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December 2013
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Open Thread

I’ve got a number of commitments over the holidays so I’ll be in and out here. Yet there’s a whole lot going on, so everyone take shifts and keep active in comments, while having a wonderful, joyous, and safe holidays.

Plenty of eggnog in the fridge, spiced cider on the stove, and someone brought some fresh-baked sugar cookies with sprinkles. I think the fruitcake finally got tossed out last year.

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51 comments to Open Thread

  • Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere

    Merry Christmas, Pete!

    “But as of Tuesday, growing marijuana at home was legal, up to six plants per family and an annual harvest of 480 grams, or about one pound.”


    • Howard

      The gift that keeps on giving (go Argentina!);

      Merry Christmas everybody.

      • crut

        Look at the dominoes fall! I’m a kid again!

        • Malc

          My mother was very poor and had to go back to work when I was just a few weeks old. For years, she would leave me with my gran, who was poorer still. The only thing in my gran’s house I was allowed to play with was a box of dominos. It could easily have gone the other way and turned me into a psycho domino-killer, but I love them too, and far more than anybody here could ever imagine 🙂
          The suspense is doing my poor head in.

    • Duncan20903


      I never thought I’d see the day. Getting to watch the idiot prohibitionists reacting like decapitated chickens has made the whole ordeal almost worthwhile. (the keyword there is “almost”)

  • curmudgeon

    Happy holidays to all my couchmates. May 2014 explode in legalization!

    • Duncan20903


      I’m not much of a “there ought to be a law” kind of guy but there ought to be a law that says that Calvina Fay shouldn’t be allowed to lie on christmas day. No need to argue about whether what she regurgitates is true with a codified “her lips were moving” per se standard. This one is from the “what color is the sky in your prohibitionist fantasy land?” category:

      Poll: Tampa Bay residents voice firm support for medical marijuana

      Calvina Fay, who runs an antidrug organization in St. Petersburg, attributes the poll results to insufficient information.

      “When people are educated on these ‘medicine by popular vote’ initiatives, their opinions swing in the other direction,” said Fay, executive director of Save Our Society from Drugs. “But regardless of whether one believes that street pot is medicine, when people examine the proposed amendment’s language closely, they reject it because it is fraught with so many loopholes and opportunities for abuse that would be very bad for Florida.”

      Darn it, didn’t Dorothy’s house land on and kill the Wicked Witch of the East? Are wicked witches like black market vendors, knock off one and there are three more wannabes ready to take over her duties?

      • crut

        I saw that in the paper this morning. Front page news. Thankfully the Calvina quote was pushed off to page 6.

        Stubborn old broad. It’s not difficult to understand that if 2 people are given the same information, they may draw significantly different conclusions about what it means. The unfortunate truth is that literally HALF of people are below average intelligence. Along with that, I remember a prohibitch comment sometime earlier this year where someone said something like “The problem with the legalization movement is that there are too many smart people involved…”

        • Duncan20903


          I think that you’re using a couple of incorrect assumptions in your calculations which have led you to some mistaken conclusions. I just realized a couple of hours ago I had based my initial opinion on one of those same assumptions.

          It’s not difficult to understand that if 2 people are given the same information, they may draw significantly different conclusions about what it means

          That’s true as far as it goes. But what we missed is that only a subset of the population is able to confer with Ms. Fay without suffering extreme psychological trauma. So I have to withdraw my conclusion that she’s lying about that. She’s probably actually right that she’s been able to poison that subset of the population into being against the proposed ballot initiative.


          Also that average intelligence math isn’t right crut. If you change it to “half the people were below the median intelligence” you would be correct.

          Let’s try an example using income. Start with a business that has a annual payroll liability of $1.45 million and 10 employees paid an average annual salary of $145,000.00

          That average is correct but meaningless. 9 of the individual employees at this hypothetical business earn a salary of $50,000 per year with the CEO being paid an annual salary of $1 million.

          It really is possible for the vast majority of the population to have lower than average intelligence. IMO that’s why it’s taken us so many decades to get them to understand that the epic failure of public policy which we call the absolute prohibition of cannabis is just plain stupid. So are they.

          The Florida campaign is going to be very interesting since it’s going to happen in the back yard of Calvina Fay and the Semblers. The very belly of the beast.

        • Crut

          Duncan, I think I’d like to share a bag of volcano vapor with you some time!

          As far as the Florida campaign, I don’t have confidence in the Florida Supreme Court to vote favorably for us. The governments shadow money is being spent… they don’t see the inevitably coming 300MPH freight train. I hope they don’t realize until too late that they are sitting on the tracks.

      • kaptinemo

        Whenever I see that phrase ‘educate the public’ being used by a prohib, I grind my back teeth to keep from emitting some choice observations.

        Of course, the prohib means indoctrinated, not educated. Education requires access to all sources of information, not just the proffered ones, so as to make an intelligent decision.

        Which is why cannabis law reform is experiencing such a groundswell; the very education I mentioned regarding cannabis has been taking place…to the detriment of the prohibs.

        It is an education only partly grounded in academics; most of it comes from simple observation. As a result, in no small part thanks to the Internet, intelligent, conscious decisions are being made every day, regarding the choice of cannabis over alcohol and tobacco and other drugs – a point which causes the economic backers of prohibition no end of sleepless nights.

        The public is has had enough indoctrination masked as education, and has, based on its’ own experiences with those doing the indoctrinating, been forced to educate itself. In so doing, the majority of the public, fed up with the lies it’s been told, is moving to end the necessity for telling those lies…and employing those who disseminate them.

  • darkcycle

    Kids are already breaking toys, and I have a sea of wrapping paper to wade through to get to my coffee. Merry Christmas Pete, and to all my couch-mates, let’s fire up that Christmas tree….

  • DonDig

    Merry Christmas Pete and mates. Happy Hempy New year as well.
    The world is turning over a new leaf. Yahoo!

  • allan

    bless us all… each and every one.

    The house smells of a freshly baked (tho’ not from scratch, thanks Marie) pumpkin pie, just out of the oven. In a bit I’ll be cooking up some fresh cranberry sauce and later this morn I’ll do the turkey thing and damn but if I won’t smoke a bowl or 5 or 6 throughout the day.

    Many here been at this a while. But some stop by because Pete’s couch is easily found by anyone looking for any drug/drug policy related keywords. Pete’s a Googleable guy. So we get fresh blood cruising thru and to someone freshly entering the fray between Pete and his couch ‘taters there is a lot of info (and bad jokes) to be found in most any post and comments.

    So, in honor of the season and for those trying to find a place to sit, a few of this old man’s holiday faves, starting with our very own retelling of Dickens’ classic:

    and because this time of year needs a few yucks:

    and what Christmas could be complete w/o a Python’s Christmas in heaven:

  • Duncan20903

    No, we still have the fruitcake. Don’t you remember that we used it to steady the couch’s wobble on Boxing Day 2012?

    • allan

      that was it! I ‘member now, it was the most solid thing we could find (except my head and I nixed that option)

  • claygooding

    My stomach is past full,,one eye is closed and someone just lit another one,,a buddy brought me a small hookah for Christmas and we finished off the FP out of WA state and Dark Gardens I had cured in it,,AWESOME..and it being my first Hookah in a long time I forgot how smooth it was and how that caused you to overload your lungs. that is why I am down to one eye,,,,

  • DdC

    Nollaig Shona agus athbhliain faoi mhaise ú
    Buon Natale e nd un Felice Anno Nuovo
    Καλά Χριστούγεννα και nd Ευτυχισμένο το Νέο Έτος
    Merry Christmas ve nd Yeni Yılınız Kutlu Olsun
    Prettige Kerstdagen en nd een Gelukkig Nieuwjaar
    Frohe Weihnachten und nd ein gutes neues Jahr
    Feliz Navidad y nd un Feliz Año Nuevo
    Joyeux Noël et e une Bonne Année

    It’s finally official: Uruguay marijuana legalization bill signed into law ‏@DrugPolicyFacts #mmot #DrugWar

  • DdC

    Maury Show ‏@sweetydoriti
    “The results are in… In the case of baby Jesus, Joseph, you are NOT the father!”

    Bill Maher ‏@billmaher
    Merry Xmas! This is the year atheists started meeting communally just like churchgoers! Let’s nip that shit right in the bud.

    Tommy Chong ‏@tommychong
    Merry Kushmas, tweeders…tc

    Santa’s Red Mushrooms
    The Psychedelic Secrets of Santa Claus
    The True Spirits of an Old-Time Christmas
    Archaeology: Ancient Temple Hashish Incense! Did Jesus Inhale?

    Erowid Center ‏@Erowid
    ‘DEA agent leaves job for marijuana investment firm’

    ACLU National ‏@ACLU
    This mother misses her son every #Christmas bc of extreme sentencing. … #HomeForTheHolidays

  • thelbert

    i’m confident that the brothers and sisters will keep christmas well, so merry christmas Pete and happy festivus Allan and everyone else that puts a dent in the couch. plenty of homegrown, a full belly and good freinds, that’s the best kind of christmas.

  • DdC

    The Grower’s Night Before Christmas
    or “A Rescue from St. Nicholas”

    ‘Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the growroom
    Not a plant was still standing; not a bud was in bloom.
    The branches were drying, hung out in a line
    In hopes that a bankroll soon would be all mine
    The trimmers were ready to manicure buds;
    But meanwhile did nothing but drink up my suds.
    Didn’t matter to me; I still had my stash.
    And in just a few weeks I’d be swimming in cash.
    Then, at the front door, arose such a clatter,
    I stubbed out my joint to see what was the matter.
    Away down the hallway I flew like a flash,
    Looked out the window and let out a gasp.
    What to my wondering eyes did appear,
    A drug bust in progress with ten cops in SWAT gear!
    They came to the door and pounded away.
    It was worse than the cops; they were all DEA!

    Now I was panicked; I didn’t want blame
    I yelled at the trimmers and called them by name:
    “Now, Jeremy! Now, Jason! Now Pedro and Dale!
    Get out of here, dudes, or you’re going to jail!
    To the back porch! To the top of the wall!
    Now dash away! Dash away, dash away all!”
    They took off like rabbits, hightailing it fast.
    I now worried greatly about saving my ass.
    The cops were now breaking the door down with force.
    The plants gotta go, I thought with remorse.
    I ran to the fireplace to burn up my crop,
    When suddenly St. Nicholas dropped down with a plop.
    “Holy shit! It’s Santa!” I said with surprise.
    I wondered, could St. Nick tell the cops a few lies?

    Police were now swarming through the front door
    And screaming at me to “Lie down on the floor!”
    But Santa winked slyly and settled my head,
    And soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread;
    He spoke not a word, and made not a sound
    Just filled up his toy sacks with all of my pounds.
    And laying his finger aside of his nose,
    And giving a nod, up the chimney he rose;
    He sprang to his sleigh, taking all of my crop.
    Regardless, I’m happy I didn’t get popped.
    The cops were all pissed; the evidence was gone.
    They couldn’t even bust me for having a bong!
    I laughed to myself as they drove out of sight —
    “That’s the best present ever on this Christmas night!”

    How the #Weed Delivery Guy Saved #Christmas

  • Good article by syndicated columnist George Will- “Drug war’s sledgehammer justice” about mandatory minimum sentences.

  • Duncan20903


    Doggone it, this post was intended to be in this space. Comments are open, sic her. (or is that sick her?)

    Here’s an example of how to lie with statistics: It’s an annual event, every Christmas my sister-in-law gives everyone in the family a half interest in a Powerball ticket. So sure enough I found myself the proud half owner of a classic example of something not worth the value of the paper on which it was printed. Had I stopped at the 7-11 and bought 5 more I would have increased my chance of winning by 500%! Yet I still won’t have the proverbial snowball’s chance of winning. Think about that the next time a “scientific” study says that choosing to enjoy cannabis raises your chance of suffering [hysterical rhetoric] by _00%

  • And you thought last year was good

    The petition for the legalization of cannabis reaches the Moroccan parliament.

    “Mediane added that this bill also seeks to “end the suffering of farmers” who are dedicated to the cultivation of this plant, as the vast majority of them are. The bill implies in particular parts of the areas of Al Hoceima, Taounate, Chau, Uazán and Tetouan in the north and northwest of Morocco, which has one of the largest growing areas in the world of cannabis. Also, the bill provides for the creation of agricultural cooperatives, and a national agency as the sole competent authority to supervise the cultivation, production and marketing of this plant, and provides penalties for all illicit production of cannabis than for therapeutic or industrial purposes.”


  • stlgonzo

    Good year end piece by Jacob Sullum

    The 5 Best Drug Scares of 2013
    Caffeine conniptions, lethal LSD, pot-smoking punks, vaping vapors, and devouring dope

  • darkcycle

    The Huff Post confronts a very real, looming crisis: With pot legal, how will the prison industry fill it’s cells?

    • War Vet

      Some driving offenses and those owing money will suffice for the government. Maybe we can transform the buildings for something good . . . a large store chain or mall even. We could use them to store prohibitionists in -give them plenty of hemp paper to write their arguments as to why it should still be illegal and all . . . reform them by making them grow hemp for the prison industrial complex. Hempseed gruel all day and night for meals.

  • strayan

    What a surprise:

    Restricting cold meds isn’t working

    …but hang on… according to Keith Humphrey’s this strategy is working, you just have to pretend that decreases in domestic production was the original and only goal. In other words: redefine success. Apparently these laws were never designed to reduce methamphetamine use, just stop Americans burning their house down (nevermind that production just shifts to Mexico):

  • Servetus

    Those crazy Swedes are at it again. A seven-kilo shipment of weed on a train from Copenhagen got nabbed by Swedish cops. The courier claimed it was “grass” for her lawn. Her brother-in-law’s fingerprints were all over the courier bag. He claimed he had handled the bag thinking it at first to be trash. Both were sentenced to 2 yrs 3 mos.

    The moral of the story is: always fabricate more imaginative and entertaining excuses than these guys so you don’t insult the court’s intelligence and piss off the sentencing judge .

  • DdC

    From: @TransformDrugs Debating *whether* to legalize pot is pretty pointless. The important debate now is *how* to legalize it.
    By: Mark A.R. Kleiman @MarkARKleiman

    • Crut

      “And for any state looking for how to do it, I’m your man with the most experience! My fee is…” –Drug reform profiteer

      • kaptinemo

        I think the bitter taste he’s left in WA State’s mouth has pretty much precluded anyone else making that mistake.

        He took them for almost a million. You have to wonder how many school lunches that might have bought…especially in light of the fact that’s the best meal of the day for some kids.

        I’d sooner have asked celibate priests about how to have a happier sex life than ask an avowed prohib how to set up a legal cannabis market. It makes exactly as much sense, that is to say, none at all.

  • DdC

    German Study: Marijuana-Based Medications Relieve Pain;
    No Problem Driving While Medicated.

    Cannabis use and Driving
    Cannabis Users Are Safer Drivers Than Non-Users

    Kerli’s doing American’s harm in the name of stealing liberty to protect the now orphaned kids. Paid by taxes. Policy coming out of Americans Favorite Faith Based Thimk Tanks.

    Meanwhile as the Sheriff and his posse probe citizens for hidden doobies: “domestic abuse is the largest cause of morbidity in women aged 19-44, greater than war, cancer & motor vehicle accidents”

    Seems one could say the largest cause of morbidity in women aged 19-44,