Even if the government tryed to make it expensive…It’s not like corn where you need a whole field to create a personal supply.

The government will never be able to make it too expensive because it just grows too easily.

Although it would stop it being a gateway because the only reason it is a gateway is because most people take it for a ‘hit’ and once you have overcome the initial ‘hit’ of weed it starts becoming more a lifestyle or hobbie. Whereas it being illegal means most people get tired of that and want something bigger, or their dealer will offer something ‘better’ or and probbaly more expensive. But you cannot imagine a shop owner saying ‘you want a better hit?’ when you buy a joint at the newsagents!

At the end of the day though, if the government was in control of weed, it would shortlty get shit. It is worth more than Gold to the pound atm. The same amount you’d pay for an ounce of ganje can get you a ton of crops like corn for eg. Literally.

The government would make it fucking expensive and you’d have to pay a lot to get anything that isnt fucking weak!

I’d love to see those ‘Cutters Choice’ packets becoming ’stoners choice’ though XD

bless..

Although it would stop it being a gateway because the only reason it is a gateway is because most people take it for a ‘hit’ and once you have overcome the initial ‘hit’ of weed it starts becoming more a lifestyle or hobbie. Whereas it being illegal means most people get tired of that and want something bigger, or their dealer will offer something ‘better’ or and probbaly more expensive. But you cannot imagine a shop owner saying ‘you want a better hit?’ when you buy a joint at the newsagents!

At the end of the day though, if the government was in control of weed, it would shortlty get shit. It is worth more than Gold to the pound atm. The same amount you’d pay for an ounce of ganje can get you a ton of crops like corn for eg. Literally.

The government would make it fucking expensive and you’d have to pay a lot to get anything that isnt fucking weak!

I’d love to see those ‘Cutters Choice’ packets becoming ’stoners choice’ though XD

bless.

The following statement is completely illogical considering more than 90% of drug arrests occur at the state level.

“My point is that as long as pot is illegal under federal law, it’s status under state law is entirely irrelevant.”

How can you say fixing 90% of the problem is irrelevant?

The first and primary reason prohibition exists, wasteful and nonproductive is in the eye of the profiteer. A trillion wastefully spent arresting Ganja tokers – Is a billion made in taxable income. Everything else is gravy. The law provides the money. RxGanja and Hemp were not prohibited in 37, just taken out of the market place competition. The AMA was excluded from the decision, but at that time they were against it being totally banned. Same with Hemp, it was not worth the time cost and effort to obtain a stamp. But it was Nixon’s lies to exclude it with the CSA. For the same reason. Profits on the corporate synthetics. The religion is only a tool of the Fascists. Same as the media and “selected” politicians. You see it as you were taught in school. Its evil. Or as most atheist, afraid you might catch a spirit or something.

Ganja and Hemp were not taught therefore you assume its hype or just excuses to smoke dope without getting busted. I’ve had no problem in 40 years. Basic caution and having a job and my own place helps. I know good people growing pot and as long as the risk is there its not wrong for them to profit. They don’t hurt people. Same as the millions who shoot heroin and have a good time, or maintain their addiction without being a burden on society. Caused by prohibitions street dope, adulterations and the stupidest thing since white bread outlawing clean needle exchanges. As clinics can be brought into legitimacy treating junkies the same as diabetics. I’d predict the garbage dope would evaporate if good quality Pharmaceuticals were available. I’d stay with Ganja. I have access now and choose to abstain.

But the fact that you can’t make as many useful things with coca leaves as you can with hemp misses the point entirely.

I never said coca leaves, that is a pretty useful plant. Not as versatile as Hemp, but worthy of legitimizing.

Coca, Bolivia, and Law 1008

The Pope used to make coca wine. The “point” you’re repetitiously making, was dull last month. We get it, yes you are right its our sovereign right to tattoo our bodies and shoot as much dope as a syringe can hold. But without a dictator and total national socialism its a pipe dream and used by drug worriers to add to their gossip.

Of coarse we want Ganja legal for our own damn business. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t medicinal. I smoke several doobies a day for almost 40 years but that doesn’t mean the tensile strength of Hemp isn’t greater than trees. Or the cellulose from crude oil can’t be replaced by the cellulose from Hemp. Or the Pharmaceuticals, without the binders and fillers and bottles and boxes and laboratories and side effects selling more of the same. Ganja has no infrastructure. We can build one as the buyers clubs prove. But we can also grow it without any interference.

No profit, no tax. Therefore no reason not to outlaw it, if that much money is at stake. These are the people who sends kids to die in deserts for oil, would they lie? The only reason for the cold war or the Ganjawar or Colombia Iraq or funding Thailand’s murders is profit. By people who obviously don’t give a rats ass about caging Americans, terrorizing sick and elderly Americans. Profit and some sicko maniacal inbred dysfunction.

And who knows what amazing alternate uses for currently banned chemicals, and the banned plants that produce some of them, that we’d discover if we were free to study and tinker around with them.

But they’re not illegal dude. Opiates and Meth and Cocaine are still legal for research, has been, its spent. Heroin was legal, may still be in Europe. Only Ganja, RxGanja and Hemp are schedule#1 narcotic drugs. Crack, pcp embalming fluid or any of the physically damaging chemical poisons should be with education same as driving tests. But these poisons on the street are only prohibition drugs, do to availability, statistics they provide, used in lower income areas and cheap. A substitute for “recreation” including heroin or cocaine. Addiction is a red herring.

Coca Cola still grows coca leaves. Cops still pop white crosses on stake outs and the Military go go pills. Only Ganja and Hemp, with no victims, no hang overs. The least harmful substance in the entire Pharmacopeia is totally banned from even discussing it. Now thats some might fine Constitutional abuses. That has nothing to do with anything to save the kiddies. Thats total flim flam. And until we deal with this reality and get it out of the way. How can we take anything serious. If its all ulterior motives and say what you have to to sell the jalopy. Worthless spending of energy.

I’d suggest if we’re going to legalize only one type of drug, it should be opiates. Due to the drug war, millions of people are suffering from horrible chronic pain which they can’t get adequately treated due to overbearing C-II restrictions, DEA persecution of pain management doctors, and the resultant chilling effect that causes on physicians’ willingness to prescribe painkillers.

True, but not my patients. There are heavy DEA restrictions on Opiates and this was Henry Hyde and Nelson afraid of Kevorkian killing off old people. Teabogs bought it now I reckon its true, they let Veterans suffer needlessly. Some are Insurance restrictions and extras have to be bought out of pocket. But there are underground clinics, more professionals dealing with reality until the politics catch up. But you miss the point. The Ganjawar is also why they’re illegal. Its what pays the salaries and profits and without it, there is no war. You think they could muster a DEAth army to save junkies? No its Ganja that is evil to millions, and dangerous because its almost undetectable. That means it isn’t inebriating. Scam man, just a scam. Restrictions on doctors prescribing “legal” drugs is the responsibility of the AMA to protect them. They are in the same Fascist circles as the FDA and Ag Chemical corporations. Interchangeable. That I’d support changing back to checks and balances and stop the DEAth meddling.

The AMA today is an insurance scam running doctors out of business unless they pay out of their ass for malpractice insurance. Another small minority of abuse clustering everyone into the mix. Legitimate malpractice now gets by because its all done by lawyers. For profit medicine neglects the patients. Technically they don’t even need patients. They can treat numbers and get the same results, and profits. 40 years of Ganja I haven’t seen a doctor since they made house calls, Except for food poisoning once and a chiropractor after twisting a back muscle pipe fitting a boiler.

As a hospice and Neurological HHA 20 years I have spent more than a persons fair share of time in hospitals advocating for patients and with nurses and doctors discussing patients, Ganja and the system. But thats all separate or parallel to the fact that restrictions on legal drugs such as opiates is political within the industry, not the streets or “prohibition”. Pain meds aren’t banned. Pain meds are abused and can be dangerous. Doctor junkies over prescribing is true. Not enough to warrant suffering patients. But real shit, not made up hobgoblins as with Ganja. It shows the extent of integrity and ethics on the part of the medical governing body. Like the Ganjawar shows the creepiness of cops prisons and rehab drug worriers discarding Americans for job security. Internal fascism. But Ganja or Narcotic burlap, is fantasy. Until the simple logic is contemplated, and it won’t be in censored school books or on corporate media outlets. Then its a good cause far off in a distant galaxy where righteous people make the decisions.

Remove the bogus CSA classification of Ganja, RxGanja and Hemp are free by default. Without Ganja, RxGanja and Hemp the drug war can not sustain itself. Without the US there would be a steady collapse of prohibitions around the globe. Any other scenario it lingers on like decriminalization. Legalize opiates and the drug war still keeps the meat and potatoes to profit on. Legalize RxGanja or just Hemp and not much will change as time since prop 215 has also proven. Buyers clubs are convenient for republicans. Also expensive and the risk of entering your information in a data base is haunting citizens. The first thing the DEAth confiscate is the computers with client lists. Then the cash, then the plants. I wouldn’t be surprised if they made us wear pot leaves on our sleeves like previous stars of David.

Additionally, opium is the #1 cash crop for middle-eastern terrorists.

Some of the best Hash came from Afghanistan. Hell Ganja original came from their. Probably as Hemp until humans started gardening it raising the theca from the less protein separating the males from pollination. Farmers could grow Ganja and employ locals to make Hash too. China is a lesson in Opium. Nice dreams but if you hookah and fall off your donkey it ain’t the same as 60 miles an hour down the highway. Opium and Cocaine should remain the drug of Emperors. Or medicinal. Not caging people but not condoning it without education and proper environments. QA is essential and mostly done with inspection and quality raw materials. Hard on the streets with anything requiring an infrastructure. Stills or make shift labs can be harmful, and paraphernalia is cumbersome. Ganja’s a plant.

Unless maybe you think buying their crop or Monsanto over spraying it with Agent Green 5x Roundup, slightly less than Agent Orange they made in Nam. or anything that will intimidate the farmers as much as the Taliban. Been there done that… Bush’s Faustian Deal With the Taliban $43 mil for the opium crop in May 2001. Wonder what happened to that money? And the US doesn’t get its heroin supply from Afghani’s, they supply Europe. We use China and Mexico some South American. The only thing we need in Afghanistan is the Unocal pipeline to “take care of surrounding countries oil reserves”.

Legalizing all mu-agonists would instantly deprive these terrorists of billions of dollars. Opium grows in places other than Afghanistan.

I only recognize USA! Qaeda. These other “terrorists” are like the commies I never saw either. But creating a demand by legalizing would have to be everywhere, or very bloody. It would legalize dangerous substances without an educational system, still leaving a black market for kids and countries taught to well by DEAth Merchants wanting the prohibition for profits and slave labor.

Ganja and Hemp have no overdoses to worry about. Education is minimal for usage. Environment the same, not much paraphernalia let alone the infrastructure and profits of the infrastructure. So “legalizing” opiates that are already legal for doctors? Just to ward off “terrorists” that the same Ganjawar mongers waging a war on Americans say are terrorists. Oh ya that 911 thing with a million unanswered questions, Juries still out on that one. I think Monsanto and Cliarence Thomas are greater terrorists than Ben Laden. The Boosh Klan, bastard son Klintoon and Cheney are worse than Hitler and Pol Pot and Lenin. Thats just my opinion on draconian policy and fascist actions they’ve committed. Not ad hominem on GOPerverts.

Far more people need painkillers than glaucoma medicine.

Of all the medications, unless its multiple symptoms I’d probably advise the Pharmaceuticals for Glaucoma. If you’re in a friendly user environment with adequate cloning for your particular needs availability, then go for it. But 100’s of “treatments” and preventives is why its illegal. You don’t get it. The Ganjawar is what is being sold for profits. The money to conduct the war comes from taxes spent by corporate lobbyists that aren’t even concerned with the safety of users. Just profit. Like I said, More victims is better propaganda. Ganja has none but it is the infrastructure of the Drug War and without it the war collapses. So yes legalize heroin for medicine and get the DEAth the fuck out of medicine and have the balls of Oregon and let people decide on assisted termination. But no one can justify in any moral sense of the word a cop organization preventing doctors from prescribing pain relief. Thats Nazism, beyond Fascism. Thats also not typical street drugs.

Not saying marijuana is not a legitimate medication, but insofar as you’re making the case that marijuana is the drug most worthy of being decriminalized, I disagree. I’d start with opiates/opioids.http://www.drugwarrant.com/2009/11/legalized/comment-page-1/#comment-3675

Granny Storm Crow’s MMJ List

Medicinal Opiates are legal dude. Just not heroin or raw poppy juice. Bayer aspirin with heroin was as common as Turkish Hash Parlors at the Worlds Fair. The heroin proved to be harmful if taking to much, the Ganja was found to be harmful to Rockefeller Dupont and Mellon profits. Compared to Ganja nothing compares. Nothing with its virtues is as prohibited either. Maybe Nukes but that ain’t getting high, its getting cancer. Think the private market should sell nuke powered cars? Almost afraid of the answer.

I’d suggest if we’re going to legalize only one type of drug, it should be opiates. Due to the drug war, millions of people are suffering from horrible chronic pain which they can’t get adequately treated due to overbearing C-II restrictions, DEA persecution of pain management doctors, and the resultant chilling effect that causes on physicians’ willingness to prescribe painkillers. Additionally, opium is the #1 cash crop for middle-eastern terrorists. Legalizing all mu-agonists would instantly deprive these terrorists of billions of dollars. Opium grows in places other than Afghanistan.

Far more people need painkillers than glaucoma medicine. Not saying marijuana is not a legitimate medication, but insofar as you’re making the case that marijuana is the drug most worthy of being decriminalized, I disagree. I’d start with opiates/opioids.

“Federal law always trumps state law . . . . State law always trumps city ordinances.”

This is simply not true.

I’d suggest reading the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution. I agree that the Federal government cannot order lower level governments to do things (though they can coerce them with conditional funding). That’s not what we’re talking about here. Yes, the states don’t need to have their own controlled substances acts and the federal government can’t force states to control substances. But as long as it is illegal under federal law, it doesn’t make one bit of difference that it’s not/no longer illegal under state or local law. In fact, you can be prosecuted TWICE for the same crime – once by the state for possessing a controlled substance, and then again by the federal government for the same act. It doesn’t even violate double jeopardy, if you can believe that.

My point is not that the federal government can force the states to make pot illegal. It can’t. My point is that as long as pot is illegal under federal law, it’s status under state law is entirely irrelevant. If you possess it, you commit a (federal) crime. If it makes you feel better that you’ve committed only one crime instead of two (or three – local city crimes), you’re optimism is extremely misplaced.

And yes, I do believe the federal government will collapse within the next 2 years or so. This is not based on some Mayan 2012 Nostradamus astrological crap, it just seems self evident to me that our system has become too corrupt, with too many conflicts of interest to survive. It’s going downhill fast. It will not be a violent collapse – I’m not saying there will be riots and mobs smashing and blowing up things. one day, the federal government will simply close down due to lack of money, and it won’t reopen again. Ever.

We’ll just have to disagree on whether my pessimism is irrational. I think we simply disagree on the degree of my pessimism, not whether it’s rational or not.

Kaptinemo: fair enough, I’m glad to hear you’re not one of the “pot only” people. I didn’t think you were, but it wasn’t entirely clear.

Hemp and RxGanja are part of the selling points. Totally pious attitudes of purity, they should be legal because its your Constitutional right to ingest what ever you want. That is true. But do you think the censored educational system will level the playing field and teach both sides? No, it would jeopardize their profit margin. So you’re dealing with totally illiterates concerning drugs. At best maybe a toke or two of a doobie then felt funny. Many of the people never bought a bag in their lives. Always bumming joints and hanging in joint circles.

Skin color doesn’t mean a damn thing either and look how long that took. Women couldn’t vote. I have seen places where certain colors couldn’t enter, or sit or enjoy the festivities. Not that long ago and not eliminated by a long shot. Yankees had just as much segregation as the south, even more after the civil rights act. Simply by tying up the real estate market and legislating only residents can go to the schools or swimming pools. Still lots of imperfections in the Ganjawar.

It is the Ganjawar because there is no reason it should be restricted. No victims. Most arrests are for pot. Most junkies become plea bargain snitches. Hemp is the majority of “marijuana” eradications. For a reason, bullshit. Gossip to keep the debate off the table. Plus the simple fact that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. How many crackheads are trying to legalize?

Come on dude. Like blaming the poor for taxes when most is wasted on wars and corporate subsidies and bailouts. The poor spend the money locally, the fascist take it away. The workers pay for it. Its a corporate war and until you want to stop investing in fossil fools, trees, Pharmaceuticals, cotton, pesticides, plastic, paper, wood and 25,000 other products in 1937. All in competition with Rockefeller Oil, Dupont plastic fiber and Hearst paper mills. The booze distributors produced the “documentary” Reefer Madness. Plus the infrastructure not needed on Ganja. Its the money, nothing but the money.

What can you make with a pile of heroin? Hemp is versatile enough to provide alternatives to many status weird choices. Plus as a Naturalist I can’t advocate fake entheogens. White Powders suck for a reason, not calvina gossip. Medicinally for pain, heroin is 80+ times faster relief than morphine. My guess is heroin is euphoric, while morphine is a depressant. Or deterrent to using it in the drug thugs eyes. I suspect the church didn’t like sick and dying people smiling or laughing while they were sick and dying. Sent the wrong message to the kids. They might Gateway if they thought being sick was fun.

The Woman’s Christian Temperance League was planning “strategery” against the heathen rum dabblers while sipping tea laced with Laudanum, an Opiate. Look at how many do speed and then rant and rave about meth. Giving it to kids for being hyper? Look at the food pyramid, totally corporately sponsored. Creating obesity for the meat and grain and sugar mills. They shelved cannabis tumor research for christ sakes.

They shelved solar panels too. It took Ralph Nader many hours to get cars fairly safe. It makes no sense to protest clean air and water.Yet corporate lapdogs can’t stand it for some reason Libertarians don’t see the Liberty in being Healthy. Or the Constitutional right of Life is understood, but not the prerequisites like shelter, food, clothing and transportation. All provided by Ganja and Hemp.

This is why the Ganjawar product is sold. Heroin and the other drugs with victims provide statistics and snitches. Statistics that go across the board including Ganja in the array or hobgoblins, religiosity and corporate sponsorship. When you state the obvious and neglect the who, what, when, where, and especially why. Its like hearing the drug worriers spew the same old boring crap.

Yes in Utopia there is no Band Aids or Factories making them and stores selling them. They are unnecessary. Corporations don’t have citizens rights in Utopia, to lobby and coerce towns. Nothing treating misery would be for profit. Salaries but even the thought of getting wealthy on the misery, leads to maintaining the misery. Even creating misery just to treat. That is the Ganjawar, the cornerstone of the Drug War.

Follow the Money and get real. You can’t fix 200 years of careful fuckuping over night. But reality is the only place to start. We still need band aids and taxes need to be spent on them. But prevention and cures would lower the taxes, but also the profits. Do we want our taxes spent on us or International Corporations, also sheltering their responsibility in off shore accounts and anti drug propaganda and Ganjawar investments. That money goes away and doesn’t circulate in the community. Ideals are great destinations but terrible roadmaps. The Libertarians and the Greens need to get their shit together and merge. Now at best a third party only sways one of the two NeoCoservokrats.

So enough about white powders with no value outside of getting loaded. Ganja is the drug war. Its the only thing they really want to keep out. I mean really, do you know any republicans that care about junkies? They want them to spread the “fag” disease. Thats why Boosh Sr stopped the IND schwag program. Klintoon pushed thalidomide as an appetite stimulant over Ganja. I find it naive to even think these moneysluts care about anything but profits. What if these nazi offspring still think of Americans as the enemy? But instead of fighting them, they just poison the food and sell them drugs to treat it.

Deterring natural alternatives like Rockefeller producing the booze prohibition long enough to rid the farmers of their ethanol stills. All that trouble its not a wonder they wouldn’t let Hemp take their profits. Although they never banned Hemp or RxGanja in 1937. Boggs and Nixon finally outlawed it but no one ever started manufacturing after 1937 except for the brief Hemp for Victory campaign when they lost Manilla to Japan. Then outlaw homegrown free herbal relief. Sure doesn’t sound like something a Patriot would do.

Ganja/Hemp

Shadow of the Swastika Elkhorn Manifesto

Wall street’s Spontaneous Abortionists

Drugwar Lies Linked to Schizophrenia

The Ganjawar Fraud

For, as one State begins to reap those rewards, and citizens of other States seek to avail themselves of the opportunity to enjoy cannabis in peace without penalty by traveling (and possibly ‘emigrating’) there, spending their money there and enriching CO’s tax coffers, it will become very clear that a State that does not re-legalize cannabis will quickly descend into penury. And money has always spoken louder than ideology; it’s ‘the American Way’, unfortunately.

The wall of the dike has been breached, and no amount of DrugWarrior ‘Little Dutch Boys’ can stop what’s coming. They only have so many thumbs, and they’re facing the economic equivalent of the Johnstown Flood. and they have as much chance of stopping this now as the poor citizens of Johnstown did their own inundation.