Open Thread redux

I am running myself ragged in New York, but having a splendid time. Giving walking tours each day to the students and then last night spend three hours as an audience member in a mask chasing performers at full speed up and down flights of stairs through 100 rooms on 5 floors of a warehouse (“Sleep No More“).

So I don’t have anything more for you right now, but you folks are doing great in comments. Thought you needed a new thread. 🙂

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136 Responses to Open Thread redux

  1. UlverstonWitherslackReturns says:

    Thanks Pete!

  2. darkcycle says:

    Hope everyone is primed for the Google+ IQ2 debate coming up here in three hours…
    Peter Hitchens, Sir Richard Branson (He’s not a virgin, he’s lying) etc. I’ll be there, you can apparently join in the online debate in Google Plus…so I signed up for an account.

    • Ed Dunkle says:

      Thanks for posting that link. I watched the entire 2 hour debate, although General Whathisname was tough to swallow.

      Nice to see Julian Assange address the fundamental right to alter ones mood. Hope that guy doesn’t end up being tried by some Eliot Spitzer wannabee.

  3. allan says:

    Outstanding article on needle exchange in the Atlantic:
    The War on Drug Users: Are Syringe Exchanges Immoral?

    In New York City, the rate of new HIV infections among drug users fell 80 percent after the city implemented syringe exchanges. And the cost savings from such programs have been enormous: A clean syringe costs about $0.97 (PDF), according to Human Rights Watch. The average lifetime cost for treating HIV, in contrast, is around $300,000.

    • Peter says:

      So Porky Hal Rogers wants to save the government 97cents a pop for syringes. Check out the Anderson Cooper report on the Prince of Pork and just how wasteful he can be with taxpayers money when it comes to getting himself re-elected:

      • John says:

        A great deal of Hal Rodgers’ pork was used to create “Operation UNITE” in his district in southeastern Kentucky. That organization is responsible for imprisoning far too many of my fellow Kentuckians (thousands) and bringing total misery down upon many many thousands more. A more evil prohibitionist regime does not exist anywhere in America.

  4. Mooky says:

    Cant wait to watch that debate!! :).

  5. thelbert says:

    if i was in nyc i’d try to see david letterman, but that’s just me. have fun, pete.

  6. allan says:

    not bad for MSNBC:

    The Rev. Pat Robertson says America should legalize marijuana. Would Jesus agree? (tho’ their site is so loaded with add-on crap it drove my browser nuts – dog bless dial-up – I thought it appropriate)

  7. darkcycle says:

    Jus’ hangin’ out waiting for the start of the debate.

  8. darkcycle says:

    Big giant straw man from Maria-Costa, Unbelieveably bad argumentation! He makes the claim that Legalizers claim crime will disappear overnight.

  9. darkcycle says:

    Costa has nothing BUT straw men. His other main reason to keep drugs illegal is because wealthy corporate speculators and businessmen want it legal. He seems to think we’re all rich capitalists…. I laughed so hard at the irony of his claim I almost peed.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      I think we need a new strategy. Taking on their straw men one at a time is getting us nowhere. They simply have too many of them. Every time we incinerate one they just get three more off of the delivery truck. We need to find and target the location of their straw man manufacturing facility. Take them out at the source and be done with them.

      • darkcycle says:

        We need to bring goats. A secret weapon. Cows don’t like straw, but goats…goats are another matter. While the goat is going after the straw men, we can grab the ladle of legalization and high tail it out of the castle, before the worm king of prohibition knows what hit him.
        Too much time playing Dungeons and Dragons as a bored High School kid. What can I say? 🙂

  10. darkcycle says:

    Spizter is up for the opposition now.

  11. darkcycle says:

    Oh, he is SUCH a lawyer…

  12. allan says:

    keep up the comments on the debate, it’s the best view I can get.

    If anybody has one of those million watt spotlights, here is a “discussion” on Pat Robertson’s repeating his stance on legalizing the herb on a Christian blog that could use some light:

    Pat Robertson, Marijuana, Drug Use and the Bible

  13. darkcycle says:

    Hitchens is a piece of work. He blew his crediblity sky high by insisting cannabis is an “incredibly dangerous drug”. And he thinks that pleasure should be criminalized.

    • allan says:

      yep – euphoria is dangerous. Cracke me up first time I saw that as a dangerous side effect Can’t have people happy, by dog!

      • claygooding says:

        Need a better internet connection for the live feeds I guess,,bunch of skipped parts and will have to watch the videos(already up at the site)for a better analysis,,but all I saw the prohibs rant was it is a moral duty to continue,,no scientific or statistical evidence,,,just gotta do it CAUSE.

        I think the results will be for ending the WOsD side of the debate in the peoples minds,,but politicians will be listening to their money guys,,not the people.

  14. ezrydn says:

    Missed first cycle. Caught all the rest. The prohibs truly have no ammo for their guns! Hitchens made me laugh. “MJ is illegal because it’s wrong.” Say again? We’re back to assigning morality to a plant, I see. They seem to be sure of CA this go around. And, by their own admissions, their Chicken Little mentality keeps them afraid of legalization. They can’t remember back when ALL illegals were legal and we had no problems within society with them. Narrow minded and short sighted.

    If we’re doomed to repeat the past, let it be when all drugs were legal!

  15. darkcycle says:

    Well, the results showed majority overall increased for legalization, but of the 3% undecided they started out with, the swing accrued more to the prohibition side (meaning, for the moment, that both sides saw an increase, but the increase was somewhat greater on the anti side). This means we need to refine and simplify our arguments.
    Also, Spitzer should be a salesman if he ever quits as a lawyer/politician. He’s a bully boy, but he can slide curves by the best of ’em. Constantly claiming, over and over that we do not lock up users. And there’s really no “war” (please ignore the storm troopers with automatic weapons who just kicked in your door), that we are really just destroying your life out of kindness. No wonder he was a world class prosecutor. His was a land of straw men and false equivalencies that rivaled anything ever concocted by Lewis Carrol. And Barry McCaffery was his usual, sadistic self, arguing that the only way to get addict to seek treatment was at the barrel of a gun. Overall, the legalization side was well held up, but they constantly were cornered into defense, seldom getting to press salient arguments effectively and ceding the position of aggressor to the prohibitionist bully boy Spitzer. We got a better debate captain for our side when The British former judge (I’ve spaced his name suddenly) realized Spitzer had turned the audience into a jury pool, and picked up the gauntlet. Good fun.
    And a terrific shout out to the Wife of the Year, for coming home in the middle of grading final exams and projects to allow darkcycle to take the time to watch. Thanks, Hon. 😉

    • allan says:

      wife AND good friend… rock on!

      and thanks for the commentary, much appreciated.

      Any good bout will have both sides necessarily playing some defense but Damitol® we’ve been on the defensive long enough and have built a formidable offensive arsenal. Attack I say… the scurvy dogs are nervous. And with good reason…

  16. Peter says:

    anyone got a link to the debate?

  17. jhelion says:

    here’s an interesting story – metabolites related:

    boxer with metabolites fights the establishment:

    • Peter says:

      never heard of adhd as a symptom for treatment by medicinal cannBis before.

      • Boil'emDry says:

        In the spring of 1971, the tsunami of mega-vandalism, that had washed over our high school for nigh-on a whole year, suddenly and mysteriously, came to a dead halt. No more slashed fire hoses, desks thrown from second story windows, rose trellises cut at their bases, or tropical fish boiled in their tanks. Only one newly-mellowed-out, 14 year old pupil knew why {:>)

    • Duncan20903 says:


      Oh fiddle sticks. I guess I have to start reading the posts before I do.

      Of course this is a concern. If all these fighter guys start smoking pot they might forget why they’re so mad at each other that they want to have a fist fight. People aren’t going to pay to watch these mens hug each other and giggle.
      Peter there’s most certainly a large cohort of patients who use cannabis to mitigate anxiety disorders.

      Others have fewer qualms about giving a kid with ADHD some pot.

      “I’d have no hesitation giving a youngster with ADHD a trial of oral marijuana,” Lester Grinspoon, emeritus professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and author of “Marijuana: The Forbidden Medicine,” told Sphere.

      “For some kids, it appears to be more effective than traditional treatments. And marijuana certainly has fewer potential dangers than Ritalin.”

      Ritalin, like its cousin Adderall, is a treatment for ADHD, but it’s also an amphetamine.

  18. strayan says:

    Hmmm… interesting:

    I was not aware that PepisCo and Coca Cola had been adulterating their drug.

    Thankfully, we can regulate the product (because it’s legal!).

  19. Mary Warner says:

    “Marijuana replaces Ritalin treatment in Children and Adolescents with ADD/ADHD”

  20. Francis says:

    Hmm… I’ve seen two different know-nothings link to this article in the past 24 hours as proof that “marijuana is bad, m’kay.” I’m also pretty sure I’ve seen it quoted in the past. Is this like one of their go-tos? Because it is some seriously weak tea.

  21. kaptinemo says:

    Evo Morales of Bolivia is back-handing the UNODC, and Commissar, uh, er, Director Fedotov is starting to sweat bullets.

    From the article:

    Bolivia has withdrawn from the convention but hopes to re-join with a reservation recognizing coca chewing.

    It is unclear, however, whether it will secure sufficient support among other countries to be able to do that.

    “We know that some countries already conveyed to us their strong opposition,” Yury Fedotov, head of the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC), told a news conference.

    Fedotov expressed concern that this kind of request from Bolivia, in the long run, could undermine international law in the area of drugs control and could have a “domino effect”.

    Nye chert, Sherlock. And that’s what the other Central and South American nations are just itching to do, seeing as this is shaping up to be a classic Developed/Developing Nation confrontation.

    They’ve had enough, and this time they mean business. Napolitano’s and Biden’s ‘visits’ in an attempt to strongarm the CA and SA leaders almost certainly has backfired…as predicted here. Gringo moolah isn’t worth what it used to be, but nothing can buy their pride. And that’s partly what is powering this.

  22. kaptinemo says:

    Oh, and in case if you were ever wondering if we were winning…

    from the same article:

    The head of Russia’s Federal Drug Control Service, Victor Ivanov, spoke of the need to do “everything we can against legalizing drugs,” when asked about his position on Bolivia’s campaign in favor of recognizing coca leaf consumption there.

    R. Gil Kerlikowske, the director of U.S. National Drug Control Policy, said Washington “steadfastly opposes the legalization of drugs,” in a speech, but did not mention Bolivia.

    Sounds like somebody’s really worried, huh? As they have good reason to be. As the old saying goes, “Comes the revolution…”

  23. primus says:

    Curious: How much do you get paid for each click? I have been hammering the proselytizers link to send money your way and cost them as much as possible. So far about 50 clicks. Usually after a few, they stop, but not these folks. Wondering two things; how much money have I directed your way, and how long will they keep this up?

    • kaptinemo says:

      I’m assuming that’s addressed to me? I’m not paid anything for the links I provide. Wish I were; like almost all reformers I am not some deep-pocketed ‘special interest’ like Big Booze or Big Pharma, and I sure as Hell am not sucking off the Gub’mint teat while working to undermine the democratic process like ONDCP does. Jus’ lil’ ol’ me, in trench mud up to my knees, and my wallet makes a woooosh sound when I open it because the air replaces the vacuum inside from lack of cash. Soros I ain’t…

      • claygooding says:

        That is the point I tried to make the other day,,most advocates for reform,especially marijuana legalization,are not paid nor do they expect to see monies for their efforts,,only freedom..while I have met very few voluntary prohibs,,,if you dig deep enough,sometimes in plain sight,you find the motivation is anchored in them making money from prohibition.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          Ethan Nadelman is the only reform advocate that I’m aware of with a substantial salary. He’s got a compensation package worth ~$250k per year. But I’m certain he could clear twice that if he hung out a shingle or got a job at a more substantial non-profit. For perspective, the CEO of the Girl Scouts of America is at ~$600k.
          Drug Policy Alliance statistics

          Rob Kampia has a total compensation package of about $125k. I’m sure that sounds like a lot of money to people who live in other parts of the Country but in DC it’s only “comfortable. You really can’t buy a decent place to live for less than $200k unless you’re willing take a 90 mile commute. I mean 90 miles to work and 90 miles to get home.
          Marijuana Policy Project Foundation statistics

          I swear that Charity Navigator used to list NORML and Allan St. Pierre had a salary of 63k but I can’t find it anymore.

        • claygooding says:

          I make $100 dollars a month,,,so it looks like I have a ways to go b4 these guys will invite me to dinner.

      • primus says:

        Sorry, meant clicks on ads. They pay, don’t they? I understood that every time I click on an ad on your site you get a few pence.

    • darkcycle says:

      Clarify, please?

  24. Duncan20903 says:


    Starting around six months ago I noticed that the number of elite level professional and amateur athletes getting busted for possession and it’s still accelerating. In just the last few months there’s been a certain brouhaha being generated by those “ultimate fighters.” I hadn’t really paid attention because I’ve very little interest in big, sweaty mens that travel around whopping other big, sweaty mens upside the head and making all sorts of money. Recently a guy named Nick Diaz tested positive for THC-cooh metabolites @ 25ng/ml (urine).

    As a result the State of Nevada has suspended his fighter’s license for six months. But what I found fascinating is his defense he’ll be using to appeal the suspension. He is saying that THC-cooh is not on the naughty list maintained by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA).

    Oh yes, he’s also claiming to be a licensed medicinal cannabis patient under Nevada law. Unfortunately it’s for ADHD so a lot of people are going to discount that claim without a second thought. (Here Nick, take some of this Desoxyn® brand methamphetamine instead. It’s FDA approved!)

    Diaz attorney Ross Goodman, the son of Las Vegas Mayor Carolyn Goodman, said that the metabolites that appeared in Diaz’s urine are an inactive ingredient in marijuana and do not appear on the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) banned list used by Nevada.

    Goodman pointed out that marijuana is on WADA’s banned list during competition. What is banned, however, is Delta-9-Tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, the active ingredient in marijuana. Diaz tested positive for the presence of THC following a 2007 fight in Las Vegas and served a six-month suspension.

    I’m skeptical that his defense will work but it’s refreshing to come across some people who can actually differentiate between Δ9-THC and THC-cooh. Not even most potheads get that one right.

    Has anyone else noticed how many athletes are getting popped lately?

    • darkcycle says:

      Cody Pfister is the son of an old friend (He’s on ultimate fighters on the FX channel in this round, just fought last week). I can’t say about Cody….but his dad is an old friend of darkcycle’s….a really old friend. 😉

    • allan says:

      Joe Rogan (Fear Factor, UFC play by play) is one of those who says these guys (fighters) love what the herb does for them, especially post-fight. As a neuroprotectant ganja should be available for use by any contact sports player. Ricky Williams wasn’t weird for wanting to have his bud.

      And I just remembered… one of you regular ‘taters made a statement about how cannabis should be a frontline medicine in the beginning treatment of many conditions as there is nothing – literally – safer than cannabis. Whomever said it, could you repeat it please? The thought isn’t gnu but that expression of it was quite eloquent and I’d like to adopt it. (I’ll give it a good home) Please and thanking you.

      • darkcycle says:

        I think that may have been me..I believe I said something along the order of ” Indeed, since Cannabis is free of any major side effects, and has zero potential for drug interactions, it can and SHOULD be used as a front line medication.”
        And if those words suit, please propagate them!

        • Francis says:

          Yeah, darkcylce, I remember being really struck by that comment (and wanting to tuck it away for future use). But don’t forget the zero overdose risk. I’d probably also add that cannabis doesn’t lead to physical dependence.

          “Since cannabis is free of any major side effects, incapable of causing a fatal overdose, does not lead to physical dependence, and has zero potential for drug interactions, it can and should be used as a frontline medication.”

          No reason not to pile on, eh?

        • darkcycle says:

          Occasionally I come up with a good one. 🙂

        • allan says:

          Thanks for finding that Francis. A nicely turned phrase can be as attractive as a nicely turned ankle… and yes, that is a good one dc.

        • darkcycle says:

          Thanks, Allan. Hey AddyCat, you out there lurking? How did that LTE go..did it get published?

        • AddyCat says:

          hey dark, I drafted it but my profs wanted to wait until after the event we’re hosting in April to see if we can convince more people to sign on. If other people don’t support it, though, I’ll probably just submit it on my own behalf.

        • darkcycle says:

          Cool. Good to hear from you!

  25. kaptinemo says:

    Why it’s so important to emphasize the need to cast the issue in economic terms, as this is where we, ourselves, will be heading soon:

    Greece on the breadline: the children of Athens too hungry to do PE

    Yes, it’s another country and, no, it doesn’t directly have to do with illegal drugs, but you can bet your arse that the Greeks have cut back on any Gub’mint operations in ‘controlling’ the drug trade because of this massive implosion of the Greek economy and society. They have to, or face a truly angry, restive and vengeance-minded populace. Wasting money on ‘drug control’ when people are going hungry isn’t a good political move, and when people get desperate, they’ll eventually get violent. And most Greeks don’t have guns.

    A lot of Americans do. Which is why the 1% is working so hard to have their minions pass increasingly fascistic laws to lock up civil liberties under the rubric of ‘fighting drugs’ and ‘counter-terrorism’, when the waves from the epicenter that originated in the US comes back from the foreign shores and finally hits ours, full force.

    Keep hitting at the economic angle, keep pointing out people, kids, are already going hungry in this country and more will follow if we keep wasting money on tanks for Barney Fife. And do it as publicly as possible. Ask the prohibs how can they say they’re worried about kids falling prey to drugs when they should be more concerned that their bellies are empty and there’s no roof over their heads…because of tanks for Barney Fife.

    Because today it’s Greece and Spain and Portugal and Ireland. Tomorrow it’ll be our turn. And if we don’t re-allocate resources fast enough, we may even see a civil war in our future. And only a madman wants that.

    • darkcycle says:

      Yeah. Problem is they expect a civil war and they’re mobilizing for just that. THAT is why they spend the money on Tanks for Barney Fife and not on housing or social services. They fully expect that and that’s what they are preparing for. That’s why the little self preservation elf in my guts has been screaming like a banshee for the last ten years. I listen to my elf, he’s saved my ass way too many times in the past to be ignored.

      • kaptinemo says:

        You aren’t the only one with an ‘elf’.

        Having a mind like the computers I work on is hazardous to your sense of illusion. I don’t forget much. History is not dead to me, it’s like an ocean, and we’re all living in it like fish in the sea, ‘right here, right now!’. The problem is that there’s sharks in the water, too. Extremely wealthy and dangerous ones.

        The kind of illusion I mentioned is the one that those in de facto control of society seek to perpetuate…until the facade crumbles, and you get to see what was behind it. Civilization is a veneer, and a very thin one. What happens when that veneer wears out completely is no fun.

        By that time, the 1%ers will be in their taxpayer-funded hidey-holes (into which, of course, you’re not invited), and everyone else is left to sink or swim. And when things start to settle down, they’ll come out all ready to be our naked, bald-faced new Master Class, no pretenses about democracy or rights anymore.

        Case in point: know where Warren Buffet was on 9/11? Very conveniently at a golf course close to NORAD, which dispatched a team to pick him and his rich pals up and spirit them away to Cheyenne Mountain as soon as the SHTF. Whereas you and I and everybody else were left to swing in the wind. And of what possible strategic importance to the defense of the US does that man and his rich friends have? The only secrets he probably has is what kind of dirt he has on his fellow 1%ers…who look after each other and to Hell with the hoi polloi.

        Yes, my ‘elf’ occasionally replaces the Muse in my ears and I listen…and prepare.

        • Duncan20903 says:


          If the powers that be were able to fully control people Marie Antoinette would have been buried with her head still attached to her body.

          Speaking of Mme. Antoinette we need to remember that sometimes translations from other languages lose the meaning the speaker intended. Cake was not like a birthday cake, it was a waste product discarded by the bakeries. A better translation of what she meant would be “let them dumpster dive.”

        • darkcycle says:

          Yes, 100% correct, Duncan. The bloody insurrections that make that point are what I (we, if I can presume to speak for the Kap’n) fear more than anything else.

        • kaptinemo says:

          You’re quite correct. All you have to do is recall what happened in NOLA after Katrina. No insurrection, but the conditions were certainly ripe for them. Not that long ago, but the images are seared into my brain along with all the other horrid sh*t I’ve seen in places I can’t say much about.

          If you want a feel for what it might be like, especially for the ‘Average American’, there are a few YouTube videos that detail how the beginnings of a full-on financial collapse will look like, so people will know what to look for despite our corp-rat-ly controlled MSM.

          I also strongly suggest that people get their hands on a copy of the movie The Trigger Effect and understand that that movie’s premise is the mildest that we could hope for.

        • kaptinemo says:

          And as I have been saying for the longest time, ‘continuity of government’ doesn’t specify what kind of government will exist, only that one will. And that this survival of government will not necessarily ensure survival of the people; quite the opposite, as those in power are ever fearful of those who are not and have drawn their plans accordingly.

    • Maria says:

      Is it just me or has there been a rise in the reporting of shootings lately? It’s like every couple of days I see another headline when I go to the Google news aggregator.

      • darkcycle says:

        Economy is crashing, and we have a large cohort of desperate people. And there’s a new cohort of returning soldiers, who now have violence firmly established in their personalities. It’s an unpopular view of the origins of social violence, but I will again recommend “Why They Kill”, Richard Rhodes and any work by Lonnie Athens at Georgetown University.

  26. thelbert says:

    a hungry mob is an angry mob, according to mob barley.

  27. Duncan20903 says:

    With utterance of just a few words Mitch McConnell moves into 1st place for the honor of winning the 2012 Idiot of the Year award!

    • claygooding says:

      It was one of the articles that brought a lot of cannabis users forward during the efforts to pass 215 in CA in 2005.

  28. Servetus says:

    Re dispensary raids, Boulder District Attorney Stan Garnett tells U.S Attorney John Walsh to f#@k off:

  29. Francis says:

    There’s a Far Side comic that shows two cows about to cross a stream with a sign in front of it warning about piranhas. One cow is reading to the other from a guide book, saying, “Hold up, Niles, these little fish have been known to skeletonize a cow in less than two minutes. Now there`s a vivid thought.” Apparently it is a pretty vivid thought because its one of the comics I still remember from my childhood. (Side note: I was a HUGE Far Side fan as a kid and owned all the collections. It’s actually kind of amazing how many of them I can still remember. Gary Larson is the man.)

    Anyways, it occurs to me that we reformers are the piranhas, the Internet is our stream, and the drug warriors are a bunch of slow-moving and dim-witted cows. When they wander into our environment, things go badly for them. For example, I think this used to be Bill Bennett. Does anyone have a copy of his dental records so I can be sure?

    • darkcycle says:

      Damn it Francis, I thought you were linking to a cartoon, not a caricature. I was stoned and had found my happy place. Now look what you’ve done!

    • Duncan20903 says:


      When discussing the war on some drugs with people from the other side of the table I often think of Mr. Larson’s “what we say to dogs/what they hear” but substitute the word “prohibitionists” for “dogs” in my mind.

      “Blah blah legalize heroin blah” indeed.

    • kaptinemo says:

      They really don’t understand the Internet…or the minds that created it. Partly because those minds were augmented by psychotropics.

      The very computers the prohibs barely know how to turn on were derived from endless bull-sessions fueled by various fungi, cannabis, indole extractions, ergot derivations, etc. to unshackle the mind’s culturally inculcated restrictions and stoke creativity. The result quietly revolutionized our lives, and continues to do so.

      Bennett and his ilk = horse and buggy. They’re anachronisms without the good sense to realize their day passed…long ago. But people like him generally believe themselves to be culture-warriors versions of Horatious at the Bridge, not realizing the ‘bridge’ they seek to force us to use and the toll they wish to charge – forced conformity – have been bypassed by that Internet superhighway…and those who navigate it with an ease the prohibs can only seethingly envy.

      The prohib’s suasion only works on similarly shuttered brains. Brains limited by both imagination and fear of anything that reduces their (mostly illusory) ‘control’. They just can’t bring themselves to realize that they never were able to compete in the ‘market of ideas’ since only another prohib wants to ‘buy’ what they’re ‘selling’.

      It’s kind of sad, really. Sometimes I feel like a mammal who was watching a T-Rex sinking into a tar pit might have. But then I remember how dangerous they are, and then I am tempted to toss them a lead-filled life-preserver…

  30. Dave in Florida says:

    Here is a link to the Google/Versus Drug War Debate “should Drugs be Legalized” It was very good..

    • Boil'emDry says:

      Thanks Dave!

    • Peter says:

      Yes, thanks Dave…..been waiting to see that. Some thoughts:
      Costa-Maria seems to have picked up the kevin sabet model for just ignoring time sharing agreements and wanting to monopolize the debate. Sarah Maitles, normaly a pretty good moderator of debates just seemed to let him get away with it.
      Why are prohibitionists always so damned ugly? Could it be an outward manifestation of ugly thoughts? Peter Hitchens a total joke, even his team-mate Eliot Spitzer clearly thought so (by the way, Russell Brand kind of hinted at Spitzer’s fall from grace as governor, but nobody brought up Sp’s own career destroying addiction to sex).
      The prize for all round ugliness though must go to barry mcCaffrey…. those dead, alcoholic eyes and the bizarre image he introduced of him walking out of the building “smoking a doobie.” Scariest thought of all though was his comment about how he’d only get arrested if he was “breaking into your house or working as a male prostitute….” now there’s a truly horrible image.

      • Duncan20903 says:

        Fred Garvin isn’t worried about the competition.

        ($@%&ing commercial viewing required)

      • darkcycle says:

        He forgot, he’d also have to be Ethnic. Then he wouldn’t make it five steps.

      • Peter says:

        i’d forgotten that spitzer was not the only one with with a past on the prohibs side. Ian “lord” blair has the distinction of being the only commissioner of the metropolitan police to be fired from his post. Following the “mistaken identity” shooting of a man suspected of being about to blow up a tube train blair launched into an extraordinary campaign of spin, lies and threats to prevent the truth getting out. Sounds like he’s still doing that on behalf of the wosd.

  31. strayan says:

    Some news from down-under:

    The incarceration rate in the Northern Territory is ~696 per 100,000.

    Between 2000 and 2009, the imprisonment rate of Indigenous Australians increased 66 percent (from 1,248 to 1,891 per 100 000).

    And you think the US has a monopoly on racist drug policy! We’re still jailing blacks for alcohol possession!

  32. strayan says:

    This scam is brought to you by the prison industrial complex:

  33. Nunavut Tripper says:

    As most of you know the Canadian Omnibus crime bill has passed parliament to everyones dismay including many members of the Conservative party.
    It appears the GEO group among other jail advocates were lobbying for this one.

    • kaptinemo says:

      More of Harper heeding his corp-rat master’s voice. It’s just like what that political animation back in 2004 said he was going to do once elected. To paraphrase an old Doors song, “If ya give this man a ride, sweet Canada will die.” And he wants a majority?

      He’s selling out his country to the Elite whose arse he kissed while on bended knee in Versailles, France in 2003. Plug his name, year, and add that city and country into a search engine and wonder why Canadian media didn’t have much to say about this incredibly important meeting.

  34. claygooding says:

    Kilday Hart: Filmmaker urges U.S. response to Mexican bloodshed

    “Just put your cute little faces on the floor,” a woman’s voice urges in Spanish. “Nothing is happening … please don’t lift your heads.” All eyes look to the teacher, who urges the crouching children to sing about chocolate raindrops.

    “”Raindrops … are made of chocolates,” she says, in a sing-song coo. “Lie on your heads and open your mouths for the raindrops.” More gunfire rings out, but the inspired suggestion of chocolate quiets the bobbing heads, and eager little tongues appear.”” ‘snipped’

    “”So what should the American response be? “Say no to drugs,” Minn said. “The marijuana consumption in this country is embarrassing.” Consumers should recognize their habits aren’t the benign lark our culture pretends; buying drugs that finance the cartels has bloody consequences. And yet Minn is no advocate for legalization. He sees it as politically unfeasible and impractical.””

    Legalize marijuana in Grand Rapids? It’s the goal of DecriminalizeGR

    “”GRAND RAPIDS – A local group wants to decriminalize the use and possession of marijuana in the city through a ballot initiative.”” ‘snipped’

    Comments are open at both.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      Incredible. You know that Dr. Abrams is Professor of Clinical Medicine at the University of California San Francisco and Chief of Hematology/Oncology at San Francisco General Hospital. Somehow I think that the person that decided to kick her out just might hear about it.

      But I’m really glad I Googled that. It seems that UCSF has proven that not getting laid triggers problem drinking. Well, at least in house flies. I didn’t even know that flies use drinking alcohol.

      (Is this the first time we’ve exceeded 100 posts in a single thread?)

      • darkcycle says:

        No, we topped it before, I think, two years ago when Pete did a similar trip. Jeez…have we been hanging out on this couch for THAT LONG? My how time flies when you’re in good company!
        (or, time’s fun when you’re having flies…or, time flies like and arrow, fruit flies like bananas. As long as it’s flies we’re talking about!)

  35. Duncan20903 says:


    Denver Marijuana Law Vote: Amendment 64 Wins Majority Support In Republican Assembly
    Posted: 03/15/2012

    Fifty-six percent of the delegates at the Denver County Republican Assembly voted in support of a resolution to regulate marijuana like alcohol in the Centennial State. While the initiative, known as Amendment 64, did not receive the two-thirds majority required to adopt it as a plank in the party’s platform, advocates are hailing the vote as significant.

  36. 1:48 MinuteMark says:

    It hasn’t been easy listening to all that scrambled nonsense coming from the Prohibitionists. I wonder if they did all that damage with alcohol, or could they possibly have been born that way?

    Good night again!

    • Duncan20903 says:


      Born that way I say. I recently posted about Nick Diaz and his urinary metabolites controversy. Kneejerk comments calling him a “loser pothead.” He’s 26 and 8 and I’d like to see the clowns calling him a loser win even a single fight at his level of competition. Yes it’s beyond me why they do that or why anyone would want to watch but that doesn’t mean I don’t recognize the level of discipline required to get to Mr. Diaz’ level of accomplishment.

      Never let the facts get in the way…

  37. Ichi-maru-kyū says:


  38. claygooding says:

    The Feds are threatening more disp in CO,,,,

    Feds to tell more medical marijuana dispensaries to close

    “”DENVER – The United States Attorney’s office plans to demand a shutdown of more medical marijuana dispensaries operating within 1,000 feet of a school, 9Wants to Know has learned.

    U.S. Attorney John Walsh won’t say how many dispensaries will receive letters or how it is choosing which dispensaries to target.”” ‘snipped’

    We need all advocates to attend all political activities(within their reach) the next 6 months and get vocal about mmj,,with 80% of America supporting mmj legalization it really doesn’t matter what the politicians and bureaucrats “believe” about marijuana and medicine,,it needs to happen!

  39. Peter says:

    This is just using red tape to harass. What’s the significance of 1000 feet? Why can a liquor store or rite aid be right next door to a school but not a well run cannabis dispensary?
    Are they trying to put fear into peoples minds of drug fiends standing in the doorway enticing kids to smoke pot? One more example of the “what about the children” defense.

    • Duncan20903 says:


      Even more ludicrous, there are several Colorado jurisdictions which require a 1000 foot buffer zone for their dispensaries and have issued licenses to dispensaries in compliance which the Feds are trying to close down. The problem is the locals measure how far you have to go to get the dispensary if you’re a human being but the Feds use the distance for a bird.

    • darkcycle says:

      When you look at an urban map with schools and bus stops (Yes, they count bus stops), and day cares (and in some municipalities medical clinics that serve children- that means nearly all of ’em) you discover what they are doing. There is virtually no area any where near where people live that is left. If there ARE any areas not covered by that zoning trick, they are usually in industrial areas, difficult to access and sometimes dangerous. It is generally an attempt to effectively ban them by zoning them out of existence.

    • Francis says:

      1000 feet is the distance at which the odor of a mature cannabis plant is significantly carcinogenic. Of course, the precise figure depends on the prevailing winds in your area and to be TRULY safe I recommend at least a half-mile separation.

  40. David Marsh says:

    I am pleased to see Boulder District Attorney, Mr. Garnett, standing up for Colorado law. While Gonzalez v Oregon set a precedent for states determination of “medical use” the state must assert that authority. We will see if the U.S. Attorney, Mr. Walsh, follows precedent and backs down after official notification, or if Mr. Garnet must waste both federal and state resources in a court process to require the Federal Government to follow the law. A court test may be the only way to get the Feds to respect state medical MJ law and to require them to accurately apply the eight part test for MJ classification in the CSA.

    • darkcycle says:

      Yes, this is potentially much bigger, but I don’t expect the Boulder Attorney to press the issue. I expect the usual kabuki dance that will carefully avoid any court’s involvement.

  41. darkcycle says:

    Hey guys (and girls), Just got this via Facebook. It seems Patricia Smith (in prison for MMJ) is having a bad time (anybody surprised? at the hands of prison torturers?), If you’ve got a stamp and a few minutes, this really will help. I’ll give you Danny Danko’s post, verbatim:
    “Just got a heartbreaking letter from Patricia Smith in a New Hampshire State Prison for growing medical marijuana. A Registered Nurse for 30 years, now serving 2-4 years at age 58 for pot. Please send her a letter of encouragement and solidarity today. Patricia Smith, Inmate #90724, NHSP/W 317 Mast Rd, Goffstown, NH 03045”
    If you got a few minutes….

  42. primus says:

    Every time I come to this site, the CBN proselytizers have ads up. I click on these ads, then return to this site, over and over and over. My objective is to direct money to this site, and to cost the proselytizers as much money as possible. I suggest everyone do the same. Every click makes a little money for Pete.

    • Peter says:

      CBN probably have a cookie installed on your computer…I never get them, instead when i logged on to DWR today I got 2 substance abuse facilities, 1 mmj service, 1 retirement community (ha!) and something called “vaporizer blowout…”

    • darkcycle says:

      Guys, those are Google ads, and they are geared to your individual surfing habits. No. Pete doesn’t make money from those clickthroughs, but they do keep count on the number of clickthroughs originating from this site. But I believe those are for statistical purposes.
      Primus…if you really want to help Pete keep this site running you can give to the Prohibition Isn’t Free Foundation, the link is on the left hand side of the page. Also, if you buy durgwarrant merchandise (may I recommend the cozy pullover hoodie? I’m wearing mine right now…or the 4:20 clock, which tells me it’s time for another toke), a percentage goes to Pete. Basically you’re just ensuring that you continue to see those ads. I get a variety, from addiction treatment mongers to weapons training. Now. Let’s stopand think about that for a second, shall we? These ads are tailored for ME? A strictly anti-violence, liberal drug law reform advocate, who fully believes that “addiction treatment” is a sham. Boy have they got my “Mirror-Mirror” self pegged. (The actual episode is not available, but someone put together this wonderfully geeky montage to music.)

      • Duncan20903 says:


        The software must be pretty advanced. It seems they can tell that I’m a total cheapskate and don’t even bother putting up ads. I don’t know whether to be pleased or annoyed.

        Pete could easily generate a bit of revenue by becoming and affiliate of an ‘intended for tobacco use only’ utensil retailer. It doesn’t look like it takes a lot of effort or have any cost except giving permission to put up a banner ad.

  43. allan says:

    look at this couch… tsk, tsk, tsk

    • darkcycle says:

      Those aren’t my underwear…I don’t know where they came from.

      • MersennePrime says:

        These are the times now people. Uh … OK?

        These are the times we will try to remember. Were you there? What did you do?

        Tapping the stash tin on each adverb, he then says: I hope that some of you will at least remember that it wasn’t me who ate all the Cheetos.

        So what do you say?

        Wild roars do not answer his next question: We gonna clean this place up?

  44. PerfectlyNormalBehavior says:

    He was polishing his knob underneath the freeway
    As the evening sky grew dark
    Took another hit of meth in Whackjob City
    And headed through Balboa Park
    He felt the need to get a grip on himself
    To choke his chicken on the street
    To rub one out in public
    And show the invisible kids his meat

    • darkcycle says:

      Oh dear…there appears to be video…

    • Duncan20903 says:

      You can’t fool me. Everyone knows that meth heads can’t get it up.

      • darkcycle says:

        Video’s too grainy to tell…

      • PerfectlyNormalBehavior says:

        You’re right Duncan!

        Here’s the more sensible version:

        The psycho pervert was polishing his knob underneath the freeway
        As the morning sky grew dark
        Took another hit of Jimson Weed in Whackjob City
        And headed through Balboa Park
        He felt the need to get a grip on himself
        To choke his chicken on the street
        To rub one out in public
        And show the invisible kids his meat

  45. Duncan20903 says:

    It appears that the fellow from Utah who made the SWAT team understand the true nature of their work a few weeks ago is one of those whackos that thinks the 16th Amendment does not compel him to pay any income tax:

    …and that he also believes that the U.S. Constitution does not provide the federal government the right to collect taxes.”

    Stewart’s girlfriend said he hadn’t paid state or federal income taxes since 2005, during which time he worked as a security guard for the IRS’ Ogden office. If authorities ever forced Stewart to pay his taxes, “he knew how to ‘get into’ the IRS, and that once inside, he would ‘kill IRS employees,'” the girlfriend told investigators. A map of the IRS building was found in Stewart’s home with highlighted routes of entrances and exits.

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