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November 2012
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Shutting off the gas won’t stop the fire

At a raging fire consuming blocks of the city last night, Fire Chief Kil Gerlikowski pooh-poohed suggestions that they cut the gas supply that was fueling the fire. “That won’t stop the fire. It’ll still have wood and other materials that will keep it going,” said Kil. “It’s a bit naive to think that shutting off the gas is a solution.”

Legal drugs won’t stop cartels: expert

“People say, ‘gee if we could just legalise drugs, maybe we could stop violence in Mexico’,” Mr Kerlikowske told the First International Conference on Law Enforcement and Public Health on Monday.

But he said the cartels were also involved in so many other aspects of organised crime that ending their drug trade would not stop their violence.

“So I think it’s a bit naive for us to think that this issue around drug prohibition, as it’s often called, is going to reduce violence or reduce significantly the amount of money that will come into the transnational organised crime groups.”

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48 comments to Shutting off the gas won’t stop the fire

  • ben

    Whoa, since when does the drug czar use the word “prohibition”?

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    • Matthew Meyer

      No kidding…it looks like a small anomaly, perhaps, but my first thought was that we put those words in his mouth!

      In my opinion, giving a name to the status quo this way–as opposed to letting it bask in the glory of default status–is a crucial step to reform.

      Not only does using the p-word draw important parallels with the disastrous “Noble Experiment,” it also provides an important moral shift from “legalizing” to “ending prohibition,” which seems very different to some folks.

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      • kaptinemo

        Oops! Uh, Gil-me-lad? Your Freudian slip is showing…

        This is exactly why, way back around 2000-2001 we reformers began hammering the use of the p-word in the MSM, again and again and again, in a reverse of the usual prohib “Big Lie” – the reformer’s BIG TRUTH.

        Things started to change perceptively after that. The prohibs tried to blunt it with calling themselves ‘preventionists’, but that had all the aerodynamic qualities of a brick in flight. They gave up on that after it was pointed out that it meant the same thing. And, like the p-word, the policy was just as lame, ineffectual and impotent.

        And as you can now see, with the DrugCzar using the p-word, we have indelibly implanted that relationship to the equally-failed verion, Prohibition 1.0 in the consciousness of the public.

        As a line from a movie once said, “Truth is a virus”…and Gil, try as he has had to avoid it, has caught the bug.

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    • OneMoreForJesus

      Yes, and doing that while answering questions at the same time was quite remarkable. I wonder if he’s also using the same tried and tested tactic that was pioneered by Jeremiah Denton?

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  • claygooding

    And this is the best they can come up with to run a 25 billion dollar bureaucracy,,now wonder the wosd is losing.

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  • Francis

    Prohibition is violence. Keep that in mind and the absurdity of claims like Gil’s becomes obvious. Because what’s he really claiming is that we wouldn’t reduce violence if we … reduced violence.

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  • divadab

    Here’s the real issue for Gil – turning off the gas would reduce the fire and reduce the number of fire-fighters required. It’s all about jobs for the boys to Gil – he is loyal to his team and that means keeping the tax dollar-funded salaries coming! Including his own…….

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  • Common Science

    It makes me smile to know that the intelligence level of the prohibitionist’s target audience is obviously so much more… unsophisticated than the reform side.

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    • Common Science

      Kerilowske, Leonhart, Sabet et al constantly give the appearance of being ignorant of the appropriate history, science or cultural aspects that render their method of operations conspicuously redundant. How that justifies their favoured mainstream media cohorts constantly introducing these droning, mooncalved louts as ‘experts’ is beyond me.

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      • Peter

        “droning, mooncalved louts” for Gil, Leonhart and Sabet…love it

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      • Curmudgeon

        You haven’t heard my definition of expert. An ex is a has been. A spurt is a drip under pressure. These guys are definitely experts in my book.

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  • well hell Gil… there might ain’t be no war but it damn sure does look like prohibition, don’ it Floyd…

    And I just realized what this means! it took 4 years but Gil finally opened his dictionary… atta boy Gil. And yes, we know you were disappointed it wasn’t a coloring book

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  • OneMoreForJesus

    As politics of marijuana advocacy sobers up America, residents of Kullu valley meekly look for a way out from the draconian Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances (NDPS) law to cultivate and trade charas, something that always was a way of life till Parliament criminalized it in 1985.
    “With Colorado and Washington, two states of America, voting in favour of legalizing recreational use of marijuana (Charas) on November 7, its time the Indian authorities realized the futility criminalizing the socio-cultural and functional uses of cannabis growing in Kullu valley,” Vikas Thakur (name changed), a resident of Kullu valley that is famous for producing the world’s best charas.

    >>

    Earlier a study ‘Drug Trade in Himachal Pradesh’ financed by UNESCO Management of Social Transformation Program and done Molly Charles in 2001 pointed out cannabis products were used by villagers to perform religious ceremonies (like Shivaratri), to prepare medicine, produce local shoes, bags, ropes and even to make a certain number of dishes.
    This study of the drug trade argues that it is impossible to enforce legislation that does not take into account existing socio-economic and cultural realities.
    While consuming Bhang (Charas) is not only socially acceptable during festivals like Holi and Shivaratri, allowed for mystics and sadhus and is even promoted in films,” says Thakur, “ironically its cultivation is banned.”
    Legalizing the cultivation of marijuana, will not only unburden the legal system, reduce crowding in jails and will also stop stigmatizing and criminalizing charas consumers, something that is much safer than alcohol and tobacco, contests Thakur.

    http://tinyurl.com/cbdogna

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    • SwanseaJack

      “Chinchilla said she needs more information about the consequences of making drug sales legal to decide whether that would be a desirable policy. Such a step would only work if regulations were established to prevent an “explosion” in use, and for now Costa Rica will continue trying to stop the transit and sale of narcotics, she said.”

      Chinchilla questions war on drugs.

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  • darkcycle

    WTF. From Gilley.

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  • Duncan20903

    .
    .

    So does this mean that they’re going to quit trying to blame us for the cartel violence based on the allegation that the money we send them is responsible for enriching and empowering the organized criminal syndicates? I mean if the money from cannabis has no influence on their level of violence it’s perfectly OK to send them money. They simply can’t have it both ways. But gosh, the thought of buying cartel brickweed makes me think of myself as Mr. T. saying “I pity the fool!

    ———-

    It’s official! We’ve got “Big Merrywanna” trying to manipulate the laws!

    NY being pressured to legalize marijuana for medical uses
    By CARL CAMPANILE
    November 12, 2012

    Put this in your pipe and smoke it, New York.

    A serious campaign is under way to green New York’s economy by legalizing the use of marijuana for medical purposes, The Post has learned.

    Big Marijuana has tapped politically juiced Albany lobbyists — including powerhouse Patricia Lynch Associates — to spread the smoky ganja gospel in the Empire State.
    /snip/

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/ny_rx_pot_pushers_yes_we_cannabis_vO25Qhi3BwEQslmfucXTnN

    I was going to “a href” the URL but thought it something people should see as is. I swear I’ve heard people using the word “pusher” more frequently in the last couple of months than in the 3+ decades since it went out of style. One can’t call a cannabis vendor a “pusher” unless he believes that demand rises to meet supply. A pusher goes out and does everything he can to get people addicted to raise his total profits. A dealer just lets people know that he can supply them if they’re so inclined. Lots of people don’t understand that it’s an immutable law of economics that supply rises to meet demand, not vice versa.

    Can we start calling the enemies of freedom “Big Prohibition” now?

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    • Francis

      Prohibitionists are the ones who have to “push” their product on unwilling customers. Cannabis sellers are simply engaging in voluntary trade to meet a market demand. And their product, unlike that of the prohibitionists, is non-toxic. (Hmm, maybe we should start calling the drug warriors “prohibition-pushing parasites”?)

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    • Common Science

      OK Duncan: trouble with would-be legalizers, they have much different values than “Big Prohibition.”

      http://tinyurl.com/a8jgqux

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  • Dante

    Ending Prohibition is Naive?

    No. What is naive is expecting any government servant to actually serve the public by derailling his own gravy train.

    So, that means all the Drug Warriors would have to denounce the War on Drugs. Never gonna happen, because there is too much money in (for the Drug Warriors). Just like in real war, we will have to take it from them by force. And that is exactly what the Drug Warriors are preparing for.

    That’s why all the Drug Warrior Agencies are stocking up on ammunition over the last two years. They can see the future clearly, just as we can. Prohibition, and their life’s work, is a failure.

    Protect & Serve (Themselves!)

    Well-liked Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

  • claygooding

    Time for some soothing music to send your legislators:

    http://tinyurl.com/c978dgc

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  • Duncan20903

    A country has finally defeated the importation of cannabis. Swedish police announce that Sweden has plenty o’ cannabis:

    Sweden ‘self-sufficient’ on marijuana: police
    Published: 12 Nov 12 09:45 CET

    Reports of home-grown marijuana in Sweden have quadrupled in the last decade, according to police, who claim there is now enough domestically-grown weed to supply the needs of Sweden’s pot-smokers.

    The Swedish National Bureau of Investigation (Rikskriminalpolisen) has said police currently receive more than 600 reports annually about illegal pot growing operations.

    Reports of home-grown marijuana in Sweden have quadrupled in the last decade, according to police, who claim there is now enough domestically-grown weed to supply the needs of Sweden’s pot-smokers.

    The Swedish National Bureau of Investigation (Rikskriminalpolisen) has said police currently receive more than 600 reports annually about illegal pot growing operations.
    /snip/

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    • stlgonzo

      Rikskriminalpolisen

      i don’t even want to try and pronounce that.

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    • Francis

      How is the U.S. doing in this regard? Have we successfully ended our dependence on foreign cannabis? Have we closed the “cannabis gap”? Do we need a public awareness campaign encouraging people to grow “victory gardens”?

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      • Chris

        Well, I have a card issued by my state that says I am allowed to grow and possess plants, but I’m not contributing. So sorry! Everyone else seems to be doing a great job around here however.

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      • claygooding

        I don’t have a card but I have reduced the amount I was buying by 70%,,only buying now when I want some variety in my tray or an accident interrupts supply.

        As noted in late Sept,the new crop is coming up through TX and so far very few seeds in any I have seen and you can tell the growers are trying to eradicate the males.

        And the price is remaining around $80 an ounce,,so any attempt to sell $12 a gram weed in Tx wouldn’t make enough taxes to pay the bureaucrats wages much less make the state any money.

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      • I have a card, have some beauties upstairs.

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  • Leonard Junior

    I think what’s really naive is the group of people who take this man seriously.

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  • Byddaf yn egluro:

    There was enough sun to cover my needs :-)

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  • n.t. greene

    Talk about desperately trying to rescue a metaphor, Gil.

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  • darkcycle

    Washington’s Governor to meet with the Feds over legalization. Here’s the link, but keep in mind, The P.I. is a local Hearst rag that cannot even get the status of the law right. Do not expect much.
    http://www.seattlepi.com/news/crime/article/Gov-Gregoire-meeting-with-feds-over-marijuana-law-4030756.php#src=fb

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    • I keep seeing that. Some people apparently can’t bring themselves to say the “L” word… heh. To them I can only say Tuff! get over it.

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  • Opiophiliac

    O/T I just watched the Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell on MSNBC. He did a segment on how following the vote in WA the prosecutors are dropping cases involving possession charges. I know other have posted articles covering this, my question is does anyone have an idea if this may also be applied retroactively to be already incarcerated, on probation or parole or if those with criminal records would get them expunged? Do you think this may impact other cases in states that are already polling in favor of legalization? I know the NJ weedman was aquitted via jury nullification.

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    • darkcycle

      Nope. Not the way we play here. I would venture that once sentenced, you’re f*cked. I would think anything else would be truly unexpected and exceptional.

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      • claygooding

        0ne remaining hope for people already convicted will probably be that they will be moved to the front of the line for any releases and their remaining sentences shortened as much as legally possible,,up to and including the Governor pardoning anyone in prison for possession of an ounce or less…

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  • strayan

    I don’t know if anyone outside Australia can view this, but Kerli’s address will be broadcast live on ABC24: http://www.abc.net.au/news/abcnews24/ at 1230hrs on Wed UTC+11

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  • claygooding

    Just in case you think we are the only angry people out there:

    Citizens from 15 states have filed petitions to secede from the United States

    http://tinyurl.com/bg25eef

    “”As of Saturday November 10, 2012, citizens from 15 States have petitioned the Obama Administration for withdrawal from the United States of America in order to create its own government.

    States following this action include: Louisiana, Texas, Montana, North Dakota, Indiana, Mississippi, Kentucky, North Carolina, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, New Jersey, Colorado, Oregon and New York. These States have requested that the Obama Administration grant a peaceful withdrawal from the United States.

    These citizen generated petitions were filed just days after the 2012 presidential election.””

    This should give Obama something to work on.

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    • Byddaf yn egluro:

      BBC World News:
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20301477

      “More than 100,000 Americans have petitioned the White House to allow their states to secede from the US, after President Barack Obama’s re-election.”

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      • Windy

        It’s almost 100,000 signatures in TX alone, currently 7 State’s petitions have reached the magic number of 25,000 which is supposed to trigger a response from the WH. Want to bet they get the same kind of response all those marijuana petitions and questions got?

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    • kaptinemo

      And these are the sentiments that I was warning about, the kind that could lead to a Constitutional Convention: the sense that the government no longer represents the people but the special interests…like the prohibitionists, who certainly qualify in that regard.

      If the Feds don’t back off on this, if they don’t relent, worse, if they attempt to negate the democratically-derived passage of re-legalized cannabis, and thus, negate democracy itself, they risk opening something vastly worse than Pandora’s Box.

      If the Feds respond in an overly aggressive way that rankles the sentiments of the fence-sitters on this issue, they may create a group of those who come to believe the only way for redress is that Constitutional Convention.

      I re-iterate: I DO NOT WANT TO SEE THAT. If you think things are bad now, watch that happen and all bets are off.

      Judge Brandaeis put it best: “The makers of the Constitution conferred, as against the government, the right to be let alone…the most comprehensive of rights and the right most valued by civilized men.” If anything is an affront to that right, it is prohibition.

      The Feds have forgotten that; they have become just what Brandeis was warning about when he wrote “The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in the insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well meaning but without understanding.” The men of DrugWar zeal have caused far more damage to our rights and liberties than any foreign invader could; they, in their mad zeal to ‘protect’ us, are fulfilling Lincoln’s dire prophecy about how this great nation would end.

      Does the government REALLY want that? We’ll see soon enough…

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      • claygooding

        Well said Kap,,and you know they fully realize that,,it is why the DOJ and DEA have been silent on this issue,,because they realize that their position is only tenable if the people support it.

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