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Thought for Charlie

It’s baffling to me that we have such insane restrictions on the use of drugs, and yet we let absolutely anybody use religion.

Sure, the vast majority of people who use religion do so responsibly, and in a way that is fulfilling for themselves, but the same is true of those who use drugs.

So why is it that those who are willing to lock up all drug users because of the apparent destructive impulses of a tiny minority, are not calling for the same thing for religion users?

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76 comments to Thought for Charlie

  • Matthew Meyer

    Part of the answer has to do with the West’s division of matter and spirit, as developed in Christianity: simply put, religion is not a substance.

    Of course we criminalize behavior, too. But the view that drugs are substances that hijack God’s morality, giving a simulacrum of the pleasure that’s supposed to come from proper conduct, makes their prohibition seem pretty logical to a lot of people.

    If fewer folks are willing to think of cannabis this way anymore, just wait till drug law reform gets past cannabis to other S1 travesties, like psilocybin…not to mention the “demon drugs,” like meth, cocaine, and heroin (two of them S2!), that truly epitomize this view.

  • darkcycle

    Jesuis Charlie…

  • Frank W.

    All “modern” religions are against drugs, apparently as part of their “policy”. The human race is “fucked”.

    • Matthew Meyer

      The UDV is one of a number of Brazilian religious practices in which ayahuasca is drunk.

      In the first decade of this century, the UDV was involved in a long battle with the feds over the use of ayahuasca in the US, centered on the fact that it contains DMT, a Schedule I substance.

      The issue was subjected to “strict scrutiny” by the courts because it involved religious freedom. The feds kept chanting the mantra “DMT is S1; S1 is very bad and dangerous, therefore UDV ayahuasca use is dangerous.”

      The federal judge on the case fairly laughed this argument out of the courtroom. When it came to the threshold the government had to meet–showing that ayahuasca, *as used in the UDV*, was dangerous, and could not be accommodated under a religious exception–the feds really had nothing, and lost.

      For some people, the combination of modernity and pre-modernity in these kinds of groups approximates the kind of “archaic revival” that Terence McKenna longed for. And folks who haven’t heard of this case may be surprised to learn that federal drug law suffered such a serious setback so recently.

    • Duncan20903

      .
      .

      Frank, when did the Rastafarians quit using cannabis as a sacrament?

      To the best of my knowledge there are only a couple of “major” religions that have a problem with drinking alcohol or tobacco.

      • Frank W.

        I should have said “corporate” religions, maybe. The ones with big buildings that want your money, the Establishment, dig?

    • Windy

      The reason for religion being against drug use is because they do not want their flocks to think about or rely on anything except what the church leaders tell them “God” wants.

  • Servetus

    Karl Marx wrote that religion is the opium of the masses. That would make selling opium and other drugs competitive with those selling religion. Eliminating religious competitors has a lengthy religious tradition, right along with overpopulating the earth.

    I would burn a spliff before I would ever burn a Catholic prelate (at the stake). That’s far more courtesy than certain right wing authoritarians would extend to me for consuming cannabis or other illicit drugs, or for not believing in their religion, be they Christian, Muslim, or Jew. Eliminating religious competitors has never succeeded. The inquisitions were never able to rid society of all its Protestants or Huguenots, Muslims, Jews, drug consumers, intellectuals, or gays; even though the Church ordered the state to execute thousands of such people.

    Religion is such an ancient mishmash it can used to justify anything. Hitler fondly quoted the Bible to justify his pogrom against Jews. Protestants used the Biblical mandate from Exodus 22:18, which says “Thou shalt not suffer a witch (makesephah) to live”, to justify executing witches, even though scholars aren’t certain the Hebrew word makesaphah actually meant “sorcerer” or “witch”. Alleged sorcerers of the period used herbs and drugs to heal, which was heresy to the medieval Christians. Curing an illness with a material substance was seen as an affront to God’s intent to use illness to punish sinners.

    Some memes just won’t go away without a tiny bit of uncertainty being injected into the whole process. The threat of uncertainty to Islam is what killed Charlie Hebdo. And like the certainty accorded to a specific religion, the absolute certainty that all illicit drugs are too dangerous to ingest is a conjecture that comes at too high a social cost.

  • Tony Aroma

    Religion is protected by the Constitution. As is the right to bear arms, which would be a similar analogy to the one being made here.

  • Mr_Alex

    I saw this on FaceBook, Marijuana Makes You Violent is trying to do a hatchet desperate job of trying to associate cannabis with the shooting, rest assured I bet in the coming days he will get hate mail from people who won’t stand him:

    https://www.facebook.com/MMYVofficial/posts/867817349905770

  • n.t. greene

    They say “religion is the opiate of the masses” — that’s interesting.

    You have to have a goddamn prescription to get opiates in this day and age, unless you’re getting them illegally.

    There could be something to this line of reasoning…

    • n.t. greene

      I didn’t even see your post, Servetus.

      I was at work and at the moment I thought I was being witty.

  • claygooding

    Founders Fund, the investment firm created by Peter Thiel, has joined a $75 million funding round for Privateer Holdings. Its subsidiary, Marley Natural, sells marijuana.-

    http://tinyurl.com/mwn3asg

    The guy running Privateer wants to end the “stoner culture” surrounding marijuana,,,they are investing in the “”Marley”” brand name and want to sweep us into the closet,,,oxy moron just doesn’t cover it.
    Now we can buy some Republicans.

    • Freeman

      Want a good laugh? Check out Kleiman’s whine on the subject. Poor guy — CBS News allowed him to embarrass himself with the preposterous hypothesis that there’ll be no money to be made in a legal pot market, but declined to publish his concern-trolling “about whether the commercial legalization of cannabis is the best available policy”.

      To paraphrase a thought I’ve seen here and there around these parts: “Legal liquor is going to be dirt cheap, and I think a lot of people are going to lose their shirts trying to sell it.” — Mark Kleiman’s grandfather.

      • Duncan20903

        .
        .

        Is it really so difficult to give a heads up when you post a link to that website? Even if it is for only a few ticks and a tock I have to take a shower afterword because it makes me feel so dirty. The shower never helps but it keeps me in hope.

        [Poe’s law invoked!]

      • Ooh La La!

        So the guy with his head on upside down, and whose ill advice crippled Washington’s legal market, wants to scare off investors?

      • Matthew Meyer

        MARK was just mad ’cause the CBS article consistently spelled his last name “Klieman”–Couch Influence, perhaps?

        • Freeman

          Heh, I didn’t notice that on my first read. That’s funny!

          Just saw the piece on CBS News on the TV this morning (didn’t notice the spelling in the closed captions). (k)lieman’s Chicken Little routine seemed a little out of place in a report featuring serious businessmen expressing enthusiasm for the financial prospects for a legal mj market. It came off like they consulted with Looney Tunes to find a suitable voice to provide “balance” to the report. Funny thing is, Sebat would have at least looked the part — (k)lieman looked like the prototypical mad scientist just gotten up from a mid-day nap.

          I just wish he’d quit predicting that the price will plummet, because he’s the same guy who predicted that nobody would be crazy enough to open state-legal mmj shops with the threat of federal prosecution still looming.

      • claygooding

        IF every state legalized tomorrow and there was no “dry” states surrounding a wet state then Klieman would be correct but the federal government doesn’t intend for that to happen and when it does it will be drawn out as long as they can fight it.

        Only when the bulk of the market is produced legally will prices fall very much at all,,it is going to take mass production to bring prices down by farmers happy to sell their flowers for $2 a gram to distributors happy to make a dollar a gram to retail stores happy to make $1 a gram selling it with taxes in the 8>10% sales tax range like other commodities.
        Right now we have growers that want black market profits from growing it,,distributors that want black market profits for packaging and sending it to the stores and stores that want black market profits for selling it while politicians are trying to refill state coffers off marijuana users backs.
        WA state just announced a drop in retail prices,,waiting to see which segment dropped the prices,,my guess is they reduced taxes.
        Once enough legal weed is produced and sitting around not selling prices will start dropping,,,but I don’t see plummeting prices for about a decade,,,depending on how long it takes to get most of the states to end prohibition,,the Federal government won’t.

        • The feds are proposing a 50% tax at the federal level on top of state taxes.

          Marijuana Tax Millions? Hallucinations Up In Smoke, Yet Feds Propose 50% Federal Tax Too
          http://tinyurl.com/nzp9r6q

          This is excessive. The combined taxes state and federal will ensure a thriving back market and continued drug war me thinks.

          Keith Stroub threw medical marijuana under the bus if I am not mistaken http://tinyurl.com/petp4s9. Running out of edit time. Something is wrong with the way this picture is developing.

    • Duncan20903

      .
      .

      Doesn’t anyone else think that poor Bob Marley is turning over in his grave because the Babylonians are using his name to commercialize Jah’s sacrament just for the love of money and no other reason? Don’t forget to consider that this is the guy who volunteered to die from cancer at age 36 rather than violate Rastafarian dogma.

      Remind me to never spend the night in a house owned by any of his relatives who signed off on this deal especially not christmas eve.Without doubt that one will be in the “Marley in Chains” category.

      .
      .

    • Deep Dish

      “As a partnership at Founders Fund we tend to be more libertarian than many other venture capital firms, but this is certainly not a politically motivated investment,” Lewis said. “However, we certainly do believe in the end of prohibition.”

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/08/founders-fund-privateer-marijuana_n_6432706.html

      If it’s not politically motivated, does this imply they’re not going to invest in our campaigns? Ethan Nadelmann has a story in the LA Times in which he says new entrepreneurs have not been stepping up to the plate. I sure hope it’s politically motivated.

      • Duncan20903

        .
        .

        I inferred that they are on the same page with the millions upon millions of people who have been watching this drama unfold and thoroughly enjoyed the fat lady’s singing.

        Anyone with any sense and a working knowledge of the fans of cannabis’ world knew that all we needed was 1 State to re-legalize with at least approaching a reasonable system and it would kill the absolute stupidity of the absolute prohibition of cannabis. Colorado did just that on Election Day 2012. With all due respect to my friends in Washington there was just too much political mischief surrounding the implementation of I-502.

        Don’t think my opinion is all that farfetched. Even Harry J Anslinger knew that prohibition couldn’t survive as long as there was any place in the world that would demonstrate that prohibition not only isn’t needed but actually does not deliver the societal denigration which the prohibitionist parasites and there sycophants like to claim. It was the whole point of pushing the UN Single Convention Treaty of 1961. Directly after that treaty was signed poor Harry J even stated that cannabis would never be legal again. But us being underestimated by the idiot prohibitionists is just par for the course. I’m still predicting that once it’s over we’re not getting any credit for getting it done. The powers that be will claim that credit and even say that prohibition was repealed in spite of us, not because of our efforts. But heck, I’m OK with paying that price as long as it ends.

        I think this spring I’m going to take a road trip to Pennsylvania to enjoy the pleasure of pissing on Harry J’s grave.

        • thelbert

          drink extra fluids for me, Duncan

        • darkcycle

          And eat some Asparagus for me, I want the stink to stay with him.

        • kaptinemo

          Dig ‘im up, open the coffin, then ‘pay your respects’. Then burn the coffin. Ask whoever is doing the next space launch to take the ashes off planet. That sumbitch doesn’t belong with decent people, not even dead ones.

        • Servetus

          Plant a marijuana clone on his grave site.

        • Duncan20903

          .
          .

          As attractive as the idea sounds there’s no way I could crack his coffin. What kind of message would that send to the chillum? It’s not because I’m particularly squeamish about cadavers. He’s been dead long enough that the smell shouldn’t be all that bad and I’ve watched enough TV shows to know how to use Vick’s VapoRub just in case. It’s not the expected that would deter me. Of course when I say “the expected” I mean the expected if he was actually a regulation human being. I just don’t think that is a safe presumption.

          Let me go off on a tangent…has there ever been a movie which focused on the culture of the fans of cannabis in the horror genre? I can just see it unfolding in my brain:

          The Problem with Harry J

          This part of the story is set in the year 2019:
          On the 100th anniversary of the National Prohibition Act of 1919 (informally called the Volstead Act) the lawmakers of America finally come to their senses and vote absolutely unanimously to implement a law which absolutely eliminates the absolute stupidity of the absolute prohibition of cannabis. The makers of Absolut vodka are absolutely appalled. In its absolute wisdom Congress absolutely delays implementation of the law until 4/20/2020 to give the remaining sycophants of absolute prohibition time to get over their repeal induced brain lock.

          Fast forward to 4/19/2020:
          A band of overfed long haired leaping gnomes decide to celebrate Re-legalization Day by traveling to Hollidaysburg PA to piss on the grave of Harry J. Anslinger at 4:20 on 4/20/20. (Who didn’t see that one coming? Hah!)

          Skip ahead to 4/20/2020 When they get to his grave they notice that the gravediggers employed by the cemetery had left a number of shovels and pickaxes unattended by a nearby, freshly dug grave. Then they made the mistake of deciding to skip the pissing in favor of digging up his cadaver to carry down Main Street in the 1st annual Macy’s 420 Parade.

          But when they crack open Harry J’s coffin, instead of bones they realize too late the folly of their decision when they grasp the reality that they’ve been victimized by the law of unforeseen consequences. To their utter horror they have unleashed a demonic, brain eating undead Harry J Anslinger and good gravy, that ghoul was pissed off. Talk about Pandora’s Box, sheesh! Did you know that the cult classic “The Night of the Living Dead” was filmed only about 100 miles from Hollidaysburg? Coincidence? I think not!

          So many unanswered questions! Will the leaping gnomes be able to save re-legalization from being repealed by the undead Anslingers? How will they defeat the undead Anslingers? Will our heroes be able to avoid being assimilated into the ranks of immortal undead prohibitionists? Will Calvina Fay finally meet the undead ghoul that she deserves and find true love? Well you’re just going to have to watch the movie to find out!

          (None of the overfed long haired leaping gnomes could believe that they were the star in a Hollywood movie.)

        • kaptinemo

          When Establishment information gatekeepers could throttle data streams, they acted as a crypto-fascist ‘Ministry of Truth’, controlling common perceptions of reality.

          But with the Internet, it would take some very obvious meddling to remove the chronological order of published material and how that material may have affected voting habits, leading to favorable votes for reform. Reality has gotten a lot bigger than a TV screen allows for. The Internet is Howard Beale’s revenge on media gatekeepers, the kind that helped bury the 1974 NIDA study that proved cannabis killed cancer cells.

          Future sociologists and historians will have a much easier time finding out how the confluence of forces came together to end prohibition this time. And I have no doubt that those sociologists and historians are already collecting the data as it is happening.

          It will become very obvious who did what and why…both for reform and against it. And those who supported the latter will face unending criticism for it, for the rest of their days because, as we all know, ‘The Internet is forever’

        • primus

          Kap: Seeing as the internet is forever, does that ‘splain why Kev-Kev is still chanting the same mantra? Is it because he is forever branded with a big red P (for Prohibitionist) on the forehead? He will never, ever be able to deny it because his record is forever encapsulated on the ‘net. He is caught in his own net with no way out.

        • kaptinemo

          Primus: The way I see it is just another extension of how technology can be liberating…for those favoring cognitive liberty. For those opposing it (significant look in Kevvie’s direction), this song comes to mind

          I was born in an era of books, and books on the subject of drug law reform were few and far between. Those few voices favoring sanity in our drug laws instead of racial bigotry and prejudice, who bravely spoke out were throttled by informational gatekeepers, who argued that their (artificially maintained) ‘minority reports’ could be dismissed because they were deemed (by the prohibition-supporting Establishment) to be lesser, and thus, unimportant voices.

          Collecting those books in the early days and conversing with the authors, organizing, etc, was very time consuming. As the old saying goes, “A lie will go round the world while truth is pulling its boots on.” The prohibs had all the advantages, communication-wise. And when a stinking lie is wrapped in clean-linen-smelling US government stamp of approval, it gets harder. Sanity was drowned in a taxpayer-funded roar of hate-filled babble.

          The Internet leveled the playing field. Sure, there’s nuts and cranks, galore; I don’t need to watch some comedian on the Tube when the ‘Net supplies them, and with delightfully honest expressions of rank stupidity 24/7. But it has also given those voices for sanity a bullhorn that cannot be drowned out.

          Because of the ‘Net, our opponents must wade into our waters, waters full of the species they fear the most: Bullshittus factcheckius, whose teeth are made from a naturally-occurring alloy comprised of half google and half yahoo, capable of slicing through BS at mouse-click speed. Piranhas aren’t in the same league, not by a light-year. The prohibs don’t stand a chance.

          I recall reading at DEAWatch last decade that some wag there had bemoaned the fact that they had lost the younger intended-marks-to-be for their con-game called prohibition, in large thanks to the Internet.

          But, true to the flawed thinking of such people, his assumption was that if they had been able to propagate their propaganda there first, they would have been able to continue to dominate the conversation.

          Did you get that, folks? It really, truly shows just how out-of-touch the prohibs are that they thought that they could disseminate their BS unchallenged in a medium that thrives on such challenges while, mercilessly, affording liars no cover. As clueless as those dinosaurs were 65 million years ago, and, like those dinosaurs, doomed by something beyond their understanding. Kevvie and Co can expect to be reminded of their self-induced dementia of thinking they had a right to tell other people how to live throughout their lives.

          We’ve truly come a long way. A hard way, and many of us have the scars, physical and otherwise, to prove it. We’ve got ’em cornered, but now is no time to let up, or they’ll escape to bother us again. Let us finish this once and for all; national legalization by 2020!

        • primus

          Kap: all I meant is that Kev-Kev has dug himself into a hole where his only choice is to continue to chant the mantra. If he changes tunes now, nobody will believe him. He is in a trap of his own making. Hoist by his own petard, so to speak. Warms the cockles of my heart, I tell ya.

  • kaptinemo

    ROFLYFAO time. A blast from the past, courtesy of Cheech and Chong’s legendary Big Bambu album:

    All Messed up on The Lord

  • Duncan20903

    .
    .

    Is there anyone here that enjoys denigrating PSAs produced in decades past by the prohibitionist parasites? If so this cartoon is must see:
    http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/4986/984/1600/948318/drugswar.jpg

    Now I’ve got to run. If anyone needs me I’ll be in the kitchen eating fried eggs.

  • DdC

    Bill Maher Blasts Liberal ‘Pussy Nation’
    Too Afraid Of Offending Muslims Over Paris Terror Attack

    Bill Maher on Terrorism and the Charlie Hebdo Attack
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj58TavOIqg#t=13

    Condemning attack is not enough: unless you strongly endorse the right of anyone to make fun of any religion/prophet, You are not a moderate Muslim. JeSuis Charlie.
    Bill Maher

    Woman Sodomized By Cops Boyfriend Smelled Like Weed
    http://po.st/wICGFp

    The Aʂʂhole Police

  • Servetus

    The deceased Paris terrorists are just one type of terrorist; they were lone-wolf types, in a sense. Other Islamic terrorists occupy important government posts, but they don’t get the same attention for their human rights crimes. Government terrorists are frequently neglected when the shooting erupts.

    One such example of a terrorist is Indonesia’s new president, Joko Widodo. President Widodo has decided to speed up Indonesia’s legal process for executing people sentenced to death for drug crimes. Apparently, if graven or critical images of Mohomet can lead to death, then anything can be fatal if it provides a convenient enough scapegoat for some religious fanatic in control of a government.

    The inmates will be taken to the prison at Nusa Kambangan, an island off the coast of Java, where they will be executed by a 10-person firing squad from the Central Java Police’s Mobile Brigade Unit (Brimob). Basically, they are tied to a wooden cross and shot.

    Last week he rejected clemency for Bali 9 inmate Myuran Sukumaran, convicted in 2005 of attempting to smuggle 8.3 kilograms of heroin from Bali to Australia[…]

    There are 64 inmates currently awaiting death in Indonesia for drug offenses. (There are 2 waiting death for terrorism crimes.) Human rights groups say the executions violate the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, ratified by Indonesia in 2005.

    The wooden cross as an execution post is an interesting, symbolic touch. President Joko Widodo – Islamic Terrorist at Large. Boycott Bali.

  • this world could stand to start sharing a whole lot of spliffs…

    • darkcycle

      I used to think it was fanaticism that was the enemy, 1.6 billion islamic people in the world, and the actions of two become the public perception overnight. Fanatics exist in all of the world’s religions. Edward Tiller was a doctor killed by a random Christian freak. That makes us no different from them. But I think now in retrospect I may be wrong. I want to believe there is nothing wrong with faith in god, I REALLY want to. So many good people believe and don’t go off the deep end…but….
      I no longer believe that human beings are capable of moderation while in the throes of religiosity. It’s not the fanatics. It’s religion. Religion in particular as well as in general. Only when you have come to the belief that your faith is the right one, that god himself has anointed yours as the correct faith and all others are blaspheme, do you arrive at the point where you can justify the slaughter of people who think differently.
      That these fanatics believe that god has given them the go-ahead to violate his very first directive says something to me. It says people aren’t well equipped to handle religion, under any circumstance. Sad. But I can’t seem to recall an Atheist (any atheist, anywhere)ever having killed anyone for refusing to refuse to believe in god.
      One can (and people do every day) use god to excuse the most diabolical of actions and policies.

      • Sand Creek and Col Chivington was my key moment for that realization. #CharlieHebdo

      • Duncan20903

        .
        .

        In the last couple of years I’ve started to think that the Jews are an exception to that rule. From time to time I ponder how my life would have been different had I been born into the Jewish faith.

        • darkcycle

          I was raised in the jewish faith. I abandoned that faith in part because of the zionists and the treatment of the Palestinians. Arguably, that is the very genesis of the troubles we are experiencing now.
          I’m sorry, Duncan….don’t be fooled by a few moderates. I am no longer convinced moderation in religion is a human capacity.

        • Duncan20903

          .
          .

          How about them Unitarians?

          But there’s no need for apologies DC.I don’t think that I picked the right words to correctly disambiguate my current train of thought. The phrase “started to think” wasn’t meant to establish that I’ve adopted that as truth, rather it’s the first step on an intellectual journey which may or may not end with adopting that as truth. But using my 20/20 hindsight I think it perfectly reasonable for my post to be read either way.

          But with millennia of history and hundreds of millions, if not billions of adherents don’t you think it unreasonable to expect that there wouldn’t have been any notable dirtballs who self identify as Jews? Maybe I missed a day in History class when they covered the Jewish Crusades? The Jewish witch hunts? I admit that I know almost nothing about the Palestinian controversy. Perhaps that will be the next destination of this particular journey.

          Regardless, my comparison is one religion compared to the rest of the religions. If you stick me in a room of prohibitionists I’ll be that room’s genius without any doubt. But that isn’t saying I am a genius. All that requires is my not being dumb as a bag of rocks.

          I can assure you that I’m not going to convert to Judaism or any other religion which includes a belief in a supreme deity. I’ve done enough research and personal observation to be certain that man created god in his own image, not vice versa. On the other hand I don’t think I’d recommend that anyone invest in discovering that particular truth. Nowadays the thing that most terrifies me about death is that I’ll never know that I’m dead. I think it’s got to be a contributing factor to the persistence of religion in our culture.

          I like to point out to people that in the US there are at least 25 million fans of cannabis, and in any cohort that size you can reasonably expect to find examples of just about every kind of human being you can possibly imagine. The existence of a guy that eats too many edibles and murders his wife doesn’t prove anything except that the man was mentally defective.

        • darkcycle

          Duncan, Unitarians are Christians, or were last time I checked. So the same still applies. You’ve successfully identified the least virulent strain of that particular religion correctly, so your fanatic-o-meter seems in working order. You HAVE missed the boat in terms of the assignation, though old man. We’ve all agreed the majority of any religion aren’t fanatics, they occur on the fringes.
          You can’t cut the fringes off the rug, old man, that’s how they come.

        • darkcycle

          Oops….forgot my winky-face. 😉

      • tensity1

        Yeah, to me religion for most is simply an adolescent need to have certainty and surety in the world, to have the answers, to be right, and in the end, to deal with the thought of death.

        I begrudge no one the solace religion and spirituality can provide; unfortunately, like you, darkcycle, I find it harder as the years go by to view it in a good, moderate light. I will just chalk it up to my glass half empty personality and own that view.

        I just see too many examples of people using religion, as with many other things, to justify the common baseness that humanity is capable of. I guess a positive spin is that murder, oppression, exploitation, and other facets of humanity are so horrifying that we need excuses to tolerate the manifestation of our primal demons. Yay positive thinking! I should stop reading so much news. . . .

        My wife said it best the other day: religion, gods, spirituality, science, the nature of reality–at this point in life, she’s okay with not knowing. There’s a certain peace in not having to have all the answers. I lean toward science (I don’t discount spirituality), and I agree with her in that I don’t need to have all of the “right” answers. Try to find some happiness in the world and have some compassion to allow others to do the same. I’m arrogant, but not so arrogant to presume to know the mind of the happy golden retriever in the sky.

  • DdC

    I have never seen a situation so dismal
    that a policeman couldn’t make it worse.
    — Brendan Behan (1923-1964)

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B67lpDJCIAA4L7B.jpg

    We don need no stinkin terrorists, we have SWATzi’s

  • Mr_Alex

    Seems the likes of Cliff Kincaid, Marijuana Makes You Violent, CADCA, Partnership for a drug Free America is trying to make the shooting look like it was done by cannabis users and the biggest culprits are Cliff Kincaid and Marijuana Makes You Violent and by the way a person on FaceBook has exposed that Marijuana Makes You Violent is a operation to propagandise the children into becoming Prohibitionists, there is a FaceBook page that is dedicated to exposing the operation Marijuana Makes You Violent is running on and it seems Kyle Stevens, Pete Miller and Josh Freeman are either paid trolls who are affiliated with the D.A.R.E program too:

    https://www.facebook.com/MMYVisFAKE?fref=nf

    • Mr_Alex

      The funds raised from their merchandise sales are in return donated to CADCA,Drug Free America and etc, when will people wake up that their donations to MMYV or Marijuana Makes You Violent are going to Prohibitionist groups

  • Tony Aroma

    OT, but WOOHOO! Politicians willing to stand up for their constituents! I imagine such a move would surprise the shit out of Congress, and Harris in particular.

    Defiant D.C. Politicians Push Ahead With Pot Legalization

    “I think we’re on the path to seeing this bill enacted,” Grosso tells U.S. News, noting that “by moving this bill forward, we’re directly confronting Congress.”

    “This is a golden opportunity to do direct civil disobedience,” Grosso says of his bill, “because if Congress is saying, ‘No, you can’t do it,’ and we do it, it challenges them to do what they think they have to do, unlike going out in the street and blocking traffic, where it’s an indirect message to the cause you’re trying to move forward.”

    “Some person from middle-of-nowhere Maryland can come and tell us what’s best for us, it’s ridiculous. … Congress will give us our rights when 10,000 people a week show up on their doorstep and scream at them, but people aren’t doing that yet.”

  • Frank W.

    This is a hoot and a half. I think the dogs will still have plenty of work but it’s the job of a journalist to find that out.
    http://www.kptv.com/story/27813505/marijuana-legal-k9s-police-dogs

    • Duncan20903

      .
      .

      I’m actually shocked that they’re still using cannabis sniffing dogs in Oregon after 41 years of decriminalization. I know that both the Arizona and Massachusetts Appellate Courts have ruled that the smell of cannabis detected by a human LEO is no longer probable cause for a search. Why in the world would a dog smelling the same odor be kosher?

      I did find it refreshing to read quotes from LEOs who grasp the fact that they work for the State of Oregon or Oregon jurisdictions rather than the Federal government. I can’t recall seeing an example of that previous to reading that article.

  • A bit OT but excellent article .
    “How Police Departments Can Mend the Rift With the Public” http://tinyurl.com/lldnjpc – by Frank Serpico:

    “The “war on drugs” is not working. In fact, it’s really a war on the disenfranchised. Recreational marijuana use should be legalized nationwide, and all nonviolent drug offenders should be released from prison. Small-time dealers should no longer be penalized. Marijuana arrests should not be a make-work program for corporate prisons, where people of color are grossly overrepresented for such offenses, engendering recidivism and mistrust of the system. Enforcement of marijuana laws drains police resources that would be far better spent investigating serious crimes. It’s no secret that this generally benign plant was criminalized as a means of control. It is time for this to end.”

  • sudon't

    Well, some countries have done their best to ban religion, but, as with drugs, it just drove it underground. Not sure how far we can tease out the drugs/religion analogy, though. After all, religion really does mess up your head, and send people into murderous rages.

    • darkcycle

      Uh….what? Where did THAT come from? Are you reading the same thread here?
      Can you point out to me where and who on this couch said religion should be banned? So we can subject them to the level of scorn and derision they so obviously deserve? Because IIRC, nobody sitting on this couch has ever seriously called for ANY peaceful personal activity to be banned.
      Religion, drugs, public masturbation (NO, that was metaphorical, put it AWAY you literal minded twit!), all okay by the couch. Unless I missed something very significant, this discussion never, ever went there until you read that in.
      The issue, as has been said, is FANATICISM in religion.

      And the disturbing tendency of people to go right over the edge as soon as they become convinced they are right and everybody else is going to hell. All of a sudden they start wanting to pack the cells of hell with anybody who doesn’t cow-tow to their personal view of how when and exactly how much to worship.
      Does that last bit sound familiar? It should. Substitute “drugs” for “Believe”, and the word “Hell” for the word “Prisons” and you might get a bit of a flash.
      So, if you can’t point out which couchmate made that MORONIC assertion, I will reserve my derision for you.
      Derp, derp, derp.

  • claygooding

    Lawmakers urge end to program sharing forfeited assets with state and local police-

    http://tinyurl.com/lgobggu

    Leaders of the House and Senate Judiciary committees on Friday called on the Justice Department to end the sharing of civil seizure proceeds with local and state police, a change that with few exceptions would cut the flow of hundreds of million of dollars annually to departments in every state.

    In a letter to Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr., the lawmakers said they think money from Justice’s Equitable Sharing Program, the federal government’s largest civil asset forfeiture initiative, may be encouraging heavy-handed tactics by local and state police agencies.

    This is half the battle,,now to end the grants programs for the coupe de grace on the militarization of law enforcement.

    This ends the “Wheel of Fortune” for law enforcement where the right bust could result in hundreds of thousands in funding,,,that had to be used on more drug war.

    Hard hats definitely needed anywhere near any DEA office.

  • Clever/Fuckers

    Funny how they don’t mention which legal drug Batman, Robin and the Oompa Loompas were using.

  • kaptinemo

    OT: fresh from the Rolling Stone:

    The War on Drugs Is Burning Out

    from the article:

    … the federal government is moving into political space created by voters, most recently in November’s election. Top drug reformers had been wary about putting marijuana initiatives on midterm election ballots – worried that younger, pot-friendly voters might stay home, dealing the anti-Drug War movement a costly setback. “The midterm electorate in 2014 represented a wave of anti-progressive, pro-conservative voters,” says the ACLU’s Holcomb. Voters under 30 comprised just 12 percent of the national electorate, while voters over 60 – seniors are the one demographic that strongly opposes legalization – made up a whopping 37 percent. Nonetheless, each legalization measure passed, easily”.

    It was said here back in 2012 that you do not let up on the opposition, never give them a breather, or they’ll be back with a vengeance. The failure of Prop19 is a perfect example. Show weakness, and The Beast attacks. Show it strength, and it looks for easier targets.

    I guess I could sum it up using the lyrics of a popular song last decade:

    ‘Forgive’, sounds good
    ‘Forget’, I’m not sure I could
    They say time heals everything
    But I’m still waiting

    I’m through with doubt
    There’s nothing left for me to figure out
    I’ve paid a price
    And I’ll keep paying

    I’m not ready to make nice
    I’m not ready to back down
    I’m still mad as hell and
    I don’t have time to go round and round and round
    It’s too late to make it right
    I probably wouldn’t if I could
    ‘Cause I’m mad as hell
    Can’t bring myself to do what it is you think I should

    We’ll ‘make nice’ when we’re urinating on prohibition’s grave. And, as the majority, we’ll never back down until we can do that. We’re not listening to the BS anymore; no more tail-chasing rhetoric, no more ’round and round and round’ with the likes of Johnny Pee or Botticelli. Their idea of ‘making it right’ is for us to continue being savaged by their precious DrugWar. But we aren’t going to, because, way down deep, we really, truly are ‘mad as hell’ that this insanity has gone on for so long and cost so many so much. And, it’s finally showing at the ballot box.

  • Tony Aroma

    Also OT – I can’t believe with all the attempts over the years to reschedule marijuana, nobody ever thought to petition the DEA to de-schedule hemp. That should be a slam dunk, as even the DEA would have a hard time justifying including a non-drug in a schedule of controlled drugs.

    Timber, water and hemp highlight Wyden and Merkley’s docket

    The Industrial Hemp Farming Act of 2015 “would remove hemp from the Schedule I controlled substance list under the Controlled Substances Act of 1970, and would define it as a non-drug so long as it contained less than 0.3 percent tetrahydrocannabinol,” according to the lawmakers.

    • primus

      This should clear the way for high CBD, low THC ‘hemp’ to be grown anywhere.

      • DdC

        It’s not even a good magic trick.

        Urgent Warning About Industrial Hemp Jul 31 00

        Representative Cynthia Thielen warning to you in the industrial hemp industry

        1. DEA INTERPRETIVE RULE. First, the DEA will be interpreting the Controlled Substances Act and its own regulations as declaring any products that contain any amounts of THC to be a Schedule 1 Controlled Substance, even though such products are made from portions of the cannabis plant that are excluded from the definition of marijuana. However, the DEA also will publish in the Fed. Register a Proposed Rule and Interim Rule, the latter of which will create exemptions to its Interpretive Rule. Otherwise, as DEA notes, its Interpretive Rule standing alone would declare as “controlled substances” a wide variety of cannabis derived products historically allowed by the federal government. For example, hemp based paper, hemp clothing, hemp rope, and bird seed containing hemp all would be considered a Schedule 1 controlled substance under the DEA Interpretive Rule if they contained any trace amounts of naturally occurring THC.

        Anything with thc they claim controlled substance. They also claim growers would hide Ganja in the hemp fields. Temporarily suspending pollination during the growing season. Lyinghard probably worries hemp buds would get into Ganja sacs and rip off the stoners she’s so fond of. Who should know the difference. Such considerate bastards.

        But we know who really runs the DEA…

        Why Do YOU Think They Call it DOPE?
        * Cannabis Hemp: The Invisible Prohibition Revealed
        * The Elkhorn Manifesto
        * Marijuana and Hemp: The Untold Story

        “I am against Prohibition because it has set the cause of temperance back twenty years; because it has substituted an ineffective campaign of force for an effective campaign of education; because it has replaced comparatively un-injurious light wines and beers with the worst kind of hard liquor and bad liquor; because it has increased drinking not only among men but has extended drinking to women and even children.”
        — William Randolph Hearst,
        initially a supporter of Prohibition,
        explaining his change of mind in 1929.
        From “Drink: A Social History of America”
        by Andrew Barr (1999), p.239.

        Al Capone and Watergate
        Up with booze prohibition, Crude Gasoline stations, Crude Diesel
        Down with making booze, no one was busted for drinking, so much for “concern”. and farmers ethanol tractor fuel. Henry Ford had a fleet of fiber body ethanol and bio diesel engines when prohibition made it impossible. Diesel invented the engine using peanut oil.

        What was fabricated while the media and people fixated on the Watergate red herring? Nixon’s fast tracked Controlled Substance Act now including Hemp and Medicinal Cannabis. Not banned from the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act. Nixon, like his ghouls following him must have been thinking about the message to the children of the wealthy Oil companies if they were put out of business by Hemp. Same with the Fat Pharma kids and Cattle kids if Hempseed nutrition is discovered. What a guy.

        Or it’s just so bad it makes people think it makes people feel good. Relieves pain and neurological symptoms just to fool them. The only success is when they are given gold medals to not hurt their feelings. Everyone understands stoners don’t like to feel sad. So it can’t be allowed to be known. Jobs and profits are at stake. Rockefellers kids might hear the message. What if the Koch Bros had to convert their prisons into schools? Oh the Whomanity of it all.

        Guess Who’s Profiting From Pot Prohibition?
        A Trillion spent on the Ganjawar is a Trillion in the Pockets of Prohibitionists.
        NeoConflicts of Interest

        The judge ruled too much evidence. Defendant was using logic and facts in a court of law. Defendant also used multiple syllable words on at least 17 occasions. His notion that peoples lives should be a priority over potential maybe’s that never pan out is founded on millions of people’s experiences. Not on the hype and flat out lies the court has depended on through out the vast history of pot prohibition. The defendant is therefore also found guilty of contempt. How do you plead? Not Guilty? Are they crazy? Jury trials means the judge orders a GAG on any witness testifying mentioning any kind of benefits pot might provide. For wasting the courts time trying to prove innocence in a rigged game. Mandatory Minimum sentences are doled out. More Koch profits. More Calvina, Sabet Prohibitches Inc. Waldo Pee and his side kick Bendit. Czarbarry and the Tandy Corpse. Dupont and Benslinger and Turner profits pisstasting everyone. Back to the Big A hiself. Anslinger. Califony rehabilitation profits as part of plea bargains for those not wasting the courts time with justice. So my hemp blue jeans have to be imported or grown quasi legally in the lands of incrementalism. Long Live the Message to the kids! Fuck the People!
        Gawd Bless the Untied States of Anemica!
        D.E.A.th & U.S.Al Qaeda!

    • claygooding

      The guy with the hemp soap company has been petitioning the DEA for over two decades and always denied because hemp was still Schedule 1 in the SCT,,which we created and bullied into existence.

      • Duncan20903

        .
        .

        Hemp is in schedule I for the exact same reason that crack cocaine is in schedule II. That’s because the law does not provide a way to exclude them from other chemically identical substances. The proposed law would provide that ability to differentiate.

        Didn’t you mean to say that cannabis is in schedule I of the Federal Controlled Substances Act? Don’t forget almost all of the States’ respective schedule I naughty lists under the Uniform Controlled Substances Act include cannabis.

        Waxing metaphorical:
        It was just a little more than a decade ago when I learned that if someone is beating me over the head with a contract that my first move should be to read or re-read the contract. Back when I owned the trailer park in the City of Radcliff Kentucky the City had granted an exclusive franchise to BFI for trash pickup of every domicile and business. BFI was charging my residents the commercial rate despite the fact that the franchise agreement specifically said that residents of trailer parks were to be billed as residential customers. I called BFI to get the rate changed to the correct amout. My contact refused and kept beating my head with that franchise agreement telling me that it’s a commercial property.

        I finally petitioned the city for an administrative ruling. Before I did that I re-read the franchise agreement to be better prepared for the hearing. I found it truly amusing when I realized that not only did the franchise agreement require BFI to bill trailer park residents the residential rate, it also did not authorize that any of the give or take 20,000 BFI customers in the City of Radcliff be charged a fuel surcharge. Talk about stepping over dollars to pick up dimes, it was a little over $150 a month which BFI didn’t want to pay. The Company screwed itself out of about $40,000 month of forward revenue but also had to refund ~$200,000 that had already been booked as revenue just because I sat down and read the franchise agreement.

        I had that franchise engraved on a slab of concrete and used it to beat that jackass from BFI over the head after the company got screwed by that administrative ruling. Life just doesn’t get any better than that.

        Park Valley Community Gosh it looks so forlorn now that its empty.

        So what’s my point? Very recently I finally sat down and read the cannabis parts of the Single Convention Treaty. The SCT is nowhere in the general vicinity of being as restrictive as people make out.

        http://www.unodc.org/pdf/convention_1961_en.pdf

        Article 28
        CONTROL OF CANNABIS
        1. If a Party permits the cultivation of the cannabis plant for the production of cannabis or cannabis resin, it shall apply thereto the system of controls as provided in article 23 respecting the control of the opium poppy.
        2. This Convention shall not apply to the cultivation of the cannabis plant exclusively for industrial purposes (fibre and seed) or horticultural purposes.
        3. The Parties shall adopt such measures as may be necessary to prevent the misuse of, and illicit traffic in, the leaves of the cannabis plant.

        Article 23
        NATIONAL OPIUM AGENCIES
        1. A Party that permits the cultivation of the opium poppy for the production of opium shall establish, if it has not already done so, and maintain, one or more government agencies (hereafter in this article referred to as the Agency) to carry out the functions required under this article.
        2. Each such Party shall apply the following provisions to the cultivation of the opium poppy for the production of opium and to opium:
        a) The Agency shall designate the areas in which, and the plots of land on which, cultivation of the opium poppy for the purpose of producing opium shall be permitted.
        b) Only cultivators licensed by the Agency shall be authorized to engage in such cultivation.
        c) Each licence shall specify the extent of the land on which the cultivation is permitted.
        d) All cultivators of the opium poppy shall be required to deliver their total crops of opium to the Agency. The Agency shall purchase and take physical possession of such crops as soon as possible, but not later than four months after the end of the harvest.
        e) The Agency shall, in respect of opium, have the exclusive right of importing, exporting, wholesale trading and maintaining stocks other than those held by manufacturers of opium alkaloids, medicinal opium or opium preparations. Parties need not extend this exclusive right to medicinal opium and opium preparations.
        3. The governmental functions referred to in paragraph 2 shall be discharged by a single government agency if the constitution of the Party concerned permits it.

    • DdC

      It’s not even a good magic trick.

      Urgent Warning About Industrial Hemp Jul 31 00

      Representative Cynthia Thielen warning to you in the industrial hemp industry

      1. DEA INTERPRETIVE RULE. First, the DEA will be interpreting the Controlled Substances Act and its own regulations as declaring any products that contain any amounts of THC to be a Schedule 1 Controlled Substance, even though such products are made from portions of the cannabis plant that are excluded from the definition of marijuana. However, the DEA also will publish in the Fed. Register a
      Proposed Rule and Interim Rule, the latter of which will create exemptions to its Interpretive Rule. Otherwise, as DEA notes, its Interpretive Rule standing alone would declare as “controlled substances” a wide variety of cannabis derived products historically allowed by the federal government. For example, hemp based paper, hemp clothing, hemp rope, and bird seed containing hemp all would be
      considered a Schedule 1 controlled substance under the DEA Interpretive Rule if they contained any trace amounts of naturally occurring THC.

      Anything with thc they claim controlled substance. They also claim growers would hide Ganja in the hemp fields. Temporarily suspending pollination during the growing season. Lyinghard probably worriers hemp buds would get into Ganja sacs and rip off the stoners she’s so fond of. Who should know the difference. Such considerate bastards.

      But we know who really runs the DEA…

      Why Do YOU Think They Call it DOPE?
      * Cannabis Hemp: The Invisible Prohibition Revealed
      * The Elkhorn Manifesto
      * Marijuana and Hemp: The Untold Story

      “I am against Prohibition because it has set the cause of temperance back twenty years; because it has substituted an ineffective campaign of force for an effective campaign of education; because it has replaced comparatively un-injurious light wines and beers with the worst kind of hard liquor and bad liquor; because it has increased drinking not only among men but has extended drinking to women and even children.”
      — William Randolph Hearst,
      initially a supporter of Prohibition,
      explaining his change of mind in 1929.
      From “Drink: A Social History of America”
      by Andrew Barr (1999), p.239.

      Al Capone and Watergate
      Up with booze prohibition, Crude Gasoline stations, Crude Diesel
      Down with making booze, no one was busted for drinking, so much for “concern”. and farmers ethanol tractor fuel. Henry Ford had a fleet of fiber body ethanol and bio diesel engines when prohibition made it impossible. Diesel invented the engine using peanut oil.

      What was fabricated while the media and people fixated on the Watergate red herring? Nixon’s fast tracked Controlled Substance Act now including Hemp and Medicinal Cannabis. Not banned from the 1937 Marihuana Tax Act. Nixon, like his ghouls following him must have been thinking about the message to the children of the wealthy Oil companies if they were put out of business by Hemp. Same with the Fat Pharma kids and Cattle kids if Hempseed nutrition is discovered. What a guy.

      Or it’s just so bad it makes people think it makes people feel good. Relieves pain and neurological symptoms just to fool them. The only success is when they are given gold medals to not hurt their feelings. Everyone understands stoners don’t like to feel sad. So it can’t be allowed to be known. Jobs and profits are at stake. Rockefellers kids might hear the message. What if the Koch Bros had to convert their prisons into schools? Oh the Whomanity of it all.

      Guess Who’s Profiting From Pot Prohibition?
      A Trillion spent on the Ganjawar is a Trillion in the Pockets of Prohibitionists.
      NeoConflicts of Interest

      The judge ruled too much evidence. Defendant was using logic and facts in a court of law. Defendant also used multiple syllable words on at least 17 occasions. His notion that peoples lives should be a priority over potential maybe’s that never pan out is founded on millions of people’s experiences. Not on the hype and flat out lies the court has depended on through out the vast history of pot prohibition. The defendant is therefore also found guilty of contempt. How do you plead? Not Guilty? Are they crazy? Jury trials means the judge orders a GAG on any witness testifying mentioning any kind of benefits pot might provide. For wasting the courts time trying to prove innocence in a rigged game. Mandatory Minimum sentences are doled out. More Koch profits. More Calvina, Sabet Prohibitches Inc. Waldo Pee and his side kick Bendit. Czarbarry and the Tandy Corpse. Dupont and Benslinger and Turner profits pisstasting everyone. Back to the Big A hiself. Anslinger. Califony rehabilitation profits as part of plea bargains for those not wasting the courts time with justice. So my hemp blue jeans have to be imported or grown quasi legally in the lands of incrementalism. Long Live the Message to the kids! Fuck the People!
      Gawd Bless the Untied States of Anemica!
      D.E.A.th & U.S.Al Qaeda!

  • thelbert

    here’s frank serpico’s take on police violence: http://tinyurl.com/lsrxfbw

  • DdC

    WTF is with double posts? Edit then two? Girl Scout Cookies?

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