Open thread

Welcome to those who participated in a most enjoyable event last night at Indiana University. I had a great time with my presentation, and a wonderful discussion with the folks there. Special kudos for making that wonderful Drug War Victims poster based on the Drug War Victims page.

If this is your first time visiting the site, have a seat on the couch — we’ve got some great folks here, who have a ton of good information.

Oh, and for the wonderful gentleman who traveled a long distance to hear the talk and was foiled by Indiana time zones, I’m sorry you missed a good portion of it, but glad I got to meet you.

Pete Guither speaking on the drug war's assault on liberty

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59 Responses to Open thread

  1. divadab says:

    Thanks for your leadership in this fight, Prof. Guither. Thanks for persevering in the face of the sheer arrogant corruption of the prohibitionist machine. Thanks for providing a forum for us to exchange info and develop ideas and strategies for ending this absurd evil prohibition and exposing the lies it is based on.

    For your sake, I hope there is a heaven because if there is, a very special place there has your name on it.

  2. HughMcDuff says:

    Check out the great comments here in Northern Ireland:

    Belfast Telegraph

  3. NorCalNative says:

    Cool Tie.

    Pete I tried to get in but got busted by security for trying to sell “fake urine” to the kids coming to your lecture.

    My bad.

  4. Matthew Meyer says:

    Pete “The Rock” Guither…

    You earned your single-malt with this one, Pete!

    Thanks for all you do.

  5. claygooding says:

    Bah humbug,,,I suppose we have all heard the fastest growing religion has now been established in Indiana thanx to the religious freedom act and we noted that is had been tried before,,but never with these numbers and made up mostly of time bombs and depth charges for a jury panel,,,put a screen door on your submarine sandwich and fire it up.

  6. darkcycle says:

    The mainstreaming of marijuana is officially under way. Miracle Grow has purchased General Hydroponics.
    I’m fairly sure most of the other gardeners here use organic methods like me, but I would strongly advise avoiding ANYTHING Scotts or Miracle Grow.
    I mean,damn…

    • claygooding says:

      Too late,,I have been growing using Miracle grow water control(coco coir) with plant food for 6 months,,I do cut it 1/3 with peat moss and add a little perlite but other than that I grow the vegetation cycle on MG and one week before moving to flowering I start using a hydroponic nutrient mix @ 75% strength with Flouralcious added.

      It sure does grow purty marijuana

      • Irie says:

        Yes it does Clay, years ago, when I use to grow the girls, it worked the best, also, the best soil is Black Gold, the combo with the two of these does the garden good!

        • darkcycle says:

          Oh Irie, you need to expand your soil horizons…
          The best soil is mixed and cooked organic. Water saver just makes it hard to properly cycle the wet/dry periods.
          I most highly recommend the book “True Living Organics” By “The Rev” to all home growers. It is the best recipe for a living soil anywhere. And it will save you big $$.

    • primus says:

      Scott’s lawn fertilizer is the best. I have used it for years and will continue.

      • darkcycle says:

        Ugh…that’s lots of unused salts going right into the runoff water, and straight into the ground water. If you knew the tiny, tiny percentage of that fertilizer actually being used by your plants….
        Prilled lime and mulch twice in the spring…Much more environmentally friendly. Too many people turn their lawns into toxic waste dumps in the quest for purty grass. Yards are an environmental disaster.

        • Windy says:

          Our poor lawns are mostly clover, dandelions, crabgrass and buttercups (where they aren’t moss), very little actual grass in them. What can I say? Our yard use to be a pasture (which is why I spent 9 days of decently warm sunny days over the past three weeks digging out horsetail and morning glory roots from a flowerbed 38’x4′ and 2’deep). We’ve pretty much given up on trying to grow actual grass.
          We use organic soil to start plants for the garden and last year to grow cannabis plants. Won’t be growing our own this year, we do too much traveling during growing and harvest seasons, it’s not worth it when you have to harvest early because you won’t be home for 10 days, and we’re still using last year’s crop.
          For my potted ornamental plants, I use MG moisture control with slow release fertilizer, and add more slow release fertilizer later to maintain their beauty, I also add Mycorrhiza to the soil. I do NOT use pesticides, hubby uses composted horse manure in the food garden.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          Oh c’mon DC, it’s a great scam. In the spring there’s all sorts of profits booked selling chemicals to make that lawn “purty” then in the fall they get people to buy bags to haul away the naturally produced nutrients to the landfill paving the way for more profits from chemical nutrients in the spring. My neighbors used to think me very weird because I’d go down the road collecting their yard trim before the county truck did. But that was before my next door neighbor realized that if he just dumped his trim in my mulch pile that I’d be very pleased. At least he figured out that the paper bags were a scam. Oh, also before I figured out that I had put my mulch pile on a sink hole and it was 90% swallowed by the planet. That sink hole is truly unbelievable. I’ve got a laundry washing machine that’s getting ready to give up the goats and I’m very tempted to see how long it takes to get swallowed. My SWAG is a little less than 3 years.

        • Windy says:

          I heard a nutritionist who was also a gardener talking about why people are suffering so many deficiencies, today, when they never suffered those deficiencies in the past. He explained that people use to grow their own vegetable gardens instead of relying on produce from the supermarket produced by factory farms (they didn’t have supermarkets or factory farms). They also heated and cooked with wood more often than not, and they used the ashes from their wood fires (along with some kitchen scraps, the rest of which they fed to the chickens and pigs) in their gardens, restoring micronutrients (mainly minerals) to the soil to be taken up by the plants grown in that soil. The mass produced produce doesn’t have those micronutrients, ergo most people now suffer deficiencies making them far more susceptible to diseases (coronary, pulmonary, auto-immune, etc.). It got me to thinking that maybe medical cannabis growers should maybe do the same thing to the soil in which they grow the cannabis when they are growing for juicing/eating, cooked edibles and oils, and also for hemp farmers growing the seed as a food crop.

    • Matthew Meyer says:

      The General Hydro dude sounds like he’s got his head in the right place, to judge from the story I read…

      But ditch the bottles and try something like Living Organic Soil…plenty of dudes like Clackamas Coot have shared their soil building teks online.

  7. Duncan20903 says:


    Why is it that I just can’t picture a gay couple serving pizza at their wedding reception? It just seems so, so, so pedestrian. Maybe I’ve been watching too many episodes of Modern Family and it’s just Cam & Mitch I can’t picture serving pizza at their wedding. Does it make me a bad person if I think that all of the gay people have too much taste, fashion sense and just plain wouldn’t be caught dead serving pizza at a wedding reception? OK, you’re right, it does. I blame society for all of my short comings.

    Next, why is it that I also find it to be farfetched in the extreme that the happy couple would become physically violent if someone refused to deliver said pizza because the couple was getting gay married? This one is from the “beam me up Scotty, there’s no intelligent life on this planet” category:

    Indiana pizza shop that won’t cater gay weddings to close …because the owners fear retaliation from pissed off homosexuals. I bullshit you not. Heck, I couldn’t even make up fiction this extreme. The most incredible part is the entire thing is hypothetical. There were no gay people refused service in that pizza parlor.

    Crystal O’Connor, the co-owner of Memories Pizza, told WBND-TV she would serve a gay or non-Christian couple at the restaurant, but would not cater a same-sex couples wedding.

    The comments resulted in a flood of threats against the business on Yelp and Twitter.

    O’Connor told The Blaze that since the interview, the restaurant owners are “in hiding basically, staying in the house.”

    • peoria_dude says:

      We can be glad the origins of Religious Freedom court cases and legislation included the Amish being able to avoid Social Security and Medicare federal income taxes and Native Americans being able to continue century old peyote ceremony customs. Do we really want to hold guns to the heads of the Amish and Native Americans to force them to deny their core beliefs?

      Those pizza place owners are wrong about same sex marriages, but I’m not willing to put a gun to their head to take away their business if they won’t cater same sex weddings. Some $700,000 has already been raised to help them start a different life after all the unwarranted death threats, so it looks like they will be okay. But still, that is some kind of sick mob mentality that can take over the populist progressives in this country and turn them insane.

      Where have we seen that before? When the populist progressives went all in on alcohol prohibition and then the drug war? Yup.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        I think that the threats are nothing but fiction. If you believe that horse shit is true you’ve been played for a chump. You did get the part of the story that it was all hypothetical, right? Did I forget to mention that there were no gay people refused service from that pizza parlor? Nope, that rhetorical question is about 70% cut and paste from my post above.

        If someone sticks a knife in a wall outlet they’ll find it a shocking experience. But what in the world makes you think that absent the Indiana RFRA that these pizza dealers would have been compelled to cater any gay weddings? Why the heck would a gay couple want to hire people that hate them to cater their wedding? The entire controversy is manufactured, hypothetical and has about as much chance of being real as does the idiotic claims that only the prohibition laws stand in the way of everyone becoming a heroin addict.

        $700k? Well at least something good has come out of this. For a long time I’ve believed that it’s a public service to separate fools from their money.


        • peoria_dude says:

          The death threats were not fiction, they were well documented in articles, including a couple over twitter for the world to see.

          The reporter who originally went to interview the pizza place was totally irresponsible with the story, so I’d agree the story was mostly manufactured. However, the reaction to the story was not manufactured, and I think it was a sad display of mob mentality that led to death threats against the pizza place owners.

          Why would a gay couple try to hire this place to cater a wedding? Before that story ran, I doubt it would have happened. But now it could happen so someone can sue them out of business as punishment for being anti-gay. We’ve seen it happen to anti-gay photography studios, bed & breakfasts, and bakeries from lawsuits in other states. Not saying it’ll happen, but it could.

          Not sure what you are disagreeing with or why, but perhaps you read more into my comment than was actually there.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          Highly doubtful that they were “proven”…exactly how difficult is it to post something on twitter? “Proven” for any schmuck only concerned with having his bias confirmed. Sue them out of business? For the love of god they’ve already quit. Even so, I thought the RFRA protected their rights to be fag bashers? Can’t you at least be consistent? Are they going to be murdered or sued out of business?

          That bullshit is a typical tactic of the enemies of freedom. I’ll tell you what, give me a call when there are indictments and I’ll revisit my categorizing you as the enemy of freedom which you so obviously are.

        • peoria_dude says:

          “Highly doubtful that they were “proven”…exactly how difficult is it to post something on twitter? “Proven” for any schmuck only concerned with having his bias confirmed. Sue them out of business? For the love of god they’ve already quit. Even so, I thought the RFRA protected their rights to be fag bashers? Can’t you at least be consistent? Are they going to be murdered or sued out of business?

          That bullshit is a typical tactic of the enemies of freedom. I’ll tell you what, give me a call when there are indictments and I’ll revisit my categorizing you as the enemy of freedom which you so obviously are.”

          What’s the purpose of the hostility here? You are just building all kinds of straw men, so you can finish off by calling me the enemy of freedom. What precisely did I say that led you to that conclusion? Nothing that I can see.

          I’m just talking about what I’ve seen from the news surrounding the pizza place in Indiana. If you don’t believe any of what can easily be found around the internet, fine, but there’s no need to call me a schmuck.

          About the sue them out of business comment, I was answering your question, which perhaps you forgot about. “But what in the world makes you think that absent the Indiana RFRA that these pizza dealers would have been compelled to cater any gay weddings? “

          I said no one probably would’ve asked or compelled them to cater a gay wedding before this story broke. But now that the story has broke that they are (in your words) fag bashers, there are activists out there that would use the courts to compel the pizza place to cater a same-sex marriage. I know they quit, but that has no relevance to the hypothetical I used that answers your hypothetical question.

          “Can’t you at least be consistent? Are they going to be murdered or sued out of business?”

          The death threats, which you don’t believe, fine, are a completely separate matter as the potential for a law suit would be. The two matters are not either/or as you assume. My consistency is just fine, but its a little ridiculous for you to ask if they are going to be murdered or sued.

          I don’t know anything about criminal investigations into the threats or if there will be any. There rarely are in those situations unless its a ranking public official. But if thats what it will take for you to believe threats were made, bully for you.

          Threats like that are all too common when some hot take issue gets people riled and we see it all the time. Anti-abortion activists, environmental activists, racists, religious cults, and all across the spectrum there are hot headed crazies capable of making such threats. Its sad that it happens all too often.

          As I understand the RFRA in Indiana, it would protect the pizza place from a civil lawsuit in the event they refused to cater a same-sex marriage. They would be allowed to argue in court that they refused to cater the wedding on religious grounds. I don’t agree with those religious grounds and I think the pizza place would be stupid to refuse to cater such a wedding, but I’m not prepared to compel them to do so or be sued out of business if they refuse.

          Just like I’m not prepared to lock Native Americans in jail for using peyote. A RFRA law granted them the religious freedom to continue using peyote. Another RFRA law granted the Amish the religious freedom from compulsory enrollment into Social Security and Medicare. Indiana’s RFRA appears that it might go to far in allowing business to refuse services, but its not all bad, and not all RFRAs are bad as I illustrated above. It appears you may have a bias that all RFRAs are bad which resulted in your unwarranted hostility.

    • Hip to be Triangled says:

      Duncan and what he did for my Wife or the story of a foot being motivated to move forward:

      My wife supports legalizing pot, but she at many times can put it on the backburners and keep her mouth shut over fear or forgetting it i.e. inertia for her part in the movement, but she is loud regardless when it comes to something she knows and is passionate about: chatty. One day, a specific malady was in my wife’s train of thought because of her job in healthcare and I’ve turned her a little off to legalization because I talk about it like a Jack-in-the-Box going off at a quarter of a full rotation: all the time. Well, I remember something you wrote (I’m sure it was you) about you meeting a Famous doctor/scientist whose research on marijuana are well known and I’ve heard of him before sitting on the couch but you were far more in-depth. And you were correct and I told her about how it positively affects said condition and compared it to non-cannabis drugs treating it. She is a little more gung-ho now to be someone who passes said info on because you had the answer that troubled her. All my co-workers know about you and they know about DdC, Thinking, Clay, Kap, Easy, Dark C, Nor, Primus, Pete etc . . . I tell everybody in my world about you guys and even my father-in-law (notice the word ‘father’) and I’ve reduced friendships and strengthened some because I hit them with a truth that human–natural law requires us to know and act upon. My Boss is accustomed to the DrugWARRANT and he’s a ‘good ol’ boy’ who loves his God, land and cattle and has never heard any of your names nor laid eyes on this site–but he knows all that you and Pete say. That’s how we win: not by counting on the votes and the politicians, but the people in our lives who have nothing to do with this. My neck of the woods respects my authority on ISIS’ drug money because I’m obviously the guy in the know (and still learning) because CNN does talk about them and I’m a firm believer barber shops and churches exist and have people in their talking about what is going on and yes, when talking about a military thingy to your people because the TV news has it on, it’s always good to remind them that a lot of our problems do stem from the fact that fighting drug money is financially harmful and gives us good reason to fear if we believe those killings in Europe are real and not the myths that the cops and politicians tell me everyday on TV. Too many people deny the existence of Boko Haram by ignoring known contributing factors her. I’m long winded and this is a place for us to refuel for conversation and even use this place for the topics of our actual groups we physically belong to like NORML or at rallies. When I talk about Iraq, immigration and terrorism, I have more sway over a Cop who is a Vet, because I can prove marijuana legalization isn’t about legalizing pot, since I’ll be speaking in the language of violence and the most logical percentage that drug money created for said terrorist act/war, instead of talking to him about medicated foods and bong hits for cancer. People don’t like hearing about bad things happing to children but they have to hear it and let’s say the world consists of 1.7 billion kids between the ages of 1day old through 18 and sadly the odds dictate that roughly (just throwing a number) 75 million get sexually abused/forced into prostitution. Now let’s say out of that 75 million, the existence of drug laws and drug money creates (or adds to) the environment where 4.2 million kids are victimized sexually. Brooklyn is in America and has more drug related crimes than small town Idaho, but Libya as a lot more than Brooklyn because of what’s going on now, so we’ll find victims everywhere where drugs are illegal. People care about kids. Does 25% of every American kid need cannabis or Crack for medicine? So what’s the point of legalizing the white hard stuff? I know school teachers who care about kids and they don’t want kids from other places to be killed in a war they are technically affecting via approval of American drug laws, which I believe is very influential for other nations. I know Republicans who are gung-ho about sending aid for terrorism, but not other aid and they will be thrilled if they knew we could reduce terrorism aid if we reduced terrorism i.e. 75 minus 5 is not 80 and is less than 75: common sense found through the legalization of molly and crystal meth (and pot).

      So in short, I believe we can win this big thing beyond pot if we all remember to talk about the drug war in every conversation and what are the odds the News talks about the Middle East and terrorism? What are the odds that any of us go to a barber shop or to a job or school? The sounds of gun shots are so loud, I must yell about road side bombs and drug money . . . beheadings and drug money. We will be very weak once we win legal pot because I’m not going to support giving cancer patients crystal meth and I’m not going to just support decriminalization as long as a single weapon exists on planet earth. Are we setting a dangerous trend for ending the War on Drugs because legal pot is way to obvious with how many more users/non-users there are who support it, the safeness of it and medical benefits? How do we win against the WAr on Crack and Heroin when there are no benefits to legalizing it and treating it like Marijuana/alcohol? It is up to us if we want all drugs legal or not and we control when. One person at a time since common sense dictates that one of the first thought in one’s mind when the topic is on Ukraine, Kenya, Immigration, gangs, ISIS etc is drugs/drug money. Any amount of funding is still funding and that represents people who could have been spared.

  8. MajadGilligan says:

    The war on drugs will be seen as the Dark Ages of human medical and scientific development. If you want the truth from your government, look the opposite way to where they are pointing. What a tragic fiasco the war on narcotics turned out to be for Mexicans and other South American countries. Beheadings are as common in rural Mexico as they are in the Middle East; the common denominator is America’s war on drugs and terror. A war that starts with an invasion does not appear to be a good idea. A blanket ban on herbs and psychedelics that indigenous peoples had been using for thousands of years does not sound like a good idea.”

    Governments are not to be trusted

  9. Hip to be Triangled says:

    I was a drug war victim twice: arrested for pot and a pipe the first time and then sent to Iraq to fight drug money the second time I became a victim of our hypocritical and mean drug laws. Because of this, I have more skin in the legalization game than the vast majority of my peers. Who would you donate money to: a man without a penny, or a man who already had lots of money, thus proving his intent is real–who will do his will regardless of your donation, because he has money? Therefore we know 9/11 utilized a significant chunk of drug money and it is an established fact that Al Qaeda are officially billionaires in the drug game.

    ISIS needs drug money because of their expenditures, goals and struggle, thus we have proof they use drug money because they need it, or we have proof that ISIS has long been fizzled out (any amount of drug money is still drug money) . . . if we have proof that ISIS is in Iraq, then we have proof that they utilize Golden Crescent Poppies, but only if we have evidence to support the location of Iran being a neighboring country to Iraq . . . and Iran is a Golden Crescent member (common sense proves they use some amount of drug money funding, thus to admit it is to live in the real world, to realize that ‘supposed’ ideology doesn’t change the size of the shoes humans walk in: cops have been known to sell dope and dope is illegal, thus further proving that drug hatting/ marijuana burning ISIS sells dope). Walking on that foreign land inside the Iraq war only adds to what the books and research tells me since those who live inside the ‘study’ have more access to facts than those who only have access to documents and books (being inside the object gets me better access of knowing the object, as opposed to only looking at the object from a distance).

    Is it OK to have sex with a child? That’s the big question which is not answered yet by the American people overall. Having sex with children is one of the best ways to install fear, punishment and authority and drug money makes it easier for the occurrence to happen. The American laws as it stands so far dictates that child rape is legal if and only if created out of drug money. The act of enforcing the drug laws creates drug money and drug money creates more child rape than what would normally occur, thus the act of drug enforcement is the act of having sex with a child if we can prove drug money exists and if we can prove Mexico is violent and Afghanistan is Violent etc. because of how drug money is used. Therefore cops and judges and district attorneys etc. are pedophiles (if I gave you money to commit a murder and you did it–society would also look at me as a murderer too, though I never had blood on my hands, just dollar bill ink) and terrorists since cops get paid to give drug money to criminals via the enforcement of the law that automatically creates said circumstances and said phenomena. I blame a cop before I blame the politicians who created law since the law is capable of dissolving if the law has no willing participants, thus this shows the true nature of those who work in Law Enforcement: Sex Offenders who attacked America on 9/11–who also behead Christians and Muslims in Libya and Syria. If drugs are illegal because they are dangerous than that is all the evidence we need to prove that cars, obesity, alcohol etc are currently illegal because of their likelihood of danger and risk. But if a cop won’t arrest you for being overweight or for simply driving a car, but will arrest you for drugs, just shows that they are aggressive, mean spirited humans (but for only those that enforce the drug laws) whose main goal in life is to hurt, rob, rape and destroy.

    I was only 18 and fresh out of school and into university when Pearl Harbor part 2 happened to America and if we have evidence to prove American troops went to Asia or Europe for WWII, then those who went to Iraq or Afghanistan are vindicated after witnessing Pearl Harbor part 2. I’m only as guilty for my services as those who did not boycott the ‘defense’ portions of their taxes. I will not buy a TV I do not need nor want, thus all who have paid fully all their taxes needed me to go to Iraq–if to only learn firsthand about the Terror-drug nexus our nation has created, so I could make a difference afterwards. Your mother and daddy do not want to have sex with children or fly airplanes into buildings, but that’s what they do when they pay for a cop’s salary and thus we have evidence to prove the legalization of Crystal Meth etc. has little to do with those individual drugs since nowhere in the concepts of ‘sex offender’, ‘terrorism’ and ‘murder’ did the idea or image of people snorting crank or taking a bong rip ever appear. So we need to let the American people know the truth: drug legalization really is not about drug use and it is not about the personal freedom to consume said drugs, but the personal freedom to not be murdered or go to war. Don’t just support legal pot because you want to smoke risk free, but because you think a child has the right to life and not forced sodomy. Vets with Asperger’s see the War on Drugs from a different and just as clear lens.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      Wow, that’s a lot of zebras HtbT!

      • Hip to be Triangled says:

        Not just Zebras, but I met a man once who sincerely believed that the average car (Cadillac size let’s say) trunk can hold roughly $300,000 in stolen automobiles being smuggled. That’s not logical I told him. But a car trunk can hold well over $300,000 in smuggled dope, which is why I also believe drugs are a god-send for people wanting to make fast cash . . . It is very hard for me to walk around with a thousand in pirated DVDs in my pocket, but I could with coke. This man also told me that the Average Car user buys a new (or used) car once a month. I told him he was wrong, but the average dope user buys a new bag (or used–stomped on) of dope once a day to once a month, which means there is really no money in selling pirated electronics and cars or downloads. I told him the market for quality dope and bad dope is good enough that one could buy a new gun with the money every day. But the competition for stolen car is just so tight, considering most of us don’t buy a legal or stolen car everyday, let alone once a year. Same thing for gasoline that comes from legal or illegal oil: most of us don’t fill our cars up full everyday with gasoline, but the majority of drug users probably buys dope more than they buy gasoline, which makes oil not the best choice for money, though a damn good choice considering we have more oil users on the planet than we do drug users. I think people who need a lot of money, need a lot of money and it’s rational to obtain it from numerous sources when one’s needs could never be fully met on the financial side of things.

        If the majority of drug users only know about the drug laws from the perspectives of having to buy it illegally and possibly facing jail and a little street violence, then the majority of Americans will understand that too. But if the majority of drug users or even Americans knew about the drug laws from the effects of not just going to jail, but having an airplane crash into one’s office or a bomb blow up one’s home, then I think the tone has changed and I think the necessity and eagerness is thus affected more so than just going to jail or to a distrustful drug dealer. Every man I’ve know who went to jail for dope lived long enough to get their story heard or their lawyer to help them, but every dead person I’ve encountered from what drug money can buy, faced more difficulties when getting justice or living long enough to get their lawyer or story heard.

        Yes, the world is filled with Zebras, but let’s be real: Zebras are in danger of drug money funded wars/violence in regions where Zebras exist. Think about the Zebras I tell myself, not just about the freedom to light up this pipe in my hands.

      • Hip to be Triangled says:

        A new way to respond to your Zebra Comment:

        I know you love Zebras and love to feed, protect and take care of them, as do I (and so does everyone on the couch, fore if we didn’t love Zebras, we wouldn’t be on here now would we). But by a chance of events, I was taught a different way to love, feed, protect and take care of them and thus I have utilized it in my daily life when taking care of the zebra. Since I know you love Zebras, it only behooves you to hear about this new way of taking care of them if it ends up being an improvement to the existing way of nurturing Zebras. I long to hear about all your adventures in Zebra care and so I read what you write, for it also makes me a better Zebra nurturer . . . and I read other’s comments and reports about Zebra care as well–just so I can get better at Zebra loving.

        Pete’s couch is more than just a spot for us to pass the joint on and for the opiate lovers to nod off on, but it’s to be a place where ‘We maneuver the way the drug war ends’, since it’s the commitment of the couch that rocks the world (or should). What we do on the couch is meant to affect what is done on High Times and what is done by various legalization groups. Who are they to not listen to us and obey our time proven methods of activism? The kind of minds that sit on the couch means we are the ones who pull all the punches and it’s the rest of everybody else who follows us. I wouldn’t waste my time if the couch wasn’t meant to lead the way legalization is meant to be led. Do you really think NORML and SSDP know how and why to legalize drugs the way we do? Pete complements my lust for characters like Derrida and Husserl (I’ve only sampled them, I’m not a speed reader or a speed user) and I study the drug war from their works because I know the War on Drugs isn’t always being fought the right way. I know there are many who support legalization but they don’t read a lot of books or travel to a lot of blood stained lands, thus they don’t fight the drug war with all weapons available to them because nobody told them about the option to use a along with the glock you gave them and that’s where I step in: I know where a is and how to operate it, just like you’ve helped me learn how to use some weapons that your experiences taught you. Maybe Pete’s website is really nothing and I’m wasting my time on it, or maybe I’m correct and view this site as the historical/philosophical front it is and we are meant to be more influential than high times, than pro-pot reporters, pro-pot politicians etc . . . We feed them, not the opposite. I will personally throw away all my weed if you find anything false. As a lover of words and reading anything from Apollinaire to Russell, it usually takes me an hour or three to post anything on here because I’m always editing it for accuracy, thus I don’t think you’ll find one flaw outside of a misspelled word and a rebellious comma (I have 4.5 gram of Blue Dream and Green Crack–I accept the challenge) . . . my experience and all my time reading you guys on DrugWarrant have made me a fine tuned machine practically incapable of flaws when regarding the subject of ‘Drug War’ (a man who goes to the gym all the time typically gets stronger than the one who doesn’t). Why put my trust in just researching the facts from others, when the couch, researching others and the war has made me an authority on the War on Drugs as well? There are people who follow us because we are the real deal . . . our ideas move the movement and we should have more authority than Snoop Dog or Seth Rogan since I’ve never herd them talk about the violence in Syria in regards to what the War on Drugs can do to human flesh. But I promise you, I will be loud enough that someone else visiting the couch will utilize my content and thus pass it down and hopefully Snoop Dog will be the one who further passes it down. I’m really tired of people talking about pot when it comes to the marijuana legalization movement: gunpowder smoke is nothing like good weed smoke. There is always the need to talk about the benefits of the plant and the logic behinds its necessity for legalization, but the conversation is still too tilted at the notion of ‘freeing the herb’ and not freeing the mortician’s schedule and U.S. Military’s role in the Middle East via drug legalization. Do you believe Russia invaded Ukraine? If so, then you’ll believe the Russians realize that some drug money is less provable than some legal money since legal money comes from a legal and traceable source–when it comes to funding the Rebels and of course it behooves the Ukrainian government to install some designated drug dealers for the purpose of offsetting some of the financial burdens that a war with Russia would cause. The CIA’s role in dope only proves that most governments sell/sold illegal drugs, unless human nature is never the same. Duncan, have you told a cop about every little bit of dope you’ve done, bought and who you bought off? No, so the U.N.’s estimate of $350-400 Billion in annual drug sales is close, but only an understatement of the true value the drug black market makes. I’ve never told the cops a thing about my habits and who I buy from, thus they lack information for their report about the overall drug problem of my community–only an estimate from what they’ve caught and from snitches spilling their guts (though they won’t spill 100% out). It is up to you and me to find the value not given and that which is unknown because truth exists regardless if it’s known or not i.e. The Theory of Relativity was as valid in 1154 A.D. as it was in 2014 true–even if Einstein didn’t find it until the 20th Century. When a human is correct in their calculations, though misunderstood, it often looks like said person gave their horse pot brownies. What’s the point of this couch if we only fight the drug war the same way it has been fought? Pot is too easy to legalize, how many of you can sell crack like pot? For those of you who cannot stomach child rape, I can sell the legalization of crack and make it look as pretty as pot legalization is. For those of you who think Bush was wrong for going to Iraq: Legalizing Crack will help assuage your anger with Bush and give us justice. Fuck pot legalization’s microcosm of reasons being the loudest voice. The dead are louder than a million bong rips happening all at once. If Syria isn’t as proportionately equal to medical marijuana’s benefits, then said person may not understand the War on Drugs the way they should. Pot is good for ending pain and reducing inflammation . . . reducing the money of Boko Haram uses also is good for ending pain and reducing inflammation. Tokers talk too much about healing their bodies with bud, but don’t talk the same amount of talk about healing the consequences of war. The talk of being jail free and using medical pot are the only cylinders and pistons being used in this machine . . . why not make our car faster by adding more cylinders and pistons.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          Nah, you missed the context.

          “When you hear hoofbeat, think horses. Not zebras.” It’s basically a variation of Ockham’s Razor.

    • Hip to be Triangled says:

      It is a different brand of Legalization Advertisement that most Americans don’t have their eyes on or ears open to (as perceived):

      I push it only because I think Pot legalization focuses too much of it’s efforts on legalizing the marijuana plant for it’s total effects and the obvious hypocrisy behind it (the current legalization movement disturbs me). Not everybody gets high and not everybody will have a sickness which needs cannabis and once pot is legalized, much of our cause will die like a joint coming to its end because let’s face it: Crystal Meth is not the same as marijuana.

      If the direct consequences of drug prohibition is crime, crimes that not even the users are involved in (beyond possession), crimes that even ‘dirty’ cops do–a law that naturally negates law and order and the philosophy of law itself: Do we have proof that Rape and Robbery are illegal in America? I bet a quarter ounce of Green Crack that we don’t have proof that rape and robbery are criminal offenses in America because an illegal law (drug laws) being enforced would automatically negate the job and role of the police and courts and jails because logic stands at the notion that ‘not doing your job’, gets one fired(enforcing drug laws that negate other laws through consequences while corrupting stable axioms of said reason for other laws). Therefore we have physical proof that America does not have a legally standing or legally employed judicial system and LE officers (I can call myself a rocket scientist and it doesn’t make it so . . . enforcing illegal laws makes one not a cop/judge/jailor/DA).

      Therefore We legalize all drugs because we need to outlaw rape, murder, organized crime, criminal gangs, theft etc. NO FEDERAL or State laws can exist in a vacuum . . . all elections are illegal if said elected officials work with a law that corrupts all laws. We have no proof Bush or Obama were ever legally elected to office. All universities and schools that teach compliance with drug laws and offer degrees to any police officers, judges, DA etc who engage in drug laws (like law degrees/criminal justice)–all universities are thus negated and not lawful, thus corrupting all our degrees if any of us got degrees from a University that offered courses that adhere to the practice of the drug laws and the mechanics thereof. The drug laws are a pox on all legal binding documents and all government jobs because no government can exist with no laws and no workers, since the drug laws negates all that is inside the law and government. This is chaos since no towns have mayors and no parks have rangers. Our very lives are in danger because drug laws exist, which technically and legally means that we do not have cops on the streets protecting us because we have no legally binding laws on the books outlawing theft, murder, rape, corruption etc. The Drug laws are a way of cheating the law and cheating is a negation of the victory/accomplishment/goal/job. All justice strives for perfection and the drug laws destroy that, thus further proving that cops don’t arrest people, but kidnap them and hold people for ransom and even force many into slavery . . . they even do this to thieves, drunk drivers, murderers and rapists: none of them get arrested or go to jail for a violation of the law, since law does not exist and we have no proof of its existence as seen in any and all environments that have these drug laws.

      There is more than one way to skin a corrupt set of laws. There is too much emphasis on marijuana when it comes to the topic of pot legalization and coming from a small town–that’s a turn off for the populace and it doesn’t do me any good. There is no such thing as medical marijuana–it’s all just for filling the hippies pipes because they like to get high and that’s a Republican fact, which can be proven since we have no medical marijuana in our state, thus no proof it does any good. So, I think a small town momma and poppa are more concerned and thus sympathetic to child rape and radical Islam’s victims and the celebrations of Vets coming home/not coming home: all of which are totally affected by the War on Drugs and in many cases were totally caused my the phenomena of outlawed drugs (Mexico) as opposed to just worsening a problem independent of drug laws (Radical Islam).

      The current trend in ‘Marijuana Legalization’ will only hurt us in the long run because let’s face it: medical Crack–Medical PCP? By shoving in all our ammo at Pot because it is just obvious as to why it should be legal (focusing on the plants positive attributes/negative attributes of jail for it), we are isolating the isomer of bloodshed being the main reason to legalize all drugs (better to be in jail than to let a child die in a war). Therefore it will slow our efforts at drug legalization since heroin is not very good for epileptic children or for staying addiction free when it comes to enjoying a good high after work (though pot is good for both). What mom needs medical meth for their sick child or for grandma’s memory disease? I hate meth and yet feel it needs to be legal like it once was back in the old days.

      The Pot Legalizers are dancing around a cloud of smoke created out of legally burning plants, when we should be putting out the fires created by bomb blasts financed by drug money. These happy Pot legalizers are not making it easy for me in the land where marijuana is the same thing as meth . . . maybe we can get a little medical by 2017, but not rec and it should not be up to States since we have no proof pot is lawfully unlawful or we have proof that States can outlaw religion and guns if they so decide if the issue is left up to the States. The image of pot legalization is shrouded in thick leafy–flowery delicious buds. How are we going to make crank and smack look as good as pot? We’ve set a deadly trend: legalize because it’s logical, safer and medically healthy etc. That trend will be hard to break for crack and speed, since nobody uses those drugs as much as we use cigarettes, sugar, beer and pot. Legalize pot and the world is left with $175 Billion a year from other illegal drugs–left to criminals and warlords.

      But everything happening in Africa has traces of illegal drugs making it worse and if you believe dope was illegal in the 90’s, then you’ll believe that dope money killed literally thousands of non-drug users in Rwanda (if all the war and genocide only cost both sides a total of $100 Million, then logic dictates that 8% or less or more in drug money existed in that sum total of $100 million . . . that’s thousands of lives which could have been spared had dope been legal and yet the drug laws were not the thing that started the violence as seen in places like Mexico, Central America and Guinea-Bissau.

      I guess I just dream differently and I have physical proof that marijuana legalization really isn’t about legalizing pot . . . we all have that proof. But Colorado, California, Washington and the other heavy hitter states with legal or medical are not playing for keeps when it comes to legalization, but only playing for marijuana because it smells good, looks good, tastes good, is healthy for you and safer for you. NO, I fear pot legalization is just not as potent as the pot itself . . . instead of a One hitter quitter move, the momentum of the movement has decided not to fully emphasize the part about pot legalization that is on all of our minds: ISIS, Ebola, School shootings and mall shootings in Africa, Global Warming, Arabian Airstrikes in Yemen, Terrorism, Syria, Israel, Immigration, Russian aggression, Americans visiting Cuba etc.

      Can anybody give me a practical reason why we don’t talk about the kidnapping of all those girls in Nigeria when we talk about marijuana legalization and the reason for it is? To not mention what has happened in Kenya when rallying the people to legalize pot is inconceivable and fucks up what is ‘common sense’ in the existence of phenomena/activity that occur in our daily life. Why has our Hero Kevin (Kev-Kev) not brought up the Charlie Hebdo shootings when telling us why he is right and we are wrong(since its obvious that maintaining a computer site costs money and a little drug money helps grease the gears of proficiency and people have been known to use computers and be active on web-sites in the past–and the internet is not just for British and American teenagers going to Syria, but is also used by various lone wolves)

      I love this couch and let’s not get too comfortable on it, after all, we utilize each other’s comments when strengthening our resolve. hardly any of you on the couch lucked out at being a male 2001 HS graduate witnessing Peal Harbor pt.2 in real Time HD, therefore it’s only natural for pot legalization to also be about everything I have said when talking about ISIS and Nigeria and Yemen and the December 2008 Paris Terrorist ‘warning’ I saw first hand while on holiday–not even 2 moths removed from Baghdad. The right to not die should be more important than the right to get high and its just so frustrating that the macro-voice for pot legalization only talks about legalizing marijuana and not criminalizing murder, rape, terrorism etc.

      • NorCalNative says:

        Hip to be Triangled, you make lots of good points and it’s obvious you’ve given this stuff a lot of thought.

        You’ve reminded me of the importance to “sell the end of the drug war itself,” rather than focus so much on freeing the weed.


        • Hip to be Triangled says:

          If I sound like a broken record for the next years on here, it’s because I’m trying to shake the dead out of my head. They get stuck like water in the ear after a long delicate shower. When we win the Red-Rover Red-Rover game in pot, we’ve got to keep our hands closed over each other’s. That is why the couch is monumental in comparison to the ‘too many to remember’ pro-legal sites I’ve seen–sampled. The river is much deeper and swifter on our side of the conference and we’ve got shovels the size of drunk bastards to dig deeper trenches for the rest on the movement block–so the water will flow evenly.

  10. ‘Vitamin Weed’: How Everyone Can Benefit From Daily Cannabis Oil

    Dr. Ross is a neuroscientist and former drug researcher for the National Institute on Drug Abuse, turned medical marijuana advocate.

    • DdC says:

      We need more Dr. Ross’ rejecting NIDA nonsense. Each day a new discovery, a new way to help sick people and unemployed. Tommy was right, we are winning the war on drugs. Just makes me sick how they continue grasping to hold onto their persecution of Americans. Good thing I have a remedy for Moldy Prohibitiots.

      Charges Against Rick Simpson Withdrawn
      Run From The Cure

      Amazing Recovery After Sick Girl Drinks Raw Cannabis Juice.

      Medical Marijuana and Lupus: What You Need to Know

      Psychedelic Drugs ‘Safe as Riding a Bike or Playing Soccer’

      Denver holds first ever marijuana jobs fair
      Looking for a job in the legal marijuana business? There’s an app for that.

      Prohibition was introduced as a fraud; it has been nursed as a fraud. It is wrapped in the livery of Heaven, but it comes to serve the devil. It comes to regulate by law our appetites and our daily lives. It comes to tear down liberty and build up fanaticism, hypocrisy, and intolerance. It comes to confiscate by legislative decree the property of many of our fellow citizens. It comes to send spies, detectives, and informers into our homes; to have us arrested and carried before courts and condemned to fines and imprisonments. It comes to dissipate the sunlight of happiness, peace, and prosperity in which we are now living and to fill our land with alienations, estrangements, and bitterness. It comes to bring us evil – only evil – and that continually. Let us rise in our might as one and overwhelm it with such indignation that we shall never hear of it again as long as grass grows and water runs.
      — Roger Q. Mills of Texas, 1887,
      quoted repeatedly during a December 1914
      debate in Congress over alcohol Prohibition

      • DdC; The link for William F. Buckley, Jr. 1983 in the National Review went dead, and that was source on his quotes. Can’t find a good proof source anymore. Do you know of an original source print available on the net?

        • DdC says:

          Interesting. Found a 1983 NR, though not with my money. Enough various sources used the quote and heard him speak. The NR went far rightious after firing Buckley’s kid. I don’t keep up with them or Buckley outside of his logic of prohibition and the drug war. They can weasel out of archives or maybe its a members only access. The quote is 1983 and yet archives that year and some others are missing | 1980 | 1986 | 2001 | 2003 | 2004 | 2005 | 2006 | 2007 | 2008 | 2010 | 2011 | 2013 | 2014

          This says The National Review Archive (1955-present) but select month button only goes back to Dec, 2001.

          I’d tend to believe someone has a hard copy of the rag. I have the Oct 69 LIFE so this should be available. If they purposely censor it then it only shows the lack of integrity on their part. As if this was needed for that purpose. Ug! Or they just want to make 10 bucks on it. The quote has been around forever with plenty of chances for Buckley to dispute it. Curious. Maybe Nixon is slowly leaking bogus quotes as subterfuge? But, like so many others, who gives a damn, if its true it’s true.

          By William Buckley
          Lost political causes
          Is marijuana fear a myth?
          McWilliams at bat
          Perjury everywhere?
          In Pursuit of Truth & Justice in California
          William F. Buckley Requiescat In Pace

          too much for here… continued
          Alleged Commentary in The National Review, April 29, 1983, p. 495

  11. DonDig says:

    I’ve received so much information and education on the drug war, (and much more), in the last six or seven years here, the benefits can hardly be overstated.

    And I came here already considering myself fairly well informed, having researched as much of this as I had time for, for the last 35 years or so, (which used to be a lot harder to do).

    Pete deserves serious credit (and appreciation) for continuously getting the word out.

    Thank you Pete (and couchmates) for the perspective and the company.

  12. Chris says:

    Tommy Chong was at hash bash today! Definitely a bigger crowd than usual.

  13. Has anyone else heard about this, or is it an April fools from Kevin?

      • Duncan20903 says:


        People are such suckers when it comes to conflating cannabis and smoking tobacco. It’s one of the longest ongoing pieces of bullshit in American folklore and it demonstrates just how easy it is to scam people. I mean, it’s easy enough to go look up which company has registered which trademark. For example “Acapulco Gold” was a trademark attached to suntan lotion, the company is now defunct.

        It’s fucking illegal people. “Big tobacco” has never trademarked these names, because it’s fucking illegal to do that:

        94 In Hepperle, the Board found that, while ACAPULCO GOLD may be a synonym for marijuana, when the mark was applied to suntan lotion itwas likely to suggest, to the average purchaser, in a normal marketing milieu, the resort city of Acapulco, which is noted for its sunshine.

        It’s pushing 40 years since I first heard this scam. At least it wasn’t obvious nonsense in the pre-Reagan days but ever since anyone who has fallen for this one needs to send their bullshit detector to the shop for a tune up.

  14. Politics. Pretty funny subject. I thought the Indiana folks might like this:
    “Franken to Letterman: Run for Senate”

  15. Zebras/on/speed says:

    “Chris Minar works the front desk of the Takoma Wellness Center, the largest of the three. Minar was a D.C. police officer for 28 years, including eight years running “buy-and-bust” stings against small-time pot dealers. Now, when people show up to buy marijuana, he greets them by name and offers them coffee.”


  16. Elsewhere/on/the/interwebs says:

    Posted by Hyperion|4.4.15 @ 6:46PM|#

    “Well, this is it. The end of the world. Dogs and cats sleeping together, fish leaving the rivers and turning into cannibal zombie sheep, swarms of flying locust frogs. It’s all happening…”

  17. Hip to be Triangled says:

    The Business that went Down on Easter day 2015 in (give location): A fictional story inspired from various official and FBI crime files–witness accounts.

    “5 of them. All 12 years old and with the right conditioning: they’ll be Goddamn good in bed. And like wine: they’ll get better and prettier—God bless puberty. $10 grand a piece and I promise you—feed them, water them, don’t hit them all the time and they will more than triple your investment in under two years, or you can set your mind for more and get your money back sooner, depending on what kind of soldier you are: hard core or chil-lax. You know, I wouldn’t be talking to you if I didn’t trust you. I remember you were their age when you sold Mr. Pete’s grass and coke for him, then he got killed and I took a step of faith in you—invested in you and replenished what Mr. Pete was offering you. You rose up faster with me—I purified you with mine and you got wheels years later and spread my message of smoke and blow further on down the rode. Now look at you: an entrepreneur—got his hands in all sorts of investments now. I like hearing about that. Makes my pockets smile. I taught you well and knew you’d look to peruse a more meaningful relationship with me. You know, if you get tired of these girls, I can get you more at any time. But this ship sinks faster than a submarine filled with coke if it gets hit with the right kind of legal torpedo, so be careful and take full responsibility for your actions, so I don’t have to. Angela: Bring in the girls, show them to our friend, let them demonstrate some of the tricks we taught them. They can be like cute puppies—begging. And they are still virgins because that is a part of the deal.”

    I think the Drug War inflates and greases non-drug black market goods and services and occurrences.

    How does the War on Drugs affect the Ural Mountains and Peanut Butter? That’s obvious inside a very deep search through daily life by comparing it to ours (Hegelian I guess). The War on Drugs can be demonstrated throughout most aspects of life, because it is so horrible it creates a very wide ripple effect, from the sink-hole that is drug prohibition. The idea of certain (and many) endangered animals and tropical typhoons impacting the Pacific and Indian most of the time conjures up images of the War on Drugs and it’s impact of said animals and phenomena. A larger Island nation of millions would have drugs and drug corruption and the crime surrounding drug prohibition would impact a nation’s storm readiness by X% . . . the question is: is it a negative impact? I think so. We can go deeper to see if it’s a negative impact and we can look at Bananas or the economy of the Congo river in regards to villages fishing and farming along it, which is a very long no brainer for the couch.

    I think it would be fun if Pete posted a game every once in a while where he threw a random word-location-date-occurrence etc. and we can find the Drug War’s impact in it . . . sometimes more so and maybe we may find nothing in one of them: like Pg. 17 of the ‘Great Gatsby’—or would the Harrison Act affect Mr. Gatsby’s people who helped him make money and thus would pg. 17 contain a hint of the much earlier proto-Drug War beyond the given alcohol prohibition flavored period piece it is and I won’t even look at pg. 17 so as to not cheat in the odds game. Victims exist and we’ll find 420 Million more reason to legalize all of it for all the right reasons. Tell me how many times the war on drugs is mentioned in the Naughty By Nature song: ‘Hip Hop Hurray’ and the obvious ‘Hunger Games’ reference to the impact of the war on drugs in our time point out its residue in their time in regards to pharmaceutical synthetics and bizarre chemical warfare (Art imitates life). When the people wake up and look around them and see how the War on Drugs has puppet strings of cause and effect which are faintly or mightily attached to their everyday life and to the life of others, then we’ll win: we swim through a billion cobwebs spun from the drug war spiders and those little bastards sure bread a lot of babies that spin even more webs and make more babies etc repeat.

    • Fuck off! says:

      Why do I get the impression that you’re fucking with our heads/the thread?

      Pete, pleeeeaase remove this nonsense!

      • Pete says:

        I’ve got no clue. Looks like a mild case of logorrhea. I’m sure it’ll pass.

        • Hip to be Triangled says:

          I thought you intended your website to fit in with the modern day equivalent of all the thinkers and shakers to get all charged up and creative? Fore it was logorrhea that moved the people in Athens while thinkers talked and debated on topics. . . This couch is made up of the kind of people who influence the Salons, by creating the content that art shows feature.

          Mr. Fuck Off, I think you’ve got the wrong impression (I know you got the wrong impression). Can I humbly ask: what part of my content doesn’t fit daily life? I’m longwinded and am a regular. I have a medical condition where I can only talk (write) to human beings like my favorite college professors and philosophers and authors–can you imagine how difficult life is when the topic is only about Viking River Cruises and Beyoncé: have some sympathy. Pete’s sight is perfect for people like me who carry a sharp knife between my teeth so I can sneak up on the Drug War and cut her throat open and part of tactical combat operations does require me to utilize this site. I am not required to convers by the rules of ‘web chat’ because I have a medical condition whereas I can only communicate like this and we don’t discriminate on the couch regardless of sex, race, height, weight, medical conditions, fabric preferences etc.

          Experimentation in thinking or we can prove hardly anyone uses the internet for communicating.

        • Pete says:

          You’re quite welcome here. I’m not deleting your posts. It’s just good to understand that long paragraphs don’t play well on the web. If you’re going to be long-winded (and also want to be read), break up the post a bit more, so it’s easier to find digestible chunks.

        • primus says:

          HIP: All true, all irrelevant. You haven’t yet learned the art of brevity. Your content is fine, but the size of your posts is off-putting. If you want your stuff to be read, then write it well–and short.

        • Hip to be Triangled says:

          I do expect length to be a turn off for some. But if we all wrote short stuff here, then not even 25% of the drug war victims will be accounted for.

          The Easter Day Prostitution flash fiction short story is in essence within the confines of what is brevity and I could have sold it with ‘Ebola and the War on Drugs’ as well. Anything longer is necessarily longer just because I don’t believe it’s physically possible to condense stats, odds and proofs. If I wrote only to get everybody to read it, then I’ve failed since this is where I practice for what will go down on paper in the fight against the Drug War. I use the couch for my own means and for the bigger picture I’m painting with my own one on one fight against the War on Drugs.

  18. Why marijuana legalization isn’t like gay marriage

    My comment there is awaiting moderation. He says constitutional law is above his pay grade. I see why he makes the disclaimer. Common sense may be above his pay grade too.

Comments are closed.