experience are two different things. If set and setting are critical to the marijuana experience, as they are to all drug experiences, then different results are possible in different settings.

    I question the simulator’s computer simulation. Is the driver operating a simulated Chevrolet, or a simulated Mercedes? Because a Mercedes Benz will hold the road so well the car will practically drive itself. The number of turns of the steering wheel lock-to-lock is another factor in handling. Some steering systems are twitchy, and will pick up smaller arm and hand movements. So if you see someone weaving in a Benz, you can rightly conclude that person is really f*%ked up. Guessing alcohol is at fault will likely be correct.

    Also, the fact that marijuana effects dissipate very quickly is not being emphasized in the study. Are we talking about a mere 40-minute window of opportunity for police to apprehend drivers who have consumed marijuana? What if 20-minutes of that is used up getting ready to go somewhere? Instantaneous detectability of non-metabolized THC blood levels is not the issue, unless one’s only goal is to arrest marijuana consumers. Actual driving performance is the issue. In a real world setting, if marijuana actually resulted in a lot of weaving drivers, we would see cops pulling a lot of people over for DUIs while not being able to arrest them for any detectable alcohol consumption, and we don’t hear anything about this phenomenon.

    In non-simulated testing, and with a non-NIDA, objective observer not wanting to tease out specific test results, the distinctions between driving while on alcohol and driving while on marijuana have always been very clear. Comparisons of this sort are easy to set up, distinguish, and evaluate. Alcohol-versus-marijuana road tests have been performed and featured in auto magazines like Car & Driver since the 70s. The tests rarely get government attention because the results always favor marijuana over alcohol. Abstract simulations aren’t needed. They’re too easily manipulated on a computer. Real world testing is required by researchers whose future employment doesn’t depend on achieving a particular research result.

  3. Frank W. says:

    There’s a new listicle on that very subject on my Yahoo page. I believe this listicle was the intended goal of all that expensive research. Accounts were adjusted, information was transferred, meetings were taken, and Drugwar Inc. continues planning future revenue streams.

  4. Francis says:

    While alcohol had an effect on the number of times the car left the lane and the speed of the weaving, marijuana did not. Marijuana did show an increase in [within-the-lane] weaving [a variable that has not been “directly validated to predict crash risk”].

    Jesus, but those guys are some serious control freaks.

    Prohibitionists: “Stay in your lane, potheads!”
    Us: “Um… we are staying in our lanes.”
    Prohibitionists: “Er… well, then stay more in your lane!”

  5. DdC says:

    Reports of Cannabis and driving impairment increase dramatically as elections or legislation’s get closer.

    Cannabis use and Driving

    Another tax paid manipulation of data. Fraud is a terrible thing to waste taxes on. Another way to extract money from citizens paying fines or forced rehabs. This slimy business the drug worriers partake in should be seen as no less than treason. How many have been removed from positions on bogus drug testing? Not to mention the years of stalling legalization and denial due to these illegitimate studies. I’m suing the bitch.

    Government Study Casts Doubt on Legal Definitions of Stoned Driving
    Simulator tests also confirm that marijuana impairs drivers less than alcohol.

    Drivers with blood concentrations of 13.1 ug/L THC, the psychoactive ingredient in cannabis, showed increase weaving that was similar to those with a .08 breath alcohol concentration, the legal limit in most states. For reference, 13.1 ug/L THC is more than twice the 5 ug/L numeric limit in Washington and Colorado.

    The Effect of Urine Manipulation on Substance Abuse Testing
    Many of the products have even no effect whatsoever on the test result, and their marketing is simply fraud. On the other hand, the results of urine tests might be affected inadvertently and without any fraudulent intent. Table 1 shows a number of products that, when consumed, might affect the results of urine tests.

    Drug mishandling may have tainted 40,000 cases

    What would the results be after consuming any of these legal drugs? Legally driving while delusional or having thoughts of killing oneself. Confusion and loss of memory are not recommended for drivers. Drunkenness or difficulty with coordination and a feeling like you might pass out are not subjected to a smidgeon of the testing for Ganja. Such an obvious one sided farce with truth once again left at the starting gate.

    Drug Worriers preferred methods of treatment…
    delusions, dementia, lack of feeling or emotion, thoughts of killing oneself, confusion, shakiness, lack of emotion, loss of memory, Behavior change similar to drunkenness, convulsions, (seizures), changes in patterns and rhythms of speech, clumsiness or unsteadiness, difficulty with coordination, shakiness and unsteady walk, feeling sad or empty, inability to sit still, difficulty with concentration, drowsiness, mood or behavior changes, very stiff (rigid) muscles, high fever, sweating, confusion, fast or uneven heartbeats, feeling like you might pass out; agitation, hallucinations, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, loss of appetite…

  6. claygooding says:

    Meanwhile we are still waiting on the NIDA/DEA oversight research by CMCR using MS dirt weed on subjects in simulators:


    Impact of Repeated Cannabis Treatments on Driving Abilities



    The full results of this study are in preparation. No preliminary results are available at this time.

    If anyone has any pull with CMCR it would be neat after three years for them to at least publish the findings,,,since it was OK”D by the DEA/NIDA and NHS if it showed any impairment it would have hit the front page prior to it being published..

    • Servetus says:

      Great political faux pas by the Blue Meanies. Growers in the Emerald Triangle and benefactors thereof will now be far more likely to support and vote for CA recreational MJ legalization in 2016. I’m less worried about Prohibition whenever the prohibidiots themselves wield a wrecking ball against their own fragile empire.

    • DdC says:

      ☛ Just the illegal marijuana plants confiscated in California by law enforcement in recent years — between 2 million and 4 million annually

      So instead of not interfering or the very least lesser evil of supplementing the people, especially lower income sick and elderly. The Sea Haag and her Flying Monkey’s destroy it and hold hands and sing the green beret song like they’re some kind of self appointed hero’s. Despicable!

      Still love to believe their mission is to destroy “marihuana” regardless of how many lives they destroy in the process. Last I heard a Citizens Initiative trumps any SB by politicians and a State Act trumps political appeasement “Guidelines”. So Prop 215 should exempt CA law enforcement from any eradication’s or arrests. It’s Federal jurisdiction and they only budget for over 100 plants. Obama has lowered the priorities even more in states with laws on the books, such as Prop 215.

      Renegade Vigilantes terrorizing sick people are not Police, they are egotistical thugs who’s time is well past up. Behind the hype and glorified headlines they are shielding themselves with fish and game. To some degree a valid concern but CAMP has done more environmental damage than grow-ops. With a spineless Jerry Brownose prison industry profits this thuggery will probably continue unabated. It’s clear the predictions of a Feds monopoly lowering it to sched#2 for fat pharma profits is in the works. Leaving prohibition and its profits and no reason for state laws in the minds of the prohibitionists getting the last laugh. Who ya gonna call?

      They disregard the reform laws and the spirit of the laws to continue doing harm to people. We disregard the bogus laws to provide a safer alternative and to help the people. How can anyone not paid, not be outraged by this? It’s nauseating to think we have tax paid servants pissing all over themselves and drooling bile over ideas to thwart the will of the people. Creepy Peter Lorre types giddy at the thought of hurting Americans who choose safer alternatives. Even those who pay their salary.

      ☛ law enforcement officers from Mendocino, Humboldt and Trinity counties

      ☛ “I don’t think there were any properties we went to with under 1,000 plants,” Stoots said.

      ☛ The California Department of Fish and Wildlife is investigating illegal water diversions, water theft and environmental degradation at the site, sheriff’s officials said

      ☛ Specifics of the operation were not available Monday.

      ☛ “There are tremendous environmental and public safety issues associated with unregulated cannabis cultivation. Solving these problems will require a broad coalition of stakeholders, including some of the very farmers being targeted right now. This “business as usual law enforcement” will be just as ineffective now as it has been for decades,”

      ☛ “It’s a normal marijuana eradication year”

      ☛ In a state Supreme Court ruling, People v. Kelly (2010), the court held that patients can NOT be prosecuted simply for exceeding the SB 420 limits; however, they can be arrested and forced to defend themselves as having had an amount consistent with their personal medical needs.

      What the hell part of America has spawned this means to an end?

      California NORML Patient’s Guide to Medical Marijuana

      ☛ Under Prop. 215, patients are entitled to whatever amount of marijuana is necessary for their personal medical use.

      ☛ However, patients are likely to be arrested if they exceed the SB 420 guidelines.

      ☛ SB420, a legislative statute, went into effect on January 1, 2004 as California H&SC 11362.7-.83. This law broadens Prop. 215 to transportation and other offenses in certain circumstances; allows patients to form medical cultivation “collectives” or “cooperatives”;

      ☛ Environmentalists and scientists are worried about the water use.

      Drought in California, Oregon & Washington too! Not from pot…

      ☛ California’s 100-year drought is CYCLICAL
      ☛ regulations have actually left Big Ag relatively untouched
      ☛ It takes 90 gallons of water to produce one tiny container of Greek yogurt.
      ☛ Starbucks Wasting More Than 6 Million Gallons of Water a Day
      ☛ Each innocent-looking almond robs the land of an entire gallon of water.
      ☛ Exported cow feed, “forages” use more water per acre than almonds
      ☛ Laws and the politicians who make them.
      ☛ Nestle continues to bottle 400 million gallons a year

      The Closing of the Marijuana Frontier November/December 2010
      California is not just deciding whether pot should be legal. It’s determining the shape of a major new American industry.

  7. Pingback: Driving Into Science | Spirit Wave

  8. jean valjean says:

    Remember the two Trekkie guys who got pulled over because they “weaved” in the lane” according to a corrupt and mendacious cop? They subsequently won their case against the county? All other dash-cams of stops by this particular cop were mysteriously destroyed before a fraudulent M.O. could be established. Seems that “weaving” can be added to other cop excuses like tail-light out or driving while black as the pretext for a money making drug search and asset forfeiture. Now that Nida has got in on the act we will see more of this I’m sure.

  9. DdC says:

    The case against Colorado’s pot law
    Under the supremacy clause of the Constitution, when federal and state law clash, federal law wins. Accordingly, the Supreme Court has established that if a state law interferes with congressional policies and objectives, it cannot stand.



    • Tony Aroma says:

      All of that may be true, but it’s all been said before and is nothing new. Of course a local law regulating, and/or taxing a federally controlled substance would be superseded by the CSA. Holder and the current administration are clearly aware of that. However, simply making marijuana possession and other non-regulated activities no longer a crime is something completely different. Actively encouraging a violation of federal law is a no-no, but simply not enforcing federal law is perfectly legal.

      Which is why the current administration did NOT file a lawsuit trying to invalidate local laws. They realized that only the regulatory aspects of the laws would be invalidated, leaving marijuana legal and unregulated. Since that’s the last thing the feds want, they chose a wait and see approach. Stupid states are playing right into the hands of those who want legalization, because it’s a WIN-WIN for weed. If the lawsuits fail, that will encourage more states to follow suit and legalize. If they win and marijuana remains legal but unregulated, that will force the feds to do something, which would most likely be rescheduling or legalization/regulation at the federal level. These lawsuits are the best thing that could have happened to advance the cause of legalization.

      • Windy says:

        “That the supremacy clause means federal law supersedes State laws is false according to the Founders:
        The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government, are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.” –James Madison in Federalist #45
        And according to the Constitution:
        Publius Huldah wrote:
        Hat tip to Richard Storm for finding an amazing statement in this video: Start listening at the 2.50 minute mark and listen carefully to 3.20. THEN read the paper I link to below, and you will see how Congress has usurped power over criminal law. Our federal prisons are filled with people convicted of unconstitutional crimes.
        THAT is where JURY NULLIFICATION has a critically important function.
        the linked article:

        • DdC says:

          Windy, I agree with the founders but nonetheless it’s still not a state matter according to Raich and the Supremes. It is not in the Constitution so therefore it should be states jurisdiction. But then the forefathers grew it so they probably never considered anyone so daft as to outlaw rope and medicine. Although anything the founders couldn’t foresee shouldn’t be held to the same standards either. Nuclear weapons should not be a states right nor should citizens have the right to bear nuclear arms. Nothing is more anti-American than urine testing, forcing a citizen to incriminate themselves. But in legalese jobs and courts don’t really take your 5th amendment rights, you voluntarily give them up in exchange for not going to prison or getting the job. Self imposed sheepdom. But when someone is feeding their families the ideals that make this country strong can be harmful to ones health and sanity ending up unemployed. What gets me is that this doesn’t seem to be information hidden in vaults out of our reach and yet massive amounts of people still seem confused and continue to give time to NIDA gossip or refuse to expose the pure fascism behind the profits. Legislating personal gain with prohibiting competition as well as revolving doors from Congress to profits in the Lobby biz.

          Jury Nullification is being countered with gag rules and mandatory minimum sentencing lobbied for hard by the NRA. Sending over 90% to plea bargains. Then they have their hooks in ya they can turn the screws with urine testing to ankle bracelets and probation and rehabilitation costs.

      • claygooding says:

        The AG explained it very well to Congress in a budget hearing when Grassley asked him directly why they didn’t go after CO and WA state,,legal marijuana with no regulations would end up being the wild west(according to their assumption that any toker is a violent criminal) with the only people making money being the criminals,,,struck me funny because that is exactly what prohibition does already.

        • Windy says:

          And LOOK at the “wild west” compared to periods of prohibition:
          Not so “wild” at all, we actually need to go back tot he attitudes they had then.

        • Atrocity says:

          Let me state up-front that my attitude about guns is probably best described as “tolerant indifference”. So my feelings about guns have nothing to do with what I’m about to say here.

          I have no idea whether that chart is accurate or not. However, when I read the article under it, I find the idiot shooter’s actions described as “the deadliest attack on Christianity in decades”. There are three possible reasons that come to mind for the author’s decision to write that: 1) An inability to honestly deal with why the people attacked were attacked, 2) Plain old recreational lying, 3) Insanity.

          Whatever the reason, it completely obliterates any credibility that might possibly have been attached to the article or its accompanying chart.

  10. Keith Scott says:

    Legal Regulation does exactly what the War on Drugs has failed to do. Amongst others it minimises drug use amongst children, fosters harm reduction measures in drug users, reduces the stigmatisation of addicts, curtails infectious disease transmission, controls the quality, sale and availability of drugs, substantially decreases drug-related criminal activity, reduces the profits of organised crime, lessens the opportunities for corruption amongst law enforcement officials, lowers the cost of law enforcement, reduces prison populations. In addition it allows for the more effective implementation of drug education programmes and drug-related health services.

    The human proclivity to use psychoactive substances is not the flaw referred to in the title of this article. In fact it is not a flaw at all; it is a character trait that we should understand, accept and manage in a far more humanistic manner than we do now.

    The current global drug catastrophe is a consequence of the UN sponsored War on Drugs and has not been caused by the desire for some of us to take psychoactive drugs. It is the result of a far more serious human imperfection, the failure to learn from our mistakes.


    • DdC says:

      All of that may be true, but it’s all been said before and is nothing new.

      It’s new to those who continue to believe they have states rights in this matter.

      Of course a local law regulating, and/or taxing a federally controlled substance would be superseded by the CSA.

      No would be about it, it is superseded. State laws curtail STATE cops which state appeasement crap senate bills give back to state cops. Limits or sales are all Federal jurisdiction until state laws grant regulation and enforcement to state cops. With no difference to Federal law, the CSA.

      Holder and the current administration are clearly aware of that.

      No one said anything different.

      However, simply making marijuana possession and other non-regulated activities no longer a crime is something completely different.

      Yes, but the moral, ethical and logical solution since it made less sense rejecting Shafer and implementing the CSA. Anything less continues prohibition exactly the same as Roxinol or Codeine or home distilleries. All we have now, which is more than we’ve ever had, is a temporary cease fire.

      Actively encouraging a violation of federal law is a no-no, but simply not enforcing federal law is perfectly legal.

      You have the obvious down. Obama is not encouraging anyone by lowering his enforcement priorities. But he is not stopping vigilante DA’s either.

      Which is why the current administration did NOT file a lawsuit trying to invalidate local laws.

      Yes, even though he didn’t mind the support from the left in letting them believe he cared. Same as Hilary. Except for the base there is no difference. With J.E.B. it’s a totally different story.

      They realized that only the regulatory aspects of the laws would be invalidated, leaving marijuana legal and unregulated.

      Totally wrong. Cannabis in all forms is a schedule#1 controlled substance under Federal jurisdiction. It is illegal dude. State regulations only apply to state employees and they can not bust crops in CA. That is why zoning laws and the Fish and Wildlife were called in without Federal support. So Brown needs to man up and follow prop 215 and let it be. As we have proven, it works. Nothing will be anything less than a cease fire without removing it from the CSA. Regulating something keeps the black market and prohibition bennies. We have laws covering peoples actions and it should not matter if they were drunk or stoned or straight. Assaulting someone produces a victim and without a victim there should be no crime. Paranoia laws pay politicians and give fake safety to parents without the time to supervise kids they feel a need to keep having.

      Since that’s the last thing the feds want, they chose a wait and see approach.

      Come on. There are NO “Feds” or “Government”, I thought that was a gimmie. These are intangible objects for ease of communication. In matter based reality these are various positions held by humans. Making your point out of touch. The goal is to eliminate competition and profit on prohibition. End of story. Everything else is fluxom and diversions and hogwash to perpetuate the profits. Same with health care. They need sick people and care less how they get them. Prisons don’t care who pays for their stays. Now expand that globally with over 200 DEA offices and its clear they are only concerned with the bottom line. The rest is theater. TV is a joke as far as cannabis reality.

      Stupid states are playing right into the hands of those who want legalization, because it’s a WIN-WIN for weed.

      You must have missed the part with Peter McWilliams and Lungren Wilson. Again you place ghosts and pretend they are real to serve an argument. “States” are also grammar. People in state prohibition positions fought for prohibition and continue to fight for prohibition, except in some places where the voters still have a say. Then the politicians have to at least attempt to serve the people. Where the money has placed employees in office, forgetaboutit. There is only one “quasi legal” state and that is CA, Prop 215 left out the Federal jurisdictions and gave us a keep out of jail free card. The rest is citizens and entrepreneurs sitting down with politicians to draft business regulations for sales and limits. Nothing binding as a law. There is no mandatory ID for possession or growing as much as required. ID is only for entering dispensaries or delivery services. Only Feds have authority over true legalities. For anyone for any reason is the law of the land in CA. CO has busted more people since enacting their quasi legal laws which will be just as moot if a Bush gets in. Driving tests and limits all feed local law enforcement and the other states are even more gross with plucking every dime they can get and maintain control as much as possible. All due to Obama not removing it as he and Lynch have power to do. Without Congress as they have done in the past with Merinol.

      If the lawsuits fail, that will encourage more states to follow suit and legalize.

      Again you are diverting from reality the same as the politicians and legalizers bantering for positions, avoiding the fact cannabis is not worthy of a schedule#1 narcotic and Hemp has no business being listed as a drug. These are tax wasting lawsuits that have no base. Just taking up courts time, stalling and spending money. What the 10th does cover is Feds ruling over states unless it affects all 50. So I don’t see how the SCOTUS will even hear it. If the paranoid states want to block the borders, except the interstate which is Feds. They can probably do that. I see it as a diversion as with any of the news articles that deal with the details and never hit the substance with the Feds actually committing fascism or corporatism. Can’t happen here. Just coincidentally giving fossil fools plastic profits when hemp plastic could receive them. Or fat pharma or hemp wood instead of trees. Hemp seed protein instead of meat profits. All governed by the CSA prohibition. Booze and not many Casino’s I know of cater to large groups of stoners. Booze and pills. Money, its all about the money.

      If they win and marijuana remains legal but unregulated, that will force the feds to do something, which would most likely be rescheduling or legalization/regulation at the federal level.

      If, a big if, the case is heard and then if a majority federalist court decides states shouldn’t have rights to cannabis, which seems unlikely. You still have the reality that it falls under the Commerce Clause and is up to the Feds to enforce, and there’s a hole in the bucket, dear liza dear liza. Back to priorities. Two states controlled by wingnuts are trying to make the Feds protect them from other states when the states aren’t legal to the Feds as it is. Why would the Supremes take the case?

      These lawsuits are the best thing that could have happened to advance the cause of legalization.

      These lawsuits are no different from NIDA gossip or listing my highly addictive blue jeans as a menace to society with no medicinal value. Insane people playing with their own feces like zoo monkey’s.

      Is The DEA Legalizing THC?

      Yup, All of that may be true, but it’s all been said before and is nothing new. Just a little old poking sticks at the same diversions. I maintain homegrown quasi legal is as good as down right outlawed. If it helps sick people then I’ve found most cops don’t care if I treat them. Since 1990 doing hospice work. Nothing much changed after prop 215 for individuals. Obama it broke loose with buyers clubs and convenience we have some places today. As so called legal as I’ve ever seen. Still up to the Feds. Until people get the truth and focus on this one issue. Get comfortable, everywhere is war.

      Vested Ignorance

    • DdC says:


      Yup, true, a very good band aid, not the goal. It actually diverts attention from the mad slashers and consumes time and energy on better or less hurtful band aids. Everyone, everywhere should experience the same as many of us are with civilized communities. Only by Obama removing it from the CSA. Local laws save lives most of the time. But the Fed law is the culprit that deserves massive attention and marches in the streets of the capitol to remove cannabis in all natural forms. The people have spoken, now its time for their actions because at the end of the day this is as much about them as it is about stoners keeping it from extinction. The versatility can provide local markets and economies which is diametrically opposed to the Neocon multinational competition receiving the prohibition profits as it is. We enacted our first sanctuary law in 93 and it had an effect on the cops. They backed down from their previous aggression. Mostly on groups in the papers, seldom hastled individual patients I knew of. Possession fines for tourists but privately toking, I haven’t experienced the “drug war” as others have. Wheel chairs do a great job for those who can’t walk. We should continue making them, but we should ultimately try to focus on removing what is harming peoples legs. So what I’m saying is they profit on what does us harm. So their incentive is to continue as it is. It doesn’t matter what is said or done as long as nothing changes. More research, future damages all set a distant destination which is the same as not changing. The worse thing that could happen to a prohibitionist would be for everyone to stop smoking pot. Legalizing they can still whittle out a nitch regulation. Soooo…

      Legal Regulation does exactly what the War on Drugs has failed to do.

      There is no “legal” regulation outside of NIDA. Quasi legal state laws have done the same as what the war on drugs hasn’t failed to do. Take several Trillion dollars in taxes and spend it on prohibitionists. The WoD is designed to perpetuate prohibition, not safer drug use or quality assurance or protecting the kids. That’s just what the commercials say to sell the product of war, any war. In this case the war on some plants and lab powders.

      Amongst others it minimises drug use amongst children,

      Not sure about that, the underground is always there. What it does is free up copshops to make it more difficult for kids with time they would have spent busting adults. Education in real terms, not DARE indoctrination to hate. Would keep kids from more harm than all the jails and rehab asylums. Prohibition is the harm in doing drugs or plants.

      fosters harm reduction measures in drug users,

      That does not provide statistics to increase bloated budgets. The harm is from prohibition. Same drugs done safely most of the time when prescribed by doctors and maintained by science. Quality Assurance eliminating inconsistent dosages the same as having the freedom to clone specific strains for specific symptoms. No clinic is going to make patients share needles. So the harm reduction is simple. Stop prohibition.

      reduces the stigmatisation of addicts,

      Needed by all racist for the same reasons. Divide and conquer. Bennett whining about the loss of it. A tool of the fascists or prohibitionists. All of these common sense things normally considered wrong headed, are tools of the trade.

      curtails infectious disease transmission,

      Unless you’re in the business of selling treatments for those diseases.

      controls the quality, sale and availability of drugs,

      Pretty much like a clinic, again the obvious logic does not apply when dealing with bottom line dwellers. Inconsistency or adulterations all provide statistics to show how bad drugs are, when as stated, its prohibition doing the harm. The harm is necessary to prove the magnitude of the problem. Lookie the beast has killed children, we must throw a trillion dollars at it and fight it by feeding it and sheltering it!

      substantially decreases drug-related criminal activity,

      or takes profits from the jail biz and takes another hobgoblin to relate it to smoking pot. “Criminal activity to pay for over priced goods due to prohibition. Violence or any of the other symptoms of this disease are deterrents to scare people.

      reduces the profits of organised crime,

      You mean the ones not tax paid? Just what prohibitionists and banksters want, less profits. Organized crime run Wall St. They employ politicians to legislate for them. They sell drug wars and police actions or rather the paraphernalia to wage them. Guns and cop tanks and jail cells steel bars and concrete. Mainly keeps a viable versatile home grown affordable health care out of the hands of the sick.

      lessens the opportunities for corruption amongst law enforcement officials,

      None of which you will hear about on TV. Again the corruption is sanctioned by the drug war. The corruption is also legal to use if its against drugs. Forfeitures and confiscations. Busting crops just to hurt the growers without an arrest or trial. Just waste. But not at a state level. Only Federally removing it from the CSA will assure legalities aren’t just a break between elections.

      lowers the cost of law enforcement,

      Again, one mans cost is an others profits. You want to lower the padded incomes for cops? Just give it to the dopers that no one wants them to have it. LEO’s work a shift regardless of the assignment. The bennies come from prohibition and for that reason lowering the cost is not prudent at this juncture.

      reduces prison populations.

      I’m sure the Koch and ALEC brothers would love to hear that. Jerry Browne has the option to release nonviolent prisoners and chooses to build more prisons. Thats where the money is. Rehab asylums too but not like mandatory minimum sentencing and 3 strikes bringing home the bacon.

      In addition it allows for the more effective implementation of drug education programmes and drug-related health services.

      Seriously, do you think they put all of that time and effort into NIDA gossip just to have people become educated? Not in the plan. I agree with everything you said but I’m on the side of the good guys. Not a profiteering drug worrier selling our America for warped ideals of a utopian sober godland.

  11. DdC says:

    Cowards. Don’t be such wimps, if you have something to counter my claims, bring it. Don’t toss thumbs and run away like pu… oh thats not PC. Weak sheep. Lay it on me thumbsdowntroddens!

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  14. Servetus says:

    I had no idea “the United Nations (U.N.) General Assembly declared June 26 as the International Day against Drug Abuse and Illicit Trafficking. Its stated mission is to ‘strengthen action and cooperation to achieve the goal of an international society free of drug abuse’.”

    How could I miss something as big as a U.N. proclamation day celebrating a drug free society?

    Maybe it’s because June 26 was eventful this year. What with the death of Dixie, the exemplary resilience of the ACA, and increasing liberty and justice for all, prohibitionists suffered major setbacks in nearly all their traditionally allied causes. Prohibs are clinging to the apocalypse as their only possible protection from the threat of freedom. Meanwhile, the US just became a better place to live.

    Laura Krasovitzky at DPA continues:

    June 26, 2015 — Ironically, today is also the International Day in Support of Victims of Torture and its theme this year is “Right to Rehabilitation.” Part of its statement reads that “trauma reaches far beyond the direct victims and in some instances, where torture has been used in a systematic and widespread manner, whole societies are affected.” When “torture” can be replaced with “the drug war” in the statement above, it means we are in a serious need for a paradigm shift.


    • Windy says:

      Servetus, I disagree that the SCOTUS decision on the ACA is beneficial to anyone but insurance companies. And I do NOT see ANY increase in “liberty and justice for all”, a better solution to the fight over gay marriage would have been what Alabama did:
      The idea that any of us need gov approval to be married is what we have been told. Not anymore in AL!
      And as for the death of Dixie, well, banning the confederate flag is NOT promoting “liberty and justice for all” in any way, shape, or form.

      • Servetus says:

        I think ACA has hurt insurance companies because it forced them to fund people having no previous access to health insurance due to prior health problems or financial circumstances. Accepting only healthy people into a policy is no longer an option. At the other end of the financial stream, health insurance was forced to be more competitive in the rates it charges. Also, unless it’s changed, insurance companies were forced to pick up a percentage of the tab for treating indigent patients in lower-cost policies. Health insurance companies are no longer as profitable, but they still function.

        The classic concept of marriage has been dead for some time, if it ever existed. It’s different now from what it was 200 years ago, or even 75 years ago. I think the concept was kept alive to make settling estates easier. If the bureaucrats can make things simpler for themselves by troubling someone else for a signed certificate, they will. It’s their job.

        Regarding the Stars and Bars, it’s not legal in the US to totally ban the confederate flag, as it’s still a symbol protected under freedom of expression. Citizens may still legally display it, although probably at their own risk from other citizens at this point. However, it now appears government agencies will rid themselves of the troublesome symbol in their state flags, in statehouses, on government logos, in public parks unless it’s of purely historical interest, and so forth. They can do that to themselves. If government bureaucrats feel oppressed about losing their freedom of expression, too bad. In Germany, no such freedom exists. Someone displaying a swastika in public, or performing the Nazi salute at the Reichstag as one Canadian did, will get arrested and charged with a crime.

      • Atrocity says:

        Whether the ACA is the best–or even a particularly *good*–way to deal with the healthcare situation in this country is absolutely a discussion worth having and one on which intelligent people can disagree. Claiming it benefits insurance companies is certainly accurate. Claiming it *only* benefits insurance companies is so easily disproven it’s astonishing that anyone would even try to make such a claim.

        As for marriage, I’ve said for decades that it’s weird that the government is involved. But in the real world, the government *is* involved, whether we like it or not. If Alabama wants to stop being involved, great. Of course, that’s unlikely to play well anywhere else (and I question how well it will play in Alabama), so as long as the government wishes to be involved and people wish for it to continue to be involved, the licenses either go to everyone or the discrimination is painfully obvious and intolerable.

  15. Mouth says:

    Iraqi Marine Vet, Kris Lewandowski, busted for 6 small plants in Oklahoma (stationed, though in the processes of being medicaled out)–weighing 1oz of total cannabis, allowed to go back to California and then given a fugitive from justice charge. While he was in jail in Oklahoma, the Marine Corps gave him his total honorable medical discharge, regardless of the fact he was arrested for growing a schedule one drug. There is a possibility he could get life for growing in Oklahoma and leaving the state. Comanche county: Geronimo, Oklahoma and the judge who gave him permission to live back in California was judge Tayloe.

    If anybody has the talent for activism–it is the couch. Life for 1oz (6plants) . . . all because a bad reaction to pre-marijuana PTSD meds caused the neighbors to call the cops, which meant he needed to try the Cannabis route.

  16. claygooding says:

    If he has a FB page I will try to get up there,,I drive to a smoke shop and casino appx 6 miles from Geronimo at least once a month,,it is time to start educating local registered voters on jury nullification or refusing to convict,,,also need to start a voters registration drive to load up jury panels with people that are awake.
    If the prosecutor has to use his jury cuts on known advocates or reform supporters he cannot get them all,,,,and it only takes one juror to make him do it all over again,,,EXPENSIVE.

    • Windy says:

      Unfortunately the drive towards even more plea bargaining and gag orders in court can offset the jury nullification movement. I don’t know what we can do about that other than all of America declaring the courts unconstitutional and refusing to participate in them in any way.

      • DdC says:

        I remember when the court security was removing and busting people from handing out Nullification leaflets. Seems the established “liberals” are still remembering rednecks using jury nullification to get their KKK buds out of a murder rap. Lynching and burning buildings. All crime with victims, that is the point these liberals miss. It’s not jury nullification that is bad or good, its how it is being used. Like any of these drug laws they presume any amount is abuse and therefore creating victims when you sell it to them. Except that people go out of their way to buy drugs. They spend more money than they should for a weed that grows freely. No one is selling them anything. No commercials or forcing people. The reefer madness gossip is silly to think someone gets people on cannabis just to addict them as slaves for the hard drugs. All unsubstantiated hogwash and La Guardia agrees. Nonetheless jury nullification is still seen as a racist tool of the segregationists and white supremest’. More nullifications means less innocents in prison and more having courage to use their Constitutional rights of a jury trial. One more ends justify means of the drug worriers we need to eliminate. Not that I’d admonish anyone for taking a plea bargain. Facing mandatory minimum sentencing without a medicinal defense permitted is a real life threat and those with families may feel safer copping a plea. Except you have admitted guilt and it will stay on your record. Many benefits like tuition assistance or getting a Pell grant will be gone for life. Many employers can use this as a way to force urine testing or block promotions. All degrading Americans and that should be what is confronted. Not making it easier for DA’s to win cases.

        Jury Nullification Advocate Is Indicted
        Julian P. Heicklen sat silent and unresponsive as his bail hearing began one day recently in federal court in Manhattan; his eyes were closed, his head slumped forward.

        Since 2009, Mr. Heicklen has stood there and at courthouse entrances elsewhere and handed out pamphlets encouraging jurors to ignore the law if they disagree with it, and to render verdicts based on conscience.

        That concept, called jury nullification, is highly controversial, and courts are hostile to it. But federal prosecutors have now taken the unusual step of having Mr. Heicklen indicted on a charge that his distributing of such pamphlets at the courthouse entrance violates a law against jury tampering.

        This is a sure red flag I’m always harping on. The act of censorship itself should be criminal. But the point that no one sees it as a threat because its only about smoking pot. Same attitude the Germans had. Same reason we still have racism and homeless. Not in my backyard. Not my problem. Just druggies.

        Senator Orin Hatch, Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and 28 Senate co-sponsors have introduced Bill S. 3 that mandates that a person convicted of bringing into the United States “100 usual dosage amounts” of several illicit substances including two ounces of marijuana be sentenced to life without parole for a first offense and death for a second offense.

        Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich and 37 House co sponsors have introduced Bill H. R. 41 with the identical provision. On May 8, 1997, Speaker Gingrich said: “If you sell it, we’re going to kill you.”

        On “Larry King Live,” June 15, 1989, a caller to the national cable television show suggested to Drug “Czar” William Bennett: “Behead the damn drug dealers.” Mr. Bennett’s response was: “I mean what the caller suggests is morally plausible. Legally, it’s difficult But somebody selling drugs to a kid? Morally, I don’t have any problem with that at all.” Mr. Bennett reiterated his position the next day in a written statement that told drug dealers: “You deserve to die.”

        Jury Nullification Activist Jailed 145 Days for Distributing Info
        Vietnam Era Veteran, peaceful freedom activist, and local small businessman, Mark Schimdter, has been jailed for 145 days by Judge Belvin Perry. Schmidter’s sentence began Thursday after he was found guilty for distributing jury nullification info outside of Perry’s self-imposed “free speech zone.” during the Casey Anthony trial.

    • Servetus says:

      Nice one.

      Kevin and SAM are coming down in the world. They have a parody site: http://smartapproaches.com/

      Kevin’s been really smug lately about the future of marijuana research. He pooh-poohs the scientific interest in marijuana biochemistry. Clearly, clearly, he doesn’t understand the ubiquitous value of scientific knowledge, that everything is connected, and that a meager discovery in one area of science can have extreme value in many other areas of science and development.

      Kevin Sabet also illustrates a big problem in America, one I’ve encountered during my entire professional career, and that is some people exhibit a total science disconnect. Not only do they not know science, they reject it as if it’s merely someone’s opinion. They believe their ideologies, or moral frame of reference, are superior to it.

      • darkcycle says:

        “…some people exhibit a total science disconnect. Not only do they not know science, they reject it as if it’s merely someone’s opinion. They believe their ideologies, or moral frame of reference, are superior to it.”
        You just described Congress and the entire Midwest and South. I’d guess 40% of the US population.
        Sigh. Too bad, but you nailed it, Servetus.

      • kaptinemo says:

        Kevin doesn’t completely reject science; his (ahem) doctorate can be said to involve verbal centripetal physics.

        He demonstrates his mastery of the subject with every utterance. One can become debilitated and nauseous watching him spin, spin, spin…

      • kaptinemo says:

        Naw, they haven’t hit bottom yet, not until Weird Al Yankovic lampoons them. When he does a video on them, then I know they’ve reached the nadir of relevance.

        Or maybe Penn and Teller will resurrect their old “Bullshit!” series. They sure did a good job on the War on Drugs and its proponents last time.

    • kaptinemo says:

      Allan, thanks for a major bombshell.

      ‘OMFDeity’, I thought, ‘Did I read this right?l

      “Senator Booker said he was happy the first panel established that there is a choke-hold on cannabis research and reputable researchers cannot procure adequate quantities and types of cannabis. Dr. Volkow from NIDA even concurred that there is “no scientific reason” for cannabis to be in Schedule I like heroin.”

      I thought this might ‘journalistic license’, but, no, it was verbatim.

      They’ve been totally backed into a corner, now. They’ve admitted they have no scientific basis for cannabis prohibition. None.

      I thank whatever Power there is I have lived long enough to see that these Lysenkoist MFers who’ve wiped themselves with Science must now choke on the used toilet paper. The DrugWarriors have degraded and bastardized scientific inquiry in service of political agendas having nothing to do with the material benefit of Humanity. And in doing so, committed myriad crimes against it (the 1974 anti-cancer study’s suppression counts as such in my book).

      This admission signals a forlorn hope on their part that they will be allowed to continue with business as usual after receiving a toothless public reprimand few will witness and fewer remember…and thus continue to sabotage progress.

      Not this time. Booker’s got the right idea. His questioning is a laser that cuts through the deflective cloud of BS the prohibs use as camouflage. This is how the prohibs have to be handled. They are not used to it, and wilt and wither away.

      They are just as Mencken described them as being; strip from them the protective force prohibition laws afford them, and they are nothing more than your neurotic, nosy neighbor who thinks they have right to tell you how to run your household when theirs are horrific messes. Kevvie and Company are perfect examples.

      • kaptinemo says:

        I want to see Booker question Sabet as to where SAM’s money comes from. Anybody want to bet with me (smiling evil wolf’s grin) that he’s still effectively on ONDCP’s payroll by being their money bagman for their industry allies, courtesy of taxpayer funded ‘grants’ to these astroturf groups he’s setting up everywhere?

        Any takers? None? Well, I guess I should have known better; this is Pete’s Couch, after all.

        If Booker wants these worms to squirm for trying to BS him, if he wants to really draw some blood, then there’s the freakin’ jugular.

      • tensity1 says:

        I only watched the part of the video where Sen. Booker questions Dr. Volkow about how cannabis is treated differently in the schedules from another Schedule 1 drug, heroin. I didn’t see or hear Dr. Volkow admitting that there is no scientific basis for cannabis to be in Schedule 1. We know it shouldn’t be, and one might infer that from that segment of the video, but unless Dr. Volkow made the statement elsewhere (I only watched for a couple of minutes to the end of the first panel), she never said there is no scientific basis for cannabis to be in Schedule 1. She only said there is no scientific basis for it to be treated differently than heroin in availability for research purposes.

        • B. Snow says:

          Well then – “you were doing it wrong” = Because she said admitted exactly that, try again and see if you catch it this time.

    • Windy says:

      My comment there:

      I support completely descheduling cannabis, it never belonged on the schedule (not even at the same level as tobacco and alcohol) in the first place. Cannabis is safer than pharmaceutical drugs, safer than alcohol, safer than aspirin, and even safer than water. Those who oppose it do not do so from a health pov, they don’t want it because used in certain ways it makes people high, happy, and more aware, those are sins in their eyes, BIG SINS, no one is supposed to be happy, or high, or (“god” forbid) more aware, that is all supposed to be reserved for the afterlife. The only reason they do not rant against alcohol the same way is because they know that is a lost cause, they think they still have a chance to stop cannabis, they are delusional.

    • Will says:

      Within the article Allan linked to is a link to the entire hearing;

      Drug Caucus Hearing on Barriers to Cannabidiol Research


      It’s pretty long but I sat down and watched the entire video. Along with Senator Booker’s exchange with Kevin Sabet, it’s worth heading to 1:27:26 to see Booker’s brief questioning of Nora Volkow. Just the look on her face when she admits that no other Schedule I substance is treated like cannabis when it comes to research and the fact that there is no scientific basis justifying cannabis’ schedule is not to be missed. Although she answers the questions stone-faced (no pun intended), she is clearly uncomfortable. I suspect she realized she couldn’t pull a Michele Leonhart and come off as an ignorant buffoon. What a dilemma…

      There’s a lot more going on in the video of course. One thing that struck me, and must have struck Kevin Sabet, is the ages and attitudes of the four senators who asked the primary questions. Grassley and Feinstein are old drug warriors Sabet feels comfortable with. But their bureaucratic careers are coming to end much sooner that later. Gillibrand and Booker, on the other hand, are relatively young and, if re-elected, could be around for a long while. This can’t sit well with Sabet. Those two younger senators are not aligned with Sabet at all. I might be projecting a bit, but I detected at least mild contempt for Sabet’s positions from those two senators. And Kevin took a swipe at PSTD being included in the CARERS Act. He’s creating new dilemmas for himself. Great stuff.

      One other thing to mention is the apparent continuation of of attempting to break the cannabis plant apart when it comes to the CSA. Just as synthetic THC products are lower on the schedule than plant based THC, the same recommendations are being made with respect to CBD.

      • kaptinemo says:

        It is starting to sink in for prohibs what the ongoing generational sea-change in politics means. The Olde Order Passeth, and the new boss is NOT the same as the old boss. These hearings are perfect examples.

        As the generation that blindly supported prohibition falls prey to Father Time and his black-sheep brother, the Grim Reaper, what is clear is that what is replacing them in the electorate has no desire for drug prohibition, as signaled by the solid support cannabis law reform referenda consistently enjoy in the 18-35 voting age group.

        The very group intended to be the new marks replacing their dying predecessors in the continuing prohibition con-game courtesy of DARE indoctrination.

        The prospective suckers have been alerted to their intended status and refuse to play. in fact, they repudiate the game with their votes in favor of cannabis law reform.

        That has to taste like ashes in the mouths of the prohibs, to have their life’s-work rejected by those they ostensibly labored so hard and long for.

        That we won’t salute them for nailing themselves to a cross of their own making, while loudly claiming they are bleeding for our benefit when nobody asked them to must really piss them off.

  17. Duncan20903 says:


    Help me out here please, is the pain in my ass from suffering the prohibitionists constant blah blah blah neuropathic pain? Also, is it close enough to be considered lower back pain? C’mon, it’s less than 5 centimeters from the ass end of my spine. That should be good enough for government work.
    Trial of Dronabinol and Vaporized Cannabis in Neuropathic Low Back Pain

    Oh forget it. With my luck I’d end up on the Marinol® list, murder the study’s lab rat recruiter, and before you could even say “campaign of disinformation” the headline on next serving of textual hogwash regurgited by Cliff Kincaid would say “cannabis addled pothead in cannabis induced psychosis murders research scientist because he wouldn’t pay him to smoke pot!”

    As if that wouldn’t be bad enough, good old SAM would almost certainly wage a parallel campaign of disinformation to convince people that synthetic dronabinol doesn’t get people high. Isn’t it obvious that if it did I wouldn’t have cared enough to commit a homicide because I got that instead of cannabis or the placebo? ….and some people wonder why there are coups d’etat on our planet! How the heck can anyone in his right mind argue that prohibition doesn’t just plain suck?

    Oh well, it’s time for a slice of cake I guess. Mmmm—cake!
    Speaking of SAM, it doesn’t appear that Mr. Kennedy shows up for work very often. So what’s causing all of that lost “productivity”? Now let’s just take a deep breath before we blame drinking alcohol in a kneejerk reaction. It’s very possible that it’s simply because his chauffeur quit and he just got lost trying to find SAM HQ. We don’t call him Stupidpatrick for nothing you know. Let’s reserve judgement at least until the search party reports something definitive.

  18. It’s Time to Legalize Drugs: An Open Letter to Congress and the President

    Bestselling author Don Winslow, whose new novel ‘The Cartel’ is now available,’ on how the only way to win the trillion-dollar War on Drugs is to stop fighting. This piece is also running as a paid ad by Winslow in today’s print edition of The Washington Post.

    • Windy says:

      The member of congress who claims to represent me posted this link along with this comment:

      ICYMI: The administration should reclassify ‪#‎marijuana‬ to recognize that it has medicinal value.

      Walt Stawicki wrote:

      The man fired was a customer service rep who partook on private time. Imagine if you’re capable …a world where your boss fires you because you test positive for two cold beers after work last night. That’s the comparison. Not a guy who keeps a 5th of vodka in his lunch box at the factory.

      • kaptinemo says:

        Windy, that last link contains something which I have been railing on for years about, and here it is:

        “Seattle Attorney James Shore won a 2011 Washington Supreme Court case on behalf of TeleTech, which had fired an employee who treated her migraine headaches with marijuana. But Shore said local employers are quietly choosing to ease workplace drug-testing rules. “When the thirty-something generation takes over the company, they’re viewing things differently,” said Shore, who works at the firm Stoel Rives.” (Emphasis mine – k.)

        There it is, plain as day: CANNABISTS ARE TAKING OVER. Socially, politically, economically, the field is ours. Everything the prohibs do is marked with failure, simply because we outnumber them. We are the future; they truly are of the past.

        We are the ones paying the taxes, now. We are replacing those in the electorate who’ve thwarted us for so long. The successes of 2012 and later was a resounding wake-up call for those pols not too senile or politically tone-deaf to understand.

        And that reality is being recognized by the more astute members of Congress and the Senate. We’ve thrown the prohib lie of ‘stoners are too lazy to vote’ in their faces since 1996, and each time it was noticed by the more intelligent pols. Who have accurately figured their chances, and more are siding with us.

        This will be reflected in the operation of corporations, and soon. Or they risk losing vital personnel and intellectual capital. A point sure to infuriate ALEC and the Chamber of Commerce.

    • Windy says:

      This comment:
      Coda wrote:

      What is truly savage is that states are setting prices at black market levels. That really rips me in the gut. This isn’t stopping the war, it’s taking over the trade, thank you for setting high prices black market. I guess they have actually won the war. How much is an ounce of Kale?

      • DdC says:

        I ask the rep how can they do this? Such prices I’ve never heard of. He said they have their own greenhouses and the environment of the locals has a lot to do with price. All this plus no tax or delivery charges to my front door and paid by CC.

        Surf City Delivery

        On the highest price side….

        Afghan Kush (Indoor)
        15 g
        40 1/8
        75 1/4
        140 1/2
        270 oz
        Medical Conditions: Body Pain, Depression, Insomnia, Joint Pain, Muscle Pain, Neck Pain Revered for its heavy resin content and heavily sedating effects, Afghan Kush is a top choice for anyone looking to relax after a long day.

        Lesser potencies but still good weed….

        Sour Diesel Small Bud
        35 1/4
        65 1/2
        120 oz
        Sungrown Organic Smallbud grown on the Surf City Collective farm this season. Don’t be fooled by the price, this is some really nice small bud for you. There may be some stems and fan leaves in there, but there is also some really nice buds too.

        The catch is the cost of living on the Central Coast…

  19. DdC says:

    The weird war on weed…

    Uncle Sam Offers $3 Million to First Person Who Can Cure Marijuana Addiction
    Based on the ideology that millions of Americans are grossly addicted to marijuana, the federal government has approved $3 million to facilitate the fast-track creation of a pharmaceutical drug to treat this supposed scourge on public health.

    Federal Study: Alcohol Impacts Driving More Than Marijuana
    According to researchers, alcohol “significantly increased lane departures/minimum and maximum lateral acceleration; these measures were not sensitive to cannabis.” In addition, they concluded that stoned drivers “may attempt to drive more cautiously to compensate for impairing effects, whereas alcohol-influenced drivers often underestimate their impairment and take more risk.”

    Study: Breaking Up Nugs Can Make You Fail a Drug Test
    A recently published study from the University of Freiburg in Germany has found that rolling a joint is enough to fail a drug test. Even indirect contact with cannabis can give you a false positive, with big implications for legal cases that revolve around a drug test as evidence.

    Lloyd’s of London Will Insure Body Parts, But Not the Marijuana Industry
    Lloyd’s of London, the insurance network that became infamous in the 1980s for writing multi-million policies to protect everything from a rock star’s voice right down to his love muscle, has reportedly suspended all dealings with marijuana-related businesses in the United States.

    New Study: Honeybees Will Replace Drug-Sniffing Dogs
    it has become increasingly more difficult for the soldiers of the drug war to use dope-sniffing dogs to effectively take down cartel mules trying to squeeze illegal narcotics into the black market.

    However, a group of scientists believe they have found a solution to the diminishing K-9 narcotics infantry—honeybees that have been trained to detect illegal substances.

    • Aren’t they offering anything for the first person who can cure alcohol addiction, or tobacco addiction? Seems a bit short sighted, or maybe more like having blinders on. http://tinyurl.com/pztdz5z

      Or maybe a dragon attempting to guard its hoard of gold is the better image.

      • DdC says:

        Aren’t they offering anything for the first person who can cure alcohol addiction, or tobacco addiction?

        The Cure for Drinking

        Powdered Alcohol Wins U.S. F.D.A. Approval

        and smoking…

        ISIS Beheads Cigarette Smokers:
        Islamic State Deems Smoking ‘Slow Suicide’ Under Sharia Law

        “The FDA has rejected the possibility of making cigarettes illegal by saying the underground product would be “even more dangerous than those currently marketed.” So when you make popular products illegal, it has the potential to make those products more dangerous.”
        ~ Derek Thompson

        Gee, ya think?

    • jean valjean says:

      What do you expect from an placeman like Stuart Gitlow, who has even tried to make a case for the “success” of alcohol prohibition?

  20. DdC says:

    Property management corporations are buying up low income housing and taking HUD contracts and then dictating how people should live. No BBQ, No smoking anywhere, on or off the property, no guns, no pot plants (in CA). Most of the tenants are disabled or elderly and feel they have no way to fight it, and risk eviction. Intimidation and threatening innuendos are common. Welcome to the Seniordom. Booze and any prescribed drug are allowed naturally. That’s all after a 4-5 year waiting list, background checks, credit checks. With several inspections claiming protection from slum lords. Fed inspections, State inspections, County inspections. The right to privacy has become an admittance of guilt. The drive towards care warehouses is picking up speed. Dignity has left the building.

    Complaints or civil suits against your landlord
    Since HUD is controlled by federal law, there are no protections for medical marijuana patients. Do not cultivate and try very hard to avoid possessing or even medicating in your apartment. If you must medicate in your apartment because of your condition, try to use edibles and vaporizers and practice sensible cannabis use. Unfortunately, HUD regulations allow a landlord to evict you for any activity related to any controlled substance, including medical marijuana. Here is a 1999 Memorandum Regarding Medical Marijuana in Public Housing written by HUD General Counsel.

    Home Sweet Home

    If the landlord escalates his tactics and threatens to evict you, refer to California housing law websites and legal hotlines, which will better explain your rights and discuss eviction fighting strategies. Here are several housing resources:

    * San Francisco Tenants’ Union,
    * Housing Rights Committee of San Francisco,
    * Housing Resource Center-LA,
    * National Fair Housing Advocate Online,
    * Tenant.Net, and
    * California Housing Law Project – Tenants’ Resources

    March 14, 2013
    A Guide to California’s Proposed Ban on Smoking in Apartments
    Levine said the law would apply only to tobacco smoke.

    Please Don’t Poop in My Salad
    Defending smokers is a thankless task in today’s politically correct environment, and Bast does not deny the health risks associated with smoking. But today’s taxes and bans go far beyond a reasonable public policy response to a public health problem. Bast asks for a reasoned debate that respects the rights of smokers and the owners of bars and restaurants they frequent.

    Lipstick on Pigs… Same Protection Racketeers…

    Organic Cannabis/Tobacco vs Chemical Cigarettes

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