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We don’t know for certain, so there’s no point discussing it

One of the most pathetic elements to prop up prohibition is the uncertainty argument put forth by the so-called academic experts in drug policy in the United States.

“We can’t even talk about legalization,” they wail. “It’s too uncertain.”

They’re fully willing to admit that prohibition itself is destructive and that what we are doing in the United States isn’t working, but as policy-wonks — the very people who should be looking as closely as possible at every alternative to failed policy — they refuse to even seriously consider the one viable alternative.

“We don’t know what will happen,” they moan.

And no, we don’t know for 100% certainty what will happen, largely because the prohibition juggernaut has fought every step of the way to prevent a single fully functioning laboratory of legalization. But that doesn’t mean there’s no data.

We point out Portugal.

“That doesn’t really count,” they complain. “Portugal is a different country. It’s not the United States. Besides, it’s not legalization.”

OK, so how about legalizing marijuana in California? Let’s see what we can learn from that? There’s your lab – a perfect opportunity. “No,” they whine. “We don’t know what will happen and we’re not sure we like the details.”

So don’t worry, Latin America. We won’t be doing anything soon about your drug war problems, because we don’t really want to talk about it.

No reason to talk about drug legalization, expert says

WASHINGTON – Drug legalization in the United States “is not going to happen in our lifetime,” Peter Reuter assured a group of Latin American diplomats and journalists Thursday.

The founder and director of the RAND Drug Policy Research Center from 1989-1993, said it was a “seductive idea” but it will not happen due to the huge uncertainty on the effects such a measure would have on society.

“No one has taken it seriously enough to look for a blueprint of what that would look like,” he said.

Really? Really?

So who should be the one to take it seriously enough to, oh, I don’t know, come up with a blueprint of what that would look like? You’d think maybe a think tank with academic policy researchers might consider doing such a thing.

In fact, they have (though not in the U.S.). They’re called Transform and their serious research paper is even called a “blueprint.” After the War on Drugs: Blueprint for Regulation It’s even a free download.

That’s what happens when you have researchers who actually research.

But don’t we have think tanks with researchers here who study drug policy in the U.S.?

Let’s take a look at what we have passing for research. RAND produced (co-authored by Peter Reuter) An Assessment of U.S. Drug Problems and Policy in 2005.

Nor do we explore the merits and demerits of legalizing drugs, even though legalization is perhaps the most prominent and hotly debated topic in drug policy. Our analysis takes current policy as its starting point, and the idea of repealing the nation’s drug laws has no serious support within either the Democratic or Republican party. Moreover, because legalization is untested, any prediction of its effects would be highly speculative.

Nothing to see here. Move along. No point talking about it. All you people dying in the drug war? Families broken up by our prison system? People overdosing on bad drugs? Sorry. You’re on your own. We’ve got uncertainty problems here. You couldn’t possibly know what that’s like.

Reuter: I am really struck by the lack of suggestions as to what the Mexican government should do other than just give up. I don’t have any good ideas, and nobody else does, either.

I have this mental image of some old sci-fi movie where a massive mechanical monster lays waste to entire cities. The Joint Chiefs are in an underground bunker watching the destruction continue as they futilely try one thing after another to stop the juggernaut. They send in the army to shoot it, but it has no effect. They dig ditches, try fire, and they drop massive bombs, but it only seems to make the monster stronger.

At some point, they realize that they’ve used everything that they have in their arsenal with no positive result and that the destruction of earth is inevitable.

From the back of the room, a janitor who was mopping up some spilled coffee hesitantly speaks up, and says: “I noticed on the monitors that there’s a switch on the side of the monster. Why don’t we just turn it off?”

The government scientist whirls in his chair and yells “My God, man. Are you insane? We have no idea what that would do!”


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47 comments to We don’t know for certain, so there’s no point discussing it

  • kant

    well for all their uncertainty about what legalization could bring they’re absolutely certain that the sky would fall.

  • Cannabis

    The uncertainty is where their next check would come from and what they would do for a living if the tap runs dry for this gig. I mean, really, they have serious degrees and a bunch of letters after their name that would become useless. We can’t waste our investment in their education, right? They would much rather continue on the path that they know, even though it is littered with the bodies of their countrymen. It’s just easier to step over or on them on the way to your next fundraiser, conference or cocktail party, which are all paid for by someone else anyway.

  • Servetus

    Reuter’s same argument could apply to the abolition of slavery in the United States. Abolition had unforeseen consequences, but Americans displayed the resilience to get over it, even though it’s taken some people more time than others to accept that slavery per se, and the culture it spawned, are dead.

    Ending alcohol prohibition had consequences, most of them foreseen (such as ending the violent crime and black market economics associated with an existing alcohol distribution system); and most of them tolerable, or at least having simpler methods of remediation than prohibition.

    The list of examples goes on: Ending the crusades, ending the witch hunts, ending the inquisitions, and so forth.

  • the fear card is all they have. They know we beat ’em on the science but they also know the sheeple in the US and how they bleat and run every time a wonk yells “Wolf!” but it doesn’t change our job, which is to point out, a) they’re idiots, b) their science loses to our science, c) the nation’s with the lowest drug use rates are also those with the more liberal drug policies, d) Prohibition has NO success for them to trumpet.

    I personally think LEAP is the wild card they don’t know what to do with. They have their sycophants like Ms Taylor who call folks like Howard Wooldridge “idiots” even tho’ Howard is at a level Linda can’t even comprhend, heck even Misty is smarter than Linda… and with Gary Johnson speaking up in the upcoming Repugnican race for a Prez candidate we will have an interesting 20 months ahead.

    Of course this made me laugh:

    the idea of repealing the nation’s drug laws has no serious support within either the Democratic or Republican party.

    Like that’s any kind of recommendation… because neither party has much support these days aong the voters… besides, if the “two parties” (one body, two heads) are paying any attention they’ll note the recent events in Egypt are a sign of what’s ahead for them…

    • Duncan20903

      I’ve been thinking if the people of Montana let their legislature repeal medical cannabis access then Mr. Mubarak should consider running for governor since he really didn’t want to retire.
      ………………………………………………………
      The Montana House vote isn’t even 3 days old but already is being cited as a reason to umm, well I’m not really sure of the point. But there is the link to the new study that says that we can’t get it up. I wish they would tell that to mini me. I really appreciate that there are people concerned about how well my particulars perform. Thank god the government is working to preserve the integrity of America’s erections!

      “As dangers become clear, states shy away from medical marijuana”

      http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/readersrespond/bs-ed-medical-marijuana-letter-20110212,0,6900633.story

      Just an LTE, and the writer is the former Baltimore County drug czar. A county level drug czar? WTF?

  • darkcycle

    Odd that this would occur to me, but this is just like an addict….they KNOW their lives are fucked up, but they keep using. They keep using, in part, because they just don’t know what they would do if they WEREN’T using. Their uncertainty is literally killing them. Twisted, no?

  • Duncan20903

    .
    .
    Can I get Mr. Reuter to meet me to discuss his “never in our lifetime” assertion over a cocktail? How about over at Hummingbird to Mars, a trendy new concept bar sporting a speakeasy motif. “It’s a candle-lit throwback to the Prohibition era — bartenders in old-school vests, 1920s jazz on the sound system and black-and-white movies projected on the wall. And, of course, some of the best cocktails being shaken, stirred and flambéed in DC.”

    “The speakeasy-style operation opens infrequently, but generally takes place on Sunday and Monday nights. Hummingbird has no official home, and the location will likely change from time to time. It’s reservation only, and guests are informed of the location after they make reservations.”

    quotes above from:
    http://amandamc.blogspot.com/2008/08/strong-buzz-hummingbird-to-mars.html

    http://www.hummingbirdtomars.com/
    Their motto is: “Well Senator, the bird has landed.”

  • Bruce

    What an insult to Hummingbirds. I got my Hummybird through the winter with hard work and a ton of love. When his feeder was frozen solid and he was panicking I calmed him and but a heater under it. He comes and sits beside me while I smoke while cowardly humans flee when I blow smoke on them swatting themselves as if on fire. That little bird puts all the petty dictators to shame and irrelevance.

    • Duncan20903

      .
      .
      Bruce you are talking about the 1930 quote from Texas Senator Morris Sheppard, “there is as much chance of repealing the eighteenth amendment as there is for a hummingbird to fly to the planet Mars with the Washington Monument tied to its tail”, right?

  • […] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Pete Guither, stoneagesally. stoneagesally said: We don’t know for certain, so there’s no point discussing it http://bit.ly/i0HUQ3 Thanks for posting @DrugWarRant […]

  • until people stop hiding behind “anonymous” avatars and start taking their liberation seriously, the merry-go-round will continue to spin.

    for every “we aren’t sure what will happen” expressed by the bad guys, we have 100 “well, *i myself* can’t come out because …”

    freedom is not for pussies — it requires courage and commitment.

    so stoners of the world, as long as you remain fearful and hidden in the shadows you will continue to be shat upon and the bullshit and fear-mongering will continue

    • darkcycle

      You don’t get it do you? For some people the consequences of coming out aren’t limited to just them. When your family stands to suffer, when people other than you have their lives turned upside down by that decision it’s selfish and thoughtless to take your freedom of expression like that. Foster parents, come out publicly and lose your foster kids back to the system. On a School board somewhere? Not anymore. Spouse in a sensitive public position? Oops, hope YOUR marriage survives. Or if you’re personally involved in illicit activity, well what’s your personal freedom worth?
      I understand your reflex, but this isn’t opposing the war, or lobbying for fewer taxes. This is a live or die situation, and there’s no organized resistance to turn to for help. They’ve already picked up the guns. Stand up and you’ll take the risk of winding up like a mini-version of the Jews in Warsaw, resist a few weeks, ultimately to have your home and life destroyed and end up slaughtered in the end. Better to resist as a guerrilla warrior, you get back at the end of the day to your regular life, a hot meal, and you get to put on your black pajamas next morning and go fuck with the MAN again.

      • not to speak for brian but I’m sure he “gets it.” I’m pretty sure b has a strong idea how much those who do speak up often end up paying and losing.

        Brian’s point is absolutely valid. Those who sacrifice their all are the ones who “get it.” And the iconic defiers – King, Gandhi, etc – only realized that when you understand the gravity of oppression your understanding also carries a weight of responsibility to act upon and oppose that oppression and to meet it with humility and nobility. We celebrate these folks because they did act upon that realized responsibility. The proof of the pudding is in the differences they made.

      • Cliff

        In my 30 years of direct opposition to the war on some drugs and as an active Libertarian, I have come to a conclusion that we all have a role to play in ending the drug war. The ultimate goal is education of those who oppose or are apathetic to the damage, chaos, mayhem and disorder the war on drugs inflicts upon all of society. We are all in this together, we all have something to gain or lose.

        It doesn’t matter if you have a pony tail and wear your activism on your sleeve or, for very valid reasons, you have to employ your activism behind the scenes changing hearts and minds indirectly, all of our efforts are valid, valuable and vital.

    • … of course freedom is “for pussies” too… we all deserve our freedom (even those who let others fight their battles). But I’m there with ya man, I know plenty of friends-of-ganja who haven’t uttered a word, love the herb but won’t get up, stand up for their rights… and that’s so sad. Complacency is the death of liberty and a denial of civility. Human Rights, individual and cognitive liberty demand participation in the process and as any movement for progress in the struggle for human dignity has found, there is a cost. Thank goodness for those who do stand and deliver no matter the odds.

      • Chris

        The worst attitude I see comes from people who smoke weed daily, but don’t want it legalized or don’t care if/when it gets legalized. Why? Because they’re not getting screwed over by the drug war and are happy so long as they can use their drug of choice. Meanwhile, other people are in jail, getting killed, etc. How selfish is that?

    • darkcycle

      I have an adopted son and I’m in the process of adopting another. What would you have me do Allan? Just tell them, “Sorry, find yourself a new Daddy and Mommy, Daddy has to lobby for legalization under his real name?” And am I supposed to tell my wife “Sorry ’bout this, but I’m about to put seven years of your higher education and six years working toward your tenure at risk because I’ve suddenly become Ideologically Pure?” Did it escape you that the primary driver for my work at this shit is my youngest son and his soon to be sibling? Will you people get a grip? if you want my participation in this debate at all it is under those restrictions. So I’ll just fucking shut up for now.
      Fucking ideological purists, not risking anything yourselves, so you think every body else should stick their necks out. This is the same reason I ditched Vivian McPeak and Hempfest. Too fucking self-righteous to accept the help of someone who needed to stay in the background. Bite me.

      • Chris

        Being outspoken about this issue is easier to talk about than to do. No one wants confrontation, that’s difficult and messy. That said, I’ve wasted no time it in the past two years and my life has been significantly harder because of it. Hasn’t paid off yet, but I hope it’s worth it. But to those of you that lie about your drug use just to make it easier to avoid confrontations with people you know and trust, that is pathetic. Have some integrity and stand up for your beliefs. Or just keep smoking weed and pretending you don’t, whatever works for you.

        Now if you’re trying to avoid the government/idiots screwing you over? Do whatever it takes.

      • yo… I’m pointin’ no fingers, I’m having a discussion. I’ve raised two kids (the last 10 years as a single dad), I still have the last one at home… I’m no purist and I know about those pressures DarkCycle.

        Sometimes I go and speak to groups about media activism – letter writing, talking to reporters and editors – and mostly it’s been to MMJ groups. And I tell ’em look, this IS the US of A, still, and we do have a freedom to speak out. And when there is injustice we have a responsibility to speak out. And I am met, every time, by those who say “but then my name is out there.” And my response is always to then speak around it. Speak to injustice, to government fraud and lying.

        One can be openly opposed to the WO(s)D and never mention drugs. One can speak up on mmj and never admit to being a head…

        I’ve been derided by someone no matter what issue I’ve been publicly involved in. I’ve been called an eco-freak and a tree hugger, I’ve been called a peacenik and un-Amer’can commie hippie. If we walk in the barnyard we sure as heck gonna get some shit on our boots…

        I salute anyone and everyone that pitches in on whatever level. Do I wish more people would do more stuff? Duh… and I wish I would/could do more.

        If anyone here wants to help? If you have medium ‘puter skills and are literate go help out MAP, we need editors. MAP’s DrugNews archive now has almost 250,000 articles and each one of those is seen by a MAP editor. I may be a fan of LEAP, even a cheerleader but my drug policy heart is hooked to MAP and we need help. And it can be done without ever having a name appear anywhere…

        And I can only speak for me (I’m a firm believer in the old adage about walking a mile in another’s moccasins) but I say what I want in public, that’s my right and fuck the buttheads who criticize me from the sidelines with their ignorant and snide comments for it without joining the discussion. I’ve never tho’ been threatened w/ firing or anything like that because of my opinion. Speaking out is liberating and empowering and sorely needed. And where would we be if Martin hadn’t accepted the mantel? If Rosa hadn’t said no?

        Please don’t call me a fucking ideological purist, I’m not. I’m disgusted w/ MMJ because if you look at how much energy is expended in defending baby steps and consider what all that energy focused on the one common goal of re-legalization/ending Prohibition (again) could have accomplished instead…

        I’m a smart guy and I’m a dumbass. We all are, ain’t nobody w/o stink… and it’s not my place to criticize any individual. Can I be disappointed in the collective we?

        I think perhaps an apt question at this point would be “how bad does it have to get?”

      • darkcycle

        Fine. Kieth Stroup at NORML has been my friend for the last six years, and they gladly take my money and thank me for my time. MPP takes my money too. So does Senesible Washington, and they don’t preach at me about how I ought to approach legalization, they’re just glad I’m there to help. I don’t honk about it but I give thousands evry year to this movement. Guess I’ll make Sensible Washington.org my homepage now and I’ll kindly fuck off. Fucking ideological purists. There, I said it again, watchagonnado?

      • *everybody* has something to lose — you can have your door kicked in and get a bullet in your head in a “wrong house” raid. what more do you think you risk by placing your real name behind your words?

        as allan said, i’ve personally sacrificed WAY MORE than i would ever expect anyone else to do. what i *do* expect of them however, is that they are of sufficient mettle to bring the conviction of their beliefs to their actions, and the honor of their names to their words.

        and yes, allan, freedom is for pussies too: but they just need to sit down and shut up if they aren’t going to help

      • Calm down, folks. If I recall right, this particular post is about a completely different topic. I know, because I spent quite a bit of time this morning lovingly writing it. It would be nice to see a discussion about the state of academic drug policy in the U.S., or Transform’s Blueprint, or bad science fiction movies, for that matter.

        I agree with Allan’s second post. There are a lot of ways to be involved and make a difference in the drug war, and almost all of them involve getting the word out to others. They don’t all have to involve publicly outing yourself. Malcolm Kyle does his amazing bit with the comments in newspaper articles, lots of folks write letters to the editor. Others post on discussion groups or pass articles on to Reddit and other sources (often anonymously). Some talk with friends or have public speaking engagements (with or without mentioning their own direct involvement). Some contribute financially. Some write a blog and reach people that way.

        If all you do is stay anonymous and smoke weed and complain about the drug laws to people who already agree with you, then you’re probably not part of the solution. And we definitely need more people willing to go public. But nobody has the right to tell you to sit down and shut up.

      • Duncan20903

        .
        .
        Frankly, we’ve got enough loudmouths. What the movement needs most is hard cold cash money. When I ran DC Metro NORML it really sucked having to spend about 50% of our time fund raising and being required by practical reality to open a t-shirt and bumper sticker stand to do even that much. Then there was always the added bonus of assholes who would actually say to my face “well I would give some money but you’d just spend it on pot and get high”. 5 times in 3 years, if I had crossed paths with another one of those shitheads I might be writing this screed from prison.

        Don’t let me sell our Skippy short, he was most certainly our angel, but there’s only so much one person can give of themselves.
        …………………………………………………….

        15 million potheads x $1 per month = $180 million per year. MPP’s budget for FY2011? $2.5 million. It’s sounds just like I’m in a chicken egg hatchery…cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap. Not even $6 per pothead to break a friggin’ billion.
        …………………………………………………….

        DC, I got your back. You do double duty coughing up the do re mi, and I’ll do double duty getting in their face. Fair enough?

      • tintguy

        Darkcycle, I feel your pain brother. I would love to be more vocal and while my career wouldn’t suffer much my kids’ futures and my wife’s career definitely would. Military security screening and Bible Belt school boards don’t want to see families being headed by dads who are outspoken on certain beliefs.

        If that makes me a pussy well….. with as much of that as I’ve eaten over the years I’m not suprised that I’ve become one. What’s that adage, you are what you eat……

        To me though everyone has their value even if you are completely silent on your beliefs. Considering the needs of your family first does not make you less of a man.

        Sacrifice is the essence of a hero but name calling is the essence of a tyrant.

  • vicky vampire

    Yes I agree,everything in life has consequences, Its time to grow up America,Your dysfunctional,Nanny State is at odds with the propaganda of what wonderful Free Entrepreneurial Country,with tons of Freedom,OH Geez, everyone knows those freedoms are diminishing at an alarming rate,Now there is reason to be optimistic though on certain fronts.
    http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/02/big_medical_marijuana_win_in_washington_133_plants.php
    Yes this story Big Medical Win In Washinton 133 Plants, Not Guilty is at least one great story in a Sea of Fear and extreme overeaction to Marijuana Use.
    Oh by the way you Allan 420 you mentioned Leap Cool, while watching some coverage of C-PAC and the whole Gay controversy,on some Video I noticed that LEAP HAS BOOTH,YES COOL A PRESENCE AT C- pac and one some straw poll last year there, while everyone arguing about gays and C-PAC Leap is probably making some inroads hopEfully towards changing some attitudes at this Conservative gathering.

    Yes daily and weekly more solid stories come out about benefits of Cannabis, it like a flood lately,must be driving the pro-hibs into apoplexia.

    Duncan 20903 Quote (As Dangers become clear,states shy away from Medical Marijuana) Oh no the usual Bullshit I read plenty of forums on PYCHOSIS angle it been intelligently argued and sort of debunked, more propaganda.

    No what these Authorities are afraid of is losing their gravy train of arrests and Forfeiture Monies.

    I have been listening to Californians complain about how the peoples vote counts for nothing and how many some Referendums have been overthrown by legislature and or courts,its seems to me its the Republicans who SCREAM about this the most and now in Montana, these same Republicans, are overturning the will of the people, The stench of this HYPOCRASY can be smelled all the way over to China and back,

    Let’s see maybe former,Republican Governor,Gary Johnson fresh from a speech at C-PAC, where he talked about reasons why Cannabis should be legal, needs to come to Montana and remind these Big Nannies to stop thwarting the will of the good folks, of Montana.

  • claygooding

    The Rand people are the same ones that shrunk the cartels profits from $30 to $40 billion dollars marijuana market, as reported too congress by the ONDCP and the FBI in July of 2010,too $1.5 billion in November without an exceptional increase in confiscated marijuana or huge eradication success in Mexico,,,,the market just shrunk.

    And Peter Rueter is also a Chairman of the Board for a Pharmaceutical company,,,they do the drug policy for free,,,,imagine that,,,except the government pays the expenses,including any and all investigators/researchers required to do any study they do for Congress or the ONDCP.

    • Chris

      I looked for this info before but didn’t find an answer. Are they in fact funded by the ONDCP to do these studies? Because if so, they legally can’t suggest legalization, making these studies as biased as the ONDCP itself.

  • Bruce

    Stay in touch with nature. Don’t allow the human zoo to drive you mad.
    Birdies.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1rp4krXKpQ

  • divadab

    The fight to re-legalize cannabis is part of a larger fight – to rid us of an illegitimate federal government. What can you say else about a government which prohibits a plant that clothed the Revolutionary Army, provided cordage and sailcloth for 300 years of US history and 10,000 years of human history, and which Betsy ROss’s flag was made of? A government which has a corrupted and neutered the Supreme Court, a Legislature which consists of purchased sinecures inhabited by sycophants to the rich, and an Executive pre-selected to do the bidding of the real secret government.

    A government which invades the houses of its citizens with armed soldiers, humiliates and abuses them, throws them in jail, takes their children, and steals their property, all for the “crime” of growing the same plant grown by a majority of the Founders.

    DIsgraceful! Shameful! And it started with FDR and “The NEw Deal” – the American version of Stalin;s five year plans, Mao’s Great Leap Forward, and HItler’s “Liebensraum” – all PR covers for a ruthless expansion of government police powers in order to dominate and control the citizenry. And the 1937 prohibition of “marihuana” was part of this authoritarian process. So we’re living the legacy of the fascism of the thirties, which informs the neo-conservative neo-fascism of the new millenium.

    So – keep it growing, honor the green lady, all evil empires pass in due time.

  • claygooding

    Chris,I believe you can find out about Rand.org at their website,where they do studies for more than just the government,but they list themselves as a “non-profit”
    organization. It explains on one of their pages that any study done will require their customers to pay for the expenses of any study done.
    Peter Rueter is easy,just google him and you will see that he is a board member on a pharmaceutical company connected with Bayer,I believe,who is connected with the people pushing Sativex,,,,medicine made directly from the cannabis plant,which the ONDCP is trying too move to schedule III.

    It is a tangled web we weave and at the center of every web is a pile of cash.

  • vicky vampire

    WOW-Divadab, Everything you said Right on Target,so succinct.
    Bless You.

  • ezrydn

    Wazzamata with these “intellectual” types??? All one has to do is look at 100 years back from today to see how legalization works. It seems they have neither foresight nor hindsight. The answer’s there. However, they refuse to acknowledge it exists.

    You’re right, Allan, Misty IS smarter than their crowd!!!

    OT-BTW, Sunday is Lt.Gen. Hal Moore’s 89th Birthday. He was my Bn. Commander in the Ia Drang, i.e., “We Were Soldiers.” Mel Gibson played his part. Pop over to Facebook and wish him a happy birthday. He’s listed under “Lt. Col. Hal Moore.” Thanks.

  • @ DarkCycle… whatever. I’ve never criticized you or anyone else in drug policy. Why you take it personal is beyond my scope of understanding. Have a nice day.

  • Matthew Meyer

    Pete, you rock. Beautiful post about a horrendous reality.

  • ezrydn

    I follow Pete’s drift. Those “in power” won’t open their eyes to the existance of what they seek. I think we saw the same thing on TV over the last 18 days. This puts us in an odd position due to not having the power to pull the media’s attention to the existance of that which is denyed. We DO have to keep their feet to the fire, however, which we don’t seem to have a problem with.

    AS of today, Sat., we have just 628 days till Election Day (Yes, I’ve got a countdown timer on my Desktop).

    Above, I mentioned Col. Moore. If I learned anything from him, it was this: “When you think you’ve tried everything, think again. There’s always that one next thing to try.” Mould your own glove.

    Get the other party to start the conversation by asking a very generic question. Feel them out before you start trying to get to specifics. I’ve found that works great with both those you know and those you don’t. Get THEIR opinion FIRST! Work from there, from generality to specifics. If it takes that. After all, you can remind them that the Prez said “it’s a worthwhile topic for discussion.”

    • Duncan20903

      Don’t we own any shoes? I think I still have a pair in the back of my closet…oh blah, a little old lady has taken up residence in one.

  • Duncan20903

    Dude it’s Baltimore. Didn’t you watch the wire?

    The Wire was in Baltimore City. While Baltimore County does surround and fully engulf Baltimore City on three sides it isn’t the same government or police force by a long shot. It stretches all the way to the PA border to the north, and includes some very, very rural locales.
    http://www.zipmap.net/Maryland/Baltimore_County.htm

    I own property in West Baltimore. Have I seen The Wire? I’ve friggin’ lived it in actual reality.
    ————————————————————————————————————————-

    I’m working on a brand new Wikipedia page, help and constructive criticism welcomed. May I introduce…
    …………………………………………………….
    The “argumentum ad liberi”, or the argument to the children fallacy. Most often identified by the presence of the phrase “What about the children?” and less often “Doesn’t anyone (anybody) care about the children?”

    This fallacy is designed in the spirit of the Straw Man fallacy as a distraction. The formula is “if A=B then C=D”, or if one proposes that something is appropriate for adults to choose or reject then one supports the destruction of the lives of our children, their enslavement to illegal drugs, and their forced participation in deviant, perverted pedophilian sex rituals.
    …………………………………………………….

    Any suggestions? I’m seriously intent on adding this to Wikipedia, or at least to the Uncyclopedia.

    http://tinyurl.com/war-on-some-drugs-uncyclopedia
    The writer of this article is a Libertarian and has a greedy, godless outlook.

    “Whoops! Maybe you were looking for War on some drugs?”

    http://tinyurl.com/war-on-some-drugs-uncyclopedia
    “More correctly labelled the “War on SOME people who use SOME drugs” because of the utter lack of understanding of the disambiguation of the alphabetical word “drugs”. We all know that weed and shrooms are not drugs but ancient extraterrestrial devices for increasing penis size. The drug war has a complex of origins most of which seem to revolve around a silly brawl in the back garden of a man called Adam somewhere on earth yonks ago. The scrap included a China man, an American secret service agent and some German pharmaceutical representatives and it soon spread right around the world like Nike, into every street, every city and every nation state. Paralizing many. The squabble allegedly began over a cup of sugar which Adam borrowed from a neighbour for an Apple pie he was baking for his wife. Due to the scarcity of sugar at that time and the tiny size of the pie a fight broke out over who had the divine rights to the last slice.

  • This is not my America

    The founder and director of the RAND Drug Policy Research Center from 1989-1993, said it was a “seductive idea” but it will not happen due to the huge uncertainty on the effects such a measure would have on society.

    Is it any wonder we are a nation on the brink of bankruptcy? They stand there watching the house burn and are afraid to do anything. Hand them a bucket of unknown liquid and they say its UNCERTAIN whats in it and it may make the fire worse. Hello! The house is ablaze! Does it matter! Try something FFS !

  • This is not my America

    Happy Birthday Lt.Gen. Hal Moore and glad you made it outta there EZ, this movement wouldnt be the same without ya. For those that havent seen “we were solders”…go rent it.

  • Rookie

    At Last The TRUTH has been spoken.. Those with the Power Know it..

    IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN IN OUR LIFETIMES…. I am 51 Years of Age. There was a time in my youth you could enjoy your freedom and privacy. Although the Powers to be said it was illegal we would ignore them and enjoy our lives. Today it is different. They have enlisted employers and technology to sniff our urine. OUR FREEDOMS ARE LONG GONE AND WE ARE INCHES FROM ENSLAVEMENT>>>

    • divadab

      I’m optimistic – and I’m 53. There is a very simple solution – abdicate from their corrupt system to the extent possible, and make it work for you and your family when you must be part of it. Now I’m in a privileged position, since I’m self employed and will never ever be a corporate drone again, and I realize younger parents may not have this choice. Yup, that;s right, the fuckers make hostages of your kids and servitude of fatherhood and motherhood, which are honorable estates worthy of respect and support. How evil are the overlords! But have faith in your own strength and love for your friends and Babylon will fall.

    • Duncan20903

      I’m 50, and think we’re much closer to freedom than ever before. The wall is cracked along the foundation.

  • Murmaxx

    “The founder and director of the RAND Drug Policy Research Center from 1989-1993, said it was a “seductive idea” but it will not happen due to the huge uncertainty on the effects such a measure would have on society.”

    Seems to me society did just fine for the tens of thousands of years before the early 1900’s when drug prohibitions first started. Maybe it’s not research they need to look at, but History! This crazy idea of controlling the behavior of the masses through prohibitions on substances is tearing America apart. This “witch hunt” will end, and the sooner the better.

  • Steve in Clearwater

    AE – “I’m a smart guy and I’m a dumbass…”

    Sage admission from which we could all draw increased personal perspective……..

    Meanwhile, I will update and submit to Pete my 600 word essay on how drug legalization is working right NOW in the good ol’ USA

  • David Marsh

    What unknown evil lurks in the uncertainty of cannabis legalization that would cause societal acceptance of the known evil in the certainty of prohibition? The acceptance of the known evil is evidence of their fear. What are they afraid of? Maybe they are afraid of us treating them the way they treat us. With hatred, judgment, segregation, demonetization and retribution. Maybe they are afraid of being treated like “pussies” that are OK if they sit down and shut up. Aren’t we better than that? I say yes we are, contrary to prohibitionist popular opinion and unfortunate frustrated childish activist outbursts. This is a war on fear ,ours and theirs! Help them and we help ourselves. Help ourselves and we help them.