Open thread

Continued silence from the administration. I really don’t know what that means and would love to be on the inside to hear what discussions are going on.

I’m also torn on the issue of forcing their hand – part of me thinks that forcing them to respond would mean they’d have to respond negatively (mostly from the position of interfering with state plans to set up distribution methods). On the other hand, ducking the issue entirely means that it’ll be up to the U.S. Attorneys and DEA to “set” federal policy.

Barney Frank and Ron Paul have sent President Obama a letter asking him to back off (too bad we’re losing both of those freedom-loving folks). Others in Congress are now developing bills to get the feds to leave the states alone. Several state legislatures are now considering their own legalization bills. Numerous countries are having serious legalization discussions…

And several conservative pundits have proposed that conservatives take up the legalization banner, both in an effort to attract younger voters, and because legalization fits both the limited government and states’rights concepts of conservatism.

Interesting times.

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159 Responses to Open thread

  1. claygooding says:

    Interesting indeed,,be even more so if the legislature of a state passes a bill legalizing marijuana,,a bill written by politicos and not advocates will be even more tax greed written than WA state’s law.

    25% tax applied 3 times,,plus sales tax is enough tax to insure a black market alone,,much less a retail price of $12 a gram,,jeez,,the black market can increase prices at that.

    • divadab says:

      Clay – you;re assuming the regulatory regime will happen in WA. I’m betting not, mostly from the lily-livered precedent set by Governor Gregoire, who vetoed most of the Legislature’s prior regulatory regime on medicinal cannabis because of fear of federal interference (and perhaps her own ambitions to a federal post).

      • claygooding says:

        I actually believe 502 was written and planned to fail at reducing the black market,,it is decriminalization with so much control over the market that pricing will underwrite the “green” market.
        It will allow the drug warriors to claim that legalization doesn’t effect the black market already in place when it is actually greed that keeps the black market in place,,greed of politicians.

        • Jeff Trigg says:

          After reading those 60 pages of bureaucracy 502 created, it looks like you aren’t far off.

          Manufacturer/grower sells it to a processor for $2,000/pound. 25% tax added, processor pays $2,500.

          Processor cleans and bags it (illegal for a manufacturer/grower to do that under 502) and sells it to the retailer for $3,200/pound. 25% tax is added, so the retailer pays $4,000.

          Then the retailer has to add another 25% tax ($1,000) into their price and charges the end consumer $6,000/pound. Sales tax is added (9.5% in Seattle/King) and the end consumer pays about $6,600 per pound.

          I know you can’t legally sell a pound under 502, this was just to illustrate what the tax scheme in 502 may do to prices. Manufacturer gets $2,000/pound, Processors gets $700/pound, and the Retailer gets $1,000/pound. The Government gets $2,900/pound following the rules written in 502, $500 in taxes from the grower, $800 in taxes from the processor, $1,000 in taxes from the retailer, and $600 in taxes from the end consumer.

          Do liberals/progressives understand math at all? I don’t know if 502 was designed to fail, but it certainly was NOT designed to succeed in the long term. It may be better than nothing, but it was written by a bunch of nannies who think government is, or should be, God. The people who wrote I-502 also seemingly believe that only rich people should be able to use cannabis since the poor/sick people will not be able to afford to pay the taxes on cannabis.

          Reminds me of how the elitist/nanny/liberals treat tobacco users with their excessive taxation on cigarettes, making it so only rich people can afford to pay the taxes on smokes and poor people are SOL. Sickening and pathetic.

        • darkcycle says:

          I see you have continued to add the black market premium. I can produce a pound of good bud for a lot less than that. At $2000 a pound I’d still be making out like a bandit. Remove the constant need to hide my garden, and the onerous plant limit I live under and my costs go WAY down.
          They have set a target price of twelve dollars a gram. We’ll see if they are even going to implement this scheme. I’ll pass judgement good or bad when I have something to judge.

        • darkcycle says:

          And we’re not even counting refined products from trim….

        • Jeff Trigg says:

          Have at it. Let’s see your math. Right now, manufacturers/growers aren’t paying any of the normal regulatory costs of production. Growing in your basement/closet/spare room? Nope, not allowed under 502 or local zoning regulations. You need the right zoning codes on your property to grow it. Did you factor that in to your $2,000/pound calculation that you claim you can do for less?

          So you have to have a properly zoned commercial property to grow cannabis, how much does THAT cost? I’ll be happy to see your math. Buying? Good uck with anything less than $100,000 zoned commercial. Renting? Do the landlords know what you do with their property and have they received threats from the DEA yet? Good luck there, but even if, $1,000/month for a small space in Washington is very rare. What does your math say, darkcycle?

          Then you have your licensing costs from the State Liquor Control Board. You claim you have that memorized, darkcycle, so make sure to show your math on that too.

          A regular Joe cannabis smoker isn’t going to legally be able to grow a few pounds of pot at cut-rate prices under 502 in Washington. The upfront costs for a commercial property will be a massive ‘barrier to entry’ for EVERY grower in Washington. It will not be like it is in California where you can show up with a pound harvest from your two 600 watt bulbs at a dispensary and they’ll buy it, that isn’t how 502 is written to work. Under 502, a person will need tens of thousands of dollars in start-up funds to legally grow cannabis that they can only sell to processors.

          And then, you have to think about lawyer costs from potential Obama/liberal federal attacks on you, just like Richard Lee and many others are currently facing. Health insurance for one person/grower alone can be more than $2,000/month, so be sure to factor that into your less than $2,000/pound calculation since its now illegal not to have health insurance. A self-employed grower also would have to pay 15.3% for Social Security and Medicare, is that in your equation? And income tax. And taxes on any equipment/supplies needed to set-up and grow.

          Show me the numbers, darkcycle. You say you can grow cannabis for under $2,000 pound in Washington under 502, I say show me the numbers. I’ve provided plenty of my own, prove me wrong. Or stop defending the piece of crap bureaucracy that attempts to make cannabis less criminal that is I-502, and the deadbeats who wrote it.

          I-502 was a piece of crap with a cherry on top. Luckily for us, the cherry seemingly tried to, kind of, maybe, legalized an ounce of cannabis. (Good luck growing one ounce at a time.) Unfortunately, the 60 pages of liberal/progressive/ACLU/Obama lovers bullshit made the cherry on top taste mostly like shit. Still glad I left Snohomish County.

        • claygooding says:

          Jeff,although I agree that the $12 a gram is enough to insure a continued black market,it really doesn’t matter much in the long run,,the important thing is that WA stepped up and delivered a blow on the wall of prohibition that was heard around the world and before the echos died down other states and countries started announcing legalization plans by lawmakers instead of having to wait two years for another ballot initiative.

          So even though WA is a shit piece of legalization it is a beautiful slap to Kerli’s face.

        • darkcycle says:

          I just hate having to repeat myself. “They have set a target price of twelve dollars a gram. We’ll see if they are even going to implement this scheme. I’ll pass judgement good or bad when I have something to judge.”
          Furthermore, I not only believe it can be done, I’m gonna be the first in line with an application if in fact they open the process up. I could give you my projections, but I think I’ll tell you what the actual numbers are when I’ve done it.
          I never met somebody so totally pissed off that pot was legalized. I don’t think Kevin Sabet hates I-502 as much as you do Jeff. Maybe you should get off this here couch and stroll down to your local ONDCP recruiting office and sign up.

        • Jeff Trigg says:

          darkcycle, there is no need for you to embarrass yourself by being silly and obtuse. I oppose locking people in a cage if they grow one plant or have more than an ounce and you say I’m pissed off that pot was legalized. Be honest for once instead of making shit up and trying to pin it on people.

          And I’m the one who should go work for the ONDCP when you are the one who finds it acceptable to still lock people in a cage for growing one plant or having more than an ounce? Hmm, complete logical disconnect right there.

          And you admit you will have no problem getting a license to grow while they hold government guns to the head of your potential competitors in order to protect your greedy personal profits. You plan on having the state version of the ONDCP (liquor control board) license you and use their government guns to protect your business.

          Sounds like you are the one who will be strolling down to your state ONDCP recruiting office and signing up. Why don’t you just start holding your own gun to competitors heads and threatening to lock them in a cage instead of having your state ONDCP do it for you.

          Clay, yes, 502 sent a great message to world, but it is sending more than one message. 502 also sends the message that is it still OK to lock people in cages for growing one plant, or having more than an ounce, or driving a week after using. Just like with medical marijuana restrictions, those bad messages spread right along with the good ones. One state gets the idea to limit medical usage to only certain medical conditions, next thing more states are limiting medical access. Someone gets the idea that only pharmacists and pharmacies can dispense medical cannabis, and next thing you know a couple states are proposing just that. Be careful what you wish for, as the saying goes.

        • darkcycle says:

          Do you read what you write, or do you just spew hate?

        • Jeff Trigg says:

          Copy and paste any and all spewed hate I wrote that isn’t warranted, or shut up with your ignorance and lies and go hide behind those government guns you want to use to lock human beings in cages for one plant or more than an ounce so you can make your greedy profit. Calling I-502 a piece of shit with a cherry on top is “spewing hate”? Give me break. Put up or shut up darkcycle.

        • darkcycle says:

          Jeff, you could do the very same thing (apply to become a legal producer). Except I suspect that because this system isn’t exactly the way you want it, that because this isn’t JEFF’s very own perfect law, you won’t. You strike me as like these crazy “Freegan” kids we have around here (who I sometimes had to work with as a shrink). They think the system is “broken” (and I agree)but they see any attempt at all to make a living within this system as “selling out” and ultimately “giving in to evil”. So they refuse to work, they eat out of garbage cans and they live in illegal squats. Because I lived in a house and worked for a living, I could never ever be anything but evil in their ascetic estimation of things. Like them, I suspect you have a problem with all systems, since all systems are imperfect, and JEFF wasn’t consulted in their creation. I also suspect that interferes with aspects of your life. I also get that you have a problem with me. Myself, I give a rats hindquarters what you think, either of the law or of me.
          See, we’re fundamentally different, I can disagree. You fly of to cuckooland the minute somebody isn’t conforming to your proclamations of Absolute Good and Absolute Evil. Save your judgement for somebody who cares.

  2. Servetus says:

    Kristen Gwynn at Alternet writes that the three states with marijuana legalization on the ballot saw major increases in election participation from the youth vote. Oregon was up 5%, Colorado was up 6%, and Washington was up a whopping 12%. Other states remained roughly the same in the percentages of youth voters.

    Now that it’s clear marijuana issues attract otherwise disinterested younger voters to the polls who favor reform, expect progressive politicians to introduce legalization and regulation in various states in future races as a means of turning out the youth vote.

    • divadab says:

      Not to mention the turned-off voters who finally had something they could agree with to vote on. In my county, voter turnout this year was higher than in 2008!

    • stlgonzo says:

      Let us not forget that in Colorado Amendment 64 got more votes then Obama. Pot is more popular then the president in Colorado.

  3. darkcycle says:

    Does it strike anyone else here as remarkable how much we’ve been able to take control of the topic of drugs and legalization? Is it just me that sees our hands (in part) behind this amazing transformation of public opinion?
    I got here on ’05 or ’06, and this was so far off then it seemed an impossible task. But I’ll be damned if our constant harping on this topic in open comments forums hasn’t had an effect.
    Unreal. Good job so far, couchmates!
    I don’t know what the silence portends. I do know it is a good indicator that they are fully confused themselves.

    • Chris says:

      I won’t be convinced that the other side is learning anything from this until they start using the word “cannabis” on TV without having to explain what it is.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      We’ve been making bricks with no straw, no doubt.

      Think about the stereotype of a pothead in the mind of a standard issue prohibasite. Amotivated, unemployed, on some form of public assistance, disorganized. Now consider that we’ve managed to change the laws in more than half the States in the face of an intransigent Federal government with resources in the trillions of dollars to back up their position.

      If medicinal cannabis is a scam that means that we’ve scammed about 40% of the population into adopting a fraud as public policy. If that were true then not only should cannabis be re-legalized, it should be flippin’ mandatory.

      When was the last anti-cannabis ballot initiative sponsored by the enemies of freedom? Wasn’t that Alaska’s 1990 vote to re-criminalize cannabis? Wasn’t that the law that got kicked to the curb by the Alaska Court of Appeals in 2002? Perhaps it was Arizona’s 1998 ballot initiative to make it impossible to legalize any Schedule 1 substance. — Oh my word, it had completely escaped me until just now that 1998s Prop 300 was a veto referendum. Be that as it may the Arizona voters kicked that to the curb by a margin of 64-36. But it means that it wasn’t put on the ballot by the prohibitionists but by the friends of freedom.

      So the last time that they actually managed to have a vote for re-criminalizing cannabis was 1990 Alaska? Why is that? All you have to do is to get the Secretary of State to approve your proposed legislation, collect around tthe required signatures, then convince 50% + 1 of your States voters to vote it into law? What is their problem? It’s so easy even a pothead can do it.

      Oh well, don’t hold your breath waiting for them to acknowledge our efforts. More likely is that after cannabis prohibition expires once and for all the prohibasites will blame us for making it take so long to accomplish its repeal. Think about it. If we didn’t choose to enjoy cannabis, they wouldn’t have had to make it illegal in the first place!

      Hey, call me a loser, call me a bed wetter, just don’t call me late to the re-legalization celebration. (Yes one of the rocket scientists on the other side of the table recently called me a bed wetter. You just never know what the heck is going to come out of their mouths at any given moment. But you can almost assuredly predict that it will be laughably absurd.)

      Arizona Medical Use of Schedule 1 Drugs, Proposition 300 (1998)

      Voting on Marijuana

      Arizona Proposition 300, also known as the Referendum Relating to the Medical Use of Schedule I Drugs, was on the November 3, 1998 election ballot in Arizona as a veto referendum, where it was [soundly thrashed].

      • darkcycle says:

        Yeah, but we know. And the Kevin Sabets and Gil Kerlikowski’s of the world, they know, they know us by NAME.
        I can’t help thinking of an extended debate I had with a prohibiscite on a forum long ago. This guy was insulting in the extreme, using every lame stereotype and personal attack in the book to draw me in in an attempt to get me to discredit myself. It was suspicious. I hadn’t identified myself as an advocate to this guy, but over the course of the conversation, he made it clear he knew just who I was. Finally, just before he gave up, he tipped his hand when he said “Look, you online advocates have put your ladder up the wrong tree. Pot will Never be legalized.”
        Wish I could find that guy now. I really do. I’d ask him about ladders, and trees, and walls and what’s left of his drug war.
        We know Duncan. And so does that guy.

    • dt says:

      We’re winning. At least for now. It’s pretty incredible that we’ve come so far so fast.

      I think the feds’ silence means they know there is a serious opposition and they are reluctant to piss us off. In the old days, denouncing drugs/legalization would have been the first order of business for the anti-drug offices in the event of state-level reforms. Now, the drugs issue is a risky topic rather than a useful unifying scare tactic.

    • DC, I think we have been able to control the topic because we are also quite the experts on the subject. I can tell you that this couch here at Pete’s has more combined wisdom on the drug war subject than a million barrelful’s of Kevin Sabets’.
      This is the room to be in if you want to learn some truth.

  4. DonDig says:

    As important as this issue is to us, (and to the world at large), I have a feeling that it is more of a really expensive nuisance issue to the feds, not something they think deserves all that much attention, and is more of a thorn in the side of the administration of justice than something real that actually needs to be dealt with creatively. Conceptually, I think it’s just peanuts to them, another law enforcement venue where they can experiment with control and domination, but I have to also imagine they don’t want to have to deal with unwinding a policy mess from a few generations ago. The whole thing is now an embarrassing inconvenience.
    If they lean that way at all, maybe their silence really is more or less of a wait and see thing, since this has stirred up interest in the whole world. Perhaps they are actually interested in seeing how it plays out. In the fed mind, there is nothing bleeding that needs to be bandaged: no triage necessary. Beyond that, it must seem unthinkable for them to quash election results in this country of all places, with the whole world watching. What will the neighbors think?
    I’d bet some money on the idea that the feds had zero expectation of two states voting to legalize, (like Romney being unprepared to lose, not even writing the speech). They were unprepared and surprised: maybe they’ll gradually just give it up. Wouldn’t that be a nice surprise!

    • claygooding says:

      Don,,it may not be that important to the feds in general but you can bet that the lobbyist that spread the election funds for corporations for keeping hemp illegal and the corporations that depend on the war on marijuana are blowing up the phones of every legislator they “donated” too.

      And the Rand Corp is blowing up Kerli’s phone for the pharmaceutical industry,,,of course we will not her anything about those conversations but we will recognize a lot of the receivers of those phone calls when the bills to excuse CO and WA from the CSA on marijuana,,they will be the no votes in the committee that discusses the bill in the committee hearing.

      • DonDig says:

        Clay, I’m sure you’re right. In a sick kind of way, it’s fun isn’t it!!??

        The real problem is our legislators of course, but all of DC gets to pay for their incompetence.

  5. claygooding says:

    DEA Agent Told Not To Enforce Drug Laws In White Areas

    There may be a few of you — in deep denial, no doubt — who still won’t admit there’s a strong racial component to the so-called “War On Drugs” (which is really a war on American citizens).

    As a former U.S. Marshal and special agent for the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), Matthew Fog saw for himself the astonishing injustices of the War On Drugs firsthand.””

    Another great ad from LEAP!!!

  6. Nunavut Tripper says:

    While you Americans are concerned about cannabis legalization the progressive politicians here in Canada
    have given us cheap Oxycontin.
    Federal Health Minister Leona Aglukkaq says “It should not be up to politicians to determine which drugs should be approved for medical use,”

    My goodness Leona , if you believe that then get the hell away from our medical marijuana program.
    I think she raised the bar for political hypocrisy.

    • claygooding says:

      Malcolm,,they need your politicians opinion needed comment at this one.

      Her and Harper’s position will change as soon as advocates and companies wanting in on the cash flow from marijuana pay more than the drug warriors support league does. And the drug warriors are helping raise the greed level with every price quote they give in a marijuana bust.

      Greed of the few created prohibition of hemp and only greed of the many will defeat it. And our numbers are growing while prohibs are searching for new sources of possible government funding as noted in recent threads.

      • Byddaf yn egluro: says:

        Sorry, Clay, I’m having trouble signing in. It keeps sending me in circles.

        • claygooding says:

          It did the same to me,,,we must be on someones ignore list. I couldn’t sign in with facebook or get a new password sent to my email,,so far.

        • Byddaf yn egluro: says:

          “we must be on someones ignore list”

          Especially with my habits, I had expected to be on hundreds of ignore lists by now —but it hasn’t happened. Apart from a few sites (mostly in Arizona) I’ve been given practically free rein/reign. At least free speech still exists on the internet.

  7. claygooding says:

    17 Members of Congress Sign Letter Asking Feds to Respect States’ Marijuana Laws

    With the marijuana legalization initiative in Washington State and Colorado set to officially go into effect in the next several weeks, several members of Congress are stepping up to ask federal agencies to respect the will of the voters. The 17 members sent a letter the the Department of Justice and Drug Enforcement Administration ask them to not interfere with the states’ marijuana laws. From the letter (via Rep. Jared Polis):

    “”While we recognize that other states have chosen a different path, and further understand that the federal government has an important role to play in protecting against interstate shipments of marijuana leaving Colorado or Washington, we ask that your Departments take no enforcement action against anyone who acts in compliance with the laws of Colorado, Washington and any other states that choose to regulate access to marijuana for medicinal or personal use. The voters of these states chose, by a substantial margin, to forge a new and effective policy with respect to marijuana. The tide of public opinion is changing, both at the ballot box and in state legislatures across the country. We believe that the collective judgment of voters and state lawmakers must be respected. Thank you for your attention to this important matter.”” (excerpt from letter)

    The members who signed the letter are Jared Polis (D-CO), Steve Cohen (D-TN), Diana DeGette (D-CO), Ed Perlmutter (D-CO), Barney Frank (D-MA), Earl Blumenauer (D-OR), Jerrold Nadler (D-NY), Jan Schakowsky (D-IL), Sam Farr (D-CA), Jim Moran (D-VA), Chellie Pingree (D-ME), Adam Smith (D-WA), Barbara Lee (D-CA), Dennis Kucinich (D-OH), Raúl Grijalva (D-AZ), Robert C. “Bobby” Scott (D-VA) and John Conyers (D-MI). 'snip'

    Are there any "surprises" in the list of signers?

    • claygooding says:

      NORML reports 18 legislators signed the letter,,perhaps they shuld make a few calls and get more signatures,,they might be surprised by how many politicians can read the writing on the wall.

    • Windy says:

      Any surprises? Yes! This: WA State has 10 congressional districts and adding the 2 senators, and only ONE of them signed that letter? Looks like WA voters needs to recall the other 11, immediately if not sooner. CO did much better 3 out of 9 for their State, but they need to recall the other 6. If those two States’ voters were to take that kind of action, I think the rest of congress would not be so quick to brush off calls for legalization.

      • claygooding says:

        Windy,,thanks for posting that,,now too stir the pot,,help me hit the sites with that article to ask the constituents of the non-signing legislators so they can ask them why.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          Two of them from Virginia is certainly stunning to me. Mr. Warner is very much part of the political machine in Virginia as well. If the machine has determined that legal cannabis is something they want in Virginia it just won’t be long before they do.

          Before you point out that they’re both considered liberals in the Commonwealth you might consider that designation is very much dependent on location. In the State of Washington or Colorado those two would be considered very much to the right of center.

          Oh, then there’s the fact that Virginia had 2 signers and the State of Washington only 1.

          (I’d really like to know where the Commonwealth is getting the money for their road construction projects. They’re rebuilding the Fairfax County part of the beltway, putting in a subway line out to Dulles Airport, rebuilding 29 where it intersects with I-66, re-jiggering the Fairfax County Parkway, we’re probably talking about perhaps as much as $100 billion State wide.)

  8. Dante says:

    RE: Federal Government Silence

    If history is any guide, the Federal Government talks until they are blue in the face when they don’t have a clue what is going on, and the Federal Government remains totally silent when they have a plan of action.

    Lately (the last 40 years or so), the only plan of action our Federal Government has come up with is:

    Shock & Awe. SWAT Raids. Shoot the Dog. Taser Grandma.

    Get it? The only thing they know how to do is war.

    Get ready for war.

    • darkcycle says:

      We will certainly see, Dante. But myself, I don’t expect an inferno. They have to tread very carefully here. Colorado and Washington are States, not third world countries. And we’re talking about the expressed will of the people and a State’s CONSTITUTION (In Colorado this vote put legalization into the State Constitution…..).

      • Dante says:

        For the record I don’t wish for violence.

        I’m just saying the Federal Government has an established track record of how they behave in certain situations. In this situation (and just about every other one, too), the Federal Government will resort to war in order to accomplish what it wants. Their knee-jerk reaction to Colorado and Washington’s attempts to legalize will be, as always, violent.

        Grass is green, the sun is hot, water is wet and the Federal Government uses violence to execute its’ will.

        ps – I saw what you did there with “inferno”. Nice.

    • Deep Dish says:

      Before the election, did you predict this silence would be the most immediate outcome? Just curious.

      • claygooding says:

        I think Kapt predicted the feds would do nothing,,I remember someone saying there would be no immediate reaction because the feds were not ready for the measures to pass,,reckon they thought there efforts to split the vote in WA was successful and that the “reefer madness” ads in CO would keep the laws from passing.

        When you consider who the feds have working for them disseminating propaganda,accomplished liars and statistic skewing specialist,,not to far fetched to believe that the prohibs paid to fight those initiatives lied to their handlers and reported a more effective campaign and the feds expected all legalization measures to fail.

      • darkcycle says:

        I had a hunch that the Feds didn’t have a plan. I still think they don’t have a clue how to proceed. This just forced a hand they weren’t even intending to play. No matter how you slice it, anything they do is going to hurt them.

  9. Is The War on Drugs “All About the Money”?

    Stephen Downing retired LA police Chief and Terry Nelson-border patrol and Homeland Security being interviewed.

  10. Common Science says:

    Im speculating that the DEA, ONDCP, CIA, Prison & Police unions, drug testing industry etc, have done enough huddling this month to come up with an official statement or two. If this was football, they’d have been called for delay of game continuously to the point of being back at their own one yard line.

    What happens if they get called for delay of game again? With the DEA as the field marshall, they’ve been allowed to delay rulings for 14 years – more than once.

    I say they should forfeit. Get rid of the armour and lets all move on to a new game. Who’s got the frisbee?

  11. Wes says:

    I’ve heard that there have been conversations between people in Washington State and the Federal government.

    Also, Seattle police department posted this:

    Feels good to be in Seattle.

  12. Peter says:

    Don’t know if you guys saw this over at Huffington… good riddance to Dan Lundgren, drug warrior

    • Love Radley Balko. Good article. I wonder if Radley could save a copy of this article. I am sure the country could use it some day as a very pertinent section in a history book. Or an obituary column.

    • primus says:

      Is it just me, or does the picture with that article on Dan Lundgren look really creepy? Look at the eyes. Crazed looking. Phony ‘friendly face’ looks more like a caricature.

    • Servetus says:

      In spite of his psychopathic gaze, Congressman Dan Lundgren achieved his political victories on the backs of drug victims while milking drug hysteria for all it was worth. He definitely deserves a prominent spot among the list of drug war criminals.

      That someone like Dan Lundgren walks the earth is reason enough to end prohibition.

  13. strayan says:

    Police are puzzled by the discovery of three garbage bags full of freshly-cut marijuana with a sign reading “Free dope. Mull up” dumped by a road on the New South Wales south coast.

    A local man made the discovery on Bolong Road, near Nowra, on Saturday morning while on his way to go fishing.

    Police say the bags contain around 16 kilograms of marijuana with a street value of around $90,000.

    Cops think leaf is worth $90 000, dealers reckon it has no value.

    • darkcycle says:

      Those bags had probably been passed up by several lookers. $90,000???? Look at the pictures…. oh fer crissake.
      Ninety f*cking thousand dollars??????
      Are they really that retarded in NSW Strayan?

      • claygooding says:

        SHHHHHHH dark,,,every pricing for marijuana like that wakes a few more people up now,,,that is $90 grand that any citizen could make if it was legal.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        Have I never linked to a picture of a North Carolina grow op the cops valued at $67,000? (Remember that you can turn your computer into a doorstop if you spray it with liquid, so swallow that coffee first.)

        You’ve got to be drunk Officer, sixty fucking seven thousand dollars?!?

        • primus says:

          Let them keep on making such ridiculous statements, then ridicule them. When the public sees the picture and reads what the cops are saying, they will see what liars they are, and will believe them less. Once the sheeple see the truth, they will come to our side. The cops are their own worst enemas.

        • Matthew Meyer says:

          That’s really funny, Duncan. I’d offer ten bucks at auction.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          It backfired in California with the decision in City of Garden Grove v Felix Kha. Ever since then if the authorities are ordered to return a patient’s medicine but have disposed of it for whatever reason relief comes in dollars using their own idiotic price scale to come up with the value. Patients have also been reimbursed by their home owners hazard insurance again using the same fantasy land valuation.

          That’s California. Right now in Washington State the last on point Court ruling says that contraband has no value. Both States are in the 9th Circuit so the Washington ruling may well be overturned if it goes to the Federal Court of Appeals. City of Garden Grove is only binding in California because in 2007 the Federal Appeals Court and the SCOTUS weren’t interested in hearing those idiotic Federal preemption arguments. But that might not happen because insurance regulation is done at the State level so there could be a significant differences between any two States insurance regulation law.

  14. Deep Dish says:

    Good economics article in TIME magazine:

    Again, if the number of authorized outlets isn’t sufficient for the market, the underground distribution network will expand to fill that demand.

    Another byproduct of the new law: Better quality. The anecdotal evidence since Colorado legalized medicinal marijuana a couple of years ago is that the quality of the product has improved. In an openly competitive market, entrepreneurs have invested in R&D to develop a whole variety of marijuana-based foods, beverages and supplements in addition to widening the selection of marijuana itself. But here’s another thing that’s happened: the quality of the illegal stuff has improved, too, which could indicate that contraband sellers have been feeling the pressure to improve.

    I’m in Florida with all these indoor hydroponics and, you know what, I get good fire every single time.

    • Deep Dish says:

      …If the feds knock down the commercial regulations, the black market may explode, wouldn’t it, allowing teenagers to have even more access (or cheaper, at least). It’s as if the feds have no other options than to allow legalization. Part of this silence must be their realization they are f.u.c.k.e.d. (Think about that early scene with Don Cheadle in Traffic.)

    • Deep Dish says:

      No, wait, Miguel Ferrer’s scene in Traffic where he breaks down the futility of the drug war.

    • claygooding says:

      It is amazing,,first the politicians create the market for marijuana by prohibiting it,,now they want to remove the market by making it cost more than it does now by adding sin taxes for the people they have been imprisoning for the last 40 years to make the money back they wasted trying to fight the problem they created,,,there is a joke in there somewhere,,and it isn’t that funny.

  15. stlgonzo says:

    The Great American Troubadour speaks

    Willie Nelson: ‘I haven’t seen any side effects’ of pot
    The music legend, who has made over 100 albums, chats about his new book, “Roll Me Up and Smoke Me When I Die: Musings From the Road,” which chronicles his decades-long career, and says he loves performing with his kids, some of whom have also become musicians.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      Let’s not forget to mention that Mr. Nelson will celebrate his 80th birthday next year on April 30th. He’s still working full time. He has a stratospheric net worth so he isn’t working because he has to do so. What was that? I thought I just heard someone talking about “amotivational” syndrome…somebody needs to tell Mr. Nelson to stop tormenting the prohibitionists. It’s not nice to torture the lower life forms.

      • Matthew Meyer says:

        Willie Nelson lacks the motivation to give up his addiction to touring and rolling fatties.

        Such a shame to see in a man of his age!

  16. WordtSteedsErger says:


    McKay invites California to reconsider their 2010 decision:

    “The new marijuana laws in Washington and Colorado may point the way to achieving real change in California, too – and across America. Bringing the production and sale of marijuana under tight regulatory control and capturing the tax revenues will directly challenge the deadly dominance of the drug cartels and gangs.

    It is now clear the states will lead the way to ending marijuana prohibition in the United States. California should be in the vanguard. Will it?”


    • darkcycle says:

      “It is now clear the states will lead the way to ending marijuana prohibition in the United States. California should be in the vanguard. Will it?”
      Ummm, no. That train has left the station. And Cali wasn’t on it. What say the prop 19 opponents now, hmmmm?

  17. ezrydn says:

    O/T – During the last week (10 days), we’ve heard a lot about Israel’s “Iron Dome.” Unfortunately, MSM hasen’t really shown us much, other than immediate launches. Check this video from a wedding party, at night. Best part is at the end.

    Really impressive. I had originally thought those were Patriot batteries but they’re not.

  18. Peter says:

    Back on the topic of drug reform I heard on NPR that president Choom has the lowest average for granting clemency of any president (290/1). Even the next worst, George W. Bush had 50/1.

  19. Brucifer says:

    They’ve got their Bullets, and their “Kill Lists”
    Hmmmm Fair is Fair.
    Got Yours?

  20. Goood24/7 says:


    Residents of Washington and Colorado, expressing a winsome and entirely unjustified faith in voting as a means of reining in the state, approved measures decriminalizing recreational use of marijuana. In response, Raymond Yans, head of the UN’s International Narcotics Control Board, has called for Attorney General Eric Holder to ignore the law and continue cracking down on marijuana use and possession. Decriminalizing marijuana use, Yans insists, sends the “wrong message to the rest of the nation and it sends a wrong message abroad.”

    Like other prohibitionist Pharisees, Yans is willing to see people killed, kidnapped, and caged in order to send a “message.” Most of the same conservatives who properly abhor the UN and all of its works and pomps also support drug prohibition. Now that a high-ranking UN functionary has offered an official directive to Washington demanding that the Obama administration escalate its war against the American people, will conservatives of that ilk finally come out in opposition to drug prohibition?

    • claygooding says:

      Since Mr. Yans has no idea how democracy,,or alleged democracy,,works because votes by the people are the law,,if he did he wouldn’t waste his breath,,,I can see the headlines following the DOJ/DEA claim they were following instructions from the UN and punishing American citizens and states,,,if the US hadn’t spent so much money in 1961 getting the Single Treaty passed in the UN they would probably withdraw from it.

    • Duncan20903 says:

      It’s done gone global…who’da thunk it?

    • claygooding says:

      Talk about some rude responses in articles,,I didn’t know Americans worried that much about a drug warrior having sex!!!

      I don’t understand people worrying about this little ol treaty,,the Geneva Convention means nothing for terrorist,,our constitutional guarantee of no arrest or loss of property without due process,,meaningless and you can ask any Native American of our governments fidelity to treaties,,,just more newsprint for the outhouse.

  21. claygooding says:

    I saw this article and it made me smile:

    Maine’s former top drug prosecutor, James Cameron — who has been convicted on child pornography charges — on Wednesday cut off his electronic monitoring bracelet and disappeared, and is being hunted by the U.S. Marshals Service.

    Hours after he learned that his appeal of his child porn convictions had failed and he would likely go back to prison, Cameron, 50, went on the lam and was being sought by law enforcement nationwide

    This is one of the warriors fighting drugs to save the children,,,,for posing later.

  22. Ron Paul: Marijuana Legalization and Secession

    Awesome article and right on. Sorry to see this man retiring.

  23. CNN opened the door of the asylum again.

    More words of wisdom from Kevin.

    Legalize pot? No, reform laws

  24. Jeff Trigg says:

    98.5% of the people who voted for President are complete, utter, fucking idiots. This country is doomed. It can, and will collapse. Be prepared. Don’t be one of the idiots out there killing human beings for food when the shit hits the fan. Be prepared.

    Greece instituted a new national property tax to pay for pensions and benefits of government retirees who already had to take a 25% cut in their benefits. In Greece, if you don’t pay that new national property tax, they will shut off your electricity, gas, water, sewer, whatever. Greece just made it legal to sell food past its expiration date, because they don’t grow enough of their own food and the cheapest/best food they could import is close to the expiration date.

    In Illinois, legislation was just introduced that would allow Cook County/Chicago to turn off the utilities of people who don’t pay their property tax. For Chicago and Cook County, their biggest yearly expenditure is now pensions and benefits, not education or helping poor people, but payments to government employee retirees.

    How much will electricity or water or utilities cost 5-10 years from now? Gasoline? Food?

    Do the math. Be prepared.

    • claygooding says:

      People that think electing Romney would have a different outcome when the world economy crashes are the idiots with no more memory than a fucking ice cube,,Bush took office with the budget in the black and left it with what we are trying to repair,the Republicans have operated the last four years under a “make Obama fail” agenda and you think they should be back in the Whitehouse to finish the job.

      Every time our economy has done well in the last 45 years of my life it has been under a democratic regime and America gets to feeling good about it’s self and elect a Republican and the economy goes back into the toilet,,,seen it happen time and again,,,it is one of the main reasons people need marijuana in their lives,,to live with people that can’t remember shit.

      • stlgonzo says:

        Clay you are so right. I really hope Gary Johnson runs again in 2016.

      • damaged justice says:

        People who assume people who talk like that would rather have elected Romney, shouldn’t assume.

      • Jeff Trigg says:

        Clay, the 98.5% of voters I called idiots includes Romney voters. As for (so-called) Democratic regimes being “better”, take a look at the finances of California and Illinois, both completely controlled by so-called Democrats. Detroit, Vallejo, Stockton – all Democrats. Illinois hasn’t needed even one Republican vote to pass anything the last decade. Illinois still has $10 BILLION in unpaid bills from last years budget.

        Our economy does well in spite of the Republicans and Democrats, not because of them. Both parties have further ruined this country the past 45 years, but now, the bills they racked up are coming due.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      Cheesus Jeff, how many more decades of world wide financial catastrophe is right around the corner before you guys will give up that fantasy? It doesn’t even seem to bother you that these predictions have been wrong for 3+ decades at least. Hell, at least in 1980 it was a prediction on the plausible side.

      That shit really scared the hell out of me in 1980 when I was 20. This Country is not in very bad shape at all compared to then. Not only has there been no hyperinflation, interest and inflation are at historic lows.

      I just don’t understand why you people do that to yourselves. Oh well.

      • Jeff Trigg says:

        “You people”? I didn’t say it’ll happen tomorrow or even next year. You think 1980 was worse than now and say I have the fantasy? Do the math.

        Illinois Democrat Governor Pat Quinn says the state of Illinois will collapse if we don’t reign in Squeezy the Pension Python. Obama endorsed Quinn. Are they in fantasy land and part of “you people”? Most Democrats and liberals are crying that the federal government will collapse if we don’t raise taxes right away and spend more money to save us from the fiscal cliff. 45 million people on food stamps isn’t enough, I guess. How many freeloaders were there in your 1980 scenario that you say was more plausible?

        Detroit once had 2 million people, but only 750,000 now. Vallejo, CA went bankrupt. Stockton is bankrupt and dozens more cities are right behind them. Illinois is on the verge of following Greece, was that the case in 1980?

        Illinois already owes $10 BILLION to service providers from last year and could only make payroll of government employees by borrowing money and skipping pensions payments. There are only 7 million taxpayers in Illinois. The state would have to take $1,500 more from every taxpayer just to balance last years’ budget. Then there is $95 BILLION in unfunded pension obligations Illinois has that inspired Quinn’s Squeezy cartoon snake, and that doesn’t include the free healthcare for life obligations either. Illinois would have to stop ALL spending for 4 years to get caught up on its overdue bills and debts. 6 years if you include free healthcare.

        Think about that for one second in comparison to 1980. Illinois couldn’t spend even one penny for 6 years while still bringing in the same revenue in order to finally have a balanced budget. Not one penny spent on education, Medicaid, college grants, social services, NOTHING for 6 years to finally get caught up. The millionaire pension promises made in the 1980s are just now coming due, so to compare the current situation to 1980 is a fantasy. In Illinois, $200 BILLION in debts divided by 7 million (and shrinking like Detroit) taxpayers. Do the math.

        Then take a look at the federal debt and the amount of “new” money being printed and handed out like candy to the banksters. Who knows about the price of gasoline or global warming, that could kick our ass also by doubling fuel and food prices. The PIIGS in Eurpoe may very well collapse their Euro in the next few years. States like Illinois and California can do the exact same thing here.

        I’m just saying be prepared. What harm is there in that, besides pissing off liberals who want complete government control over everything anyway?

        As for all the thumbs down, thank you. If I’m not pissing off 98.5% of the voting public I’m not happy with myself.

  25. Chris says:

    Despite efforts dating back to 1972, marijuana remains on Schedule 1 of the Controlled Substances Act. Drugs in this category include cocaine, opium, heroin, and other highly addictive, deadly drugs.

    Cocaine is schedule 2. I think that is definitely worth knowing.

    • claygooding says:

      Chris go to the drug library and you will see that every since 1937 every study done on marijuana by congress and others has recommended legalization or decriminalization and our government has ignored every one,,,that alone points out that marijuana prohibition is a political ploy and isn’t justified by any measurement the drug czar or AG wants to use.

      Look under the major studies tab and read all the “studies” our legislators have ignored.

    • Matthew Meyer says:

      If you keep watching you will see this same mistake made over and over. Cocaine is the most common non-Schedule I said to be there; meth and PCP also crop up a lot.

      It is a telling sign of the idiocy of our drug laws that even journalists writing about them make this kind of error…over and over again.

    • Peter says:

      Chris, apart from that error, a helpful and fair article from someone whom I would not previously have have placed in the camp of drug reformers. Credit where it’s due etc.

      • Chris says:

        I’m not pointing out the error for any reason other than to highlight the fact that this is such an incredibly common error everywhere that I wouldn’t be surprised to hear it coming from anyone. People just can’t imagine that they already live in a world where meth and cocaine are more legal than weed in the United States, so when they finally learn about how scheduling works and the amount of effort to discredit medical marijuana they just assume it’s not possible and that checking that out would be a waste of time.

        • Peter says:

          I hear you Chris.
          Like so much else in the drug dirty-war, the vast majority of Americans have been deliberately kept in the dark about scheduling. It is only when an individual or family member is exposed to the direct consequences of the war that they notice, and of course, by then it’s too late.

  26. claygooding says:

    Study Links Marijuana Psychosis With Genetic Variation

    “”A new study suggests a specific genetic variation may increase the risk of developing marijuana-related psychosis. Researchers found people with the variation were twice as likely to develop a psychotic disorder when using marijuana. The risk increased up to sevenfold if they used marijuana daily, HealthDay reports.””

    Isn’t HealthDay the British or New Zealand outlet for most of their propaganda science? I guess David Evans and Calvina got their check from Kerli,,they are still spreading shit even they don’t believe.

    I keep asking where all the marijuana mental institutions are with the overcrowded conditions our prisons have because of marijuana,,but like the proclaimers that marijuana causes testicular cancer,,they don’t know any eunuchs.

    • Duncan20903 says:

      With special attention from the ONDCP which doesn’t include meth or cocaine in the category of prescription drugs used by people for reasons other than medicinal need. This reinforces the belief that those substances are not available by prescription therefore must be schedule I.

      I go back and forth on whether or not to point out that PCP is in Federal schedule II.

      First, it’s never been approved for use in human medicine.

      Second, there are a number of precursor reagents for PCP that are in schedule I which might render the point moot.

      Third, all States use the Uniform Controlled Substances Act and might include PCP in their State level schedule I which would also render the point moot.

      Last but not least is the fact that PCP is is at or near the bottom of the naughty list when the substances are ranked by popularity. Only 4,986 out of a total of 1,903,005 Americans were in “treatment” for PCP in 2010 according to the Federally employed bean counters.

      I couldn’t find any evidence that PCP is manufactured by licensed vendors for use as an animal tranquilizer or any other licit use. I’m not claiming that I made a comprehensive in depth search for wholesale or retail distribution chains but if they exist they’re keeping their presence very quiet. I only mention that because it wouldn’t shock me to learn that it happens in the case of a substance like this one.

      I got some by accident in 1987 and I sure don’t know how that shit ever got used a second time by anyone. I had to crawl on the wall of the motel to get to the ice machine and all the other guests were standing at their windows laughing at me, hundreds and hundreds of people. I didn’t know if I’d ever get back to my room alive and in one piece. If you ever have the opportunity to try PCP I highly recommend that you run away.

  27. CustomizableWhippet says:


    Apart from the tobacco companies, most Australians are proud that we will soon become the first country in the world to introduce plain packaging for cigarettes. We should be cautious whether we are the first or the 200th country to legalise cannabis. But being first should not stop us legalising cannabis any more than being first in an Olympic event should deter us from top-level sport.

    Some say we shouldn’t introduce another drug when alcohol and tobacco cause so much damage. Introduce another drug? Cannabis was introduced in Australia more than half a century ago. It’s already here. The Prime Minister and current and previous leaders of the opposition have all tried it. So have the current and previous two US presidents.

    The case for legalising cannabis in Australia is overwhelming. But don’t expect anything to happen quickly.


  28. TINMA says:

    “Continued silence from the administration.”

    Eh, we just punched the bully in the nose. Hes reeling from the shock and will regroup and be back with his bull friends. Count on it.

    • claygooding says:

      Possibly,,,I think the adding machines are estimating the cost of:

      A.Continuing increased funding keeping South American countries in prohibition mode.

      B.Expenses incurred raiding states that have legalized marijuana and the probability of getting a guilty verdict from any jury in America when they claim a vote of the people is illegal.

      C.The climbing costs of fighting legalization and mmj legislation in over 1/2 dozen states now moving forward with their own states plsns.

      I know that the DEA is not adding any of this up,,they don’t care,,but the Justice Department is the one that will be accused of dropping the ball if they get a hung jury or nullification attempting to prosecute legal growers,processors or outlets. And the Oversight Committee is watching this 24/7,,bet on it.

    • Byddaf yn egluro: says:

      … and be just in time to help stack the rubble into neat little piles.

    • Rick Steeb says:

      The avalanche has just begun. We shall NOT back down. The feds will. They are OUR servants. Literally.

  29. darkcycle says:

    Interesting new development… Feds have used a Grand Jury to subpoena Mendocino county records relating to the County’s administration of their MMJ program. Including records of taxes paid to the County by growers. Me thinks something is afoot. Do you guys think there is a plan to seize the revenues collected by the county? This would sure stifle the implementation of something like Washington’s scheme.
    I wonder if we may be headed for a grey-market here.

    • claygooding says:

      I was wondering the other day at another site,,,is the IRS guilty of money laundering when they accept tax monies paid from mmj dispensaries?

      Talk about targeted prosecution.

    • Matthew Meyer says:

      Holy crap!

      Sometimes I wonder if the feds are trying to make cannabis commerce as unsafe and unsavory as they can.

      Putting this kind of threat over the heads of everyone who participated in Mendo’s zip-tie program is a pretty good way to make sure everything stays as underground as possible.

      And that will lead to more incidents like this:

      Same with leaning on the use of ATMs at dispensaries.

      • darkcycle says:

        The courts have ruled you cannot prosecute a public servant for doing his/her job. But can they seize the money under the looser forfeiture statutes? That was my first thought.

        • Matthew Meyer says:

          Using asset forfeiture on a county government would be a pretty novel move. That would have to be pretty unpopular, I imagine. Not that I’d put it past ’em.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      What in the world makes people think that they could seize that money?

      You know, just because vendors of substances on the naughty lists call their profits tax free does not make it so. They still have to commit evasion of income taxes to keep that money.

      Let’s leave the hysterical rhetoric to the experts in that discipline. I mean the ones on the other side of the table. It’s much more likely that they want to prosecute the ones they haven’t caught.

  30. wiggles says:

    Shit just gots real. Can ya feel,can ya feel me crackas? Bust out the cheedios and start laughing. Whiteys be blasting niggas with triggas of authority, proscuting all the minoritys, evict them from their poor ass teritory. Straight fact from a horror story. Yah might say I’m boring,the the bongs just raised 7 stories. Cody Green just got serve with a warrant,for downloading illegal torrents.kitty porn for kevi sabet, he likes that shit cause he’s a facist faggot. Protect the children he claims,behind closed doors, he’s got em mangled in chains. That fucker’s deranged’ what’s to maintain status que, to keep drinking wiskey with his 12 year old hoes. Everybody knows, nobody says shit, becouse he’s like the neighborhood Herbert, it’s so funny he just won’t quit. Lemme take another jab at this bitch. Prohbition just got hit, happened oh so quick. Fed’s so silent,get ready for war to fight these tyrants. Remember to wish you were white,cause then yah won’t be forced to fight for your legal right…. ta live,in this mockery of a democracy. Nigga’s stand up speak out,get yah left tesical shot out.that’s what wiggles talking bout.cops be all sniffing, snout snout. Fuck this shit I’m out.

  31. Irie says:

    Some more interesting reading for those of you on the couch….

    And to you wiggles, you are just f**#ing stupid, I mean really, you really make no sense, is wiggles your cover name, Kevin?

    • darkcycle says:

      Cut the Wiggler a little slack, Irie. He (mostly) means well. He’s been through a lot. Just kinda watch what he does with his hands, and you’ll be alright.

      • Duncan20903 says:


        The wiggle dude is obviously too smart to be Kev-Kev. IMO he’s actually a doppelgänger of one one the regulars here. I always vote for darkcycle because he’s always right there whenever the wiggler makes an appearance.

        • darkcycle says:

          NOT ME! Seriously! Pete, PLEASE confirm those do NOT come from my computer. I haven’t used the N-word since I was ten. At camp I used it, and the helpful young man upon whom I used it taught me it was a faux pas by hitting me so hard he dislodged my retina. I have a thick corrective lens on that side of my face to forever remind me.
          I rather dislike that you persist in laying that at my doorstep.

        • darkcycle says:

          Thank you Pete. Really, I’m sure you know I appreciate that.

  32. wiggles says:

    If I was kevin why I say be be molestion,all the children, you feel me pilgrim? Fuck yourself cowboy,with a butt plug,better yet use it to stuff yah mug.tug it on tight,my flows got a vicious bite. Irie is a crybaby,daddy didn’t love,momma never gave any hugs,so you started using drugs,becouse of that family lack thereof. Kinda tough ani’t when you get dick stuffed up ya anus for a living,pay yah bills with anal thrills?nigga chill out before I knock yah lights out. You know you could rap like me. Your just sad becouse your lifes a pathedic tragity, kevin sabets a bitch,just like you, maybe you two should elope, tie the fucking knot ,and just double suicide,jump hanging from that rope. Irie your a joke.

  33. allan says:

    rollin’ rollin’ rollin’… keep them doobies rollin’…

    Cato Institute To Host ‘The Law And Politics Of Marijuana Legalization’ Forum

    Wednesday, December 12, 2012
    4:00 PM (Reception To Follow)

    Featuring Asa Hutchinson, Former Administrator, Drug Enforcement Administration; and Robert A. Mikos, Professor of Law and Government, Vanderbilt University Law School; moderated by Timothy Lynch, Director, Project on Criminal Justice, Cato Institute.

    The Cato Institute
    1000 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
    Washington, DC 20001

    • claygooding says:

      This will be interesting if not too accurate,,with Asa Hutchison sitting in and his past comments on marijuana any legalization plan from him will include sin taxes that will keep the DEA fighting illegal marijuana forever.

      • allan says:

        i been oot ‘n aboot eh, and I googled Professor Mikos and did some reading (still in progress)… Mr Hutchinson may have his hands full. This piece gives a fair idea of Mikos’ thinking:

        Showdown Looms In U.S. After Two States Vote To Legalize Marijuana

        “What [the federal government] has done is not so much to try to pursue criminal cases against medical marijuana dispensaries and distributors — criminal cases are very expensive. Instead it has tried to use civil forfeiture laws to try to seize the assets of the entities that are growing and distributing the marijuana,” Mikos says.

        “It’s much cheaper to do that [and] it’s easier to get a victory if you’re the federal government, so I suspect they might respond in that way if they want to try to crack down.”

        But those tactics, Mikos says, have not prevented the medical marijuana industry in states like California from “thriving.”

        He also says the federal government would be on “weak constitutional footing” if it were to challenge the laws before the Supreme Court. A provision known as the “anticommandeering rule” prevents the federal government from forcing states to enact or help enforce federal laws.

        • claygooding says:

          I was just going to research the other names for a broader view of the event,,but from my fence post it is as I stated before,,Asa is going stress sin taxes and heavy regulation for any state planning on legalization because the government has repeatedly stated that legalization will not stop the black market,,you can bet they will try to make sure it doesn’t.

          It won’t work though,,eventually straight America is going to see for themselves the lack of harm to people and our society and the sound of their voices of doom will be drowned out by the sledgehammers taking prohibition apart.

        • allan says:

          pardon if my personal social/cultural views seem a bit narrow here but consider what a perfect storm we have brewing.

          How many people out there, that aren’t friends of ganja, hate the UN more than pot and having the UN telling us what to do just grates them to the bone?

          For many years some of us have consistently appealed to those folks along the NRA line of thinking to see the parallels between their guns and our herb. If they can seize our gardens, they can decide to seize your guns. It’s not a long stretch.

          Citizen dissatisfaction w/ the feds is at an all-time high. 50 states have joined the secession petition drive. Latin America is kicking US drug policy around like a MalWart soccer ball…

          People are coming out of the woodwork, emboldened by the demonstration of the actual power of the ballot…

          … just sooo much agitation and this increasingly-ragged-looking wall will crumble at the foundation. Between the press coverage of the WA and CO votes, the increased public profile of LEAP and the tried and true modes of Opeds, LTEs and that motley crew of stoned barbarians wreaking havoc virtually everywwwhere on the interwweb, flinging points sharpened and polished from years of use, a relentless and focused drive – now – will devastate the prohibs.

          I’ll cast me runes and smoke me pipe and continue to chant down Babylon. Not only have we become a very obvious elephant in the room, we’re a pachyderm with ‘tude. Their salvation may be that we are cannabists instead of cannibals.

        • claygooding says:

          I feel the same about the pressure on the feds,,the adding machines are smoking from the rate of “added funding required” that we can expect to see fire drills being practiced at GAO.

  34. Jim Penn says:

    Anyone else get the idea that Pete’s gone out for his long weekend and left the store open for our enjoyment?(enjoyment optional)

    • allan says:

      maybe he rec’d a letter from his friend Barack inquiring if he’s interested in the job of de-constructing the ONDCP… (rumor has it they went to different schools together)

  35. wiggles says:

    Or we call all jack off, in a circle jerk,smoking together on some CO derk derk,baby you know how it work work. Make that legalized jizz sqwert sqwert. Yummy kevin sabets semen in my’s kinda funny he’s got all these playboy bunnys,and he’s about to lose alotta money. Bitch better start running,he’s gonna be gunning citizen’s down for not trying his third way aproch,becouse we know we could kill it quicker than a roach. His dick be all up in drug testing panties,they probably were his grannys. He’s gotta fancy for them werid fedishes, but if you smoke weed, he’s yah number one predator.lock up your children, he wishes they could go to straight inc. So they can brainwash them to think. But sabets shit stinks, we got control so grab yah bowl, and getting burning , so the rest of america can start learning. We’re yerning for knowelge, to get answers that are solid. Sabets faggot ass is scared, cause all that stuff in dare,was a ploy they toy with yah kids mind, even mind,as parents why are we blind. Couldn’t we read the signs,does government teach em with sabet,who’ll punish them with his 2 inche switch dick,or we flick the bic and teach our own kids the meaning of this shit. Get ready for the choom gang, they don’t smoke anymore that’s an old thang about how they hang,stop using choom for a slang. Time to maintain a list of all the children sabet allows to get hit,and molested by his bullshit methods.what kind of messege? Obey or become prey,fuck you yah better pray. The gays on the loose to tear a hole in yah caboose with a moose cock. What the fwak. I don’t know anymore,am I a big time troll ready for some sleezy interwebs hoe. Does anyone got a porno site? I wanna jack of tonight on Irie becouse they made anew enemy

    • darkcycle says:

      Alright, there is no REQUIREMENT for slack….
      Somebody throw a bud up into the attic, and this time, latch the door behind him…

    • Irie says:

      Me ras, wiggles you maud in the head, sick mon, you need some help, mon, me tell Jah to help your sorry ass, you need all prayers you can get, as me smoke on me chism…..Jah Rastafari! Now me vexed! Me ras!!

  36. Byddaf yn egluro: says:


    Brazil’s biggest city, Sao Paulo, saw 176 killings in October, more than double the number in the same period last year, official figures show.

    The data was released just hours after Sao Paulo’s security chief, Antonio Ferreira Pinto, resigned amid a wave of violence in the city.

    So far this year, 95 officers have been killed, compared with 47 in 2011.
    According to figures from Sao Paulo’s public security ministry, 176 people were killed last month, compared with 82 in October last year.

    Across the entire state of Sao Paulo, there were 571 murders – a rise of 48% on October 2011.

    The violence erupted in May when police from a unit known as “the Rota” shot dead six men.

    Since then, there appears to have been a wave of retaliation from a gang known as the PCC, or First Command of the Capital.

    Many attacks on officers are believed to be arranged from inside prison by jailed gang members.

    There were several more murders in the greater Sao Paulo area on Wednesday night.

    • claygooding says:

      Until these governments around the world take the gangs cash cow away from them the violence will continue to grow and murder rates,by police and gangs will continue to rise.

    • Windy says:

      My elder son is currently in Ica, Peru taking part in a sand boarding event there. I really hope he returns home safe and sound. he was invited to participate and the event sponsor paid his round trip airfare and his hotel for 9 days/nights, so I figured he’d be safe enough from criminal activity, and all I would worry about was the possibility of and accident and injury.

  37. Scott says:

    “Continued silence from the administration.”

    Continued silence from Pete. 🙂

    I think (and hope) I can say on behalf of all of us with perfect confidence that we are thankful for you, Pete, and all that you are doing for our just cause.

  38. claygooding says:

    Pete is probably show bizzin somewhere,,tis the season,,,happy birdday all,,may you all eat more than you need,toke all you want and enjoy the silence.

    Now I have to go fix the candied yams:

    4 sweet potatoes,microwave for 5 mins in a plastic bag,,cool enough to handle then peel them and slice in 1/2 inch slices and layer into baking pan or dish.

    In a sauce pan,melt 2 sticks of margarine/butter,add 2 packed cups light brown sugar and stir until it boils and syrup looks clear,,pour over sliced sweet taters,cover with 1/2 inch layer of marshmallows,I use the small ones but either will work,place in oven @ 275 degrees for 10 minutes or until topping browns nicely.


  39. ezrydn says:

    Happy Thanksgiving to all. I’m thankful to have the quality of friends I have here. I’m thankful Johnny Pee had the idea of “Pete’s Couch” and that we’ve got a Pete that followed up. I’m thankful that I’m able to see the wall start to crumble before my check-out time. I’m thankful I’ve been able to endure this battle since the late ’60s and finally see true “hope and change” in our struggle. Yet, mostly, I’m thankful I found God’s answer to a better life.

    Thanks for the bits of joy you’ve all added to my life over this last year. You’re a great band of warriors!

  40. darkcycle says:

    Happy Thanksgiving….and damn, do we have something to give thanks for! We’ve seen the beginning of the end. Enjoy this day. We have all earned it.

    • thelbert huffman says:

      happy thanksgiving to all the happy couchmates. may your appetites be sated. thank you, pete, for the forum.

  41. Mooky says:

    Happy thanksgiving everyone.

    I’m excited to add A “thanks to beginning of the end of marijuana prohibition” to the grace tradition today! It should surprise some family and give them something to think about.

  42. Duncan20903 says:

    This one’s from the “the phrase ‘alcohol and drugs’ is the semantic equivalent of the phrase ‘pizza and food’ ” category:

    Winery president denies marijuana trafficking link
    Nov 22, 2012

    “We make very good wine, but no, we’re not in the drug trafficking business,” said Greg Holman, president of the Fellowship of Friends and the Renaissance Winery.

  43. Deep Dish says:

    What’s up with Gallup? The one big disappoint with the election was that there was no Gallup poll to feast on. I ate turducken for Thanskgiving and the annual poll is just as tasty as damn delicious turducken.

    They still have a few weeks left, of course, but I pulled up historical data showing the latest release date was November 10-12 back in 2003, as far as I can tell.

    C’mon Gallup, let’s have some fun while we wait in silence.

    Merry Thanksgiving to all.

    (Ever notice how Thanksgiving gets skipped over? It’s like Halloween is the official start of the Christmas decoration season. I once saw entire gingerbread houses pop up the next night after Halloween.)

  44. BongoOla says:

    Hi All,

    I think I’ll join in and take a seat in the couch.


    • allan says:

      yeah… ya know BongoOla, this isn’t a couch ya otta sit in… we’ve lost folks in there before. But there is lots of room sitting on the couch… just sayin’.

    • darkcycle says:

      You can sit anywhere you like, but Kap’n has dibs on the end with the table over there.

      • kaptinemo says:

        (Rumbles ominously) Nobody gets between me and the Gardettos…(evil grin) ‘specially the garlic ones…

  45. Windy says:

    Spain, Portugal and NINETEEN Latin American countries call on UN to review global drug policy by 2015 (article in Spanish)

    • claygooding says:

      By 2015 either the federal government will end prohibition of hemp or we will be in such poor economical condition from the increasing drug war budget that our ambassador to the UN will have to furnish his own ride.

  46. Comment135 says:


    A cross-party committee will look at whether marijuana can be used as an effective and safe form of pain relief for sufferers of chronic illnesses.

    Labor’s leader in the NSW Upper House Luke Foley moved the motion to set up the inquiry.

    Mr Foley said it will also examine what legal implications surround the medical use of cannabis and how it might be supplied.

    The NSW Opposition says an Upper House inquiry into the medical use of marijuana will help the debate to be dominated by evidence, instead of dogma.


  47. Duncan20903 says:

    Have we ever looked into making sure that these people aren’t mistaking horse mint or sage or even cured dog turds for our dear Mary Jane? It just struck me that we do just take their word that it is the vegetable matter being tested. But is that a very smart thing to presume since we know that the drug warriors aren’t particularly honest and have no room in their lives for ethics?

    We also know that they’re blistering idiots. So what would be so farfetched to think that it might happen simply from gross incompetence?

    Cops’ 400 Pot Plants Turn Out to Be Horsemint

    I can’t believe its not merrywanna!

    Marijuana Withdrawal Linked to Behavior Changes in People with Schizophrenia

    There’s got to be a factual explanation of why the government’s descriptions of us bears no resemblance to our reality whatsoever. I know, I know that it is just propaganda but if you want people to believe your propaganda it should bear a striking resemblance to reality, not cause people to discount your entire argument as utter hogwash. I don’t know, perhaps they really are as crazy as bat shit.

    “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth.” ~~ Sherlock Holmes

    • allan says:

      man… from a test group of 120 people they draw some powerful conclusions (or concussions from the mental gymnastics req’d to reach those conclusions). 120 people extrapolates to “most people” in which universe?

    • darkcycle says:

      Oh fer gawdssake…..I spend more time being ashamed of my former profession than I ever thought possible. Will you LOOK at this….
      “The most common symptom was marijuana craving (59.2%), followed by feeling anxious (52.6%), feeling bored (47.5%), feeling sad or depressed (45.8%), feeling irritable or jumpy (45.0%), feeling restless (43.3%), and difficulty falling asleep (33.3%).”
      According to these quacks, feeling anxious or bored is a symptom of MERRYWANNA withdrawl! And who knew?…FEELING SAD is a symptome of MERRYWANNA withdrawl (and I always thought it was depression. Boy, am I ever dumb). Difficulty falling asleep- MERRYWANNA WITHDRAWL!
      I would guess all of that (with the exception of symptom #1) could be applied to anybody making a life change. So, next time you have to move, or have a pending job interview and you experience these problems, you will be able to recognize what is REALLY wrong with you: MERRYWANNA WITHDRAWL!!!!

  48. comment138 says:

    avatar check

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