Whenever you think the DEA can sink no lower…

Step 1: Force Pot Clubs To USe Cash. Step 2. Bar Them From Hiring Guards. Step 3: Finger-Wag About Drug Violence

… the Drug Enforcement Administration has ordered security and armored vehicle companies to quit serving state-legal cannabis providers, according to industry sources.

The DEA, an arm of Holder’s Department of Justice, confirmed the order to The Huffington Post, but wouldn’t elaborate.

Armored vehicles allow California’s legal medical marijuana dispensaries a secure way to transport large amounts of cash. The services are critical, since federal authorities pressured banks and credit card companies to stop servicing the pot industry in 2011.


Good article by Ryan Grim, but he couldn’t get anyone from the DEA to speak on the record, so he ended up talking to some idiot instead who knows nothing about policy and had nothing useful to say.

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64 Responses to Whenever you think the DEA can sink no lower…

  1. darkcycle says:

    You DID catch Kevin’s little contribution to the issue, right? That reassembly of the facts is so transparently self serving and hypocritical, I’m thinking of dropping him a thank you note.

    • darkcycle says:

      BTW, you should mention Kevin Sabet by name as often as possible in your post’s titles. That draws the Sabateur/thumbs down troll. And it’s fun to bait it. As long as it’s wasting it’s time here on us, it’s not out in the larger web-world.

      • Citizen Teus says:

        I agree. As a matter of fact, I always feel a sense of pride when the TDT marks one of my infrequent posts.

  2. Jeff Trigg says:

    The Democrat run DEA, with Obama leading the way.
    Republicans have been the same.

    This is your Republican and Democrat parties with monopoly power. (Cracks egg in frying skillet.) Any questions?

  3. divadab says:

    By what authority can the DEA “order” armored car companies not to service a paying customer?

    How is it the federal government is acting in clear restraint of trade?

    The whole thing makes no sense – and who is that lying creep Sabet and why should anyone care what verbal diarrhea sprays from his mouth?

    • Scott says:

      To answer your question about authority, our federal government is limited to enumerated powers in our Constitution.

      The one that our Supreme Court has decided to become a “battering ram” for serious public servant interference into our lives (putting aside the unalienable right to liberty in the process, despite amendment nine) is the Commerce Clause.

      The original clause says “To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes”. Its well-documented intent was basically to prevent states from wielding law against national benefit to favor businesses at the state level.

      Somewhere in Supreme Court decisions, that was illegally redefined (our judicial branch can only interpret, not redefine, law) to ‘to regulate any activity having a substantial effect on commerce’.

      Since your thought activity determines all of your buying and selling decisions, so always has a substantial effect on commerce, our judicial branch must be authorizing our public servants to regulate your thoughts (or whatever they can get away with shy of that, until the public catches on).

      Exercising thuggery via law to prevent business relationships is well within the illegally seized power by our “public servants”. It’s called law abuse, and although our nation was violently established against this worst form of abuse due to its mainly broad scope of destruction, “We the people” tolerate law abuse (and all of the liberty-infringing damage extending from it as so-called legal precedence) to pretend to be doing something good about drug abuse.

      The public tolerates such law abuse, because they have been largely rendered clueless on the matter by the mainstream media and educational institutions (which do not even come close to properly teaching how our non-liberal/progressive government is supposed to work).

      I say non-liberal/progressive government, because that entire ideology cannot gain any traction nationally without the redefined Commerce Clause (and I challenge any potential ‘thumbs downer’ to prove otherwise). There simply is no constitutional authority to enable law abuse to go after money abuse (nor drug abuse), yet the political left is running illegitimately strong (by pretending to support the underprivileged whom, despite such law abuse, remain so), while the political right does basically nothing against such law abuse, because their actual constituents (the oligarchy actually running our nation, while upholding the guise of being a republic) benefit from such abuse.

      The reason why the political left and right are essentially producing the same poor (from society’s perspective) result is because they are doing a wonderfully competent (albeit unethical) job serving the oligarchy running our nation (from both the private and public sectors), not the constitutionally protected public they have all taken formal oaths to serve. It is called treason, and it will continue until the naturally increasing oppression from abusing the public to serve the oligarchy is once again corrected by the eventually revolting masses, an enormously violent tragedy that yours truly would prefer to avoid by seriously encouraging our national society (including patriotic public servants) to return to our national obligation, restoring our rule-of-law to oppose law abuse (largely by replacing risk-based law such as the Controlled Substances Act with risk-based education).

      Derived from the pathetic ‘just say no to drugs’ campaign costing a lot of precious taxpayer resources, I often encourage people with the following sound move…

      Just demonstrate no to law abuse.

      • divadab says:

        Scott – great rant! I think Wickard v. Filburn is the disgraceful Supreme Court judgment you are referring to. Terrible to contemplate that every branch of the federal government is corrupt and acting openly in opposition to its supreme law, the Constitution. What other conclusion can one come to on reviewing Raich v. GOnzales, where the corrupt Supremes ruled that a sick old woman, growing hemp flower medicine on her own property, for her one sole use, was subject to Federal sanction (loss of her personal freedom and confiscation of her property) by virtue of the Commerce Clause, despite the fact that NO COMMERCE was involved. It’s a sick, terrible joke – a usurper government of lies and unjust dominion.

      • DdC says:

        The newest prohibition by the same law abusers or as I call them, appeasers.

        Ban the do-gooders!

        Another shuck and jive bait and switch condemn the poor in the name of saveding them. Lavine should join the DEA. Its the chemicals added to cigarettes, not the tobacco used for centuries by hundreds of cultures. This prohibition has already created a billion dollar black market. It causes more homes to burn down trying to hide. It also attacks the poor the most raising prices so they go to generic brands with even more chemical poisons ADDED by corporations but never mentioned by the new drug worriers over smoking. Such Un-American acts might as well join the Wall St fascists. Lavine you are a punk and will never get support again. The dangers in smoking tobacco are inculcated by cheemicals since the 30’s. The other danger is prohibition, as if cannabis wasn’t enough proof of that.

        Same as the dung worriers good intentions, and we know where that leads. These do gooder laws at the end of the day only give corporate property management an arbitrary excuse to kick out tenants, as stated sometimes with no other options and a waiting list for years to get subsidized. Just their word for it is all the evidence required. Some apartments are 30 years old with carpets ringing in cigarette smells and walls stained causing smells regardless if the tenant even smokes. Banning outdoor use when highways spew toxins 20 feet away. What’s next ban roads and cars? In reality you only punish people trying to solicit favorable opinions as a good guy. Again at the end of the day you only hurt people, especially the poor and the kids evicted because their parents smoke on the back porch. Ridiculousness. Pitiful how far this country has sunk and how the Constitution has been turned into toilet paper.

        Organic Cannabis/Tobacco vs Chemical Cigarettes

        Follow CA or Bust’
        What happens when cops write initiatives.
        Ending D.E.A.th & Pillage Incrementally

    • Citizen Teus says:

      “By what authority can the DEA “order” armored car companies not to service a paying customer?”

      Well, it’s probably not an order as much it’s a warning that they’ll seize the armored cars via assert forfeiture. “Gee, that sure is a nice truck you have there. How much does one of those go for? It’d sure be a shame if you had to replace it, wouldn’t it?”

      Bunch of thugs.

      Can you picture it? An armed paramilitary group robbing an armored car in broad daylight on the city streets. Right out of a movie, but it would be “legal”.

      • Windy says:

        A commenter over at HuffPo thought it had something to do with federal licensing or federal insurance of armored cars, and the threat was such licenses/insurance would be withdrawn unless they comply with the fed gov’s wishes.

        • Citizen Teus says:

          I’ll admit I have no knowledge of the federal regulatory scheme for armored car companies. The scene I described above is pure fiction and intended for amusement. Having said that, what’s to stop them from using assert forfeiture? From the DEA’s point of view it’s simple, effective and has a ridiculously high success rate. In fact, it’s a two-fer, seize the truck and the cash. Cha-ching!

        • Windy says:

          If they were to seize the truck with all the money inside, they WOULD be seizing “legitimate” money from “legal” businesses and banks, too. Those armored cars do not just go from one business to the bank and unload, they pick up money/checks from many businesses before they deliver it to the bank(s).

  4. N.T. Greene says:

    I, for one, hope the security companies ignore this.

    The ones without federal contracts probably will. After all, the DEA lacks the authority to give this order, and I don’t see any shiny new legislation that gives them the authority.

    • Jeff Trigg says:

      You don’t need legislation when SCOTUS gave the DEA/feds the power under the “Commerce Clause” to continue the prohibition of cannabis in the Raich verdict. If the security company is doing work for a medical cannabis operation that the feds do bust, then the feds can prosecute the security company too. The same thing they are using to force landlords and banks to stop doing business with medical cannabis operations. Obama and his Democrats in power have been sending letters to landlords and banks threatening them with prosecution if they don’t cut all ties to medical cannabis operations. Of course the DEA has the authority to do this, we gave it to them with our votes. Well, some of us did. I don’t vote for power-monger scum.

      They (Ds and Rs) didn’t get Capone for bootlegging, they got him for tax evasion, and they are a whole lot smarter and better at that now, with tons of legislation passed to help them. Much of it thanks to Joe “Lock up Chong and his bong” Biden. Remember VP Biden’s legislation that allowed the DEA to prosecute property owners if someone got caught smoking a joint during a concert on their property? This security company crackdown is just using the same evil principles that Democrats and Republicans have always used.

      • N.T. Greene says:

        It is still underhanded at best.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        I might be mistaken but I think that the Feds are using anti-money laundering laws as the legal authority to threaten the armored car businesses.

        It’s really very, very easy to be guilty of money laundering. Ed Rosenthal got charged for money laundering because he bought a couple of money orders to pay his electric bill. I don’t doubt that transporting that money is a Federal offense.

  5. claygooding says:

    The only advice I can give a dispensary owner is to stash enough cash off site to recoup after the thieves leave.

  6. jean valjean says:

    poor old kev. he s really lost it now. this is desparate language

  7. claygooding says:

    This went out this am on FB and I would appreciate any editing or tweaking my couch mates could give it and/or help gather support with any advocacy group we know.

    Apparently Obama has seen the CNN special and even with the irrefutable proof of the ability of cannabis to treat epilepsy that pharmaceutical drugs cannot touch the government is still keeping cannabis as a schedule 1 drug and that is unacceptable to us,the patients and the recreational users of this miraculous plant.
    We can wait until 2014 and aggressively campaign against any legislators in our state and federal government that support prohibition or we can start gathering signatures too recall those legislators for failing to represent their constituents on medical marijuana reform.
    The polls show that over 80% of our population support the use of cannabis under a doctors care and the apparent disregard for that by our government is what will help us gather the signatures required to start alerting the prohibition supporters in our government that their days are numbered.
    I will be trying to get the petitions drawn up for the state of Texas and hopefully have them out in time for Labor Day weekend.
    I hope some of the advocacy groups will help in this,,if you know any of the leaders in one of those groups please alert them to this action,,if NORML or ASA would help write up the petitions for each state and each known opponent to MMJ they could post a pdf of the petitions for each state and the legislators needing to be recalled. At least they have someone that can get the petitions worded and structured correctly.
    Then all we have to do is print the petitions and get them out for signatures. The threat of so many legislators being recalled may bring more change than we have seen up until now. It is the most cost efficient manner to attack the prohibitionist in their lair,the congress.
    Please share this posting,,you can remove my name and use your own or if you can edit and rephrase the message better feel free,,the objective should remain the same,,to shake up congress and our state legislators by recalling the bought and paid for legislators in our government. “end”

    thanx guys

    • Windy says:

      Shared, after some minor editing.

      • claygooding says:

        Each state only has to go after one prohib,,preferably the loudest,,the rest will get the message,,even the petitions being circulated may show a bunch of politicians suddenly discovering marijuana is a medicine.

        • Windy says:

          I, just half an hour ago, wrote to both my State’s senators and my district’s congressional representative demanding they explain to me the dichotomy between government claiming cannabis has no medicinal uses while also holding a patent on cannabis describing it as a neuroprotectant. Wishing, now, I had saved a copy so I could post it here; it was GOOD. Requested a response so we’ll see what their form letter on this subject says in about 3 weeks (that’s how long it usually takes to get a response)

  8. ezrydn says:

    I still say we need to get on the “Liberty Amendment” train. It would be faster than waiting another 10 or so years. First, though, you need to read Levin’s book. It’s a great read. The movement for states-level Amendment Conventions are already under way. And it right there in our Constitution, Section 5. The Founders gave us a way to do this. Levin talks about what we’re all talking about, and he gives the solution that can put everything back in order, without the need of politicos involvement.

    • DdC says:

      I have a problem with this “shortcut”.

      The Government of the United States shall not engage in any business, professional, commercial, financial or industrial enterprise except as specified in the Constitution.
      The Liberty Amendment

      Corporations operate, profit and perpetuate the Ganjawar. Buying prohibition laws for the same profits. Using government employees as their own. This amendment is a corporate wet dream. Another kill the band aids but not the slasher. Local communities could ween themselves from government subsidies home growing Hemp and Ganja. Trading stalks and seeds at the local factories and mills like redeeming pop bottles. Then producing products to sell or utilize locally instead of government welfare. Food to sell at local farmers markets or organic stores or food directly for the poor, more nutritional than the food stamp frankenfuds they let slide.

      But until the controlled substance act is over turned, the commerce clause will give the feds authority over buying and selling or exchanges. This libertopian scam is to throw the baby out with the bath water. Another senseless but profitable attack on the middle class and poor, created by the very same legislators pushing this. There is no government. Its a word made up to box and blame issues. The people elected to government offices work for Wall St, especially the Pentagon and Prison, Pharma and Ag complexes. All making fortunes on prohibition and eliminating competition via prohibition.

      Got Hemp?

      Localize commerce and cut the Wall St/ DC umbilical cord. Without the hobgoblins and more silly gossip. Blaming Obama when Kucinich was the only democrat running is a weak excuse for voting lesser evils than the gop provided. How that converts to Obama is liberal or is back peddling about his Ganjawar stance is early signs of dementia or desperation. The commerce clause in Raich stated even individuals homegrown, but the CSA clearly states less than 100 plants to manufacture, transport, or possess (with intent) to exchange. Not just to possess. Also the IND sets precedent as to how much a patient should require for personal use medicinally at 300 joints every 25 days.

      Appeasing Nixon for 40 years paints a clear picture of whom is guilty of perpetuating the Ganjawar and it is also very clear both parties and the appeasing legalizers are guilty as sin. There is no logical, ethical, moral or Constitutional reason to ban Ganja or Hemp. Why would anyone barter with such insanity to get something passed that holds no weight? Profits is the only thing I can come up with. Fear and racism are tools and ideals are wisps of clouds the same as the gossip. With no bearing in the laws of physics, atoms or molecules. Ganja is or it is not, proven by testing tensile strength, durability, and nutritional value. Along with the most important medical test, how does it effect the patients. If it does no harm and helps then its silly to ban it other than justifying it for profits.

      So to side with the profiteers scheme to gut more protection from corporate fascism seems naive at best and flat out stupid at worse. Money is the root of all prohibitions, why should this one be different? Government can always do a better job for less money while money-sluts always say the opposite and always have to cut services and standards to maintain the profits on top with the same budgets. Government cuts out the profits. Simple as that. Corruption comes from Wall St. That is what we need to address. Remove profits from all Constitutional endeavors such as voting, election campaigns and especially the courts. Lawyers should not work for the corporate BAR. With private vs government keeping rich bad guys free and poor innocents caged. Same as the jury, lawyers should be chosen and assigned as defense or prosecutor when the jury is selected. The defendant should have no say in it anymore than deciding what cops to use to bust criminals. The only way to assure Lady Justice is blindfolded is to remove the money.

      Same with the public tax subsidized broadcasting companies on cable and the air ways should not be profiting on debates or selling ads to the richer or better sponsored candidate. This is all as obvious as the profits on the Ganjawar. So I have to conclude the sponsors of such a measure are also in it for the money and those seeking quick fixes are s.o.o.l. again. The Ganjawar is a dysfunctional product we the people buy. Don’t buy it. Starve the machine don’t fuel it. It’s impossible to fix a corrupt system within the corrupt system. Over turn the CSA including Ganja and Hemp and we can buy our way out of the Wall St addiction the same as we bought our way in. Oppression is oppression, it matters not if it’s corporate or monarch’s or elected officials abusing the laws. It’s oppression.

      There are currently nine States which have already endorsed the Liberty Amendment. These States and the year in which they endorsed the Amendment are:

      Wyoming (’59) • Nevada (’60) • Texas (’60) • Louisiana (’60) • Georgia (’62) • South Carolina (’62) • Mississippi (’82) • Arizona (’82) • Indiana (’82)

      Not exactly my first choice as vacation spots… Again states bust most of the cannabis possessors. Also states have the most draconian laws. State “governments” abuses are why we have federal safety nets and acts drawn up to stop abuses by states or corporations. So at the end of the day Libertopians gullibility following corporate mouthpieces is astounding. Gut the feds and give it to the more fascist states or cut them out and just give it to the fascists. The corporate world pollutes the rivers and its not called unconstitutional, rather it is called the right of the corporation to earn a living. Same as making them citizens that don’t have to drink clean water. This is another Big Sky diversion for gutting the clean air act. Another bogus CSA/CYA for the Walmartians.

      Title 21 United States Code (USC) Controlled Substances Act

      Part D — Offenses and Penalties

      From the U.S. Code Online via GPO Access [www.gpoaccess.gov] [Laws in effect as of January 3, 2007] [CITE: 21USC841]
      Section 841. Prohibited Acts A

      (a) Unlawful acts

      Except as authorized by this subchapter, it shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally–

      (1) to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, or possess with intent to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, a controlled substance; or

      (2) to create, distribute, or dispense, or possess with intent to distribute or dispense, a counterfeit substance.

      Smoking a joint is not intent to manufacture, distribute, or dispense, a controlled substance. Unless state laws limit amounts, forcing the catch 22 against fed law. Except CA with no limits, the other states are sitting whack a moles. And without removing the DC connection the feds have patents and can lower individual cannabinoids or sativex sublingual spray classifications as they did merd-all. Keeping dispensaries illegal and hemp off the markets. plus the bonus of pisstaster and rehabilitation asylums profits democrats prefer over private prison profits.

      Why Do Democrats Defend Nixon’s Drug War?

  9. Chip says:

    The shame I feel for the authorized crimes perpetrated by the US monstrosity is overwhelming this morning. In the iron fist incarceration smashdown that continues to employ millions of wallet driven stooges goons and wiseguys in the institutional ECONOMY, I find cause for nausea. Most USAN prison chumps have lost the ability to think and simply follow orders. Kill! Kill! Kill! Eat your pudding.

    • claygooding says:

      When i feel that way the only thing that brings me out of the funk is a joint,,Moody Blues,New Riders of the Purple Sage or Yes on the stereo,pot porn slide show on the pooter and a joint.

  10. Servetus says:

    Kevin Sabet was wrong, so now he and the DEA muck up their opponent’s victories like sore losers and five-year-olds. It doesn’t bother them that they’re obstructing access to life-saving herbal compounds for those who need them. It bothers other people, however. Sabet and federal prosecutors flaunt the will of the voters while disregarding Hannah Arendt’s warning that people do not forgive those whom they cannot punish.

    It’s almost as if Sabet and his drug enforcement minions are on a path to self-destruction, making themselves as hated as possible to bring about their own demise. Perhaps they think they’re invulnerable. If so, they’re wrong again. Things have changed since the 1930s.

    The EU, led by Germany, have taken the universal human rights position, that the International Criminal Court (ICC) should have universal jurisdiction, anywhere, anytime, anyplace. Sovereignty and U.S. citizenship are no longer legal barriers to being charged with human rights violations. It’s why Pope Benedict was forced to quit poping and seek refuge in the Vatican. The Vatican, BTW, during the 1998 Rome conference, tried and failed to include drug trafficking as a crime against humanity, despite the fact the conference was being held in The Hague, which is filled with coffeeshops selling pot. The ICC included systematic and organized child abuse as a crime against humanity, however.

    We are approaching a time when citizens can bring charges against petty tyrants who abuse the human rights of others. Prosecuting drug prosecutors would make an interesting test case for the ICC. Sabet and other rabid prohibitionists may someday be unable to travel outside the U.S. for fear of arrest, like torture lawyer John Yoo. The situation is bound to get more interesting.

    • Windy says:

      “Sabet and federal prosecutors flaunt the will of the voters”, uh, I THINK you meant “flout”. To flaunt is to exhibit or parade (something) in an ostentatious manner. To flout is to show contempt for or to scorn.

  11. Fuck/Sabet/et/alii/on/location says:

    “Sabet and other rabid prohibitionists may someday be unable to travel outside the U.S. for fear of arrest, like torture lawyer John Yoo. The situation is bound to get more interesting.”

    Love it!!!

  12. Howard says:

    “Either there is a very serious disconnect between the views of the administration and law enforcement on ground, or the administration is playing a cynical double game,” DeAngelo said.

    Yes, Steve, they are playing a cynical double game. On the one hand they suggest they have bigger fish to fry than pursuing individual cannabis users. On the other, they regard the very dispensaries that legally sell cannabis (via state law and voter approval) to medical users are large, drug trafficking syndicates. In the minds of the administration, the DOJ and the DEA, medical cannabis dispensaries must be owned by an army of Scarface clones. And to think those Scarface clones might be providing low THC, high CDB cannabis extracts to children with Dravets Syndrome. It’s just unthinkable. And very cynical indeed.

    And them there’s this complete idiot (once again), our favorite entertainer, Kevin Sabet;

    “The administration has reiterated that while it won’t go after granny smoking weed, it will target high-level operations. (weed smoking grannies!!!)

    “The feds don’t want to make breaking the law easy for these money-soaked marijuana stores.” (money-soaked marijuana stores!!!)

    “There are robberies and deaths as it is — it’s the illegal drug business,” Sabet said. “And with the money these guys are making, I’m sure they will be able to create their own armored cars that discreetly transfer their cash.” (homemade armored cars!!!).

    Good grief, what a true piece of shit work. Does Kevin stay up really late thinking of these gems? Is he channeling Harry Anslinger’s ghost?

    Keep it up Kevin. You’re doing GREAT!

    • Howard says:

      Ah, but wait. Kevin would like to clarify something;

      From the Huffington Post article;

      “Sabet said the clinics’ security concerns show why pot should be available in pharmacies, which would require a change to federal laws. [UPDATE: Sabet emailed to clarify that he only supports the distribution of “nonsmoked medications based on marijuana’s ingredients” through pharmacies, not marijuana itself.]”

      There it is. He only supports “nonsmoked medications based on marijuana’s ingredients…not marijuana itself”. Sunil Kumar Aggarwal, M.D. pointed out in his article on AlterNet that Kevin is ultimately a moralist. At the heart of Sabet’s moral outrage is the thought of people “smoking marijuana”. There is something about “marijuana itself” that tightens his top buttoned collar just a bit too much. To be so young and to have a thinking process so old and calcified is his own private tragedy (which he ‘s compelled to share publicly on a regular basis oddly enough).

      Instead of being assistant professor of psychiatry at the University of Florida (what a joke), he’s better suited wandering sidewalks carrying a sign saying, “Repent Marijuana Smokers, God Hates You”. He’s better suited for that role. I’ll bet he’s considered it.

      • That same Sunil Kumar Aggarwal, M.D. pointed out “If people understood that this decision to allow only ‘the few’ to legitimately produce cannabis rather than ‘the many’ was being made on their behalf, perhaps they would be compelled to stand up for a right that is essential for all: to farm and cultivate members of the Plant Kingdom in your locality.”

        Kevin endorses a government created corporate pharmaceutical giant monopoly on marijuana.

    • Howard says:

      Speaking of armored cars (no joking this time). They sent in a SWAT team based on a tip. For cannabis. Seriously;


      So now the Austin Police Department is taking cues from the DEA? They are definitely sowing the seeds of their own demise.

  13. DdC says:

    Whenever I think the DEA can sink no lower…

    Butterfly’s will carry skyscrapers through the air…

  14. The DEA is helping to generate crime by this decision.

    Something is really, really wrong here.

    “DEA anti-marijuana order might provoke new wave of drug violence”

    • DonDig says:

      The DEA et. al. want to maintain/re-create the drugs (pot) = crime meme, and will go to any lengths to do so, (even assisting in creating the crime themselves). They have not backed down on this issue in any way, and are proceeding in the only way in which their hands are not yet tied (apparently) by public outrage or law. They are doing their best to fly under the radar. These are smart people who are doing their best to carry out an evil agenda, (whether they believe in it or not). Evil intentions backed by the power of the state.
      It ain’t over yet by a long shot. It’s despicable, but unfortunately, I think they’ve only begun to fight.

      • claygooding says:

        I agree that the feds are not giving up but neither are we and we outnumber them. One city,one state at a time until the feds nor the state can get a guilty verdict on any non-violent marijuana crime,,including growing,,it’s coming,,and they know it.
        I look for the drug warriors supporters in congress,,under “sentencing reform” to move all minor marijuana charges to a non-jury trial,,by a judge only just like the drug courts with no changes in punishment.

        • Windy says:

          Such a “sentencing reform’ would be clearly unconstitutional to all Americans since one of the most valued rights of the people is the right to a trial by jury. I think such a move by congress would trigger a real revolution and that congress would fear that outcome enough to avoid triggering it (via legislation removing the right for any particular crime) like the plague.

        • claygooding says:

          I hope so,,but judging the common sense portrayed on marijuana policy I will not put any money on our government using any.

  15. War Vet says:

    OT but this comes from the same mindset as those willing to enforce drug laws and other laws that the U.S. Constitution would not approve of.


  16. nick says:

    Can always count on the US government to hinder legitimate businesses and make their lives harder to live. Pathetic.

  17. Deep Dish says:

    I’m taking a Halloween vacation to D.C. + Philly and it will be remembered as during a tumultuous era. One with of international incidents between truth vs. corruption, one with a struggle for privacy and the uprising of states rights, one perennially with risks vs. reward. I’ll be flying solo, because the best vacations are solo adventures.

    One page I read had a starting price of about $50K for an armored vehicle.

  18. Hang/Sabet/et/alii/on/location says:

    “The public functionaries are not, as is commonly believed, the guardians of order. Order, which is harmony, doesn’t need guardians, precisely because it is order. That which needs guardians is disorder and a disorder which is scandalous, shameful, and humiliating to those of us who weren’t born to be slaves, a disorder which reigns over the political and social life of humanity.
    “To maintain disorder, that is, to maintain political and social inequality, to maintain the privileges of the ruling class and the submission of the ruled, that is why governments, laws, policemen, soldiers, jailers, judges, hangmen, and the whole mob of high and petty functionaries who suck the energies of the humble people are needed. These functionaries don’t exist to protect humanity, but to maintain its submission, to keep it enslaved for the benefit of those who have contrived to retain the land and the factories for themselves up to this moment.”

    -Ricardo Flores Magon (1911)

  19. ezrydn says:

    There is NO lower limit on the DEA’s slippage scale! Their high mark is only mid-range.

  20. Duncan20903 says:


    “Whenever you think the DEA can sink no lower…” reminded me of an old, classic joke:

    Q)What do you call almost 5000 DEA agents at the bottom of the ocean?

    A) A job well done.

    Yeah, I modified it a little.

    • claygooding says:

      I call it a good start,,then we need to add the paid politicians that keep it going.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        But clay, there are just under 5000 sworn DEA agents which is why I called the hypothetical sinking of DEA agents as a job well done rather than a start.

        • Viggo Piggsko Flatmark says:

          I suspect they would float, have to use fire or a stake, or both.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          That reminds me of something that has been bugging me to no end…why in the world should I believe that a Snickers bar formed to look like a turd will float? Now all this chitter chatter about floating turds has spoiled that classic scene from Caddyshack for me forever. Where ignorance is bliss, ’tis folly to be wise, no doubt.

  21. Duncan20903 says:


    One of the habits of the sycophants of prohibition that I find most annoying is when they bring up industrial production in China and how we’ll never win the World Series of productivity if we allow the re-legalization of cannabis for enjoyment. Aside from the question of “who really gives a puck?” it annoys me because I wasn’t aware of when we turned productivity into a spectator sport. Because of that piece of hysterical rhetoric I find the article linked below highly amusing and even more so because this is the first time I’ve heard about this happening in China:

    Indoor marijuana farm raided by Shenzhen police
    The farm, which was located in an industrial area of Shenzhen’s Bao’an district was reportedly disguised as a factory. Inside, workers for a criminal gang set up plant beds and grow lights to assist in the cultivation of cannabis. Seeds were ordered online and the finished product was smuggled into Hong Kong to be sold there.

    Four mainlanders and three Hong Kongers were arrested during the raid. Police also seized 7.75 kilograms of cannabis and destroyed over 700 plants.

    Do people really refer to the residents of Hong Kong as Hong Kongers?

    Why in the world did I think that China had eliminated all drug use except for drinking alcohol?

  22. Jean Valjean says:

    Keystone cops, only without the humor:

    SWAT horror stories

    • Fuck/sabet/et/alii/on/location says:

      “But the difference between the tactics of the DEA and local policing efforts is that the DEA rarely reaps the consequences of their ill-conceived policies. It’s the local cops who will be further damaged as we get lumped in with the DEA’s zealotry to achieve their failed drug war that, according to a recent Rasmussen poll, only 4 percent of Americans believe we are winning.

      Clearly this new salvo in the drug war is inconsistent with the ethical values and standards professional law enforcement agencies adhere to. This effort by the DEA reflects poorly on the Obama administration, and is one more indicator of an out-of-control bureaucracy more concerned with sustaining its control and power than with enhancing public safety. It is long past due for our law enforcement leaders to publicly admonish these type of tactics by our federal government. Let’s hope that it won’t take the loss of innocent lives to give them the courage to do so.”

  23. Servetus says:

    Albanian village grows cannabis, takes the drug war seriously:


  24. darkcycle says:

    Oh. Dr. Thurstone:
    The comment that won’t appear: “Why worry about Lead and not Weed? Well….because lead is a toxic metal, known to cause brain damage in even small amounts. It’s an industrial POLLUTANT, which is present at damaging levels because of industrial activity. By and large we have NO CHOICE but to be exposed to environmental lead. So people are rightfully concerned, and seek regulation (note, there is not a ban on lead, only on including it in prohibited products. They won’t JAIL you for the lead wheel weights on your car. Not even if they pollute (which lost wheel weights most assuredly DO.”
    Damn it cut off the last portion of my response…. and the edit won’t give me enough time….

    • N.T. Greene says:

      That guy is a class-S card-carrying idiot.

      Note that these folks always leave out alcohol statistics, and/or the fact that a properly regulated system would likely result in a decrease in adolescent use (see also: cigarettes and alcohol age enforcement policies). We may not have statistics for marijuana in particular, but we do have successful systems for other substances.

      Everyone seems to forget that the current system, while keeping marijuana illegal, is an UNREGULATED system. Do they really think that kids wait until they’re 18 so they can be properly charged with possession if they get caught? Drug dealers don’t ID. So these adolescent brains they want to keep from taking 3-5 IQ point hits are in more danger now than they would be in a legalized world.

      (Then again, I don’t think you can properly quantify these IQ statistics — you can’t really control for quality of education, home life, television/entertainment consumption, alcohol… I, for one, don’t watch network television anymore because just as candy rots your teeth, the saccharine bullshit on TV and advertising have the same effects on your mind. If these kids go home and headbang and do nothing but watch MTV… it might be time to go after that shit too.)

      Pardon the lackluster grammar, I’ve been dealing with a crying child instead of sleeping.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        Please don’t forget to mention that youth use of cannabis is near a 30 year high, while youth use of drinking alcohol is at 30 year low.

        Then there’s also the fact that when compared to 36 European countries:

        …only Iceland has a lower rate of use than American youth for both drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco.

        …only France and Monaco have higher youth use rates of cannabis than American youth. France has close to or perhaps even the most draconian penalties for cannabis in the bunch.

        For the rest of the popular substances no country has higher youth use rates than American youth. None of the 36 countries are even close. We are #1.

        I really would like an answer: What about the children? Don’t the prohibitionist parasites care about the children?

    • strayan says:

      Mine won’t show either:

      When cannabis is produced in a regulated environment it is free of heavy metals: http://www.bedrocan.nl/english/products.html

      When it’s unregulated (i.e. prohibited) people suffer lead poisoning: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc0707784

      Would you rather it was sold in a regulated or unregulated environment?

  25. Duncan20903 says:


    I’ve decided to develop a new strain of cannabis. If I succeed completely this new strain will have absolutely no THC or CBD. The plant fibers will tear with only the slightest of effort. The seeds it produces will be sterile nor will the seeds secrete more than a marginal quantity of vegetable oil. The plant will require a ton of fertilizer. It will leave the ground in which it grew completely barren for at least a decade. The plants will require at least 18 and 60 months to finish. In short, the strain will be completely and utterly worthless. My problem is that I just can’t decide whether to call it Kev-Kev or Sabetiva. Could my fellow posters offer their opinion?

    • skootercat says:

      If NJ Gov. Chris Christie heard of your strain he would make it the only one available to NJ patients. Call it “The Christie.”

  26. claygooding says:

    Mexican drug cartel activity in U.S. said to be exaggerated in widely cited federal report


    When Sen. John McCain spoke during an Armed Services Committee hearing last year on security issues in the Western Hemisphere, he relayed a stark warning about the spread of Mexican drug cartels in the United States.

    “The cartels,” the Arizona Republican said, “now maintain a presence in over 1,000 cities.”

    McCain based his remarks on a report by a now-defunct division of the Justice Department, the National Drug Intelligence Center (NDIC), which had concluded in 2011 that Mexican criminal organizations, including seven major drug cartels, were operating in more than 1,000 U.S. cities.

    But the number, widely reported by news organizations across the country, is misleading at best, according to U.S. law enforcement officials and drug policy analysts interviewed by The Washington Post. They said the number is inflated because it relied heavily on self-reporting by law enforcement agencies, not on documented criminal cases involving Mexican drug-trafficking organizations and cartels.

    The Post interviewed local police officials in more than a dozen cities who said they were surprised to learn that the federal government had documented cartel-related activity in their communities.

    “That’s news to me,” said Randy Sobel, chief of police in Middleton, N.H.

    “I have no knowledge of that,” said David Lancaster, chief of police in Corinth, Miss. “snip”

    The DEA got caught exaggerating cartel activity in the US,,for more funding. Surprise,surprise.
    The corruption in our own federal agencies are enough reason to end this insanity.

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