Until the truth is on the table it will continue. Both sides profiting while the middle pays. Its a fraud dude, studio wrestling. The truth would have never scheduled Ganja as a narcotic or a schedule more than aspirin. Hemp isn’t even logical enough to take it serious, yet its also a schedule#1 narcotic and the brainiacs running the asylum keep it going.

We’re talking people farming. Why shoot the enemy when you can profit on their “treatment”? Military, Prisons and Poisons for profit oh my. No one removing the bogus laws inject anything hypothetical about kids. Kids shouldn’t use Ganja outside of medicinal, but not because it will physically harm them. Its a bullshit world, and the crap excuse for school teaches myth’s and pre job training skills. Ganja gnaws at a person to find the path of least resistance, avoid the hassles. Tell the truth, not necessarily out of some righteousness, out of laziness. Not having to remember so much and a tad of paranoia in getting caught.

So it seems its almost an urge to question falsehoods rather than go along with them. Lies have no atomic base. You can’t take them seriously. Building theories on them as with the Ganjawar, is for an agenda that doesn’t include the welfare of the people. Ganja is not good for obedience, following orders or taking tests. Tests that determine levels in the future work place. Trouble makers will be placed in worse positions. So to avoid the long term crap, kids should abstain until they get the diploma, and then a gig without piz quizzes, then kick back and toke all you want.

Truth will set us free, if that’s what we really want. If an ignorant drug worrier lies, call them on it. There are literally message boards in every city in the country and major cities on the planet. Those with vested ignorance will show their hands, then hit em with the reality. You won’t win them over, but the audience can then see for themselves. Again those depending on the drug war to feed their families can’t afford to stigmatize themselves in this real reinforced prejudice against Ganja users and reformers.

The kids sent to the lie in Iraq deserve the truth. Same with the inner city kids living in combat zones or the sports nuts killing them over a game. Car wrecks and drinking binges kill kids, Kids get Ganja easier than booze or Pharmaceuticals except those getting it from perverts or parents not paying attention. Ganja in a legitimate market would deter kids use the same as booze, not eliminate it but removing prohibition incentives would bring usage down.

But no where does not discussing it and standing up for the reality of Ganja truth come to play. When worriers spout hobgoblins, embarrass them, don’t appease them. Peace is never becoming a doormat as the democritters never seem to understand. We don need no stinkin strawman, we have hard science and real benefactors, products and test results dating back 5000 years. They have a lie, agreed upon. A big fat ole halluci-nation of sheep beckoning to the call of USAl Qaeda traitors.

Starving Babies and Illegal Food

Big Bucks in forced Faith-Based Rehabilitation
Faith-based groups that provide child care or operate homes for troubled youths can opt out of state inspections and choose to be regulated by a Christian child care agency approved by the state.

“To secure ourselves against defeat
lies in our own hands.
But the opportunity of defeating the enemy
is provided by the enemy himself.
If you know the enemy, and know yourself,
you need not fear the outcome of a hundred battles.
If you know yourself, but not the enemy,
for every victory gained you will also suffer defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself,
you will succumb in every battle.”
~ The Art of War – Sun Tzu

Erowid

Schaffer Library of Drug Policy

World’s Largest Online Library of Drug Policy

“The Emperor Wears No Clothes”

Granny Storm Crow’s list-2009

Dude there ain’t nothing a drug worrier liar can spew that can’t be countered with common sense reality in the above or hundreds of other websites.

In a way, being allowed to invoke “the children” is in itself a form of censorship. It instantly stifles the free flow of ideas, it causes market failure in the marketplace of ideas, and it causes all reasonable debates to instantly degrade into a vaginal-oriented contest to appeal to the maternal instinct.

False concepts (like marijuana being dangerous and addictive) cannot be discussed in a factual, logical way because opponents will cite the false concept as a danger to The Children, and the debate is over – you can try all you want to show with a truckload of data that the false concept is false, but it doesn’t make a difference. People have been reminded that there’s a danger to The Children (real or imagined), and they’d rather be factually wrong than risk dead children. That’s just it – people don’t care about truth, facts, logic, or plain old common sense if their children are threatened. And that’s what invoking “the children” is – an indirect threat that you side with my position or your children will be harmed.

As long as people are allowed to invoke the children, no meaningful debate is possible. So while I hate censorship, this is one situation where censorship is absolutely necessary. People who invoke the children in a debate need to be punished… we need to get Islamic on their asses and chop off their hand or something.

As for children dealing with feelings and emotions, why are so many of them being put on prescription drugs for ADD and ADHD? I think we are in for some troubling times ahead with people who haven’t dealt with serious issues in their youths and their parents just pass the buck. Cannabis should be the least of their worries.

When the wheels fall off of peoples’ lives and they go ballistic the bystanders will say, “We don’t know what happened, all of a sudden he just exploded with rage and started killing people.” I’m afraid we are going to get more of that as those pill zombies reach adulthood.

How many bong hits does it take to become a violent sociopath, I don’t know. I have never met a cannabis only user who was the least bit violent unless they were pushed pretty hard.

I do know that Kleibold and Harris were on some pretty serious legal pharmaceuticals before they did Columbine. I don’t think they smoked much cannabis.

@ BruceM, Invoking “the children” is used to justify any and all hypocrisy, inconsistency, and gross stupidity.

I wish everyone who says the word “children” in a debate or in general public discourse would get a strong electric shock. We need to condition people not to invoke “the children”.

I agree with the gist of what you say, but the more we can scrutinize their arguments and expose each and every one of them, the sooner we can end this madness. If we overlook their claims, no matter how outrageous, we’re almost being like them in trying not to address the “best” arguments of the “other side.” I am not saying we need to address their claims as they stand, since much of them stand on lies and false assumptions, but we need to point that out. So here’s my little effort.

The main problem is not “the message it sends the children” it’s the wrong assumptions of those who say that.

The main problem with those who say that is they don’t understand children’s cognitive development. Legalizing and regulating drugs is a total non-issue for children. Children are focused on things that are important to children: figuring out language to better communicate, learning how to be friends, the advantages of honesty, coping with feelings and emotions, realizing there are other people in the world with varying perspectives, that the world is larger than the town one lives in, that vegetables are good for you, etc… Children will not get any message about legalizing/regulation because they are instinctively focused on other things.

(I am not saying drugs are 100% irrelevant or not a part of kids lives, certainly addicted/problem users who are in their lives are an influence of some sort. But 1) legalizing/regulating does not send ANY message to children, it’s an abstract concept, no matter how concrete and obvious it is to those of us with a few decades under our belts 2) legalizing/regulating can only be an open door to help the adults in their lives who have problems. 3) kids who are around users with problems are already “getting the message” that the adult has a problem; and thus I would point back to #2 in order to address the problem.)

However, there is an age when this issue is relevant. And if people called any of them “children” to their faces, they will be very displeased. That age varies based on one’s cognitive development and one’s environment, but for the sake of simplicity, let’s just call them “teens.”

But I still contend that legalization/regulation still does not hold the same meaning to them as it does to the odious adults who harp on this. I would also vehemently admonish those who continue the jargon of “the message it sends” and inform them that “teens” DO NOT need to be “sent messages,” teens are perfectly capable of being spoken to plainly! Not speaking to them plainly about these issues, but instead trying to “send them messages” is a serious disservice!

Thus you can see I totally agree with the first paragraph of yours which I quoted. Addressing the latter paragraph, we will condition them by letting them know we have an answer for this fear of theirs that clouds their minds and have addressed it.

“Rauschgiftbekaempfung”
Meant literally “The combatting of drugs”
It was the unholy alliance of Nazi eugenics and american prohibition.

Bruce, truth… not more censorship.
If its a propaganda lie, then bust the liars.
Anything in the realm of physical science can be proven.
If it has no tangible evidence, especially when it’s a vested ignorance. Then bust their sorry traitorous butts. Especially those trusted with the publics interest. But as long as we let money and profit guide motive. It can’t change in spite of individuals attempts. Its like telling people not to drink water. If its legal or superficially nobel and you get paid for it, Hell slavery lasted 500 years.

“If a ruler
“Hearkens” to Lies
all his servants are wicked.”
– Prov:29:12

If children are being harmed, censorship won’t help. Actually censorship is in full bloom concerning harming the kids. From Wall Mart St. sweatshops to guidance counselor medicating. Juvi prison sodomy deterrents and state foster care and religious rehabs. Not to mention the poisons sprayed over their farms or over-spraying coca crops and ditchweed. Food loaded with man made preservatives and adulterations while banning a balanced nutrition. The same as natural tobacco scapegoated for the harm caused by manufactured cigarettes. Fossil fools spewing asthma to kids and traffic jams breathing toxins, while OPECkers profit filling up more. Sometimes it is for the kids and it ain’t hard to tell. Follow the money.

Truth

Pro Life? Not even anti abortionists…
The Florida Department of Agriculture has joined health officials in investigating three cases of birth defects in children of Immokalee farmworkers. While the state must help determine what caused the terrible deformities, it’s difficult to have confidence in an agency that has failed its obligation to effectively monitor pesticide use in the first place. NOT on Hemp or organic Ganja. Another victim of Calvina and Drug Czar lies…

Jeffrey’s Journey chronicles the success of Jeffrey’s treatment, as well as the family’s court battle defending their son’s right to unconventional medicine.

Nixon Lie Keeps on Killing

“Any change is resisted
because bureaucrats have a vested interest
in the chaos in which they exist.”
- Richard Milhouse Nixon

Thanks for your insightful and articulate response. I have never heard of your particular take on the Republicans, but it seems to describe their MO. I will keep it in mind while debating Republicans, it should prove to be useful.

Invoking “the children” is used to justify any and all hypocrisy, inconsistency, and gross stupidity.

I wish everyone who says the word “children” in a debate or in general public discourse would get a strong electric shock. We need to condition people not to invoke “the children”.

The three “legs of the stool” supporting the Republican party are an uneasy alliance. Basically, they are God, War, and Money. They can all tolerate each other, but they are also in tension. For example, if you are in the Republican party for God, you may also like War and Money, but they are not what drives you and you will sacrifice them to advance your God faction.

Recently, the Republican party collapsed under the weight of years of rule and the inevitable corruptions that follow. It seemed to me that War was in the driver’s seat, God was struggling with the wheel, and Money was in the back seat (It usually is). Money faction people fled to the Libertarians or just stayed home in disgust.

This is the time in the Republican life cycle where War and God apologize to Money for mistreating it so badly when they were in power, and swear eternal friendship until the next successful election whereupon Money winds up in the back seat again. This is why Money faction Republicans tend to join the Libertarians, like the judge you mentioned in your previous post. I figure he was Money because War never joins the Libertarians, and God only rarely.

There is a fourth faction that explains the rest of Republican behavior. This general Unprincipled faction is the one you hear from most of the time, especially after long periods of unbroken Republican rule. This is where your Glenn Beck and Sean Hannitys come in. These folks love power for its own sake, and will mouth whatever platitudes seem to do the trick, like claiming to be libertarians when in fact they are fascists, or claiming to love Jesus when they could care less about religion.

The Unprincipled faction is usually in charge, and the Democratic party has a wing of the Unprincipled faction that appears to be in opposition to the Republican Unprincipleds, but is in fact allied to them. These amorphous factions include:

Big Labor Unions
many (but not all) Wall Street investment houses
many corporations and lobbyist organizations
Major news organizations
Banks that are too big to fail
Professional organizations (a.k.a. “guilds”) like the AMA
Trial Lawyers

And a host of other villains too petty and numerous to list.

I also think about ‘psyops’ using the scorched earth policy of language denial and semantic infiltration.

When I ran for office in 2000 I met an elderly gentleman who happened to be a judge who was also running for his district’s seat in the Colorado House, he was a Republican and he changed to Libertarian. As staunch a conservative as one could ever meet.

The one reason he changed parties was the take over of the Republican Party by the Neocons and the Fundimentalist Christians. He was disgusted with the whole neocon agenda and embraced the Libertarian idealogy and platform as easily as one puts on an old comfortable pair of shoes. He was a true Goldwater conservative and his party had lost its way. He was one of the most active and enthusiastic campaigners of that cycle.

Now we have the likes of Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity claiming Libertarian creds. This is almost as embarrassing as when Howard Stern ran for Governor in New York.

We are what we have done not what we say we’re going to do or by having membership in some political club. Ones actions speak louder than words. Neo Cons and Neo Libs are fascists. Corporatists in partnership with government, including the largest corporation, the church. Military Pharmaceutical or Prison Industries. No bid contracts, pisstastes, prohibitions and monopolies. Not a democracy. It matters not who you vote for, what matters is who counts the votes.