Open Thread

bullet image The day Westminster gave up on science by Ian Dunt

Last week’s police reform and social responsibility bill contains a clause scrapping the requirement for the home secretary to appoint at least six scientists to the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD). So that’s that then. They’ve admitted it. The drugs war has nothing to do with reality. It is now to be based entirely on fairy tales.

Of course, it’s always been based on fairy tales. It’s just that the UK is ready to admit it. The U.S. still pretends that there’s some science involved in their policies, but that’s never really been the case, either.

bullet image After the symposium: Keeping the momentum, finding the money

“A number of people expressed concern about what the cost may be to the county,” said Mendocino County Board Chairwoman Carre Brown, also 1st District supervisor. “We have no money to put into this.”

Nor does cash-strapped Mendocino County seem to be alone in its inability to contribute much to the estimated $1.5 million price tag of a combined law enforcement effort to reclaim the Mendocino National Forest for hikers and outdoors enthusiasts, according to Brown.

That’s an estimate offered at the symposium of what it would cost to launch a large, six-county law enforcement operation next year, according to Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman.

Must be tough. Figuring out the huge cost of getting marijuana grows out of the national forest… Oh wait. Wasn’t there a Proposition recently that would have done that automatically and raised tax money to boot? Gee, I wonder what happened with that? They don’t even mention it.

bullet image Telling the truth about pot by Justin Kander at Diamondback Online.

Not all college newspaper contributors are clueless about the truth. Thank goodness for SSDP.

bullet image WikiLeaks

Gutierrez went on to say, however, that he now realizes there is not even time for the institution building to take hold in the remaining years of the Calderon administration. “We have 18 months,” he said, “and if we do not produce a tangible success that is recognizable to the Mexican people, it will be difficult to sustain the confrontation into the next administration.”

He lamented the pervasive, debilitating fear that is so much a part of contemporary Mexican society, where even people in the Yucatan, with “European levels of security” are afraid because of the instability in a few distant cities.

In the U.S., they want us to be unreasonably fearful in order to increase authoritarian government power. In Mexico, they want the people to feel unreasonably safe in order to… what?

bullet image Glamor Model Charged With Meth: It Was Fake Snow (Toke of the Town)

A New Zealand glamor model who was charged with possessing half a million dollars’ worth of methamphetamine said test results show the substance was harmless fake snow.

Bought at a $2 store.

Hey, if it’s white and powdery, it must be worth a half million.

bullet image My Medicine – The Book. Irvin Rosenfeld has a book out.

bullet image AP’s Excellent Drug War Coverage: Cartel Arrests Don’t Stop the Drug Trade — But They Do Increase Violence

The AP points out that their story confirms what critics of drug war have said for years: The government is quick to boast about large arrests and seizures, but its efforts result in little, in any, slowdown in the drug trade.

And not only has it failed to interrupt the drug trade – it has made it much more violent. While Mexico’s and the United States’ “surge” in fighting the cartels over the last four years has not impacted drug availability or slowed down the trade, it has led to close to 30,000 prohibition related deaths in Mexico. It’s not the marijuana or coca plants themselves or the use of these drugs that causes this bloodbath. The brutality is a byproduct of drug prohibition, which makes drugs as valuable as gold and creates a profit motive that people are willing to kill for.

In a sane world, people would be outraged by this.

Vast expenditures resulting in no beneficial results, but causing tens of thousands of deaths. Hmmm… better invest some more money in that enterprise.

This is an open thread.

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17 Responses to Open Thread

  1. Bruce says:

    Time out continues. Everybody loses, from coffee shop to big oil. Keep gnawing your leg off, BBM’s, Big Brother Morons.

  2. Scott says:

    “Vast expenditures resulting in no beneficial results, but causing tens of thousands of deaths.”

    The mainstream media never makes enough noise about the negative impact of the war on some drugs, and most people do not directly feel that impact enough to help us out.

    Fox News never puts the likes of Sean “I support our nation’s drug laws” Hannity on the hot seat for his hypocritical support of a policy found constitutional solely by way of the ridiculous and outrageous liberal/progressive Supreme Court “interpretation” of the Commerce Clause.

    The horrifying result from the fact that inconclusive science (at best) is used to oppose liberty which is self-evidently unalienable, clearly taking a “Creator” given right and putting it firmly in the hands of human beings who have no authority to define liberty in the U.S., is never reported.

    If we cannot get the mainstream media to report the whole truth (i.e. do their job), then we will find it nearly impossible to make the strides we need to promptly crush our obviously unethical opponents.

  3. Duncan20903 says:

    Gov. Gary Johnson: I Smoked Marijuana from 2005 to 2008

    “Gary Johnson, the former New Mexico governor and a likely 2012 Republican presidential candidate, hasn’t been shy about his support for marijuana legalization or his personal use of the drug during his younger days. “I never exhaled,” he joked in a recent interview with The New Republic. But in an interview with THE WEEKLY STANDARD, Johnson admitted publicly for the first time that he smoked marijuana more recently—from 2005 to 2008—for medicinal purposes, he says.”

    Well I have no doubt who gets my vote for POTUS 2012.

  4. Servetus says:

    With the repudiation of science, the decline and fall of the British Empire is complete. There is no turning back. Anti-intellectualism in any context is a clear sign of defeat and failure for a nation’s people and its government.

    The Spanish Empire underwent this same kind of collapse, although Spain fought a heresy war rather than a drug war. Still, ‘heresy’ comes from the Greek word heireisthai which means to choose; in this case to choose wrongly according to the guru in charge. In the 21st century, one can be a drug heretic if one chooses the ‘wrong’ means of chemical entertainment.

    Spain went so far in its heresy war as to prohibit possession of certain heretical books. Naturally, a profitable business arose involving the smuggling of forbidden books across the Pyrenees using pack mules (real ones). Spain even prohibited Spaniards from attending foreign universities, lest they be contaminated with heretical ideas.

    The result these policies had on Spain can be illustrated by a single example. In 1705, the Englishman Edmond Halley determined the periodicity of the comet that bears his name. At the same time, the Spanish were quaking in fear believing the comet in the heavens portended some kind of mortal doom.

    Such is the fate of all nations that become hysterical over controlling the conscience, belief systems, and drug habits of an open-minded people.

  5. Duncan20903 says:

    Well, it’s Pearl Harbor day and now 69 years since Japan declared war on the US, as well as a laundry list of other countries.

    Before 9/11 I had no clue what the Americans who were alive then felt about that act of war. I think it may have actually been worse for us. Some of us actually got to watch it happen live on TV. Well at least the second tower falling. The rest got to watch the reruns over and over and over and over for the next few weeks.

    My old man did what a lot of other 20 year old young men did, went down and signed up for the Navy. He served his tours in the Pacific theater shooting down dozens of Japanese fighter planes, and even sinking a couple of subs.

    It took him and his peers 3 years and 9 months to dispatch the “Axis of Evil”.

    In 9 months it will be 10 years of the war on terror, with no end in sight.

    The war on some drugs has been waged for so long that mjemories have faded and we actually argue about how friggin’ long it’s been since it started.

    Was it 1970 when Mr. Nixon gave it the name ‘war on (some) drugs?

    Perhaps 1961 when the UN Single Convention treaty was signed?

    1937 when the Marihuana Tax Act was passed by Congress?

    1913 when California first criminalized cannabis to get rid of the Mexicans?

    How about when the first state law was passed criminalizing opium smoking? I don’t even know that specific year though I seem to recall that was also in California and in the 19th century.

    What’s my point? Really, I don’t have one. I’m just sayin’.

  6. Duncan20903 says:

    Well I’m certainly glad that the police were there to stop this madman. god forbid we should let people like this get away with this, we won’t even be ale to swing a dead cat without being covered by TP! Thank god that the legislature had the foresight to pass a law against such criminal mischief. Don’t forget to thank the police who stood ready to deal with the miscreant.

    “WESTWOOD, N.J. (AP) – A North Jersey pilot has to say he’s sorry for the T-P stunt. Warren Saunders has pleaded guilty to tossing rolls of toilet paper from a small plane. In a deal with prosecutors, Saunders has been placed on probation. The Record of Woodland Park reports he also will have to write a letter of apology. Saunders said the T-P toss was a test run for streamer drop he planned to do at a high school football game. People who saw the falling T-P called the cops, prompting a large police response.

    For a long time I’ve thought the worst thing that could land one in prison would be a charge of ‘criminal mischief’. Such a charge would make one the laughing stock of any cell block in any prison, public or private.

    current prisoner: “Well hello there sailor. What are you in for?”

    new prisoner: “I got convicted of criminal mischief in the 1st degree”

    current prisoner “bwahhahahahahahahahahaha, criminal mischief? Stop it, you’re killing me!”

    What is this the Lil Rascals court of law?

  7. Duncan20903 says:

    There will be no miracles on 34th street this year.

    ‘Naughty’ joke gets Santa Claus fired from Macy’s

    Hey, Santa, leave them kids alone.

  8. DdC says:

    Julian Assange in jail on rape charge | The Australian
    The 39-year-old Australian was refused bail after a British judge ruled that there was a danger he might flee the country because the judge felt he had weak links to the UK and access to large amounts of money and support through his activity with the whistleblowing website

    “Godfather of Grass” John Robert Boone Eludes Capture For More Than Two Years
    Followers and fans of John Robert Boone refer to the prolific marijuana grower as the “Godfather of Grass” and the “King of Pot”; authorities who have been searching for the Kentucky farmer to no avail say it’s “like trying to catch a ghost.”

    Presidential hopeful Gary Johnson: Legalize marijuana
    Dec 2 2010
    “The issue of marijuana legalization is obviously an attention-getter,” Johnson said. “And you can’t shy away from it. I have to defend it. I have to defend the position.”

    Gary Johnson 2012
    Marijuana should be regulated and taxed by the federal government (just like tobacco is currently), which would lead to a lower price for the product and eliminate the criminal element from its distribution, much like the repeal of the prohibition of alcohol many decades back.

  9. DdC says:

    The House Made of Hemp
    America’s first house made primarily of hemp has been built. Using a product known as Hemcrete – a mix of industrial hemp, lime and water – a team of 40 volunteers, sub-contractors and designers have recently completed construction of a hemp house located in Ashville, North Carolina (NC).

    Temptâ„¢ Hempmilk – Original
    Hempmilk is a delicious non-dairy beverage made from hemp seeds – one of nature’s most perfect, planet-friendly foods. Perfect for cereal or coffee, cooking and baking, or to put the ‘smooth’ in your favorite fruit smoothie.

    Milk: Healthy and nutritious drink, or fattening, contaminant-filled menace?
    You might expect an organization called the Dairy Education Board to promote milk as a good thing. But instead, this advocacy group claims that “Milk is a deadly poison.” Oops. And as Americans have grown more wary of saturated fat, and more concerned about hormones and other substances fed to—and injected into—dairy cows, milk consumption has fallen dramatically. In the post-war days of 1945, the average American was consuming 45 gallons of milk a year. By 2001, per capita consumption was down to just 23 gallons.


  10. denmark says:

    The entire article is at the NORML Blog site.

    CNBC Documentary Revisits Marijuana Prohibition: ‘Marijuana USA’
    Tue, 07 Dec 2010 By: Allen St. Pierre

    With the unmistakable promotional jingle from the 1960s hit TV show ‘Green Acres‘ and on the heels of its most lucrative documentary ‘Marijuana, Inc.’, CNBC revisits the largely untaxed and unregulated multi-billion dollar industry created by the federal government’s failed 74-year-old Cannabis Prohibition on Wednesday, December 8 at 9 PM (eastern/pacific).

    In the wake of a Time Magazine cover piece ‘Amerijuana’ two weeks ago, CNBC, the nation’s number one business channel on television, is taking a second bite at Cannabis Prohibition with ‘Marijuana USA’.

    And I don’t have cable or satellite t.v. yet.

  11. Duncan20903 says:

    That guy Hank Kimball alwayts had the best pot. Poor Oliver, surrounded by all those stoned people and clueless about it.

    At 1:37 in this clip we find that Mr. Kimball and Arnold have been busted:

    Lisa and Eb are in jail for trying to crash a White House luncheon.

  12. DdC says:

    R.I.P. John Lennon (The 30th anniversary) By Glenn Gamboa
    It was 30 years ago today that John Lennon was shot and killed outside his home at the Dakota on the Upper West Side. Fans will gather all day at nearby Strawberry Fields as they have for years, paying tribute to the legend and his music. continued…

    While Nixon Campaigned, FBI Watched John Lennon
    In December 1971, John Lennon sang at an Ann Arbor, Mich., concert calling for the release of a man who had been given 10 years in prison for possessing two marijuana cigarettes. The song he wrote for the occasion, “John Sinclair,” was remarkably effective. Within days, the Michigan Supreme Court ordered Mr. Sinclair released.

    Summer of Love: 40 Years Later

    Thank God for Hippies

    It ain’t fair, John Sinclair, In the stir for breathing air, Won’t you care for John Sinclair?, In the stir for breathing air, Let him be, set him free, Let him be like you and me

    They gave him ten for two, What else can the judges do? Gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta set him free

    If he’d been a soldier man, Shooting gooks in Vietnam, If he was the CIA, Selling dope and making hay, He’d be free, they’d let him be, Breathing air, like you and me

    They gave him ten for two, What else can the judges do? Gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta,, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta,, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta set him free

    They gave him ten for two, They got Ali Otis too. Gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta set him free

    Was he jailed for what he done? Or representing everyone, Free John now, if we can, From the clutches of the man, Let him be, lift the lid, Bring him to his wife and kids

    They gave him ten for two, What else can the bastards do? Gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta, gotta set him free
    ~ John Sinclair by John Lennon

  13. DdC says:

    Bob Beckel Wants Julian Assange Assassinated!

    GOPerverts @ Fox Have a Plan
    Tax evasion for the rich and censor the internet.
    Then murder the group exposing the corruption.
    Oh ya thats good old fashioned fascism for ya!
    Boosheney War Crimes Tribunal on its way…

    4chan rushes to WikiLeaks’ defense, forces Swiss banking site offline

    They can’t even take down the site, ever!

    1005 mirrors and growing daily…

    from Anonymous:

    Hello World. We are Anonymous. What you do or do not know about us is irrelevant. We have decided to write to you, the media, and all citizens of the free world to inform you of our intentions, potential targets, and our ongoing peaceful campaign for Freedom of Expression.

    Anonymous is peacefully campaigning for Freedom of Expression everywhere, in all forms, for all platforms. The recent news of our efforts have been, at best, misinformed. We are not a terrorist organization or a group of “hackers” as governments, demagogues, and the media would have you believe. We are a diverse group that touches every aspect of philosophy, religion, and politics ever conceived by man. At this time, Anonymous, as a distributed consciousness, is focused on protesting peacefully for Freedom of Expression on the Internet. We ask the world to support us, not for our sake, but for your own. When governments control information they control you. We will resist until our dying breath. Pay attention citizens and governments of the world.

    History is full of examples that show that governments can change when people stand united. As an example in recent history: During the Civil Rights Movement in the United States in the 1960s access to many businesses were blocked as a peaceful protest against segregation. In their efforts, the protesters of the time managed to make drastic changes to police and governments by refusing to be silenced.

    In the spirit and memory of that movement and many others we will refuse to be silenced. We will protest!

    It is here that we proclaim: Any individual, organization, corporation, and/or government entity which supports Freedom of Speech and a Free Internet is an ally of Anonymous. If you work to suppress Freedom of Expression and a Free Internet your efforts will be halted. Where others have made this promise and failed, we make this promise and aim to keep it for everyone. We would like to ask that you as a citizen, organization, media entity, or government do the same by joining us.

    WikiLeaks thread

  14. DdC says:

    Abandoning “Net Neutrality,” FCC Chair Backs Two-Tiered Internet Fees
    The Federal Communications Commission is being accused of abandoning “net neutrality” rules that would ensure a free and open internet. On Wednesday, FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski unveiled proposals that would allow internet service providers to charge higher fees for faster access to online content. We speak to Josh Silver, co-founder of the media reform group Free Press. [includes rush transcript]

    Verizon & Google Enter Reported Deal for Tiered Internet Use, Is Net Neutrality in Jeopardy?

    Appeals Court Rules FCC Lacks Authority to Enforce Net Neutrality

    A Look at the Future of TV: Media Consolidation Opponent Byron Dorgan to Retire, Comcast Takeover of NBC Under Review

  15. DdC says:

    Senate Quietly Passes Bill S-10 and Mandatory Minimums For Marijuana
    CANNABIS CULTURE – The Senate of Canada has passed Bill S-10, which includes mandatory minimum sentences for marijuana offences. No this is not a drill. The bill will now move to the House of Commons for voting before it can become law.

    Stop Bill S-10 (Madatory Minimum Sentences)

    US Military Presence in Costa Rica Rejected
    Costa Rican opposition parties expressed their rejection to the entry of more soldiers, ships and helicopters from the US to Costa Rica, on a pretext to fight drug trafficking.

    Will The DEA Shut Down Every Major Music Festival in the Country?
    Every major music festival in the country could be shut down by law enforcement whose motive is not to make Americans safer through the protection of their rights, but the profit that police can make by taking property from citizens.

  16. DdC says:

    They lie cheat and murder us in our beds to stop cannabis from entering our homes legitimately. Then when the citizens rise up and overturn their traitorous sabotage with initiatives. They either continue the same stalling lying and cheating. Total disregard for the will of the voters. Stealing taxes to boot. Or they want it for themserlves. To tweak to their advantage. Not to make it easier for the patient. They cage us then tax us for the experience. Fatheads. Its a plant, let it grow. Plant hemp. Its no god damn business of any politician. Any capital venture is separate from homegrown personal stash and vendors. At any rate these state weasels are out of control. Acting as arogant and ignorant as the DC pirates of Gloom and DEAth.

    New Mexico OKs Fees for Medical Marijuana Program By Tim Korte
    CN Source: N.M. Business Week December 17, 2010

    The state Department of Health announced several changes to New Mexico’s medical marijuana program Friday, including fees to finance the effort despite concerns that smaller producers could be forced out of business. The new annual fees will be based on how long a grower has operated, ranging from $5,000 for producers licensed for less than a year up to $30,000 for those licensed for more than three years. Until now, other agency programs had financed medical marijuana.

    Stringent Medical Marijuana Rules Proposed in AZ By Amanda Lee Myers
    CN Source: Washington Post December 17, 2010

    Preliminary rules for would-be users and prescribers of medical marijuana in Arizona are so stringent that no more than 20,000 people likely will qualify for the drug – a sharp decrease from earlier estimate of 100,000 in the first year alone, a regulator said Friday. The revised estimate was made after Arizona Department of Health Services Director Will Humble looked at rules and numbers of users in 14 other states that allow medical marijuana.

    Regulators Publish Tough Rules for MMJ Sellers By Kristen Wyatt
    CN Source: Denver Associated Press December 17, 2010

    Marijuana sellers in Colorado could have to wear photo badges, and patients could have new limits on changing their primary dispensaries if tough, new rules are adopted next year. The changes were contained in a 99-page list of draft rules posted online Thursday by Colorado regulators crafting the nation’s most extensive rules for commercial marijuana sales. The state revenue department is expected to adopt the new rules early next year and does not need approval by lawmakers.

    MMJ : Maine Learns Lessons from Montana By Meg Haskell
    CN Source: Maine Bangor Daily News December 17, 2010

    With the strong support of voters in November 2009, Maine became one of just a handful of states that not only allow the cultivation and possession of marijuana for personal medical use but also make marijuana available in retail settings. Nonprofit storefront dispensaries are preparing to open in eight Maine communities within the next few months, bringing medical grade marijuana to qualified patients throughout the state.

    As soon as your born they make you feel small, By giving you no time instead of it all, Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all, They hurt you at home and they hit you at school, They hate you if you’re clever and they despise a fool, Till you’re so fucking crazy you can’t follow their rules, When they’ve tortured and scared you for twenty odd years, Then they expect you to pick a career, When you can’t really function you’re so full of fear, Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV, And you think you’re so clever and classless and free, But you’re still fucking peasents as far as I can see, There’s room at the top they are telling you still, But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, If you want to be like the folks on the hill, A working class hero is something to be. If you want to be a hero well just follow me.
    ~ John Lennon

  17. Awesome website you have here but I was curious if you knew of any message boards that cover the same topics talked about in this article? I’d really love to be a part of community where I can get comments from other experienced individuals that share the same interest. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. Kudos!

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